Is the whole planet better off dead?

[voidfluidoverdose]

Suicide is considered "selfish" because you're leaving others with the pain of survival while you get to peacefully not exist. If everyone was dead at once, we wouldn't have that problem. Animals would feel distressed that the human they've grown attached to is gone, but they don't really have enough of a sense of self or future to know what pain awaits them from continuing to exist. It pains me to think of animals dying due to their innocence and inability to understand what's going on, but at the same time, is it cruel to just let them continued to be pulled along by hunger and fear? I don't know. Maybe the world itself should be destroyed.

 

[fleshpuppet]

I think so. If you were to evaluate the sum of suffering versus the sum of pleasure experienced in the lives of all living beings, I think you'd find there is an overwhelming amount of suffering. For the absurd number of living organisms of Earth, very few of them live a life that isn't a constant battle against pain and death. For sustained life to exist animals must endlessly kill one another to survive themselves. The same applies to us humans, though indirectly, for our existence necessities the suffering of other beings to sustain us.

 

[aufrechtm7]

No. If all life was eliminated there'd be no suffering, but there'd also be no prosperity

I think so. If you were to evaluate the sum of suffering versus the sum of pleasure experienced in the lives of all living beings, I think you'd find there is an overwhelming amount of suffering. For the absurd number of living organisms of Earth, very few of them live a life that isn't a constant battle against pain and death. For sustained life to exist animals must endlessly kill one another to survive themselves. The same applies to us humans, though indirectly, for our existence necessities the suffering of other beings to sustain us.

Wiping the planet of all life as a good action falls apart morally because even though you removed suffering, you removed every other positive outcome also. There's no value in that world. It's cruel that suffering has to coexist with prosperity, but nonexistence can only be ideal for so much life.

 

[Alek1=]

Sentient life feels like an anomaly in this deterministic world. On one hand, it is a miracle that something so complex can exist, think, and experience life, and I am grateful that it does. On the other hand, the life of an animal is mostly filled with fear and pain, which serve to keep us safe. In the end, I am not sure if it makes any difference at all. WHY DO WE NEED TO BE SENTIENT FOR THIS SHIT

 

[schoolgirlbyosamu]

While I understand where you're coming from, seeing something similar to anti-natalism, but I don't think everyone being dead would be good. This forum is pro-choice, it's entirely valid for people to choose to live too, just as valid as ours. Wiping out everyone would be taking away that choice. Eliminating everyone to minimize the trauma of suicide just wouldn't be justified. People who want to live, who enjoy life, they deserve that life.
Hope this helps and isn't too harsh!

 

[itsgone2]

Yes. Most of the world is pretty messed up. The Mexican cartels for example, what they do to people is inhuman. Constant wars. The horrific way women are treated in so many countries. Crime now rising in peaceful western countries. Unless you're rich this world is a horror. Even they can't always escape. This world doesn't seem worth fighting for

 

[Charmander07]

Suicide is considered "selfish" because you're leaving others with the pain of survival while you get to peacefully not exist. If everyone was dead at once, we wouldn't have that problem. Animals would feel distressed that the human they've grown attached to is gone, but they don't really have enough of a sense of self or future to know what pain awaits them from continuing to exist. It pains me to think of animals dying due to their innocence and inability to understand what's going on, but at the same time, is it cruel to just let them continued to be pulled along by hunger and fear? I don't know. Maybe the world itself should be destroyed.

I agree with you so much, this world is horrible, nature is evil but I understand it. Humans are the worst tho, I'm no excuse to it but too many people on this world deep down are selfish or horrible people. I feel like the only solution is to destroy the world, hopefully I'm reincarnated into an asteroid

 

[voidfluidoverdose]

I don't want to be reincarnated at all

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's that weird impossibility again though really- like the saying: 'Rest in peace'. If death is nothing, then we won't experience that sense of peace. Similarly, beings can't be 'better off' if they either don't exist to begin with or, don't exist in the future. They simply don't exist- so, how can we compare their experience of that state to being alive? Non existence presumably can't be experienced.

It's like- I do grasp what you mean. Kind of like saying- I'd be better off dead or, it would have been better if I'd never been born. But then, it's unlikely we can say- I really enjoyed my time when I was unborn.

It's more like we are projecting our idea of being calm, having no responsibilities, having no pain or senses beyond our death and, before our birth. I suppose we can still decide that's preferable to experiencing life though.

I'm not so convinced we can confidently make that decision for all living beings though. It's undoubtable that plenty of beings do suffer and experience pain here but, we can't really claim to know how they feel. Can you confidently know how a jellyfish, eagle, tree, mushroom, ant, lion, virus feels? Whether they would prefer never to have existed?

The universe is still quite a mystery too. We don't seem to have concrete answers. We don't know whether life here is an anomoly. We don't know how it fits or whether it fits into something much bigger. To decide to destroy everything though- feels like God level thinking and power. We aren't Gods and I don't think we should try to be.

 

[FuneralCry]

I believe this horrific, evil world never should had existed, this existence is a mistake that only ever causes all this harm and suffering, to suffer in this existence is just always the most terrible, dreadful abomination to me that never should had been imposed.

It's just so terrible how humans cause all this unnecessary suffering by imposing this existence in the first place, to me the existence of life is the most terrible, devastating tragedy, there's just so much evil in existing with existing beings tortured in agony every second with no limit as to how much one can be tortured.

 

[Forveleth]

I have long held the belief humans should be removed from the planet. Nature was doing great on its own until we showed up.

 

[Lapdog6795]

Who are we to decide? All we know is that life is a constant fight against entropy. Suffering is deeply woven into the fabric of existence and pleasure is only a temporary relief from this fight. Hell, we aren't even sure if death is the permanent end to existence.

 

[thefirstluminary]

While I understand where you're coming from, seeing something similar to anti-natalism, but I don't think everyone being dead would be good. This forum is pro-choice, it's entirely valid for people to choose to live too, just as valid as ours. Wiping out everyone would be taking away that choice. Eliminating everyone to minimize the trauma of suicide just wouldn't be justified. People who want to live, who enjoy life, they deserve that life.
Hope this helps and isn't too harsh!

I don't understand you guys are talking like this world is everything, I assume many of you don't believe in the after life but this life is all temporary no?
and people who suffered in it won't simply go forgotten and just vanish. people who suffered will actually be rewarded god didn't just make suffer just like that for no reason if that that's unfair and if god is unfair he's a not what's the point then

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

to me the every day regular suffering, work a job, endless chores, problems the average human has to do every day outweigh any fleeting pleasurable or what they say are important things

but the unending constant unbearable pain outweigh meaningless fleeting pleasurable things by a billion times

What's worth getting a brain eating parasite , having most of skin burned of in a a fire and living like that, a brain stroke, kidnapping torture, or suffering in constant pain for 30 years in a nursing home , or getting dementia? Is eating a sandwich, watching a shit clicbait youtube video, or watching a fucking sunset worth that torture?. Or for animals getting eaten alive as most animals died?

The only thing pleasurable in that list to me is eating a sandwich. But evolution implanted that to use me game me to pass on the genes. But that shit pleasure of eating food is nothing compared to the worst constant worst unbearable pain .

To me the constant worst pain is billion times worse less wanted than the stupid pleasure is wanted

I hate the pleasure addictions the most. They stole all my time fooled me from working on getting my suicide method decided and ready to go . Meaningless fleeting destructive time wasting addictions that only lead to the worst torture

 

[CaramelAppleStars]

Maybe not the entire planet, but definitely the human race. I'm sure not many people will hold the same beliefs, but I truly think humans are a stain on earth. Imo, the human race not existing doesn't need to be a justification for suicidal people being "selfish"; however, I believe this planet would be better off without humans as a whole. Or maybe just this level of intelligence. Having higher intelligence is just nothing. We can only fix problems that we ourselves create. All that is good to humans holds no value to other species (as far as we know anyway). I definitely agree that without suffering there is no prosperity, like Aufrechtm7 said, but does that all really matter if those are concepts made and upheld by humans that don't exist..?

 

[Rainork]

I don't think the planet is the issue.. the 'smart race' in charge of it and destroying nature though? Yeah that's not great.

 

[aufrechtm7]

Maybe not the entire planet, but definitely the human race. I'm sure not many people will hold the same beliefs, but I truly think humans are a stain on earth. Imo, the human race not existing doesn't need to be a justification for suicidal people being "selfish"; however, I believe this planet would be better off without humans as a whole. Or maybe just this level of intelligence. Having higher intelligence is just nothing. We can only fix problems that we ourselves create. All that is good to humans holds no value to other species (as far as we know anyway). I definitely agree that without suffering there is no prosperity, like Aufrechtm7 said, but does that all really matter if those are concepts made and upheld by humans that don't exist..?

I would be lying if I said I didn't think about humans getting wiped out at times but that would be more cruel and create far more suffering than just wiping everything out. My dog would have no one to protect her and she'd die, a lot of other animals do rely on us sadly.

 

[meddle]

you might like philipp mainländer and ulrich horstmann

 

[aufrechtm7]

I don't understand you guys are talking like this world is everything, I assume many of you don't believe in the after life but this life is all temporary no?
and people who suffered in it won't simply go forgotten and just vanish. people who suffered will actually be rewarded god didn't just make suffer just like that for no reason if that that's unfair and if god is unfair he's a not what's the point then

We don't truly know what happens after death sadly, but if you have beliefs it's good to keep them close to your heart because that's the only thing that matters in the end.

It's important to talk about the value of life alongside happiness and suffering, most would agree they're two sides of the same coin. It's not logical to argue that happiness has no positive value with that framework. You destroy the entire incentive to ctb in the first place because there is no reason to ctb that matters.

Can you argue that only suffering has value (negative)? Sure, but that's an even shakier leg to stand on.

 

[thefirstluminary]

Maybe not the entire planet, but definitely the human race. I'm sure not many people will hold the same beliefs, but I truly think humans are a stain on earth. Imo, the human race not existing doesn't need to be a justification for suicidal people being "selfish"; however, I believe this planet would be better off without humans as a whole. Or maybe just this level of intelligence. Having higher intelligence is just nothing. We can only fix problems that we ourselves create. All that is good to humans holds no value to other species (as far as we know anyway). I definitely agree that without suffering there is no prosperity, like Aufrechtm7 said, but does that all really matter if those are concepts made and upheld by humans that don't exist..?

What's the point of us not existing on a world that is created for us? that's what differentiate us from other beings we have intellect humans are the ones who shaped the current world we are living on right now with all its flaws... tbh humans can be good or evil beings, humans are the ones who made life easier and the ones who try destroy it and screw it all up. I always wondered how the whole violence and evil started cause why? it doesn't make any sense
Removing humans from the equation will actually make planet earth perfect but there is no point of that cause it's only animals they don't really serve in purpose they just exist as part of nature but as for us humans we think we made and we create stuff, humans killed, destroyed, made great achievements, discovered stuff and it's all impressive but that leads us to what now? we just die and vanish too I don't even know wtf I'm talking about

It's important to talk about the value of life alongside happiness and suffering, most would agree they're two sides of the same coin. It's not logical to argue that happiness has no positive value with that framework. You destroy the entire incentive to ctb in the first place because there is no reason to ctb that matters.

Can you argue that only suffering has value (negative)? Sure, but that's an even shakier leg to stand on.

I understand your point, but I think you're looking at it from a normal perspective where life contains both happiness and suffering for people who are severely depressed, their experience can be very different even if happiness exists in general, their life may feel almost entirely like suffering, with little or no happiness when someone feels trapped in that state, it can become very hard for them to believe things will improve or that happiness is possible for them

 

[Seneca65AD]

I learned a long time of ago that I cannot transfer my own opinions to others. I see through some pretty messed up "life lenses" and it would be very presumptive to say that the entire planet, or even just the human race is better off dead. Out of my colleagues, relatives and acquaintances, I would say that 80% value life and would rather be living. Now, is that just because they are scared of death or because the enjoy enough aspects of their life to want to stick around? I don't know, but if I had the ability to push a "red button" that ends the world, I can safely say with 100% certainty, I would not push it.

 

[aufrechtm7]

I understand your point, but I think you're looking at it from a normal perspective where life contains both happiness and suffering for people who are severely depressed, their experience can be very different even if happiness exists in general, their life may feel almost entirely like suffering, with little or no happiness when someone feels trapped in that state, it can become very hard for them to believe things will improve or that happiness is possible for them

I can see where the confusion might come from in my words, but that's not what I'm saying.

 

[OnMyLast Legs]

I think there's more pain than pleasure in the world. Compare an animal eating to one being eaten, as Schopenhauer says.

 

[CaramelAppleStars]

What's the point of us not existing on a world that is created for us? that's what differentiate us from other beings we have intellect humans are the ones who shaped the current world we are living on right now with all its flaws... tbh humans can be good or evil beings, humans are the ones who made life easier and the ones who try destroy it and screw it all up. I always wondered how the whole violence and evil started cause why? it doesn't make any sense
Removing humans from the equation will actually make planet earth perfect but there is no point of that cause it's only animals they don't really serve in purpose they just exist as part of nature but as for us humans we think we made and we create stuff, humans killed, destroyed, made great achievements, discovered stuff and it's all impressive but that leads us to what now? we just die and vanish too I don't even know wtf I'm talking about

I do understand what you're trying to say. Do you believe in God/gods? Genuine question with no judgment.

I think that believing that the world is created for humans is a line of thinking that usually comes with religion. Me personally, I'm definitely not going to say the world isn't created for humans because there is really no way of confirming nor denying, but maybe for someone who is non-religious or atheist, that is not an explanation.

I guess my response to the world being created for humans is to create a new one? Who knows, I'm no god. Maybe this world is like what a sandbox or evolution game is to us, but on a higher scale.

I would be lying if I said I didn't think about humans getting wiped out at times but that would be more cruel and create far more suffering than just wiping everything out. My dog would have no one to protect her and she'd die, a lot of other animals do rely on us sadly.

I totally replied to the wrong thing before, my mistake.

I have no pets of my own, but I definitely do understand this. I wish there was a way to let those animals become independent before anything, but that's definitely a fantasy thought. I guess this whole discussion is rooted in fantasy, but this feels a little more outlandish.

 

[Sphinxi]

No. Life is inherently valuable, and beautiful. Most people and most animals want to live, we should respect that. As suicidal people, we are abnormal for wanting to die, we shouldn't universlize that, or subject others to our pessimism

 

[OnMyLast Legs]

most animals want to live

And how many get eaten so one predator can live?

 

[Sphinxi]

And how many get eaten so one predator can live?

I don't really see the problem with this, I'm not a utilitarian. It seems that that's just how the world is.

 

[Pluto]

 

[hao☆]

Suicide is considered "selfish" because you're leaving others with the pain of survival while you get to peacefully not exist. If everyone was dead at once, we wouldn't have that problem. Animals would feel distressed that the human they've grown attached to is gone, but they don't really have enough of a sense of self or future to know what pain awaits them from continuing to exist. It pains me to think of animals dying due to their innocence and inability to understand what's going on, but at the same time, is it cruel to just let them continued to be pulled along by hunger and fear? I don't know. Maybe the world itself should be destroyed.

i always had a fantasy with the third impact since i was in middle school, i really wished it happened every single day, i just hated the thought of suffering existing

 

[deathisapanacea]

Yes. No existence is better than any thriving life.