Is humankind on the decline? Are we getting dumber? Is this a global development?

[noname223]

Or does this only apply to the Western world.

Here a summary of my evening.

Surreal and absurd bitch fight in my self-help group once again I need time to process this...

I have the feeling our society spirals downwards. I am not sure what makes people go insane in such a way maybe social media, AI chatbots, polarization, woke vs antiwoke. I really have the feeling we are in a decline in the Western world. There is something going in the real wrong direction. Maybe I should be more hesistant to deduce a diagnosis about modern world. But there is seriously something wrong with many many people I met in my life recently...

You know they all had beef. And I just tried not to become the target. I was silent most of the time and I really struggled to deal with the intense emotions and the toxic atmosphere/dynamic. And in the end someone pretended I simply would not care about all of this. Why am I here anyway? Bro I am mean what is wrong with these people. How can it be that a fucking pro-choice suicide that is demonized by the rest of the internet is my safe haven the place where I feel most accepted and where I feel secure enough to open up. This is madness...


You know in this specific situation one thing struck me. Something you read about polarization.

There was one older man with more conservative views point. Last time he was really pissed and insulted another group member. This person really behaved in an inappropirate. In some ways it was good that finally someone criticizes him. People left the group because of this person and the person makes other people really uncomfortable. But the guy with a more conservative veiewpoint he was really aggressive, offensive, and used worrds that were not appropriate and which escalated the situation.

I have the feeling many participants are hypocrites in this self-help group. Others just ignore how this one member makes everyone also women uncomfortable.

So today they wanted to discuss rules. It didn't feel for my like a rational argument. I had the feeling they used the slogan "we have to talk about rules" to take personal revenge on the conservative guy. At first they tried to remain calm. But they teased him and he wasn't that smart and escalated further. I don't say no one in this group wasn't genuine. But there is a lot of personal animosity and I doubt that the group atmosphere is the highest priority. So everyone who was cool and interesting left the group. The kindest and most honest people didn't want to particpate in this. And in the end all the people who fueled the argument remained. And eventually there was peace. And it felt to me like this was business as usual to them. So everything was fine with teasing each other and causing the most toxic atmosphere ever. And no one intervened. The group organization is a nightmare.

This was just my anecdote for today. But honestly I have the feeling our society in on a decline. I also have this feeling when I text with people online or on dating apps. We are going down. I fear the algorithms have a really negative effect.

Personally, I think there are productive ways how to use chatbots. They are used in science for scientifical progress. But the way most people use AI chatbots we will be in a far worse spot. Personally, I have the feeling we are in a real big crisis or shortly before everything goes down. And the everything bubble will burst. For me it feels like western societies suffer from major demographic issues, economic declline, politicial extremism, a mental health crisis. And now humankind gets a shortterm drug that makes mental issues invisivible, it creates a magical alleged boost of the economy, a potential solution for the demographic problems and the chatbots are framed as technology of educational emancipation and democratization of knowledge. And average people get addicted and emotionally dependent because they have no other supportive community and they are already isolated and alienated. And the most vulnerable people (like me) are the easiast targets. I recently read something in a German newspaper that translated it. I am quite sure it was said in BIll Gates NYT interview. Before I read it I wanted chatGPT's take on it. And it recommended me not to waste my time on the article. At least not the full 25 minutes. In one passage he says something like researchers from Stanford University and Carnegle Mellon University found out people with small social networks are mostly likely looking for company by a chatbot. The more intensive and the more emotional and personal the usage of AI chatbot becomes the worse do these users feel.

It is also part of the living expense crisis. I have the feeling there are benefits of generative AI. I just watched a video of researchers who use AI in mathematics and increasingly in physics. But let's be real most undergraduates and most average students. They are incentivized to outsource their critical thinking. And in the longrun the mental health crisis that was excacerbated by social media, chatbots will most likely make it so much worse.

Personally, I see how dysfunctional I am. A huge part is caused by the way I was raised by my parents but I also have horrible genes. When I look at my country many really smart and kind people plan to leave the country when the extremists take over. And considering polls this is far from unlikely. There are few people who hold this shit together. But more and more of these people become ill and develop conditions because they are the only work force that remains. And the toll on their mental health is too much.
The pool becomes smaller and smaller. And the number of people dependent on help increases. But no AI will save our asses we just have to believe in it. I have the feeling I cannot really contribute to society. I just have to witness how everything goes down and that I will be the first scapegoat. And looking which government programs will be cut I am also the first of the chopping block. There is one thing to add. I think the internet overall improves my life quality. For sure it makes some illness of the modern life more apparant. But my bipolar grandma was her whole life institutionalized. I also feel often isolated from other humans or I have a completely different living situation compared to them. But sometimes the internet like this forum is a window to a world where I can get some comfort, distraction and meaning. But I will stop it here. Of course one also had to differentiate where the internet is the song of a bird that has come to love its cage. Sorry DFW for stealing this quote and adapting it.

 

[Pluto]

 

[pepperfarmer]

I think the economic contradictions of our world are sharpening and normal people are feeling the consequences. The capitalist order is fundamentally built on infinite expansion and growth, but there's only so much you can take from others for a profit.

 

[khora]

Simple answer: yes. And you don't have to "open" your eyes to see it when its under you.

When you live in a system like this, only few things get to coexist and in the summit of that existence, when finding meaning it tends to coincide and counter everything you've been told about the world you were raised in when you indirectly experience it, but even those indirect experiences are part of the whole and a source of something that's very real and imperfect.
Only the flaws becoming more noticable the second time you pay attention to it.

 

[roseblade]

It's definitely changing faster than we can adapt to it. I don't know what's happening worldwide, but from what I know of history people with power and influence are always vying for more, and every now and then they get a fancy new tool that lets them live out their power fantasies for a while. AI is almost certainly going to be used for mass-scale population control and surveillance due to it necessitating fewer people to successfully maintain an authoritarian grip.Wealth has been steadily concentrating since the 70s at least. The rich have always had an attitude of being born to rule over the masses for as long as they have existed, and that attitude isn't going anywhere. No idea where this century is headed, but it's probably nowhere good. Hopefully I won't have to see

 

[Somewhat Suicidal]

You opened quite a few interesting topics lately here, so first I want to congratulate you on that. I always enjoyed reading and answering to your posts, despite not agreeing on everything said.

So today they wanted to discuss rules. It didn't feel for my like a rational argument. I had the feeling they used the slogan "we have to talk about rules" to take personal revenge on the conservative guy. At first they tried to remain calm. But they teased him and he wasn't that smart and escalated further. I don't say no one in this group wasn't genuine. But there is a lot of personal animosity and I doubt that the group atmosphere is the highest priority. So everyone who was cool and interesting left the group. The kindest and most honest people didn't want to particpate in this. And in the end all the people who fueled the argument remained. And eventually there was peace. And it felt to me like this was business as usual to them. So everything was fine with teasing each other and causing the most toxic atmosphere ever. And no one intervened. The group organization is a nightmare.

You describe the mechanisms at work when we talk about cancel culture here in my opinion, which is one of the reasons for this felt decline – that I agree with – that you voiced. In this case and in other cases from what I experienced it interestingly enough also comes with side effect of the kind, honest and interesting people who can't be bothered with this kind of discourse leaving the group altogether, which inherently weakens the group as a whole.

...chatbots are framed as technology of educational emancipation and democratization of knowledge.

While being mostly a bullshit multiplication and self acknowledgement tool to everyone regardless of how misguided the premises of the user are.

But let's be real most undergraduates and most average students. They are incentivized to outsource their critical thinking. And in the longrun the mental health crisis that was excacerbated by social media, chatbots will most likely make it so much worse.

I would argue they were incentivised to do that with social media already and chatbots are just the next escalation step on that ladder. Herd mentality and behaviour is largely encouraged by social media already and even smart people fall victim to it en masse because they lack the competence to still think critically under peer pressure.
A prominent and current example of this is the TikTok fueled fatal misconceptions among mainly women about the Lindsay Clancy case. Even outside that completely delusional bubble almost all you read about it online directly contradicts factual court findings about the case (for example most prominently the fact that she didn't have a psychosis, was offered help several times, even committed herself to a mental health institution just to leave it days later again).
Researching this subject further with AI likely would strengthen the belief in objectively false claims since the internet is full of them and AI does simply reproduce said nonsense absent of any real rational intelligence. But in this case TikTok already does the job, so to speak.

When I look at my country many really smart and kind people plan to leave the country when the extremists take over. And considering polls this is far from unlikely. There are few people who hold this shit together. But more and more of these people become ill and develop conditions because they are the only work force that remains. And the toll on their mental health is too much.
The pool becomes smaller and smaller. And the number of people dependent on help increases. But no AI will save our asses we just have to believe in it. I have the feeling I cannot really contribute to society. I just have to witness how everything goes down and that I will be the first scapegoat. And looking which government programs will be cut I am also the first of the chopping block. There is one thing to add. I think the internet overall improves my life quality. For sure it makes some illness of the modern life more apparant. But my bipolar grandma was her whole life institutionalized. I also feel often isolated from other humans or I have a completely different living situation compared to them. But sometimes the internet like this forum is a window to a world where I can get some comfort, distraction and meaning.

While I can strongly relate to most personal sentiment contained in this passage, I don't think the societal collapse you're painting a picture of is that black and white. I don't think most people who hold shit together are mentally ill to a point that collapse is inevitable or that they are the only work force that remains. It's difficult if not impossible to say any of this for sure tho and we all operate from assumption regarding these questions.

All that being said, I overall share your worries about what is to come, but due to the complexity involved I think it's basically impossible to exactly predict the future and it will almost certainly be different than any of us can imagine right now. Disruptive changes throughout history have proven that time and again and even for every "prophet" being (mostly just somewhat) correct in predicting certain events there were thousands who were wrong, it's just that no one remembers those.

 

[worldsworst]

There are studies that show that using genAI like chatbots and consuming generated media actually makes you dumber so I'm not surprised at the cognitive decline of a lot of people considering how many consume that slop and how much it is pushed onto everybody. Personally I am also incredibly stupid but this is because of my mental issues and probably lack of real social interaction, and not because of AI, or podcast slop, or whatever else because I avoid things like this like the plague...