Is Suicide an Act of Arrogance?

[StarryEyed]

Hi. I'm new to this forum. I've been struggling most of my life with suicidal thoughts. I turned 60 this year, and I'm ready to lay to rest this struggle of whether or not I should end my life. The pull to leave is exhausting. I've never had healthy discussions about these feelings, and I'm hoping to once and for all discuss them here to to put an end to the thoughts, by making a decision. Get off the fence, you know. I'm not so concerned as to which side of the fence I end up on; I just want to make a decision. And from what I've read on this forum, this is the right place for honest, candid, safe discussions.

So my first post is about how of late I've considered my suicide is an act of arrogance, in that I'm saying that the world (including my loved ones) is just not good enough for me to remain here. And I wonder if that's part of why many people get so pissed and offended when people die by suicide. And then I say, does it really matter how they perceive my act when I'm dead? But then I say if it is an act of arrogance, maybe by curing my arrogance I won't feel suicidal.

That's just a teensie weensie part of all the millions of suicidal tapes that play in my head, so I say it's not even the tip of the iceberg, so why even bother trying to chip away at the internal dialogue?

Does anyone relate to this? Do you have any input?

 

[sserafim]

I don't believe that suicide is an act of arrogance. Rather, I consider it an act of escape and defiance. It's an escape from life and the situation and circumstance that make you feel like your life is not worth living. It's an act of defiance against life, because if you commit suicide, you basically believe that your life is worthless and meaningless enough for you to end it. Suicide goes against the natural order of things. No one "normal" wants to die. I guess that suicide could be considered inconsiderate to your loved ones, but I don't think that it's arrogant. You shouldn't stay alive solely for other people. It's your life.

 

[dragonofenvy]

I've never thought of it as an act of arrogance before or a way to escape a world that isn't good enough for you. I always thought of it is a way to escape pain. Thinking about it, it makes some sense, but as @sserafim said I think defiance is a better word. Arrogance seems to imply that you're too good for the world I think? Maybe that's how it is for a lot of people. I'm not sure how many since my reasons for it are to escape pain and it also seems to be the reason for a lot of people here.

 

[StarryEyed]

Thank you, for your input. Yes, my motives are to end suffering. Does that translate to arrogance, saying that the world is not good enough for me because it causes me too much suffering?

 

[_AllCatsAreGrey_]

I sincerely appreciate your posting. I feel that the strength of this forum is people openly sharing their experience. Thank you.

I'm 46. A chunk behind you in our playthrough of time. I've also dealt with this thought, this doubt. Ultimately, I feel that is you've used all of your facilities of reason and have considered the ultimately subjective question of, "Is this the time to catch the bus?" No one can answer this but you. This fact stands the same for you as it does for someone younger. Only you can do that analysis and sort for you what is worth living, and what is not.

To draw more closely to your question, "Is this an act of arrogance?" Free will is a huge topic. There's so many ways to see it, but personally I feel there is something essential in figuring that out for ourselves. We all have nets of culture and perhaps religion that often define our sense of value. How can we do that for ourselves? That is so challenging as we do not exist as an island. We're connected with others. At the core, we can only answer this for ourselves - even though we're connected.

Thank you for sharing your experience and internal processing.

 

[dragonofenvy]

Thank you, for your input. Yes, my motives are to end suffering. Does that translate to arrogance, saying that the world is not good enough for me because it causes me too much suffering?

I guess it depends. Do you feel superior to the world? Being arrogant means you have to feel some sense of superiority.

Then again, this all could just be an argument of semantics. Some could say arrogant, others defiant, some entitled and others misguided. For the act of suicide, I think what matters most is what the person doing it thinks. It could be broken down into very oversimplified since I don't think it needs to be a complex thought process if one doesn't want it to be. If they think it's arrogance, then I guess it was an act of arrogance for them. If it was an escape, then it was an escape, again, for them. The person doing the act in this case has more authority than everyone else. That's just me though.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I do see where you're coming from. I suppose it can be a bit of a slap in the face for loved ones that- they weren't enough to keep a person here.

I think in most cases though, it's simply that a person's situation feels so bad that sadly- no- they're not. It's obviously comforting to know people love and care about you but- they can't take away all your pain, they can't give you all their time and, nurse you through life. They likely can't support you financially forever either.

To a larger extent, we are on our own. Whether it's more a case of- 'I can't cope with this anymore' or: 'I don't see why I should cope with this anymore', both those feelings are motivated by pain or discomfort. It's not exactly arrogant to feel discomfort.

Plus, I suppose- even if it is. Even if we're being more of a spoilt brat about it: 'I'd rather die than comply' type of thing. Why are we thinking like that? I sometimes think it's because it's how we've been taught to think. Individualism and all that: 'You can be anything you want' type of thing. So- we give our all and realise that in fact- we can't.

Maybe what we're good at isn't valued in society. Maybe we didn't even have the money to be able to pursue an education in the subject we enjoyed. Or, we did but, we can't find a job in it. In which case, I think we end up feeling bitter. We get forced into wage slave jobs. So then- is it arrogance to say: 'I don't want to be a slave'? Is it really so unreasonable to say: 'I've done my bit in life. I've put in the effort but, it hasn't gotten me where I thought it would.' Is it even all that arrogant to say: 'I don't want to play this game' from the start? Most of us are working to make rich people richer while we in turn, exploit people paid less than ourselves. Why should we feel that good about being part of that system? Why would it be considered arrogance to want to leave that system? Which is the more corrupt?

Obviously, that's quite a niche reason to want to suicide but I think it may be one of the most relavent ones to the notion of arrogance- as in- someone doesn't want to comply to the (capitalist/consummerist) rules that enable them to live in this world.

 

[Ernest1964]

Suicide is the ultimate act of bravery and self determination. I didn't decide to be born but I sure as hell have the right to decide when I die.

 

[Malaria]

Arrogant, I'm not sure. I do think suicide is selfish, but I don't think being selfish is always a bad thing. Sometimes it's better to put your wants and needs over the wants and needs of others.

It's equally selfish to force people to stay alive if they don't want to and are in immense amounts of pain in my opinion. Everyone is selfish. All humans are selfish in some way. The question is whether or not being selfish is always bad, and in my opinion, it's not always bad.

 

[DreamEnd]

Suicide act can be absolutely anything. It all depends on an individuals situation. There is no general way to describe a suicide act

 

[thgilrats]

suicide is an act. period. people tend to give it emotional colouring when in reality you just leave and that's it. for you it's a relief, it's freedom. for others it's selfish and arrogant. but aren't they arrogant and selfish if they think you must do what THEY want to do with YOUR life?

if you have nothing (objectively and internally) stopping you, then you shouldn't let other people's judgment stop you.

 

[KANCEL]

Arrogance might be the wrong word.
I think the loved ones we leave behind might view themselves as not being good enough or we would want to stay, which is of course not the case.
But I don't believe if you asked them after the fact, they would describe what we do as arrogance
Most say selfish
Neither of which I agree

 

[MyChoiceAlone]

hi and welcome to you too. 3rd new member i've just noticed and congrats on 60! way too sleep deprived to try and tackle this so i won't. i will say though that i feel far from arrogant when it comes to that

 

[tbroken]

It is not, if you're not happy with your life you can quit it whenever you want. In my case i can't even breath..

 

[StarryEyed]

Thank you all so very much. Sound advice. Wow. That's put that tape to rest.

So what about all the other millions of internal suicide dialogues that run through my head, many of which you guys addressed here? Do I go through them all, trying to resolve them now - or at least the loudest ones? Is the point that I'm at now? Is that a common step in the journey for people like us who have suicidal thoughts?

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Even if it is arrogant, then who cares? Many people see suicide as the cowardly easy option so that doesn't sound like arrogance to me. Either way, why should it matter? If I'm arrogant or cowardly enough to take my own life in spite of the suffering I may cause, isn't it more likely I'll cause just as much suffering if not more if I'm allowed to continue to live?

 

[sserafim]

By the way, I forgot to add that a lot of suicidal people have low self esteem and hate themselves. They have an inferiority complex. It's the opposite of arrogance

 

[FuneralCry]

Suicide is simply a very valid personal decision, none of us consented to this futile and undesirable existence in the first place so we simply aren't obligated to continue delaying our inevitable fate until we die anyway. If people are so anti-death then I don't get why they procreate as everyone is going to die someday, death is all that's inevitable and suicide is just choosing when that should be, the right to die is a human right, not something for other people to decide.

 

[Olisop21.]

Hi. I'm new to this forum. I've been struggling most of my life with suicidal thoughts. I turned 60 this year, and I'm ready to lay to rest this struggle of whether or not I should end my life. The pull to leave is exhausting. I've never had healthy discussions about these feelings, and I'm hoping to once and for all discuss them here to to put an end to the thoughts, by making a decision. Get off the fence, you know. I'm not so concerned as to which side of the fence I end up on; I just want to make a decision. And from what I've read on this forum, this is the right place for honest, candid, safe discussions.

So my first post is about how of late I've considered my suicide is an act of arrogance, in that I'm saying that the world (including my loved ones) is just not good enough for me to remain here. And I wonder if that's part of why many people get so pissed and offended when people die by suicide. And then I say, does it really matter how they perceive my act when I'm dead? But then I say if it is an act of arrogance, maybe by curing my arrogance I won't feel suicidal.

That's just a teensie weensie part of all the millions of suicidal tapes that play in my head, so I say it's not even the tip of the iceberg, so why even bother trying to chip away at the internal dialogue?

Does anyone relate to this? Do you have any input?

Hi, I'm new here too.

 

[StarryEyed]

I totally connect to what you guys are saying. Thank you. I do worry about what others will think on the one hand, but on the other hand I don't. I'm on the fence about that too. The thing is, people's judgement of **any** action by another person is typically incorrect. All our decision-making is complex. So I can parcel off all those "what will they think" judgement internal dialogues as really irrelevant, as I can never have anyone fully understand my actions - as I will never fully understand theirs. So maybe just call it a truce?