Is wanting to die an irrational thought?

[motel rooms]

Existence is too painful to me. Just seems like that philosopher was completely undecided on the morality of suicide.

I think he changed his mind about suicide when that stupid bitch Hegel died & he unexpectedly became slightly famous

 

[Yiyo123]

I don't think is irrational. Noboby is forcing you to do it. Of course, people will try to convince you not to do it, but in the end you decide. You make a choice and take a chance.

 

[motel rooms]

Death by starvation would be philosophically "acceptable" because of a complete indifference "will-nesness" towards life and death. So basically it's not suicide by starvation, it's the fact that you just don't give a shit about anything anymore that you stop eating.

I don't buy that, I refuse to idealize Indian ascetics. Even the Buddha called them misguided because they weren't actually indifferent to life & death - they still very much gave a shit about dying a "holy" death & escaping "the wheel of suffering/reincarnation"

I feel a little guilt tripped with your comment regards my ability to enjoy life. It is very limited at the moment. But I do have glimpses of hope sometimes. I hope you do find them too

At this stage in my life I consider hope a dangerous illusion

 

[Cockney_Rebel]

I might add, I think we are built to enjoy life.

It is society which disables us to enjoy, because morals, ideals, bad people, idk, whatever...

So it might be rational to die if you're suffering, but unless you have stage 4 cancer, there's something intrinsically wrong with suffering so much.

It MIGHT be possible that we recover the ability to enjoy life though elevated means, like art. Writing, acting, music, whatever.

"So it might be rational to die if you're suffering, but unless you have stage 4 cancer, there's something intrinsically wrong with suffering so much."

I'm really suffering at the moment.

Psychologically.

It no doubt has to do with the fact that I've come off of all of my medication. But I just don't want to live a lie anymore.

Going back to your statement, are you saying that unless you have a severe physical illness, there's no rationality for wanting to die? Do severe psychological illnesses (including acute suicidal ideation) not count? Are you saying that what I'm thinking/how I feel is wrong?

 

[rs929]

"So it might be rational to die if you're suffering, but unless you have stage 4 cancer, there's something intrinsically wrong with suffering so much."

I'm really suffering at the moment.

Psychologically.

It no doubt has to do with the fact that I've come off of all of my medication. But I just don't want to live a lie anymore.

Going back to your statement, are you saying that unless you have a severe physical illness, there's no rationality for wanting to die? Do severe psychological illnesses (including acute suicidal ideation) not count? Are you saying that what I'm thinking/how I feel is wrong?

It's really hard to define "wrong"

I'm not talking about morals here. I'm just addressing the notion of a fully rationally supported suicide, one in which it makes sense that you actually go ahead with it because it is the best route.

So, going back to the stage 4 cancer patient, there's scientifically no turning back. You're going to suffer and then you're going to die. It really makes a lot of sense to commit suicide.

However, in the case of mental illness, things are not so clear. How can you be certain that you will suffer the rest of your life?. How do you know that you're not biased by your illness?. How can you make a rational decision when you're in pain and you desperately want your pain to stop?

EDIT: If the meds give you a relief to your suffering then I find irrational to stop taking them. I mean, even if you believe that they disconnect you with your "true" feelings, who cares?

 

[motel rooms]

However, in the case of mental illness, things are not so clear. How can you be certain that you will suffer the rest of your life?. How do you know that you're not biased by your illness?. How can you make a rational decision when you're in pain and you desperately want your pain to stop?

But certain mental illnesses are incurable... That's why people can request euthanasia on the basis of mental suffering in compassionate societies like Holland, Belgium & Luxembourg

 

[Cockney_Rebel]

But certain mental illnesses are incurable... That's why people can request euthanasia on the basis of mental suffering in compassionate societies like Holland, Belgium & Luxembourg

I watched this quite a while ago.

If I remember correctly, she never went through with it.

 

[motel rooms]

I watched this quite a while ago.

If I remember correctly, she never went through with it.

But she knows that she can (if she's still alive today), & that's a big deal. Wouldn't you want to be able to request euthanasia on the grounds of severe mental suffering in the UK?

 

[Cockney_Rebel]

But she knows that she can (if she's still alive today), & that's a big deal. Wouldn't you want to be able to request euthanasia on the grounds of severe mental suffering in the UK?

Absolutely.

 

[JustAMatterOfTime]

Does it have to be rational?

 

[Carrotcake]

Rationality has many different definitions/meanings/usages, so that a simple answer is difficult to give here. And difficult answers I no longer have the brain capacity for unfortunately.

However, for a simple approach there is the hedonistic calculus. A method that stems in utilitarianism where one works out the sum total of the pleasure (+) and pain (-) of an act. Now, compare this value with the alternative act, and the act with the highest value is the "right" course of action.

I'd say that for the suicidal, the act of living has a negative sum total, as our lives mostly exists of pain and suffering.

I'd argue that the act of dying results in zero, as there is no sensation or feeling any longer.

Zero > [negative value], thus dying is the right act to choose.

 

[rs929]

Rationality has many different definitions/meanings/usages, so that a simple answer is difficult to give here. And difficult answers I no longer have the brain capacity for unfortunately.

However, for a simple approach there is the hedonistic calculus. A method that stems in utilitarianism where one works out the sum total of the pleasure (+) and pain (-) of an act. Now, compare this value with the alternative act, and the act with the highest value is the "right" course of action.

I'd say that for the suicidal, the act of living has a negative sum total, as our lives mostly exists of pain and suffering.

I'd argue that the act of dying results in zero, as there is no sensation or feeling any longer.

Zero > [negative value], thus dying is the right act to choose.

I have two observations though:

-An utilitarist point of view should also take in account everyone involved. So your suicide might affect negatively other people, and you should put that into the equation.
-How can you feasibly measure the amount of suffering you'll have in the future, as it has yet to come

But certain mental illnesses are incurable... That's why people can request euthanasia on the basis of mental suffering in compassionate societies like Holland, Belgium & Luxembourg

Like I said, when it comes to mental illness things are not so easy. And I think it should be evaluated case by case.
I mean, some mental illnesses are incurable as you said, but in most cases they're treatable, and a lot of people will respond to treatment. Or they will find something that makes their lives worth living.
I do agree with assisted suicide, even in cases of psychiatric disorder, but there must be a judgement on whether a reasonable amount of things have been done to help that person. I mean, let's say a depressed individual says he wants to be assisted to die. He has have never ever tried even a SSRI. He has never visited a therapist. And on top of that, he has been depressed for only a year (I'm exaggerating a bit to make a point). Would you provide assisted suicide to this individual? I wouldn't.
So between this fictitious individual and a stage 4 cancer patient, there are a lot of shades of gray. So I would say, I think it should be allowed. Just not for everyone.