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Goodbye710

Student
Jul 12, 2020
163
I've tried using the exit bag and it's impossible for me. However, a scuba mask with an exit bag with nitrogen would probably work for me.

My question is does anyone see any problems with this setup. Maybe too much CO2? Or maybe accidentally ripping the bag on the scuba mask during convulsions?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
W

WearyOfStruggling

Male, 54
May 23, 2020
117
I've tried using the exit bag and it's impossible for me. However, a scuba mask with an exit bag with nitrogen would probably work for me.

My question is does anyone see any problems with this setup. Maybe too much CO2? Or maybe accidentally ripping the bag on the scuba mask during convulsions?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I'm curious - why do you say an exit bag would be impossible for you?
I see from your previous posts that you have challenges with breathing and your heart - is it related to either of those, or something else?

I don't know anything about SCUBA equipment, but I would just caution against using a SCUBA mask and regulator without proper knowledge and training specific to delivering inert gas for ctb, because SCUBA was designed for breathing compressed air (or in some specific deep water applications, oxygen mixed with helium), underwater, while fully conscious, so I hope one would carefully understand how such equipment would be used to deliver pure nitrogen, helium, or argon, above water in the atmosphere, while unconscious, at the correct flow rate to prevent CO2 from being inhaled.

I do know that inert gas cylinders have a specific type of fitting, for instance CGA 580 in the USA, and I believe a SCUBA air tank may have a different type of fitting, so either an adapter would be needed to connect the SCUBA hose to the inert gas cylinder, or the SCUBA tank will need to be filled with inert gas, and it would be nearly impossible to find a gas supplier to do so.
 
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Goodbye710

Student
Jul 12, 2020
163
Thanks for the response. I have tried multiple times fainting in a plastic bag tied around my neck. The co2 for me, most likely because of my condition wasn't as much of a problem but I do get agitated easily because of my heart failure. The plastic bag does start to get around my mouth or would start to crinkle around my head giving me a problem and I would pull it off.

I even tried the Korean Collar with bag and it wasn't good for me.

I know I would be one of the failed attempts who passes out but wakes up later with the bag pulled away for some reason. With a scuba mask over my head I think I'd be ok.
 
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WearyOfStruggling

Male, 54
May 23, 2020
117
Thanks for the response. I have tried multiple times fainting in a plastic bag tied around my neck. The co2 for me, most likely because of my condition wasn't as much of a problem but I do get agitated easily because of my heart failure. The plastic bag does start to get around my mouth or would start to crinkle around my head giving me a problem and I would pull it off.

I even tried the Korean Collar with bag and it wasn't good for me.

I know I would be one of the failed attempts who passes out but wakes up later with the bag pulled away for some reason. With a scuba mask over my head I think I'd be ok.
Bear in mind that with a steady flow of gas into the bag, it will remain inflated, which will tend to keep it away from the face and head. I think CO2 buildup when breathing into just a bag without gas flow should eventually cause problems due to hypercapnia for anyone, regardless of their breathing condition. I don't have any medical expertise, but I just don't see how anyone can lose consciousness breathing into a simple closed bag. In the end everyone must decide for themselves, but I personally wouldn't try to predict how one may respond to using a bag with inert gas flow based on the experience of trying to use just the bag alone.
 
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rancho

Student
Jul 21, 2020
144
How long does it take to go unconscious and then to die? I've seen some really different numbers regarding the 2nd part. Maybe it depends what gas?
 
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OnlyTheWind

OnlyTheWind

Serena / Meatball head
Aug 29, 2020
962
How long does it take to go unconscious and then to die?

Under a minute at most to go unconscious and reasonable to assume up to 10 minutes till death. Following is a snippet from an article:

"Ogden et al. conducted studies of four cases of assisted suicide by oxygen deprivation using helium. The estimated time from the moment of inhalation until loss of consciousness ranged from 36 to 55 s, with death occurring after about 5–10 min in 3 cases and after 40 min in the fourth case. The authors explain the outlier case by improper adjustment of the face mask and seepage of oxygen from the air into the apparatus. The oxygen concentration was sufficient to sustain basic life functions. In two other cases described by Ogden, loss of consciousness occurred after, respectively, 10 and 12 s from inhalation of helium. In the first case, death occurred almost 9 min thereafter, while in the second case it occurred after just over 11 min."
 
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rancho

Student
Jul 21, 2020
144
Under a minute at most to go unconscious and reasonable to assume up to 10 minutes till death. Following is a snippet from an article:

"Ogden et al. conducted studies of four cases of assisted suicide by oxygen deprivation using helium. The estimated time from the moment of inhalation until loss of consciousness ranged from 36 to 55 s, with death occurring after about 5–10 min in 3 cases and after 40 min in the fourth case. The authors explain the outlier case by improper adjustment of the face mask and seepage of oxygen from the air into the apparatus. The oxygen concentration was sufficient to sustain basic life functions. In two other cases described by Ogden, loss of consciousness occurred after, respectively, 10 and 12 s from inhalation of helium. In the first case, death occurred almost 9 min thereafter, while in the second case it occurred after just over 11 min."

Thanks...........Would the same apply to argon?
 
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pthnrdnojvsc

pthnrdnojvsc

Extreme Pain is much worse than people know
Aug 12, 2019
3,310
How long does it take to go unconscious and then to die? I've seen some really different numbers regarding the 2nd part. Maybe it depends what gas?

Slide21.png




How nitrogen kills

Nitrogen is an inert gas — meaning it doesn't chemically react with other gases — and it isn't toxic. But breathing pure nitrogen is deadly. That's because the gas displaces oxygen in the lungs. Unconsciousness can occur within one or two breaths, according to the U.S. Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board.

Nitrogen inhalation doesn't cause the same panicked feeling that suffocation does, because the person continues to exhale carbon dioxide. Rising carbon dioxide in the blood is what triggers the respiratory system to breath. These levels are also responsible for the burning and pain that happens when you hold your breath for too long. Because the carbon dioxide levels in the blood never rise with nitrogen inhalation, these symptoms don't occur.
Hypoxia, or a lack of oxygen, kills pretty quickly. According to the U.S. National Library of Medicine, brain cells start dying within 5 minutes of oxygen deprivation starting. Death follows rapidly.



In the report favoring nitrogen as an execution method supplied to Oklahoma state legislators in 2015, the authors cited a 1961 study. That research found that human volunteers who hyperventilated, or rapidly breathed, pure nitrogen fell unconscious within 20 seconds.
 
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OnlyTheWind

OnlyTheWind

Serena / Meatball head
Aug 29, 2020
962
Thanks...........Would the same apply to argon?

From Wikipedia:

"At oxygen concentrations [in air] of 4 to 6%, there is loss of consciousness in 40 seconds and death within a few minutes".

By the sounds of it, the argon wouldn't even need to be 100% pure to do the job.
 
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Greenberg

Greenberg

nitrogenexit.blogspot.com
Jun 28, 2020
1,062

Slide21.png




How nitrogen kills

Nitrogen is an inert gas — meaning it doesn't chemically react with other gases — and it isn't toxic. But breathing pure nitrogen is deadly. That's because the gas displaces oxygen in the lungs. Unconsciousness can occur within one or two breaths, according to the U.S. Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board.

Nitrogen inhalation doesn't cause the same panicked feeling that suffocation does, because the person continues to exhale carbon dioxide. Rising carbon dioxide in the blood is what triggers the respiratory system to breath. These levels are also responsible for the burning and pain that happens when you hold your breath for too long. Because the carbon dioxide levels in the blood never rise with nitrogen inhalation, these symptoms don't occur.
Hypoxia, or a lack of oxygen, kills pretty quickly. According to the U.S. National Library of Medicine, brain cells start dying within 5 minutes of oxygen deprivation starting. Death follows rapidly.



In the report favoring nitrogen as an execution method supplied to Oklahoma state legislators in 2015, the authors cited a 1961 study. That research found that human volunteers who hyperventilated, or rapidly breathed, pure nitrogen fell unconscious within 20 seconds.
Thank you for the reference, I will include the salient points on my blog. Cheers.
 
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F

FromGermany

Specialist
Oct 23, 2021
336
From Wikipedia:

"At oxygen concentrations [in air] of 4 to 6%, there is loss of consciousness in 40 seconds and death within a few minutes".
That also means, with a concentration round about of 4 to 6 % one will regain consciousness. This is the most critical part of this method.

Top 3 classic failures with exit bag are process interrupted by another person, running out of gas and the hose flops out of the bag.

Two of 3 can be avoided with the perfect Scuba set.
 
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