Discussion Interesting view on the topic of suicide

[TAW122]

Here is a thread on r/unpopular opinion that talks about why suicide isn't necessarily a bad thing. I do like some of the threads on the subreddit unpopular opinion because it is usually controversial topics and usually doesn't get a lot of flack and censorship (there are limits however, but less strict than many other subreddits around reddit). I like the logic of the guy in that thread. It really drives a good point home.

Life isn't for everybody. I honestly feel personally offended that I can't walk into a doctors office and be given a drug to peacefully die. The only reason suicide isn't normalized is because people don't like to think about it. It's icky. It's "sad." Nobody wants to feel "responsible" for someone else's death, which is complete bullshit. If someone commits suicide, it was them. Why is it that when someone drives drunk and kills someone we place the blame on them, but when they kill themselves later we act like it was the result of mental illness or of being treated badly? Maybe they realized the piece of shit that they were and decided they didn't want to live with themselves.

People are like "Oh, what could I have said or done differently to keep them from ending their own life?" Nothing. It's not your fault, it's theirs. They did it independent of you. It was their decision. It's on them. Nobody asks that question when someone kills someone else. Nobody ever says "Oh, what could I have said or done differently to have kept Rodger from killing Dave?" Nobody says that, and rightfully so, because it had nothing to do with them. We accept the fact that Rodger is a psycho who we should never trust again. Suicide isn't any different.

Really, if an adult wants to end their life shouldn't they have the right to? I don't believe in imposing our values onto other people by saying that their lives are valuable. If our own lives aren't valuable to ourselves, then there's no value at all. Life isn't for everybody. Some people have genuinely terrible lives and have no hope of improving it. That's the truth of the world, and if you don't like it, you're putting your head in the sand. Some of us just have nothing to offer society, and we're just taking up space. Honestly, the only reason I haven't killed myself is because most methods will likely just give me permanent brain damage, or give someone else a mess to clean up. I want to die, but methods not involving the use of guns and bridges are rare.

Suicide is like divorce. It looks bad, but it's actually a good thing. It means their life was a mess, and now it's not. Their pain is over. When your dog is in chronic pain, you put it down because it's the moral thing to do. I guess this is just one more example of people caring more about animals than each other.
I have the same opinion on suicide as I do on abortion. Your body, your choice. You should be allowed to fill your body full of fast food and drugs, you should be allowed to harm yourself, or chemically castrate yourself. Your body is your own fucking property. None of us consented to being born. At the very least, we should be given the option to leave.

Edit; I want to mention that I don't believe parents should commit suicide. Parents didn't come to mind, because it's not common for parents to be suicidal. It's important that I point this out because Y'all are saying that divorce is a false equivalence. It's not. Divorce has a negative impact on children, but for some reason nobody is even considering the idea that people can be married without having kids. This is what I mean when I say that divorce is like suicide - (when you don't have kids) it's a better situation than it was before, otherwise people wouldn't willingly participate in the act.

Now I'm a bit gray on the last point where he discussed about parents committing suicide. I say this because it depends on the kids, if the kid is still young and depends on the parents' support (both financially and emotionally) then it is important to at least help the kid as the parent brought the kid into this world. However, if the kid is all grown up and independent (whether single or have a family of his/her own) then that's different of course.

 

[HGL91]

Yeah, seems like the reddit user has a similar view to many people on this forum.

 

[Jessica5]

I do have a problem with parents of minors committing suicide. Nobody forced you to have sex, not use a condom/birth control pill, etc. In fact, I'll just leave it at nobody forced you to have sex, since condoms and birth control pills do have a very small fail rate.

I don't have a problem with anybody else committing suicide, as long as they've given it some thought.

 

[SinisterKid]

In the ideal world, no one would want to consider suicide as the only option left to them. But we dont live in a ideal world, we live in a very flawed world which is not suitable for everyone. It is my life and if I decide to end it, I should not be locked up for saying so or trying to do so.

I dont know, maybe we are all crazy. But I see more common sense on this forum [common sense in my eyes anyway] than I ever see in the real world.

 

[TAW122]

It also seems like most people don't apply the logic that if someone indirectly causes harm or kills another human being, they aren't viewed as irrational or mentally ill, but rather just evil and sent to prison (or death penalty). However, if someone decides that they had enough with life and want to end it, they are seem as insane, irrational, and/or mentally ill. It is simply a contradiction in my humble opinion, inconsistency, or at least a double standard in society.

@Jessica5 I do agree with you and also that's why I added my two cents after the quoted thread.

 

[RM5998]

The argument you've quoted has a few flaws, but the core reasoning is pretty damn sound. A second statement that can be added for clarity is that the choice to CTB does not need to be universally understandable or justifiable. There is a case to be made about drawing lines when people have dependencies like children (which for me is a part of a different, bigger problem), but if X decides to CTB, they shouldn't have to justify their choice to anyone.

 

[calendulo]

I did read it. it's a personal experience and seems to me good substantiate under p.o.v. of a right to die supporter. I do unerstand his reasons....and are powerful.

But, the arguments about relationship between suicide and divorce and abortion. That kind of comparison.

Imho I think it is an absurd. It's like an equation whether always the result is dead yourself, nobody cares about the value of the variables. Do not matter anything. Thoughts are freestyle.

Guess will be hints.

 

[Soul]

Nobody forced you to have sex

Unless of course someone did.

 

[RM5998]

I agree it should be a choice, but my god...imagine if Rosa Parks had that option? Or the Dali Lama? Neil Armstrong, ....very slippery thinking. I get that a lot of people don't give a shit about anything BUT themselves and their needs, I've been there too..but I know that significant people have changed my life and my thinking, which in turn helps me cope with my ideation and desire, which in turn allows me to endure each fucked up day one at a time until I can go threw with it.
No, I don't think it's as black and white as choice.

I don't see why enduring anything is necessary. Could you elaborate?

 

[not_a_robot]

I am so turned on right now. If a guy said that to me as a marriage proposal, I'd say "Yes, please!"

 

[not_a_robot]

I agree it should be a choice, but my god...imagine if Rosa Parks had that option? Or the Dali Lama? Neil Armstrong, ....very slippery thinking. I get that a lot of people don't give a shit about anything BUT themselves and their needs, I've been there too..but I know that significant people have changed my life and my thinking, which in turn helps me cope with my ideation and desire, which in turn allows me to endure each fucked up day one at a time until I can go threw with it.
No, I don't think it's as black and white as choice.

Ah, the old worn-out "slippery slope" argument against choice.
"But, but but, what if *your mom* had made the choice of abortion???" usually comes next, if you want to do the whole Anti-choice Repertoire.

 

[not_a_robot]

Is there a single person in history that you admire for what they have contributed to mankind? There have been, and are exceptional people who have changed the lives of everyone around them, selflessness and passion for other people.
My point being, some of the most influences people in history have had moments in their life where they hurt so bad they wanted to die, they got past it and went on to do more great things....for the benefit of others. If they could just walk into a drug store, buy a pill and lights out, we would have missed something.
Do you believe that people who have sacrificed sooo much standing up for their rights in the LGBT communities, some their own lives, have made huge difference for the next generation? What if one of those people could of made a difference in your life? Or someone you love?
Pain can be temporary for some people, a chemistry imbalance that is a scientific fact, that causes severe situational depression.
You can handle more pain than you realize, and your right...no one should have to hurt so badly that all they want is peace. I agree with you, and that's what changed my opinion of the whole god bullshit, but I do care about other people.

Right right, people *owe* it to the entire human race to stay alive and do "good things"! Influence generations! Every suicidal person is a Gandhi, a Dalai Lama, a JESUS!
Because *every* human life is such a precious miracle! A precious, holy miracle that happens every time careless drunk people fuck without a condom.

Could YOU elaborate?

No need for hostility. Your obviously missing the point, the world doesn't revolve around you, and what you need...get over it.

Yes, all suicidal people think the world revolves around us, don't we?
I liked this song better when it was called "Suicide is selfish!"
Do that version. Haven't heard that one yet today.
If you want to spread pro-life propaganda, please be less of a stereotype when doing so. We've heard this obtuse nonsense all before, and nobody was impressed.

But hey, you tried. A for effort.
Maybe you'll have better luck shaming some other users here for their suicidal ideations.

 

[RM5998]

Is there a single person in history that you admire for what they have contributed to mankind? There have been, and are exceptional people who have changed the lives of everyone around them, selflessness and passion for other people.
My point being, some of the most influences people in history have had moments in their life where they hurt so bad they wanted to die, they got past it and went on to do more great things....for the benefit of others. If they could just walk into a drug store, buy a pill and lights out, we would have missed something.
Do you believe that people who have sacrificed sooo much standing up for their rights in the LGBT communities, some their own lives, have made huge difference for the next generation? What if one of those people could of made a difference in your life? Or someone you love?
Pain can be temporary for some people, a chemistry imbalance that is a scientific fact, that causes severe situational depression.
You can handle more pain than you realize, and your right...no one should have to hurt so badly that all they want is peace. I agree with you, and that's what changed my opinion of the whole god bullshit, but I do care about other people.

Is it more important for great people to further mankind than be at peace with themselves? Yes, we would miss out on stuff, but isn't that reasoning essentially holding people hostage and disregarding their suffering?

 

[FF777]

Maybe we can find some common ground between these two view-points..

It is great that there were people in history that wanted to struggle through hardships in order to do things that they saw as progressing a noble cause for humanity.. Some people are more altruistic than other people, and that is their prerogative.. If they consider what they are doing for mankind as a higher priority than their own personal wellbeing, then that is their own right, and they can continue their fight for as long as they desire, and I can admire what they are doing to try to help other people..

However, in my opinion, they should never be forced to do such things if they truly don't want to.. Those people might have had strong spirits and been able to power through the pain and suffering and still mentally persevere with out breaking.. But not every person can be so strong, and if the burden of their cause is beginning to crush the last will to live that their spirit holds, I could not blame them for wanting to seek solace in some form or an other, even if it is an extreme form such as suicide.. Again, that is their prerogative..

Which ever path a person chooses to go down......whether they choose to be altruistic and put society at a higher priority, or whether they choose to put their own wellbeing at a higher priority, I think it should ultimately be their choice alone..

Have we lost some people that could have ended up changing the world in a net-positive way?.. Sure I suppose.. But so what?.. The world isn't perfect but that is fine.. I would never want to force any one to continue struggling to live if they really don't want to, solely on the premise of "well there is technically a chance you could end up doing great things for society, so you are not allowed to seek peace from your suffering"..