Is suicide the absolute liberation?

[darkwater]

I have been so bitter all these years that life has brought me to this hopeless situation. Last year I saw 200,000 people die a few hundred kilometers from here, too soon. But in the end it hits everyone. So why not do it today and then never have to think about it again?

 

[botanormal]

That's definitely one way to think about it! I guess the argument to that would be that, you can die at any time, so why die before you have to? The meaning of death is linked to the meaning of life, but those meanings are decided by yourself. So maybe dying will feel like liberation to you, but to someone else it may feel like imprisonment!

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Every movie has it´s end, but thats no reason to stop watching prior to the credits. The only reson not to watch the complete movie is a boring or unplesant one. To bad that in our case zapping is not possible.

 

[lionetta12]

I have been so bitter all these years that life has brought me to this hopeless situation. Last year I saw 200,000 people die a few hundred kilometers from here, too soon. But in the end it hits everyone. So why not do it today and then never have to think about it again?

Death makes you as free as you can be.

 

[SamTam33]

I've said this before but it's not like you can take any of your experiences with you.

So if you hang around to watch a few more sunsets, you can't take those visuals with you. There's no difference in dying today or 3 years from now.

Unless you're on the verge of a scientific breakthrough, you're paying for someone's education expenses or you're waiting to receive your settlement in a lawsuit - what the hell is really gonna change between now and whenever you'd die naturally?

Dying sooner just saves you some heartache and struggle.

The absence of those things is far more impactful than the presence of a sunset or a bird chirping or whatever.

 

[cowmeow]

I've said this before but it's not like you can take any of your experiences with you.

So if you hang around to watch a few more sunsets, you can't take those visuals with you. There's no difference in dying today or 3 years from now.

Unless you're on the verge of a scientific breakthrough, you're paying for someone's education expenses or you're waiting to receive your settlement in a lawsuit - what the hell is really gonna change between now and whenever you'd die naturally?

Dying sooner just saves you some heartache and struggle.

The absence of those things is far more impactful than the presence of a sunset or a bird chirping or whatever.

This is something i think as well.
I asked my friends (the ones without depression, or recovering from it) why they wanna live so much. Because what is the point if in the end we are going to die anyway? So you KNOW you are going to die regardless of what you do on earth. If you became a doctor, watched the sunset and went to the beach... amazing memories, ofc, but what's the point?
I said "i don't even like living. Yeah, some part of life is good, maybe 30%, and this is me being generous. The rest is work again and again. So we should we stay here? Isn't easier dying?"
This is something that's set in on my mind. "Dying isn't easy, but living is so much harder". To overcome your survival instincts... yeah, that's shit tough. But living? man....
Anyway... they answered "it's exactly because of that. We only have one life. And i already know whats in the end of the journey. So i want to enjoy the ride". And my question was, "but what about when you can't enjoy the ride? What to do when even the pointless part of the ride it sucks?". They said my perceptions were tainted by depression. I asked "how do you know? What if this is the real me? That see the world how it really is? I'm not denying my mental illness, but let's consider for an instant that's not the depression, this is me, my brain, so what? So what there isn't a cure for this terrible feeling?" their answer was that they could know it wasn't me, because our brain it's a survivalist, and in the moment your brain wants to die, there's something wrong, since it's not a behavior very evolution like lol
I started asking myself "well, that idea kinda implies that a person can never chose suicide consciously", which i personally disagree. In my case i do have severe depression and it gets more tiring each day to fight it, but whatever...
Everything just makes me wonder how these people out there do it. I ask myself all the time. Why they wanna live SO much? I still don't get it.
Life isn't terrible. But it isn't this piece of joy some people make out to be either. It's just life.

 

[Forever Sleep]

their answer was that they could know it wasn't me, because our brain it's a survivalist, and in the moment your brain wants to die, there's something wrong, since it's not a behavior very evolution like lol
I started asking myself "well, that idea kinda implies that a person can never chose suicide consciously", which i personally disagree.

I think we may have evolved to be conscious but I see consciousness as separate from our primal brain. Our primal brain DEFINITELY wants to survive- that's where our SI resides. Still- on top of that/separate to that- human beings can make choices that are absolutely at odds with what nature usually dictates: we can choose not to have children, we can choose to murder our offspring and we can choose to commit suicide. We also choose to go on knowingly killing the planet that our lives depend on.

People may well say that this type of thinking is the result of a sick mind- an unnatural act. IS consciousness part of nature though? It has grown from nature certainly but it doesn't seem to play by the rules anymore. Plus- it tends to be cultural norms that dictate what is and what is not 'ok' now. Not long ago, it was illegal to be gay. That was seen as unnatural. I suspect people who opted not to have children were also ostracized.

I'd argue that we certainly came from nature but we're not natural anymore. We wear clothes, we ensure that even the very weakest of our species survive- we don't give a shit about natural selection anymore. If we can't conceive or we get ill- we rely on medicine and science and wealth to help us. Our personalities are guided more by culture than nature.

If we lived according to our primal urges (of course- some people do!) I imagine we'd be in even more of a mess. Social and religious laws exist to try and stop us living according to our urges! If we weren't taught it was wrong to steal and screw around with other people's spouses and even kill- I imagine it would be even more of a jungle out there.

So- I'd say- very few people ARE living 'natural' lives in the first place. We are all a sum of our genetics, culture and experiences. It isn't madness to dislike something- surely? We just happen to strongly dislike what constitutes our lives!

I think there is slightly less pressure for us to comply to sexual norms now and people don't generally consider anti-natalists crazy (or, do they?) Maybe we will one day see a shift in ideas around suicide too.

 

[FuneralCry]

Yes. I do believe that suicide is the most rational thing that one can choose to do in such a terrible world where continuing to exist risks in experiencing extreme torment. It makes sense to choose not to delay our inevitable fate and permanently solve all problems. Death is the only relief from what is the true problem which is life itself.

I view suicide as being something admirable as it's the way to take control over an existence that we never asked for and it prevents a much worse future spent here where all that we are destined for is to suffer, deteriorate and die anyway. Existing is something completely unnecessary, it could never hold any benefits, instead only disadvantages so of course to not exist and to lack complete awareness of existence is the most ideal and perfect thing. I view it as being preferable to die as soon as possible, the less years spent here the better, as life is something that just causes harm to existing beings, it's a tragedy how life was even able to evolve in the first place.

 

[Shivali]

Yes . Liberation.... ... ... .... but for no one ...

 

[dragonhouse]

I'm ready to just get it over with and go to heaven and LARP DnD with friends eventually

 

[Rainy_days]

None of us know.

 

[TAW122]

I would say, yes, it would be absolute liberation because one could no longer suffer even if there are moments of pleasure which are oftenly fleeting and never last forever. The only difference between the person who chooses to go by their own hands versus the ones who let other circumstances cause death (natural causes, others, and/or nature), is that the one who chooses to go by their own hand is able to control how one goes and exercises the ultimate freedom of choice as well as overcoming (one of) the hardest obstacles one faces; their own survival instinct (a biological imperative within all living things to survive and procreate).

 

[Trilucid]

Perhaps the word liberation brings a ton of meaning behind it all... But death itself being the final unknown...
Perhaps it is. A life can not be experienced only through suffering, fear and sadness.

 

[Lost Magic]

We can only hope it is liberating. Surely anything beyond is better than this misery?

 

[cowmeow]

agreed.

I think we may have evolved to be conscious but I see consciousness as separate from our primal brain. Our primal brain DEFINITELY wants to survive- that's where our SI resides. Still- on top of that/separate to that- human beings can make choices that are absolutely at odds with what nature usually dictates: we can choose not to have children, we can choose to murder our offspring and we can choose to commit suicide. We also choose to go on knowingly killing the planet that our lives depend on.

People may well say that this type of thinking is the result of a sick mind- an unnatural act. IS consciousness part of nature though? It has grown from nature certainly but it doesn't seem to play by the rules anymore. Plus- it tends to be cultural norms that dictate what is and what is not 'ok' now. Not long ago, it was illegal to be gay. That was seen as unnatural. I suspect people who opted not to have children were also ostracized.

I'd argue that we certainly came from nature but we're not natural anymore. We wear clothes, we ensure that even the very weakest of our species survive- we don't give a shit about natural selection anymore. If we can't conceive or we get ill- we rely on medicine and science and wealth to help us. Our personalities are guided more by culture than nature.

If we lived according to our primal urges (of course- some people do!) I imagine we'd be in even more of a mess. Social and religious laws exist to try and stop us living according to our urges! If we weren't taught it was wrong to steal and screw around with other people's spouses and even kill- I imagine it would be even more of a jungle out there.

So- I'd say- very few people ARE living 'natural' lives in the first place. We are all a sum of our genetics, culture and experiences. It isn't madness to dislike something- surely? We just happen to strongly dislike what constitutes our lives!

I think there is slightly less pressure for us to comply to sexual norms now and people don't generally consider anti-natalists crazy (or, do they?) Maybe we will one day see a shift in ideas around suicide too.

I feel like the SI it's not me at all, it's jut my lizard brain talking lol but then it comes the rational questioning "what if i become a vegetable? Or x and Y and T happens? It would be way worse than now, even ifs already shit"
So when my therapist says "well i think there's a part of you that wants to live" i want to say "yeah, but that's not a rational part. It's basically my animal brain talking. Speaking consciously? Living is overrated. That's it.

Again, not saying earth is an hell or an paradise, it's just life... Not bad not good at all. Some like it, some don't. Unfortunately i'm on the side of those who don't...

 

[Inferno]

Death frees you from all responsibilities and worries, that's why I consider it to be peaceful. Just the idea of it makes me feel warm inside, I can't wait to finally be dead, I've been waiting my whole life to finally be at peace.

 

[LadyApple]

I've said this before but it's not like you can take any of your experiences with you.

So if you hang around to watch a few more sunsets, you can't take those visuals with you. There's no difference in dying today or 3 years from now.

Unless you're on the verge of a scientific breakthrough, you're paying for someone's education expenses or you're waiting to receive your settlement in a lawsuit - what the hell is really gonna change between now and whenever you'd die naturally?

Dying sooner just saves you some heartache and struggle.

The absence of those things is far more impactful than the presence of a sunset or a bird chirping or whatever.

Fuck that sunset it doesn't nearly make up for the pain