Imagining the Dead as ghosts

[noname223]

I once posted a thread about ghosts when reading David Foster Wallace's Infinite Jest.

There were two incidents where I thought about ghosts recently.

Spoiler alert for the newest One Piece chapter: 3...2....1....here we go.

So in the newest chapter there is a hint to the end of One Piece it might be bittersweet. This is at least a theory I heard from a Youtuber. (GrandlineReview)
There might be a death people will rejoice. As once with Gol D. Roger but maybe just with Luffy. Maybe a too controversial end for One Piece. But there is something really interesting. The cover o the newest Weekly Shonen Jump issue was a ghost from Luffy. Even though it was rather disconnected to the chapter even though Luffy is in immiment danger.

I wonder whether I will still live when the ends of One Piece or Detective Conan (Case closed) will be published. I followed both since I was pretty young.

Second time where I thought about ghosts. That's hard to explain. There is a small window in my apartment that seperates two rooms. And due to a gust of wind the window opened itself. And my mom replied that might have been grandma (my grandma died some weeks ago and it hit my mom hard). The day my grandma died I tried to comfort my mother. And she told me how mysterious death was and she wonders whether grandma is currently flying over us.

I am not sure how to categorize that. Maybe magical thinking, superstition, religious sentiments, coping mechanisms. But it made me think for today. What if my grandma really watched me in my apartment since her death. Would she now know about my suicide attempt in 2024. Though, this is almost impossible she doesn't understand English so she cannot read what I am posting on here. This is in some way a joke. Because many people imagine a ghost as omnipresent but is it all all-knowing? I mean there some tropes associated with ghosts. But how accurate are they if we don't have proof for them?

Personally, I would not want to become a ghost. It would be a sad existence being able to watch people without talking to them. And I also don't like the notion of haunting people. Many people desire immortality or a life beyond death. For me that sounds horrifying. And I also would feel bad having to watch all the people when they learn about my suicide. At least for the people who really mean much to me. I imagine how the message would spread. But for me this should be independent of the decision itself.

 

[ZwartHartje]

I don't know anything about the movies (?) you mentioned.

That said, we are embodied consciousness. At death, we are losing our bodies - or breaking free from them is more the way I see it. There is so far only some empirical evidence for it, from NDEs. But it feels very true to me, the way it ought to be, like some forgotten memory almost.
The term "ghost" is mostly used for apparitions, the actual being or soul is more commonly called the spirit. I don't think spirits are all-knowing, but knowing a great deal more than we can with our embodied brains. There is less separation, knowledge is thus more easily accessible.

I don't think it will be such a sad existence as you imagine - you wouldn't just dwell lonely among the living here while they'd be unable to see you - there's a whole world beyond, where countless other beings reside. You could decide where to go and what to look at. You don't have to attend your own funeral or anything. You might be able to if you *want* to. But just like it is here: if there's a planned gathering of your family or friends, you can decide not to show up. Someone sends you a letter or an email, you can decide not to read it. I think when we're in spirit we'll have *more* freedom of choice, not less.

Personally I can't imagine that my own prison - my physical life and body - might be all that I'll ever have been. I firmly believe that freedom is possible and real.

That said, I had some very weird incidents happening too. It's being said that spirits can interact or interfere with electronics.
So one thing that happened only a few nights ago, I woke up and thought, damn, it must be late, it's already light outside! I opened my eyes and found that it was my bedside lamp though. I switched it off with the little remote control and went back to sleep, as it was only around midnight. Then I woke up in the morning, saw another errant light shining from around the corner. I got up and found that it was the lamp next to my desk that was on now.
I have to state at this point that most of my lights (and I have many) are the ones you can set to various different colors via some little remote controls, and they can also be turned on and off by remote control, so they might be easier to tamper with than some more old-fashioned lamps.

Another weird thing that happened over a year ago was that my alarm clock went off at midnight one night, for no apparent reason, and then only a couple nights later a *different* alarm clock across the room went off, also at midnight! Needless to say, these are regular, battery-operated alarm clocks that have no connection between them at all.
I've lost many, many loved ones, but they were nutrias, not humans. While embodied, these little animals certainly don't understand anything about electronics. But it might have been some different being(s), possibly spirit guides, demons, or who knows - ?

 

[noname223]

I don't think it will be such a sad existence as you imagine - you wouldn't just dwell lonely among the living here while they'd be unable to see you - there's a whole world beyond, where countless other beings reside. You could decide where to go and what to look at. You don't have to attend your own funeral or anything. You might be able to if you *want* to. But just like it is here: if there's a planned gathering of your family or friends, you can decide not to show up. Someone sends you a letter or an email, you can decide not to read it. I think when we're in spirit we'll have *more* freedom of choice, not less.

Personally I can't imagine that my own prison - my physical life and body - might be all that I'll ever have been. I firmly believe that freedom is possible and real.

I think in general your post is very interesting and it seems like you have far more knowledge than me on this issue. But the things you elaborated in this quote feel weird to me.

It doesn't really resemble my understanding of life and death. I think having all the freedom you desire won't guarantee that you will be happy. In this ghost scenario it seems even more evident for me. "You could decide where to go and what to look at" or "I think when we're in spirit we'll have *more* freedom of choice, not less." I think having more freedom of choice could be difficult. I give one example. If you remain yourself as ghost or spirit with the same personality you will be still very attached to your loved one's emotionally. And the feeliings for your loved ones make you yourself. Maybe you can choose to turn that off. But imagine you die. Would you be able just to move on. Would you be able to look away from the heartbreak your loved one's will feel attending your funeral. Humans don't necessarily choose what is good for their own happiness when it comes to such issues. Having more freedom can also imply a higher risk to expose you to situations that feel bad for you. Having so many options as ghost or spirit could also backfire. Parents who would follow their children until they die. Having to see them suffering without intervening. And there are many horrible stories this forum is proof for that. Imagine your dead relatives were able to follow us. Could they actually look away when life drives us to commit suicide. In some ways all the options you describe you will have as ghost or spirit sound for me like another prison just in a different form.

 

[ZwartHartje]

I think in general your post is very interesting and it seems like you have far more knowledge than me on this issue. But the things you elaborated in this quote feel weird to me.

It doesn't really resemble my understanding of life and death. I think having all the freedom you desire won't guarantee that you will be happy. In this ghost scenario it seems even more evident for me. "You could decide where to go and what to look at" or "I think when we're in spirit we'll have *more* freedom of choice, not less." I think having more freedom of choice could be difficult. I give one example. If you remain yourself as ghost or spirit with the same personality you will be still very attached to your loved one's emotionally. And the feeliings for your loved ones make you yourself. Maybe you can choose to turn that off. But imagine you die. Would you be able just to move on. Would you be able to look away from the heartbreak your loved one's will feel attending your funeral. Humans don't necessarily choose what is good for their own happiness when it comes to such issues. Having more freedom can also imply a higher risk to expose you to situations that feel bad for you. Having so many options as ghost or spirit could also backfire. Parents who would follow their children until they die. Having to see them suffering without intervening. And there are many horrible stories this forum is proof for that. Imagine your dead relatives were able to follow us. Could they actually look away when life drives us to commit suicide. In some ways all the options you describe you will have as ghost or spirit sound for me like another prison just in a different form.

Well, for me personally that's easy since my loved ones are all dead, and I don't have any human relatives.
That aside, yes there probably will still be challenges, but you'll be neither alone nor in the same state of being as you were in this physical life. Many limitations will fall away. Time falls away. They say that tie is very different on the Other Side.
Personally I've always wondered, what if time had three dimensions as space does, instead of being one-dimensional, linear? What if you could move freely in time as yo can in space, in any direction? I think much of our suffering here is caused by linear time and being trapped in it, being confined to this one moment in time which is "now", and if you happen to be in terrible pain right now then yo can't escape this "now". But looking back at your life as a memory you can still say, yes I was in horrible pain back then, but it's over and I don't need to face that now.
I think it may be similar with the lives of your loved ones who are still alive. You'll be able to view their lives as a whole, you can see the moments they had to face immense pain or heartbreak, but you can see the whole picture and you don't need to dwell on the moments of their pain, even though you know they will have too live through those moments as through everything else.

I can also only speculate on this as I'm also not being there yet. I often compare it to being a little kid who wants to be an astronaut, but he can't really know what it's like to be an actual astronaut, or to be an adult at all for that matter. He won't know what it's like until he gets there himself, growing up to be an adult and perhaps even an astronaut, and only then will he really know what it's like and he'll probably think, "what foolish ideas I had of it when I was a child."

 

[Pluto]