alizee

alizee

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2018
452
But the OP would agree that the problem is rooted in the brain and not in the groin.
No surgery would help if the mind is in the misery mode...

The real problem is definitely rooted in the brain "gender dysphoria" but if the brain is saying "x" resembling a male is the problem. You fix "x" to resemble female and where it truly is corrected. Thus resulting in the misery that is bothering the brain to go away. The problem of the brain "requiring this change" will never go away but that's not required to fulfill returning happiness to the person and if it's just something surgery can fix. Some people it's that way and surgery makes life the same as being born without gender dysphoria (no desire for suicide). As for others it's not so simple from not being able to give birth as the correct sex. That's likely impossible for medical procedures to fix for many years. In all consideration to everything life should be a choice. A person should be able to choose death if going through surgery is too mentally tough and where a person desires death instead. Nobody should be required to be forced into this situation and which is why OP is totally in the right. Even if we could fix everything people deserve choice.
 
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Sunlight99

Member
Sep 20, 2018
52
When transgenderism started to be discussed more in the mainstream, I happened to be thinking about how people should research controversial topics, especially political ones where people typically already have strong opinions, like abortion or gun control. This type of research relates to my job.

I decided to look at transgenderism as objectively as I could since it was in the news, and I really didn't know much about it. That's not entirely possible, but I tried to approach it without opinions. I sampled information from every catergory of source I could think of — Mainstream left and right wing news, alternative left and right wing news, centrist news, far left, far right, older sources, newer sources, youtube videos made independent of media or organizations featuring transgender people and those against it. I looked at blatant propaganda from both sides, as well as more reasonable sources. I looked at medical information new and old. I weighted everything I read against each other.

I came to the conclusion that it is a mental disorder which shouldn't be encouraged, especially among children. Despite what political activists say, there is a connection between trauma and transgenderism. Not every trans person has experienced trauma, and not everyone who experiences trauma becomes transgender. There is likely some biological aspect involved in at least some cases.

I read numerous accounts of children who figured out through therapy their desire to be the opposite sex came from neglect, fatherlessness, abuse, and autism.

A woman living as a man recently realized that the reason she did so was because she had been repeatedly raped as a child, and thought if she didn't have a vagina she couldn't be hurt. It's a crazy response, but when something so horrific happens to a child, the brain needs to find a way to protect itself.

There is a school with a disproportionate number of trans kids. A teacher said they are all autistic and being coached by other kids into seeing trapped in the wrong body as a way to cope with their autism.

I've read lots of accounts of transgender people who regret it. Activists say it's small, but it's growing. There was a man who was the first person to get his driver license changed to no gender. He had been in the military and got an article celebrating him in a major newspaper. He recently said he realized he is a man, but the same media outlets supporting him then didn't.

I also came to the conclusion that the high suicide rate is not entirely due to discrimination.

A lot of the above information is kept out of mainstream discussions from the left, and education in general, because it's viewed as bigoted.

In the past, I've had a more libertarian attitude toward LGBT issues. I thought just let people do what they want if they don't hurt others. Still, I didn't like how political activists outright deny evidence like above. For example, I always wondered why people who identify as straight now but used to be gay, were not supported by political activists, especially if their motto was Love is Love, and let people love who they want and identify as something different from the mainstream. It didn't seem tolerate.

I try to look into things independently of a political group, and in doing so I came the conclusion that a lot of information presented about transgenderism is false or not the complete story.
 
alizee

alizee

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2018
452
A woman living as a man recently realized that the reason she did so was because she had been repeatedly raped as a child, and thought if she didn't have a vagina she couldn't be hurt. It's a crazy response, but when something so horrific happens to a child, the brain needs to find a way to protect itself.

There is a school with a disproportionate number of trans kids. A teacher said they are all autistic and being coached by other kids into seeing trapped in the wrong body as a way to cope with their autism.

I've read lots of accounts of transgender people who regret it. Activists say it's small, but it's growing. There was a man who was the first person to get his driver license changed to no gender. He had been in the military and got an article celebrating him in a major newspaper. He recently said he realized he is a man, but the same media outlets supporting him then didn't.

Can you supply sources for where you read all this information about other people that gave you this opinion?
I'm doubtful you read anything with a decent sample size but a few cases and where you can find that anywhere in this world.
 
F

Final Escape

I’ve been here too long
Jul 8, 2018
4,348
No, but u desperately need support because without regular talks about this stuff with other people in similar situations in person you will drive yourself crazy with the isolation and feeling alone in the suffering.
 
S

Sunlight99

Member
Sep 20, 2018
52
Can you supply sources for where you read all this information about other people that gave you this opinion?
I'm doubtful you read anything with a decent sample size but a few cases and where you can find that anywhere in this world.

I don't have the links anymore, but these personal stories are endless if you look off the beaten path as I did. I know this likely won't convince you and this is not my goal.

I intentionally did not cite scientific studies because so many studies are flawed and the results can't be reproduced. People have to produce studies to get ahead in their careers, and few people reach the level of having adequate resources to do a proper study. Not all studies are flawed, but people tend to just believe ones that confirm their biases and make them feel good. I avoided studies and read accounts, including from the most passionate trans activists to the most passionate ex trans activists, and everyone in between.

This is one story written by a former non binary person: https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/03/10/i-was-americas-first-non-binary-person-it-was-all-a-sham/

When I was a child, I had gender dysphoria. I later realized it was due to living with intense violence, and feeling like I'd be protected if I was a girl. On the nature side, I was a sensitive, more feminine boy which contributed to it. No one talked me out of it. My parents let me do whatever I wanted as a kid. I was really independent, not religious or conservative. I didn't mind being different as a kid. I figured this out in my 30s on my own, mainly through journaling about my life.

My goal isn't to convince you to not be trans. However, I scrolled through this board and saw that none of the information I presented had been presented. I think at the very least our education system, mainstream media, and popular entertainment should stop excluding stories like this because they don't fit a political agenda and are considered hateful and bigoted.

If you want, you can make a journey to explore this topic yourself and think about who you are on both the nature and nurture side.

I think there will always be transgender people, and some who never want to change, but I think at the very least they should have access to voices from those wanted to change and did.
 
alizee

alizee

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2018
452
If you want, you can make a journey to explore this topic yourself and think about who you are on both the nature and nurture side.

I've already explored the topic myself and which is why I wanted you to list them. I understand it's probably something you wouldn't want to remember with now knowing about your story. I'm sorry you suffered that situation in your life. Nobody should have to go through it and that's awful. Same with the story you linked.

I could only find less than 20 regretful stories when searching over the last several years and throughout my life. Some are worse than the others and I don't really see them as anything different than the ordinary with other life situations. There are so many people in this world. Whatever is the worse thing you can imagine, it probably happened and a few times to different people.

The thing is that most of the horror stories, where someone was able to transition young and turned out to be not transgender. Those stories make me extremely jealous/envious because I didn't get that opportunity and I think is further proof with already being several years in my transition that I'm not one of the cases you listed such as trauma victim. It's possible I suffered trauma to become who I am but that can be said for anyone.
 
Crimsonskye

Crimsonskye

Member
Aug 28, 2018
71
The suicide rate within the transgender community is alarmingly high
 
dandan

dandan

One more attempt on life.
Feb 18, 2019
1,298
While being a transgender is not a reason to ctb... However ...

The suicide rate within the transgender community is alarmingly high

And for me this makes sense and is obvious.

Being a transgender surely increases odds of suicide or ctb. In my case, I mean a guy with my personality, mentality, it would surely be matter, I'm not gay or trans, but if I was I probably wouldn't have the guts of living with such identification issues, specially if the transgender sexual operation weren't as good as expected, and even if it was , and even if it was; the identification issue is too hard for me; I can't even stand identifying myself with mistakes Ive made over life... I identify myself with stupid and not worth for living.... being such stupid person because of mistakes I've made.....
Now ... I therefore can't imagine
dealing with gender mistakes, blaming nature and having operations /surgery in my genitals , is to much for me, to much for my ego/brain/soul to handle.

All of this would increase if I didn't find a partner..... And probably a partner and friends would help ease the pain....

Do trans like relationships with opposite sex trans? Just a thought....
 
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RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Administrator
Jun 12, 2018
2,135
I don't expect anybody to tell me what to do or whether or not I should kill myself, but I just wanted to tell my story and see if I am justified for wanting to die. There's just a lot of pain inside of me and I want to let it out somehow. So here goes.

I'm a 21 year old transgender woman who has actively transitioned to a female both socially and medically for about 2 years. A lot has happened over these years, so much that I can't even recognize myself anymore. It's really scary, looking into the mirror and seeing three different people: the person who I used to be, the person who I want to be, and the person who I physically am. Yet there are very little similarities between them. It's like having no home to return to. You want to be safe and warm living as yourself but you just can't because "yourself" doesn't really exist.

Even worse is there's very little people to relate to about this. A lot of people are rather apprehensive when dealing with trans people. I understand though. It's a lot to ask of people to treat you as the opposite man/woman when you physically aren't. How they react is different too. No one reacts the same way. Some people don't care, others play along, others stare. Yet very little people want to include you in their lives.

Overall, being trans is a very lonely and uncomfortable journey. But I just can't go back to being a man though. It's too painful. And it's too late anyway. Estrogen in a male body has some powerful side effects you can't get rid of (pelvis growth, breast growth, nipple enlargement, etc.) Everything I do just hurts. I feel so trapped as someone who has no self or permanent state of being. I never really asked for all of this pain in my life and I just want it to stop. I just can't take it anymore.

Hello there.

I'm also a transwoman and I can totally relate to your situation and your words describe my experience very well. I started my HRT also 2 years ago, just like you, and I feel exactly the same. I turned from being clearly male and therefore comfortably fitting into one gender to "something else" that is neither male or female anymore. I'm currently in a very weird state between the lines of gender. And that probably was to be expected, my whole body is currently transforming after all. And it will take some time until that transition process is completed, I understand but at the same time, I was expecting more from HRT. I also underestimated the social consequences of being visibly trans a lot and it's haunting me now. It's very difficult. People are treating you differently. Every time I leave the house, I can feel the judgement in their eyes. It's very exhausting. The inability to pass and the social implications of being visibly trans are some of the reasons why I'm in a suicidal state.
And just like you, I don't see a female person in the mirror. I see "something" in the mirror, something really weird. I have some male features. I have a dick. But I'm clearly not male anymore. I'm something "between". And you can't go back anymore in this state, HRT has irreversible effects after 2 years so the only option left is going forward and hoping that you will pass someday. That you can escape this weird transitional state and finally accept yourself. That you will be able to accept yourself in the distant future. And it might happen. The puberty we're going through can last up to 6-8 years, that's the time it takes usually until the estrogen unleashes all of it's effects on the body. Anything can happen in that time. So you're not in a hopeless state at all. Maybe you'll look back in some years and be glad you went through this nightmare because for many trans people, there is light at the end of the tunnel. But I also know of people where this isn't the case. It's a bit like gambling. Either you're lucky with your HRT or you're not. I hope you're one of the people who are.

I understand your pain and I hope you'll be able to accept yourself someday. I hope HRT will turn out to be a good thing for you and I hope you can see yourself in the mirror someday - your true self. I really hope you'll find happiness.

Also I'm sorry for rambling. It became very difficult for me to engage in this forum due to depression. I hope my experience can help you out a little bit though.

@RainAndSadness
They should be able to relate in some way. Maybe you two can talk

Thanks for mentioning me. I'm very sorry about the late response. My depression is really getting to me lately.
 
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alizee

alizee

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2018
452
The puberty we're going through can last up to 6-8 years, that's the time it takes usually until the estrogen unleashes all of it's effects on the body. Anything can happen in that time. So you're not in a hopeless state at all.

Where have you read the 6-8 years bit? The medical papers on transitioning typically state the two year mark is the point of seeing all the changes. Sure you might get more breast growth and even hip growth if you're younger than 25. Everything else is likely the peak at 2 years when it comes to face, skin softness and body hair thinning.
 
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RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Administrator
Jun 12, 2018
2,135
Where have you read the 6-8 years bit? The medical papers on transitioning typically state the two year mark is the point of seeing all the changes. Sure you might get more breast growth and even hip growth if you're younger than 25. Everything else is likely the peak at 2 years when it comes to face, skin softness and body hair thinning.

Well, the regular puberty takes that long and trans-people technically go through a second-puberty if they start their transition after their first puberty. The actual stats may vary for people who start their transition pre-puberty. But I've read about this in some articles and Wikipedia also talks about the duration of HRT here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans..._(male-to-female)#Physical_and_mental_effects

Also I've found this picture once on the internet which seems to be very accurate. And for some things, you simply need to be patient.

9936
 
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Jolene40

Specialist
Oct 6, 2018
370
If you had some sense of community or a group of people in a similar situation whom you could spend most your time with i wonder if you would feel any better.
I know its so much more complex than this. Don't wish to downplay it.

People can be horrid so i imagine its hard going being trans at best of times x
 
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alizee

alizee

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2018
452
Well, the regular puberty takes that long and trans-people technically go through a second-puberty if they start their transition after their first puberty. The actual stats may vary for people who start their transition pre-puberty.

Yah it depends what age you start. If already beyond male puberty it's not going to be anything like starting before puberty. My source for timeline of changes is here: https://www.wpath.org/media/cms/Documents/SOC v7/Standards of Care_V7 Full Book_English.pdf
Letting you know there is both the mtf & ftm info in that document and so you don't get confused.

I guess a person should definitely go more than two years, if they're borderline passing and not passing is the only reason they consider suicide. Not the inability to go through childbirth and struggles in career or love life that come with being transgender. There is obviously no way to know if this is a reason to act on suicide because it's so personal per individual with whatever genetics gave them.

Then there is always the possibility of getting facial & vocal feminization surgeries. It can also become a question of are you alright with your teen years or even your twenties passing you by if you're waiting on correcting your body while saving finances or whatever. I hope it works out for everyone but hopes & dreams are just names for aimless fiction to me at this point. It's more of a feeling that your robbed a good starting point compared to everyone else and some things become unattainable.
 
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AveryConure

AveryConure

Some idiot
May 11, 2018
437
It really shouldn't be but our country is still extremely ass backwards unfortunately.
I've already explored the topic myself and which is why I wanted you to list them. I understand it's probably something you wouldn't want to remember with now knowing about your story. I'm sorry you suffered that situation in your life. Nobody should have to go through it and that's awful. Same with the story you linked.

I could only find less than 20 regretful stories when searching over the last several years and throughout my life. Some are worse than the others and I don't really see them as anything different than the ordinary with other life situations. There are so many people in this world. Whatever is the worse thing you can imagine, it probably happened and a few times to different people.

The thing is that most of the horror stories, where someone was able to transition young and turned out to be not transgender. Those stories make me extremely jealous/envious because I didn't get that opportunity and I think is further proof with already being several years in my transition that I'm not one of the cases you listed such as trauma victim. It's possible I suffered trauma to become who I am but that can be said for anyone.
If I remember right a user named Danni Paradox actually went through a transition and ended up really regretting. I think stories like theirs are extremely rare though.
 
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DepressionsAHo

DepressionsAHo

Heaven gained a new ho
Feb 15, 2019
831
Hello there.

I'm also a transwoman and I can totally relate to your situation and your words describe my experience very well. I started my HRT also 2 years ago, just like you, and I feel exactly the same. I turned from being clearly male and therefore comfortably fitting into one gender to "something else" that is neither male or female anymore. I'm currently in a very weird state between the lines of gender. And that probably was to be expected, my whole body is currently transforming after all. And it will take some time until that transition process is completed, I understand but at the same time, I was expecting more from HRT. I also underestimated the social consequences of being visibly trans a lot and it's haunting me now. It's very difficult. People are treating you differently. Every time I leave the house, I can feel the judgement in their eyes. It's very exhausting. The inability to pass and the social implications of being visibly trans are some of the reasons why I'm in a suicidal state.
And just like you, I don't see a female person in the mirror. I see "something" in the mirror, something really weird. I have some male features. I have a dick. But I'm clearly not male anymore. I'm something "between". And you can't go back anymore in this state, HRT has irreversible effects after 2 years so the only option left is going forward and hoping that you will pass someday. That you can escape this weird transitional state and finally accept yourself. That you will be able to accept yourself in the distant future. And it might happen. The puberty we're going through can last up to 6-8 years, that's the time it takes usually until the estrogen unleashes all of it's effects on the body. Anything can happen in that time. So you're not in a hopeless state at all. Maybe you'll look back in some years and be glad you went through this nightmare because for many trans people, there is light at the end of the tunnel. But I also know of people where this isn't the case. It's a bit like gambling. Either you're lucky with your HRT or you're not. I hope you're one of the people who are.

I understand your pain and I hope you'll be able to accept yourself someday. I hope HRT will turn out to be a good thing for you and I hope you can see yourself in the mirror someday - your true self. I really hope you'll find happiness.

Also I'm sorry for rambling. It became very difficult for me to engage in this forum due to depression. I hope my experience can help you out a little bit though.



Thanks for mentioning me. I'm very sorry about the late response. My depression is really getting to me lately.
Hey no worries mate
Sorry for the "them" I couldn't remember what your preferred pronouns were
Now I know though
You're a woman :)
 

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