Is it bad to avoid independence/responsibility?

[Shadowpriest]

Why do you have to provide for your close family members though? Why do you have to take care of them?

Well, you don't have to, but it is just morally positive to help at least your closer ones (mom/dad/brother/sister) and just taking reciprocity into consideration, your parents helped you when you were a child and the time will come for you to repay it (if you want ofc), it would be selfish not to.

 

[sserafim]

Well, you don't have to, but it is just morally positive to help at least your closer ones (mom/dad/brother/sister) and just taking reciprocity into consideration, your parents helped you when you were a child and the time will come for you to repay it (if you want ofc), it would be selfish not to.

Yeah I guess so, but your parents chose to procreate. It was a decision that they made, and one made without your consent and involvement. It's not like you were there asking or begging them to be born. I would even have done the opposite; I would have asked them not to conceive me, as I would have preferred never to have been. Unfortunately, I didn't have a choice or say in the matter. I was brought into existence against my will.

 

[Shadowpriest]

True, I understand your point, but think in a different way, from parents perspective. I'll also be the devil's advocate, they also could not choose the type of a child they would have, maybe they would choose someone else instead of you (current child/ do not want to take your example necessary) if they had a chance.. Of course that doesn't minimise their "guilt" of having children. If you want children you ll have to provide for it till adult age, after that everything is optional.

 

[Myforevercharlie]

"adult because you're to lazy to work."
**too
Whoever wrote that was wrong :p
The correct phrase is "too lazy," indicating an excessive level of laziness.

:) you try saying something in my language without making mistakes

 

[sserafim]

My parents are allowing me to stay for now to receive treatment for a physical issue and take classes.

I think for me what is most upsetting is that I will be leaving them to grow old. I'm sure my siblings will take good care of them, but I won't be able to repay them myself. I don't talk about it but I am still incredibly upset sometimes about medical decisions that were made against my will that could have been avoided but permanently made my condition significantly worse. I think parents do have a responsibility at times like these, and I still struggle once in a while to forgive them for it, but people are ultimately human. Overall they are good people, and I dread leaving them to potentially suffer.

Why do you want to repay your parents?

 

[DarkRange55]

:) you try saying something in my language without making mistakes

Haha well I'm dyslexic and I bare speak english didn't realize you were a foreign speaker, no worries!
Whats your mother tongue?

 

[Myforevercharlie]

Haha well I'm dyslexic and I bare speak english didn't realize you were a foreign speaker, no worries!
Whats your mother tongue?

Dutch :)

 

[Myforevercharlie]

No, I fundamentally disagree with them. Your parents brought you into this world, you didn't choose it. They also should absolutely care enough to want to make sure that you're alright, even if you're not working. That is the least they can do since they violated your consent by bringing you in this world with the capacity for suffering. They are also ultimately (though not solely) responsible for that suffering which they can reasonably prevent.

Not to mention that many people (though not all) are mentally messed up and unable to function normaly in society because of their parents' parenting. It's kind of like breaking someone's leg and then telling them to fuck off when they want you to help them carry them to a hospital.

But much more importantly this person also completely misrepresents the actual thing we're talking about when we talk about this subject in order to dishonestly present their case as more valid than it is (aka strawmanning). Nobody here, I think, is talking about people just being lazy. Pretty sure the vast majority of us are talking about people who are struggling with severe mental health issues that prevent them from holding down a normal job or being "independent."

I hate being dependent on my parents. But I also have so many mental health issues that I'm currently struggling to make money on my own. This isn't a choice by me because "I'm lazy and don't want to work." It's because I'm barely hanging together as a human being as it is. I can barely get out of bed in the morning, let alone do a regular job. And "playing video games" is even something I struggle to do. And at most can be a break from constant suffering.

Parents should regard their children with empathy and love. Period. And kicking your child out or letting them starve to death makes you a monster in my eyes.

If you really can't work it's different, but can't you get gouvernement aid or disability? No its not much, but i can live an independent life of it.

Fyi I would never ever kick my son out, took care of him even when he was an addict. Because he's my boy and I love him to pieces. But I do believe if you can provide for yourself you should. I worked part-time for years, no not much luxury but enough.

 

[DarkRange55]

Dutch :)

Nice! The Netherlands is a beautiful country!

If you really can't work it's different, but can't you get gouvernement aid or disability? No its not much, but i can live an independent life of it.

Fyi I would never ever kick my son out, took care of him even when he was an addict. Because he's my boy and I love him to pieces. But I do believe if you can provide for yourself you should. I worked part-time for years, no not much luxury but enough.

You have a very neat profile pic

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

It's a moot point because for so many people even if they wanted to be independent, they can't.

My parents want me to eventually be independent though; they don't want me living off of them forever. My mom always says things like "how long do you think this can last? You'll have to be responsible for yourself someday. One day you'll have to support yourself."

My mom tells me these things all the time too. In her case, she's a bit of a hypocrite in this regard and she's getting old and lazy herself so I had no choice but to get a shitty part time job just so I could stop contributing to her credit card debt. Before I was able to coast by on some government money from one of my sisters being disabled but now even that isn't enough.

What sucks is that even if I didn't have to worry about paying for my sister and even if I were to one day decide that I want to be independent, I can't. Even with my bachelor's degree in Business, I spent years trying to get a job and nothing that wasn't a scam showed up until my current job which doesn't pay nearly enough to survive at all independently. Sure I could attempt to grind and put myself through the hell of becoming a supervisor but even then it wouldn't make enough money to live in California unless I had a partner making the same amount to live with. For now I'm forced to live with my mom and sisters because rent is free (though my share of the income from taking care of my sister goes directly to the mortgage) and so are all the bills including phone, internet, water, and electricity.

Even when I was sitting on my ass all day playing video games I had more freedom to actually do what I want than now when I have a job which I don't even hate that much but it makes me physically exhausted and there's the whole situation with the girl from work who I have a crush on and this shit tears me apart on a daily basis as well. There's no winning. No escape except for the things viewed as unproductive.

 

[Myforevercharlie]

Nice! The Netherlands is a beautiful country!

You have a very neat profile pic

Thanks. I made it for my friend 4 years ago

 

[ColorlessTrees]

If avoiding responsibilities is going to overstep onto others, especially a dependent, like a pet or child (for those that have them) then yes, it is bad. On the scale of severity, expecting everything for nothing would be next.
I absolutely hate my position as 'disabled', leeching off my family. Even though I feel no sense of closeness in our dysfunction, I still prefer to contribute where I can. I used to fault my parents for having me, and to a degree it is their job to be around for their children and raise them properly (thanks for shirking your duties, dad). But eventually I realized it's pointless to dwell on now, and just creates more hostility and suffering. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

Once you're an adult, you tend to have options, barring extreme circumstances. If you can contribute, or better yet hold down a job—create some sort of income, yes, you ideally should. If not, I still think one should take care of other things like housework, or try to get on disability instead if your home life sucks (yeah, I'm aware it's difficult some places).
Sure, we can sit around arguing about the fairness of anything, but you, general 'you', will need to choose a path eventually.

Speaking as someone who has tried and failed in a variety of traditional work/edu 5x, due to my debilitating condition(s), I know how it can be. But I also know I'm lucky to be taken care of. I don't want to act entitled about it and not try ever again, for the sake of both my current 'providers' and myself. If that was the case, I would have CTB already.

Just in case it needs to be said, I'm not trying to be combative here; that's just my two cents.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I personally think that it's only bad to avoid responsibility if you created that responsibility for yourself to begin with (i.e. have a dependent). Otherwise I don't think that avoiding responsibility is a morally bad thing since we never asked to be here to begin with

 

[Forever Sleep]

Why do you have to provide for your close family members though? Why do you have to take care of them?

I'm not saying this is a good thing. In fact, I think it's the more selfish thing to do but I think some parents have children in the hopes they will look after them in old age. A bit like an investment fund. They pay for your upbringing and a good education so you can get a good job and be able to support them in old age. They may even hope you feel obliged to do it because they nursed you through whatever childhood illnesses you went through. Again- not saying that's a good thing.

What were your parents upbringings like? Were they expected to take care of their parents? Was pressure put on them to pull their own weight? I think lots of parents simply replicate the upbringing they had. They accepted it after all. They may not have liked it but they complied so now- they expect you to.

My Dad's the same by the way- he has a very dim view of people who are still living with their parents into adulthood. For them- they see things from the parental perspective- that they put in all that time, money and effort and their children have turned into selfish, grasping freeloaders. (Sorry.) I suppose we see it more from the child's perspective- 'Why the hell did you decide to bring me here and expect me to be happy to comply to all this?'

I do comply because the lecture I'd get would be way worse and I was only too happy to get out of my home environment.

But, as a concept- no, I don't think it's all together bad to say 'no' to something that is being forced on you. It's just whether you can stand to put up with all the guilt tripping and shaming from everyone.

Of course, your parents likely don't want you to be unhappy. They are probably telling themselves the rose tinted narrative that it will be good for you to get out in the world. Get a job, meet new people, have some extra money coming in. But, if you get pushed into it and hate it, they'll also be on hand to tell you how much they hated their jobs too. Like it's part of the course.

Basically- they accepted the rules and they're frustrated that you won't because ultimately- it affects them. It means they won't have the money they thought they would. They may also be genuinely concerned about what will happen to you when they pass away. I'm not sure whether they know you are seriously considering CTB.

Most parents do worry for their children. I think sometimes my Dad does actually feel bad for bringing me here. He doesn't know I'm suicidal exactly but he pretty much knows I hate life. It's kind of hard to hide. He says 'sorry' now and then but ultimately- the damage is done now. We're stuck here. Maybe the charitable thing would be to fund us the rest of our miserable lives but, some parents can't afford that and I think many simply try to mentally wash their hands of just how bad things are. They just want to imagine that we are or could be relatively normal because the truth is probably too distressing. I suspect treating you as a lot of parents treat their kids- ie. 'Get off your butt and earn' is a part of that.