Its all a fucking myth!

[SinisterKid]

I have official diagnosis of severe depression and anxiety. OK, thnx doc, appreciate it. Now I know that, we can fix it right? Well, err, no, because it transpires that what they told me is a lie, a fabrication, not based in any fact, past, present or future.

I have had physical disability for 11yrs now. Its there, for everyone to see. Its not something I can hide and pretend doesn't exist. Its irrefutable, its a fact, as clear as the nose on my face, or yours for that matter. But there is nothing can be done about said disability because it stems from brain trauma and that dear folks, they cant treat.

Before that moment in time 11yrs ago, I did not believe in stress, anxiety, depression or any other so called Mental Health issue. It was all in the mind and the mind could conquer anything if you only applied it correctly. I was physically fit and active. I had stamina to burn. Sleep was for dead people.

So fast forward and to accompany the physical disability, slow decline into mental disability came about, unbeknown to me as I did not believe in such crap. After my first suicidal episode, thats when the diagnosis was made about my mental ILL health. So what could be done about it? Well, because the said depression and anxiety was caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, we could take some pills that would correct that and make me feel better. FUCKING MYTH!

After writing something on this very forum, and someone pointing out that chemical imbalance is not measurable, I did some reading, well, a lot of reading. And yes, its true, there is no way to measure the alleged imbalances that supposedly occur in our brains due to mental illness. They are in a state of flux, constantly, so any attempt to measure them is always going to be inaccurate because of such flux. So why tell me this in the first place I ask? The answer is, I have absolutely no idea. There is not one shred of medical evidence to support such a claim. They know what these chemicals are, they know what they do and dont do, but they dont know how much or how little of them we each possess. So why throw medication at something you dont even know exists? Again, I have absolutely no idea. If, what they told me were true, why the flying fuck, 3 yrs down the road I am in a worse state than I was at the point of diagnosis?

There is, without doubt, a genetic misdemeanour in our family. My mother, uncle, sister and myself have all been, at some point or other, depressed to differing degrees. We also suspect, that if it were looked at today, my Grandma was also a depressive at points in her life. So that would explain something. There are without doubt environmental issues that contribute to my depression and anxiety. Disability being one of them. Lack of money, another. Lack of friendship. Lack of purpose. All contributing factors that no amount of medication can fix.

During the diagnosis period, therapy, group and otherwise, was helpful. Once that stopped, the slow descent back to my own personal void began. No amount of pills have been able to prevent it. But what I never got was convinced that I had the abilities to stop that descent or the tools. I am overly critical of myself. Can medication stop that? The medication to control heart rate and BP when in anxiety mode works, but it doesn't prevent my mind going into overdrive and over thinking the ins and outs of a fart.

So my conclusion is. I have been lied to and probably so have you. Medication is about as much use as a sore arse in treating matters of mental health. The stories you and I both read about anti psychotics having the reverse effect are all probably true. But why lie? thats the part I dont get and the part that really boils my piss.

 

[Shamana]

I have official diagnosis of severe depression and anxiety. OK, thnx doc, appreciate it. Now I know that, we can fix it right? Well, err, no, because it transpires that what they told me is a lie, a fabrication, not based in any fact, past, present or future.

I have had physical disability for 11yrs now. Its there, for everyone to see. Its not something I can hide and pretend doesn't exist. Its irrefutable, its a fact, as clear as the nose on my face, or yours for that matter. But there is nothing can be done about said disability because it stems from brain trauma and that dear folks, they cant treat.

Before that moment in time 11yrs ago, I did not believe in stress, anxiety, depression or any other so called Mental Health issue. It was all in the mind and the mind could conquer anything if you only applied it correctly. I was physically fit and active. I had stamina to burn. Sleep was for dead people.

So fast forward and to accompany the physical disability, slow decline into mental disability came about, unbeknown to me as I did not believe in such crap. After my first suicidal episode, thats when the diagnosis was made about my mental ILL health. So what could be done about it? Well, because the said depression and anxiety was caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, we could take some pills that would correct that and make me feel better. FUCKING MYTH!

After writing something on this very forum, and someone pointing out that chemical imbalance is not measurable, I did some reading, well, a lot of reading. And yes, its true, there is no way to measure the alleged imbalances that supposedly occur in our brains due to mental illness. They are in a state of flux, constantly, so any attempt to measure them is always going to be inaccurate because of such flux. So why tell me this in the first place I ask? The answer is, I have absolutely no idea. There is not one shred of medical evidence to support such a claim. They know what these chemicals are, they know what they do and dont do, but they dont know how much or how little of them we each possess. So why throw medication at something you dont even know exists? Again, I have absolutely no idea. If, what they told me were true, why the flying fuck, 3 yrs down the road I am in a worse state than I was at the point of diagnosis?

There is, without doubt, a genetic misdemeanour in our family. My mother, uncle, sister and myself have all been, at some point or other, depressed to differing degrees. We also suspect, that if it were looked at today, my Grandma was also a depressive at points in her life. So that would explain something. There are without doubt environmental issues that contribute to my depression and anxiety. Disability being one of them. Lack of money, another. Lack of friendship. Lack of purpose. All contributing factors that no amount of medication can fix.

During the diagnosis period, therapy, group and otherwise, was helpful. Once that stopped, the slow descent back to my own personal void began. No amount of pills have been able to prevent it. But what I never got was convinced that I had the abilities to stop that descent or the tools. I am overly critical of myself. Can medication stop that? The medication to control heart rate and BP when in anxiety mode works, but it doesn't prevent my mind going into overdrive and over thinking the ins and outs of a fart.

So my conclusion is. I have been lied to and probably so have you. Medication is about as much use as a sore arse in treating matters of mental health. The stories you and I both read about anti psychotics having the reverse effect are all probably true. But why lie? thats the part I dont get and the part that really boils my piss.

I'd say the short answer is that it makes big pharma billions and billions of dollars when mentally ill or vulnerable peole believe they have a chemical imbalance and thus will need medication for life.

Also psychiatrists have way more faith in medications than unbiased studies. Psychiatrists believe mainly that their job is prescribing pills and pills are the answer. If they read the cutting edge science out there that proves that most psyc drugs end up creating at least as many problems as they solve their whole profession would be scientifically, morally and finacially bankrupt. So psychiatrists have a huge interest in buying into drug therapy and the chemical imbalance myth despite their has been no test whatsover for 60 years that at the very least points toward that.

I'd say for myself that psyc drugs have damaged way more than they have bennefitted me, like chemically castrating and lobotomizing me, but there are always some succes stories out. In general in m 14 year experience as a psyc drug user i'd say that most people I have met who get geniuenly better(good health, good relationships, career) etc are mainly people who have avoided drugs while most people I know who went the drug route are stuck in the visicious spiral.

This is not to demonize drugs, it's just that when you look at the big picture in both personal experience and non-biased neutral research the science and results of drug therapy is really really uimpressive.

 

[cornflowerblue]

I have official diagnosis of severe depression and anxiety. OK, thnx doc, appreciate it. Now I know that, we can fix it right? Well, err, no, because it transpires that what they told me is a lie, a fabrication, not based in any fact, past, present or future.

I have had physical disability for 11yrs now. Its there, for everyone to see. Its not something I can hide and pretend doesn't exist. Its irrefutable, its a fact, as clear as the nose on my face, or yours for that matter. But there is nothing can be done about said disability because it stems from brain trauma and that dear folks, they cant treat.

Before that moment in time 11yrs ago, I did not believe in stress, anxiety, depression or any other so called Mental Health issue. It was all in the mind and the mind could conquer anything if you only applied it correctly. I was physically fit and active. I had stamina to burn. Sleep was for dead people.

So fast forward and to accompany the physical disability, slow decline into mental disability came about, unbeknown to me as I did not believe in such crap. After my first suicidal episode, thats when the diagnosis was made about my mental ILL health. So what could be done about it? Well, because the said depression and anxiety was caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, we could take some pills that would correct that and make me feel better. FUCKING MYTH!

After writing something on this very forum, and someone pointing out that chemical imbalance is not measurable, I did some reading, well, a lot of reading. And yes, its true, there is no way to measure the alleged imbalances that supposedly occur in our brains due to mental illness. They are in a state of flux, constantly, so any attempt to measure them is always going to be inaccurate because of such flux. So why tell me this in the first place I ask? The answer is, I have absolutely no idea. There is not one shred of medical evidence to support such a claim. They know what these chemicals are, they know what they do and dont do, but they dont know how much or how little of them we each possess. So why throw medication at something you dont even know exists? Again, I have absolutely no idea. If, what they told me were true, why the flying fuck, 3 yrs down the road I am in a worse state than I was at the point of diagnosis?

There is, without doubt, a genetic misdemeanour in our family. My mother, uncle, sister and myself have all been, at some point or other, depressed to differing degrees. We also suspect, that if it were looked at today, my Grandma was also a depressive at points in her life. So that would explain something. There are without doubt environmental issues that contribute to my depression and anxiety. Disability being one of them. Lack of money, another. Lack of friendship. Lack of purpose. All contributing factors that no amount of medication can fix.

During the diagnosis period, therapy, group and otherwise, was helpful. Once that stopped, the slow descent back to my own personal void began. No amount of pills have been able to prevent it. But what I never got was convinced that I had the abilities to stop that descent or the tools. I am overly critical of myself. Can medication stop that? The medication to control heart rate and BP when in anxiety mode works, but it doesn't prevent my mind going into overdrive and over thinking the ins and outs of a fart.

So my conclusion is. I have been lied to and probably so have you. Medication is about as much use as a sore arse in treating matters of mental health. The stories you and I both read about anti psychotics having the reverse effect are all probably true. But why lie? thats the part I dont get and the part that really boils my piss.

The medical community never thought it was a "chemical imbalance". That came from media and from doctors trying to explain meds in layman terms and doing a bad job.

 

[Shamana]

The medical community never thought it was a "chemical imbalance". That came from media and from doctors trying to explain meds in layman terms and doing a bad job.

The medical community 100% believes this. I've countless times debated with GP's, Psychiatrists, Psyc nurses and Psychologists. They all believe in the monoamine hypothesis yet whenever I ask them to present me with a scientific study that proves this they always come up short and just said they have read it in some psychiatry book somewhere.

Here in Denmark at least the professionals geniuenly believe that it's proven that depression is caused by low serotonin, but when you ask for proof it never comes.
Also apart from the fact that it's proven that AD's increase suicide risk in people under 25 years, it also now proven that they increase the suicide risk in Adults despite my Psychiatrist claiming that they are protective against suicide.

New study: antidepressants significantly raise the risk of suicide in the treatment of depression for adults -

Adults who start treatment with antidepressants for depression are 2.5 times more likely to attempt suicide when compared to placebo, according to new research published today in the journal Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics. The study found that approximately 1 in every 200 people who start...

cepuk.org

 

[cornflowerblue]

The medical community 100% believes this. I've countless times debated with GP's, Psychiatrists, Psyc nurses and Psychologists. They all believe in the monoamine hypothesis yet whenever I ask them to present me with a scientific study that proves this they always come up short and just said they have read it in some psychiatry book somewhere.

Here in Denmark at least the professionals geniuenly believe that it's proven that depression is caused by low serotonin, but when you ask for proof it never comes.
Also apart from the fact that it's proven that AD's increase suicide risk in people under 25 years, it also now proven that they increase the suicide risk in Adults despite my Psychiatrist claiming that they are protective against suicide.

New study: antidepressants significantly raise the risk of suicide in the treatment of depression for adults -

Adults who start treatment with antidepressants for depression are 2.5 times more likely to attempt suicide when compared to placebo, according to new research published today in the journal Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics. The study found that approximately 1 in every 200 people who start...

cepuk.org

It might be a different view in the US, then. I've seen the research about increased suicide risk, the actual studies don't always match the media summaries. As always, the media sensationalizes and misrepresents facts because the media authors don't actually understand the science. The increase does exist but it's a lot more complex than just saying antidepressants are bad and will make most people want to die. What I'd love to see is research on the outcomes for the large number of people who take SSRIs and SNRIs for reasons other than depression, and for the media to stop acting like SSRI/SNRI encompasses all classes of antidepressant.

 

[Shamana]

It might be a different view in the US, then. I've seen the research about increased suicide risk, the actual studies don't always match the media summaries. As always, the media sensationalizes and misrepresents facts because the media authors don't actually understand the science. The increase does exist but it's a lot more complex than just saying antidepressants are bad and will make most people want to die. What I'd love to see is research on the outcomes for the large number of people who take SSRIs and SNRIs for reasons other than depression, and for the media to stop acting like SSRI/SNRI encompasses all classes of antidepressant.

SSRI's and SNRI's make up the bulk of antidepressant prescribtions these days. They only consider prescribing Tricyclics afterwards and in last case scenario MAOI's(which imo are they only ones worth trying).

What do you mean other than depression? Anxiety? Panic attacks?

It might be a different view in the US, then. I've seen the research about increased suicide risk, the actual studies don't always match the media summaries. As always, the media sensationalizes and misrepresents facts because the media authors don't actually understand the science. The increase does exist but it's a lot more complex than just saying antidepressants are bad and will make most people want to die. What I'd love to see is research on the outcomes for the large number of people who take SSRIs and SNRIs for reasons other than depression, and for the media to stop acting like SSRI/SNRI encompasses all classes of antidepressant.

New study: antidepressants significantly raise the risk of suicide in the treatment of depression for adults -

Adults who start treatment with antidepressants for depression are 2.5 times more likely to attempt suicide when compared to placebo, according to new research published today in the journal Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics. The study found that approximately 1 in every 200 people who start...

cepuk.org

 

[NextSummer]

The reason why a lot of people also call it a "chemical imbalance" is to lessen the bad reputation of depression. You don't want to be associated with "being a looser" or "a failure". So they say it's an imbalance that can strike everybody.

 

[cornflowerblue]

SSRI's and SNRI's make up the bulk of antidepressant prescribtions these days. They only consider prescribing Tricyclics afterwards and in last case scenario MAOI's(which imo are they only ones worth trying).

What do you mean other than depression? Anxiety? Panic attacks?

New study: antidepressants significantly raise the risk of suicide in the treatment of depression for adults -

Adults who start treatment with antidepressants for depression are 2.5 times more likely to attempt suicide when compared to placebo, according to new research published today in the journal Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics. The study found that approximately 1 in every 200 people who start...

cepuk.org

I work in mental health btw. These drugs are prescribed for other mood disorders too, but that's not what I was referring to. SNRIs are used quite a bit for many types of pain disorders, to treat the pain itself, even for patients without mood disorders.

Other popular antidepressant classes: SMS, NDRI, and NMDA agonists are also getting popular. In much of the US, Wellbutrin (NDRI) is a first line treatment. It's not as popular in Europe as far as I know.

 

[Shamana]

The reason why a lot of people also call it a "chemical imbalance" is to lessen the bad reputation of depression. You don't want to be associated with "being a looser" or "a failure". So they say it's an imbalance that can strike everybody.

It's a lie of the higest order though. And doctors and psychiatrists do believe in since they brainwashed and funded by big pharma

 

[SinisterKid]

I can only speak from personal experience. I was told, unequivocally, that my depression was caused by a chemical imbalance within my brain. My own research has proven that to be a myth. Its almost at the same status as Urban Legend, something that has become much bigger than the total sum of its parts. It is based in no factual evidence, only assumptions which are ambiguous at best. Therefore, my own conclusion is, I was lied to by the medical profession here in the UK. Which in turns means, a whole lot of people are being hoodwinked into believing something which is simply not true and to what purpose? That is my question. I am not given to conspiracy theories et al, but it does suggest something bigger than a basic lie because it affects some 7.5 million people in the UK alone. I am astounded by that.

 

[cornflowerblue]

I can only speak from personal experience. I was told, unequivocally, that my depression was caused by a chemical imbalance within my brain. My own research has proven that to be a myth. Its almost at the same status as Urban Legend, something that has become much bigger than the total sum of its parts. It is based in no factual evidence, only assumptions which are ambiguous at best. Therefore, my own conclusion is, I was lied to by the medical profession here in the UK. Which in turns means, a whole lot of people are being hoodwinked into believing something which is simply not true and to what purpose? That is my question. I am not given to conspiracy theories et al, but it does suggest something bigger than a basic lie because it affects some 7.5 million people in the UK alone. I am astounded by that.

How doctors explain things to patients isn't the same as what doctors believe. The chemical imbalance explanation is intended to simplify the actual explanation so that it makes sense to patients who aren't medically literate, but it's a terrible choice because it's so far from the truth of accepted etiology.

It's not for the purpose of tricking you. It's like telling a kid "we're going to put on a bandaid to make you feel better" instead of "your wound will heal on its own via these several complex processes and the bandaid helps maintain an adequate moisture level while also reducing risk of infection from foreign bodies while you have an open wound. And the placebo effect will make you perceive a lower level of pain as well."

 

[SinisterKid]

So because I may or may not understand the medical complexities of a diagnosis, I am lied to? It never made sense to me, I just accepted it because I thought these people knew what they were talking about. In my condition, I was in no position to argue. Once it was pointed out to me that it was BS, I, being the person I am, went out of my way to prove the person wrong and that it was not BS at all. I have spent days, trawling through reports and journals trying to find something that confirmed I was right and they were wrong. I cant find one thing to substantiate anything I believed to be true. So to say its a terrible choice of explanation is the understatement of the year so far. This is my mental and psychological wellbeing we are talking about and I have just discovered that most of it is based on lies told to me by people I should be able to trust.

So as you are involved in mental health issues, perhaps you could explain, or point me in the right direction of something that explains why this lie is acceptable, because so far, nothing I have read here leads me to that point.

 

[barny]

not sure what that's about, you mean they gave you a diagnosis and then denied it?. they give out antidepressants really easy here. a lot have bad side effects and if they dont work and you've tried a few then docs just seem to give up. when there are ways of treating treatment resistant depression that they are meant to follow but dont.
I got told I had borderline personality disorder which wasn't true but they just label people with it. They said there was no medication to help with it so there was nothing they could do.
I was later diagnosed correctly with bipolar disorder and when started on mood stabilisers felt better. - for a while

 

[Shamana]

on't
How doctors explain things to patients isn't the same as what doctors believe. The chemical imbalance explanation is intended to simplify the actual explanation so that it makes sense to patients who aren't medically literate, but it's a terrible choice because it's so far from the truth of accepted etiology.

It's not for the purpose of tricking you. It's like telling a kid "we're going to put on a bandaid to make you feel better" instead of "your wound will heal on its own via these several complex processes and the bandaid helps maintain an adequate moisture level while also reducing risk of infection from foreign bodies while you have an open wound. And the placebo effect will make you perceive a lower level of pain as well."

Please read: Deadly medicine and organized crime - by Peter Gøetzsche
and: Deadly Psychiatry and Organized denial - by perter gøetzsche

Selling the monamine hypothesis to patients originates from big pharma who makes obscenly much money from.

In other medical professions doctors don't sell lies to their client? Why do you think this is?

 

[cornflowerblue]

Please read: Deadly medicine and organized crime - by Peter Gøetzsche
and: Deadly Psychiatry and Organized denial - by perter gøetzsche

Selling the monamine hypothesis to patients originates from big pharma who makes obscenly much money from.

In other medical professions doctors don't sell lies to their client? Why do you think this is?

So because I may or may not understand the medical complexities of a diagnosis, I am lied to? It never made sense to me, I just accepted it because I thought these people knew what they were talking about. In my condition, I was in no position to argue. Once it was pointed out to me that it was BS, I, being the person I am, went out of my way to prove the person wrong and that it was not BS at all. I have spent days, trawling through reports and journals trying to find something that confirmed I was right and they were wrong. I cant find one thing to substantiate anything I believed to be true. So to say its a terrible choice of explanation is the understatement of the year so far. This is my mental and psychological wellbeing we are talking about and I have just discovered that most of it is based on lies told to me by people I should be able to trust.

So as you are involved in mental health issues, perhaps you could explain, or point me in the right direction of something that explains why this lie is acceptable, because so far, nothing I have read here leads me to that point.

Simplifying isn't the same thing as lying. Ask "can you give me an in depth explanation of the etiology of depression and the mechanisms by which this medicine is supposed to work?" and you'll either get an answer or a website to read the answer yourself, depending on how long the doctor has to see you. If it's a 15 min med management appointment, ask for resources like books or websites.

Explanations given to patients for physical medicines and conditions are also simplistic to the point of being incorrect. Try asking your GP how ibuprofen or oxycodone reduce pain, how Benadryl stops an allergic reaction, etc. and you'll run into the same types of issues. There's tons of physical meds doctors recommend without knowing how the meds work and tons of physical conditions that are diagnoses solely based on patient self-report of symptoms.

The anyipsychiatry movement has DEEP roots in Scientology and the rhetoric is used to slowly convert people. Sometimes it's used out of context to bitch about psychiatry.

I'm not on this forum to explain, argue, or defend the entire field of medicine and mental health to people. I'm not going to do your research for you. To find out what doctors think, go on any of the publicly viewable forums for providers than can be found using google.

I'm here for the same reasons as everyone else.

 

[deathenvoy]

Chemical imbalance theory of depression is bullshit. There were people with low serotonin and no depression, and people with high serotonin and depression present. It is a lie invented by big pharma to sell their shitty "medications".

I can only speak from personal experience. I was told, unequivocally, that my depression was caused by a chemical imbalance within my brain. My own research has proven that to be a myth. Its almost at the same status as Urban Legend, something that has become much bigger than the total sum of its parts. It is based in no factual evidence, only assumptions which are ambiguous at best. Therefore, my own conclusion is, I was lied to by the medical profession here in the UK. Which in turns means, a whole lot of people are being hoodwinked into believing something which is simply not true and to what purpose? That is my question. I am not given to conspiracy theories et al, but it does suggest something bigger than a basic lie because it affects some 7.5 million people in the UK alone. I am astounded by that.

I learned that in many cases "science" is not different than religion.

 

[Shamana]

Simplifying isn't the same thing as lying. Ask "can you give me an in depth explanation of the etiology of depression and the mechanisms by which this medicine is supposed to work?" and you'll either get an answer or a website to read the answer yourself, depending on how long the doctor has to see you. If it's a 15 min med management appointment, ask for resources like books or websites.

Explanations given to patients for physical medicines and conditions are also simplistic to the point of being incorrect. Try asking your GP how ibuprofen or oxycodone reduce pain, how Benadryl stops an allergic reaction, etc. and you'll run into the same types of issues. There's tons of physical meds doctors recommend without knowing how the meds work and tons of physical conditions that are diagnoses solely based on patient self-report of symptoms.

The anyipsychiatry movement has DEEP roots in Scientology and the rhetoric is used to slowly convert people. Sometimes it's used out of context to bitch about psychiatry.

I'm not on this forum to explain, argue, or defend the entire field of medicine and mental health to people. I'm not going to do your research for you. To find out what doctors think, go on any of the publicly viewable forums for providers than can be found using google.

I'm here for the same reasons as everyone else.

Doctors tell their patients that pain drugs releases chemials that relieves the symptom of pain. They don't say you have a headche because you are lacking X chemical. I've found doctors be espcially strict and precise when dealing with any other condition. It's only in psychiatriy modern doctors get completely away with bullshit.

Anti-psychiatry doesn't stem from Scientology either.. It's stems from all the patients and patients relatives who've had their lives ruined by psychiatric treatments.

I can really recommend reading Peter Gøetzsche, Whitaker Or Peter Breggin on this subject.

 

[TimeToDie]

Psychiatrists believe mainly that their job is prescribing pills and pills are the answer.

Handing out psych meds literally is the definition of their job.

Virtually everyone here would be diagnosed with depression. It's automatic since if you have suicidal thoughts then by definition you suffer from depression.. Though if you read what folks here have to say you find that they tend to have truly horrific stories to tell about how totally fucked up their lives are. I fail to see how it's irrational to feel down and suicidal when so many major parts of your life objectively suck. That's not irrational. One would have to be delusional & detached from reality to feel good.

 

[not_a_robot]

I have official diagnosis of severe depression and anxiety. OK, thnx doc, appreciate it. Now I know that, we can fix it right? Well, err, no, because it transpires that what they told me is a lie, a fabrication, not based in any fact, past, present or future.

I have had physical disability for 11yrs now. Its there, for everyone to see. Its not something I can hide and pretend doesn't exist. Its irrefutable, its a fact, as clear as the nose on my face, or yours for that matter. But there is nothing can be done about said disability because it stems from brain trauma and that dear folks, they cant treat.

Before that moment in time 11yrs ago, I did not believe in stress, anxiety, depression or any other so called Mental Health issue. It was all in the mind and the mind could conquer anything if you only applied it correctly. I was physically fit and active. I had stamina to burn. Sleep was for dead people.

So fast forward and to accompany the physical disability, slow decline into mental disability came about, unbeknown to me as I did not believe in such crap. After my first suicidal episode, thats when the diagnosis was made about my mental ILL health. So what could be done about it? Well, because the said depression and anxiety was caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, we could take some pills that would correct that and make me feel better. FUCKING MYTH!

After writing something on this very forum, and someone pointing out that chemical imbalance is not measurable, I did some reading, well, a lot of reading. And yes, its true, there is no way to measure the alleged imbalances that supposedly occur in our brains due to mental illness. They are in a state of flux, constantly, so any attempt to measure them is always going to be inaccurate because of such flux. So why tell me this in the first place I ask? The answer is, I have absolutely no idea. There is not one shred of medical evidence to support such a claim. They know what these chemicals are, they know what they do and dont do, but they dont know how much or how little of them we each possess. So why throw medication at something you dont even know exists? Again, I have absolutely no idea. If, what they told me were true, why the flying fuck, 3 yrs down the road I am in a worse state than I was at the point of diagnosis?

There is, without doubt, a genetic misdemeanour in our family. My mother, uncle, sister and myself have all been, at some point or other, depressed to differing degrees. We also suspect, that if it were looked at today, my Grandma was also a depressive at points in her life. So that would explain something. There are without doubt environmental issues that contribute to my depression and anxiety. Disability being one of them. Lack of money, another. Lack of friendship. Lack of purpose. All contributing factors that no amount of medication can fix.

During the diagnosis period, therapy, group and otherwise, was helpful. Once that stopped, the slow descent back to my own personal void began. No amount of pills have been able to prevent it. But what I never got was convinced that I had the abilities to stop that descent or the tools. I am overly critical of myself. Can medication stop that? The medication to control heart rate and BP when in anxiety mode works, but it doesn't prevent my mind going into overdrive and over thinking the ins and outs of a fart.

So my conclusion is. I have been lied to and probably so have you. Medication is about as much use as a sore arse in treating matters of mental health. The stories you and I both read about anti psychotics having the reverse effect are all probably true. But why lie? thats the part I dont get and the part that really boils my piss.

You're welcome.

Simplifying isn't the same thing as lying. Ask "can you give me an in depth explanation of the etiology of depression and the mechanisms by which this medicine is supposed to work?" and you'll either get an answer or a website to read the answer yourself, depending on how long the doctor has to see you. If it's a 15 min med management appointment, ask for resources like books or websites.

Explanations given to patients for physical medicines and conditions are also simplistic to the point of being incorrect. Try asking your GP how ibuprofen or oxycodone reduce pain, how Benadryl stops an allergic reaction, etc. and you'll run into the same types of issues. There's tons of physical meds doctors recommend without knowing how the meds work and tons of physical conditions that are diagnoses solely based on patient self-report of symptoms.

The anyipsychiatry movement has DEEP roots in Scientology and the rhetoric is used to slowly convert people. Sometimes it's used out of context to bitch about psychiatry.

I'm not on this forum to explain, argue, or defend the entire field of medicine and mental health to people. I'm not going to do your research for you. To find out what doctors think, go on any of the publicly viewable forums for providers than can be found using google.

I'm here for the same reasons as everyone else.

The only "anti-psychiatry rhetoric" on this forum comes from our own experiences, but thanks for clarifying that you think our own interpretations of our own experiences are irrelevant.

"I'm not on this forum to explain, argue, or defend the entire field of medicine and mental health to people"...
Oh, but aren't you?

How doctors explain things to patients isn't the same as what doctors believe. The chemical imbalance explanation is intended to simplify the actual explanation so that it makes sense to patients who aren't medically literate, but it's a terrible choice because it's so far from the truth of accepted etiology.

It's not for the purpose of tricking you. It's like telling a kid "we're going to put on a bandaid to make you feel better" instead of "your wound will heal on its own via these several complex processes and the bandaid helps maintain an adequate moisture level while also reducing risk of infection from foreign bodies while you have an open wound. And the placebo effect will make you perceive a lower level of pain as well."

Interesting that your attempt to defend the rampant overprescription of psych meds mentions the placebo effect.
Since that's the only effect psych meds have, is what I'm saying.

 

[SinisterKid]

Sadly, the whole point of the post appears to have been lost in the mire. I am seeking a simple answer to a simple question. Why was I lied to when diagnosed with severe depression? Over simplification of anything as a reason/excuse does not cut it. Pharmaceuticals making millions from drugs that may or may not work, points in the direction of a bigger picture being skilfully disguised as something else. No recent antibiotics developed because companies can find no profit in it suggests that the monetary aspect will play a part in this sorry story at some point, but again, does not fully explain why, the whole field of medical practitioners would gladly mislead a whole patient group that are already amongst the most vulnerable people they are likely to meet in their professional lives.

I have done my research and that is what led to the question being asked. Its been a very interesting exercise thus far in seeing what others opinions are regarding such matters. Nothing so far has satisfied my need for a answer. No doubt, I will be seeking medical opinion and will probably stop taking some medication I am currently prescribed as it is my belief it is not having any positive effect on my health.

Certainly all points raised have some validation to them, whether I agree with them or not and I am still eager to receive more should anyone have more to add. Suffice to say that I still am of the opinion that I have been lied to and those lies are not because I am too dense to understand what someone is saying to me.

 

[alizee]

Sadly, the whole point of the post appears to have been lost in the mire. I am seeking a simple answer to a simple question. Why was I lied to when diagnosed with severe depression? Over simplification of anything as a reason/excuse does not cut it. Pharmaceuticals making millions from drugs that may or may not work, points in the direction of a bigger picture being skilfully disguised as something else. No recent antibiotics developed because companies can find no profit in it suggests that the monetary aspect will play a part in this sorry story at some point, but again, does not fully explain why, the whole field of medical practitioners would gladly mislead a whole patient group that are already amongst the most vulnerable people they are likely to meet in their professional lives.

I have done my research and that is what led to the question being asked. Its been a very interesting exercise thus far in seeing what others opinions are regarding such matters. Nothing so far has satisfied my need for a answer. No doubt, I will be seeking medical opinion and will probably stop taking some medication I am currently prescribed as it is my belief it is not having any positive effect on my health.

Certainly all points raised have some validation to them, whether I agree with them or not and I am still eager to receive more should anyone have more to add. Suffice to say that I still am of the opinion that I have been lied to and those lies are not because I am too dense to understand what someone is saying to me.

The answer you're seeking and for your simple question can be many wrong answers.

Nobody can read the mind of whoever diagnosed you with some pseudoscience nonsense and while they ignored what the real problem is for you. Many people in the healthcare system are delusional people because of having faith. They have faith in what they're taught, faith in how society approaches a problem and faith in your future will some day be grand.

You also could have been misfortunate to have a doctor that doesn't give a shit about anyone. The person knows all of what's coming out of the psychiatry field is pseudoscience but he/she doesn't care because all of his/her colleagues think it's real/faith in it. I sort of doubt this is the scenario and I lean more towards you came across someone who had faith; became deluded in their career. The few persons who have no faith and that decide to work in the healthcare system are not going to be making a diagnosis. They go into upper management, public relations, the pharmaceutical companies and or into the insurance system; where there's more money to be made.

In any case it's a tragedy because basically the people that did fuck you over. Continue to have better lives and get paid for doing nothing of value to society. Just drugging people and making their minds decay from ever reaching their full potential.

 

[TimeToDie]

ignore

 

[cornflowerblue]

"I'm not on this forum to explain, argue, or defend the entire field of medicine and mental health to people"...
Oh, but aren't you?

Read the rest of my posts. I'm here because I want to CTB.

Handing out psych meds literally is the definition of their job.

Virtually everyone here would be diagnosed with depression. It's automatic since if you have suicidal thoughts then by definition you suffer from depression.. Though if you read what folks here have to say you find that they tend to have truly horrific stories to tell about how totally fucked up their lives are. I fail to see how it's irrational to feel down and suicidal when so many major parts of your life objectively suck. That's not irrational. One would have to be delusional & detached from reality to feel good.

My life isn't fucked up at all. I have no trauma. The system hasn't kept me down or mistreated me or taken away my autonomy in any way. People haven't hurt or betrayed or abandoned me. I'm still depressed. I've also seen psychiatrists who didn't even want to put me on meds. They get paid per hour, not per prescription.

We all have different circumstances here. There's old people and sick people who want to CTB and they don't get labeled as being depressed. There's also differences in opinion on suicidality based on country.

 

[Shamana]

Sadly, the whole point of the post appears to have been lost in the mire. I am seeking a simple answer to a simple question. Why was I lied to when diagnosed with severe depression? Over simplification of anything as a reason/excuse does not cut it. Pharmaceuticals making millions from drugs that may or may not work, points in the direction of a bigger picture being skilfully disguised as something else. No recent antibiotics developed because companies can find no profit in it suggests that the monetary aspect will play a part in this sorry story at some point, but again, does not fully explain why, the whole field of medical practitioners would gladly mislead a whole patient group that are already amongst the most vulnerable people they are likely to meet in their professional lives.

I have done my research and that is what led to the question being asked. Its been a very interesting exercise thus far in seeing what others opinions are regarding such matters. Nothing so far has satisfied my need for a answer. No doubt, I will be seeking medical opinion and will probably stop taking some medication I am currently prescribed as it is my belief it is not having any positive effect on my health.

Certainly all points raised have some validation to them, whether I agree with them or not and I am still eager to receive more should anyone have more to add. Suffice to say that I still am of the opinion that I have been lied to and those lies are not because I am too dense to understand what someone is saying to me.

Again I would say that is comes down to Big Pharma. Big Pharma has pretty much everyone in high and relevant positions on their payroll. They are the ones promoting the monoamine hypothesis of depression and other mental illness. When mentally ill people believe they need to have their "chemical imbalance" treated for life it's a literal goldmine.

And like I said most doctors, psychiatrists, psyc nurses and mental health workers literally believe that depression is caused by lack of serotonin. But not a single one can reference a scientific study or article that proves this. They just accept it because all the experts employed by big pharma say it is this way and Psychiatrists feel more scientific when they go by a biological model of depression instead of relying on "Psychology".

 

[Shamana]

The reason why a lot of people also call it a "chemical imbalance" is to lessen the bad reputation of depression. You don't want to be associated with "being a looser" or "a failure". So they say it's an imbalance that can strike everybody.

There is no other field of medicine where it's accepted to lie to your patients though. If you ask your somatic doctor, he doesn't fuck around. The only thing they can justifiably say is that anti-depressants relieve some of the symptoms for some people. But if you look at the big picture from non-biased research then antidepressants can't even outpeform a placebo while having devastating side effects and actually haha creating chemical imbalance that causes chronic depression and treatment resistant depression. It couldn't be more depressing even if you tried to make it up.

 

[SinisterKid]

To clarify any misunderstanding.

I dont believe I was mis-diagnosed by anyone at any point. From GP, to psychologist, to psychiatrist, to health worker, to Operational Therapist, all have said pretty much the same thing. That my depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in my brain which makes it function differently to how it should if those chemicals were not imbalanced. Take the meds, it will correct said imbalance and you will feel better after the initial 6 week period is over. I accepted that these guys knew more than I did so I took the meds. Now, as Shamana pointed out to me a week or so ago, it turns out that all those people who told me I had a chemical imbalance going on, could not know, or prove, if that was correct or not. Yet all stated it to me as if it were fact over a 6 month period.

So why would that many different departments within the the NHS and that many different people, all insist on telling the same story when it is ambiguous as the very best case scenario and a downright lie at the very worst case scenario. The question still remains, why would so many people tell the same thing to so many patients when they cannot and do not know if it is based in any truth or not.

We have had a lot of cases in the UK to do with abused children that have come to light many years after the actual events. No one believed at the time of such abuse that anything was going on and the kids suffered, badly. I cant help but think, that somewhere down the line, the same kind of events are going to occur within the mental health spectrum.

I do have some recommended reading to search for, so that will be my focus for now.

 

[not_a_robot]

To clarify any misunderstanding.

I dont believe I was mis-diagnosed by anyone at any point. From GP, to psychologist, to psychiatrist, to health worker, to Operational Therapist, all have said pretty much the same thing. That my depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in my brain which makes it function differently to how it should if those chemicals were not imbalanced. Take the meds, it will correct said imbalance and you will feel better after the initial 6 week period is over. I accepted that these guys knew more than I did so I took the meds. Now, as Shamana pointed out to me a week or so ago, it turns out that all those people who told me I had a chemical imbalance going on, could not know, or prove, if that was correct or not. Yet all stated it to me as if it were fact over a 6 month period.

So why would that many different departments within the the NHS and that many different people, all insist on telling the same story when it is ambiguous as the very best case scenario and a downright lie at the very worst case scenario. The question still remains, why would so many people tell the same thing to so many patients when they cannot and do not know if it is based in any truth or not.

We have had a lot of cases in the UK to do with abused children that have come to light many years after the actual events. No one believed at the time of such abuse that anything was going on and the kids suffered, badly. I cant help but think, that somewhere down the line, the same kind of events are going to occur within the mental health spectrum.

I do have some recommended reading to search for, so that will be my focus for now.

"Mental health workers" at every level are just stupid fucking drones. They repeat the bullshit they are told to repeat in order to collect their undeserved paycheck. They don't want to think about it and they don't really give a fuck about anybody. They only want what all drones want; to be told they are special, and not be expected to think much.
If you expect more from them, you will only succeed in getting yourself labeled as "difficult". And if you think they are useless now, just wait til they decide you are "difficult". They will make themselves an impediment to your mental health in every possible way they can think of (luckily they are too dumb to be very formidable enemies, they're just annoying and stupid).

 

[Shamana]

"Mental health workers" at every level are just stupid fucking drones. They repeat the bullshit they are told to repeat in order to collect their undeserved paycheck. They don't want to think about it and they don't really give a fuck about anybody. They only want what all drones want; to be told they are special, and not be expected to think much.
If you expect more from them, you will only succeed in getting yourself labeled as "difficult". And if you think they are useless now, just wait til they decide you are "difficult". They will make themselves an impediment to your mental health in every possible way they can think of (luckily they are too dumb to be very formidable enemies, they're just annoying and stupid).

I would say on some levels there is a lot of stupidity on other levels there is a feeling of trust and loyalty. In my 2 experiences as a Psyc indward patient there is definitely some fucked up standards. I had a conversation with a nurse who among other things was trying to convince that some permanent damages I felt from SSRI's was delusions, which they are not, but let's put that aside. I told her that from my experience that Benzo's help me a great deal more than antidepressants, but she told that they cause dependcy. Then I told her that SSRI's and SNRI's have created for me way higher dependency and withdrawal symptoms than any other drug I've ever tried. She told me that was a delusion and then I asked her "Well can I email you or show a host of scientific studies that show SSRI's and SNRI's create severe withdrawael symptoms?" and she just said "You have your opinion and I have mine."

In general doctor's don't really critize each other. It's more or less blasphemy to critize a colleague. So if the top dogs in Psychiatry and in the FDA are on Big Pharma's payroll, which they are, the rest of the little hounds feel in no position to critize their statements.

 

[alizee]

Psychiatry is literally just above if not the same as the criminal justice system. Specifically when it comes to how they deal with their clients. You don't want to be in either of those systems and unless you're getting a pay check as an employee while having no moral integrity.

The inheriting trust people place upon the healthcare system is from thinking that becoming a doctor is difficult. Then correlating the difficult task of becoming a doctor for a specific job and which is connected with the idea of helping a person. Neither of these two assumptions have real valid proof for all fields encompassing the healthcare system. People are just having faith in assumptions and the product is making all healthcare fields have some notoriety complex. Furthermore, each hospital markets the faith in the healthcare system by promoting the services are worth the large expense because your health is what's be focuses upon.

Anyway the faith perspective overshadows the field of psychiatry. People enter the healthcare system with assuming the best and when there is no real reason other than having faith in the healthcare system. Faith is often had without any real evidence. The negative outcomes are not going to be shared because that's just not how you run a business. People working wherever position will never imagine what they do is actually negative outcomes for some people. Specifically when they had many years at university for it and they convince themselves every day that things are correct. The negative outcomes are just seen as there was nothing we could do but we had to do what came before because if we didn't.. we're not following the code that actually helps people.

 

[not_a_robot]

Psychiatry is literally just above if not the same as the criminal justice system. Specifically when it comes to how they deal with their clients. You don't want to be in either of those systems and unless you're getting a pay check as an employee while having no moral integrity.

The inheriting trust people place upon the healthcare system is from thinking that becoming a doctor is difficult. Then correlating the difficult task of becoming a doctor for a specific job and which is connected with the idea of helping a person. Neither of these two assumptions have real valid proof for all fields encompassing the healthcare system. People are just having faith in assumptions and the product is making all healthcare fields have some notoriety complex. Furthermore, each hospital markets the faith in the healthcare system by promoting the services are worth the large expense because your health is what's be focuses upon.

Anyway the faith perspective overshadows the field of psychiatry. People enter the healthcare system with assuming the best and when there is no real reason other than having faith in the healthcare system. Faith is often had without any real evidence. The negative outcomes are not going to be shared because that's just not how you run a business. People working wherever position will never imagine what they do is actually negative outcomes for some people. Specifically when they had many years at university for it and they convince themselves every day that things are correct. The negative outcomes are just seen as there was nothing we could do but we had to do what came before because if we didn't.. we're not following the code that actually helps people.

I like that you keep referring to "faith" in the medical system, since there is no more scientific truth in the mental health field than in religion.