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ceserasera

Member
Dec 17, 2021
68
Please read until the end, and please help me. To be clear, I don't feel very strongly about any individual on this site. I think it has its problems with extreme views and bullies. But you can make of it what you want, and for me it's been the only place to be seen. The irony is that I'm anonymous. What does that tell you? It tells you that regardless of what anyone says, people will always judge, the content of your words is determined by everything other than your words. Your character is what people have written about you on paper. You morality is ascertained by senior people who've never met you. The 'narrative' is not yours. It never has been and it never will be. These last few years I've been galvanised by anger, I've gotten up in the morning purely out of spite. The sense of injustice at not being able to tell my own story, it gave me a focus. But everyone has their limits. That's the mistake people have made about me. They thought because of my anger I must be invincible.

Recently I've been trying to salvage my degree. I spent all of last year just floating through every day high on amphetamines. But then that stopped working because whenever it wore off or I didn't take it, I felt like I was dying. I just wanted to escape that endless feeling of impending doom. It's unbearable. I hate thinking about my parents dying all the time. I hate that I can't hug them without getting images of them dying slow, painful deaths and it being all my fault. Whenever I get really angry, usually because someone has said or done something that to other people maybe wouldn't be a big deal, but to me, I'm not so much angry at what they've done, im angry that I'm feeling unimaginable pain and I don't know what to do with it. I get so angry because every slight feels like a personal attack, every word and facial expression feels like a bullet to my chest. I hate it because I feel so stuck, I can't recognise my face, I hate it here and yet I'm stuck. And then when I ask for help I get told 'what does "help" look like?' as professionals proceed…not to help. It makes me want to shred my skin off, just let the ground fall from beneath me. It's scary not knowing who you are, feeling like a fraud wherever you go. It's scary not recognising your own face, trying to stop your parents dying, existing in this world when nobody understands, when you can't trust anyone.

I decided to live for myself. I decided that I wanted to build a future for myself, I wanted to be useful, I wanted to help others never feel the way I've felt. I want fairness and truth and honesty and autonomy. I'm always rooting for the underdog. The borderline obsessive attention to detail I possess, that people use to call me unreasonable, I was going to use that to be a lawyer, to make give everyone their chance to control the narrative. Because that's what the law is. It's a story that chops and changes depending on who tells it and who tells it best. So why not play people at their own game? I've worked with different charities for a while, but you're always on the outside asking people to listen. As a lawyer, the law is your device. You can shape it however you think you can argue. But anyway, I've gotten through over half of my assignments needed to pass this year with at least a 2:1. I just started getting my momentum back, realising that I can and do want this, and I'm good at it. I was seeing a new team of mental health professionals who I was still unsure of, but beginning to feel ok about. But it was always fragile. Every day is a battle and any little thing could knock me off.

And just like that, one letter completely threw me. And now I don't care again. And this time I'm done. The reason I mentioned having control of your own 'narrative' earlier is because this letter told me that I didn't have 'narrative competence', meaning I didn't buy into the narrative that they keep pushing, where I'm a horrible person and I've caused all the problems in my life. When you spend every day trying to establish who you are, what you like, what you are like, being told you're essentially an abusive waste of resources with no self-awareness, oh and you're a liar - well, that does something to you. Every day I'm trying to rebuild my sense of self and something, or someone, always comes in and bulldozes their way through it. I'm not rebuilding again. It hurts too much.
I'm not here to say goodbye or talk about anything profound, or spell out the pain I feel, because I've learnt that that means nothing. Because the problem has never been about people knowing you're in pain. Loads of people are. It's about who matters.

I'm here because I need you to help me reclaim the narrative just this once. I'm trying to figure out if people will support me. Tomorrow (3/06/2022) I'm going to get the last word, I'm going to make it clear that I won't continue to exist in this world where at the same time I'm told I have capacity, I'm denied all control over my narrative. Stories matter, words matter. They matter so much because they can shatter people's souls with one wrong move.

Everyone here knows what I mean. I'm tired of it all, but saying 'I'm going to kill myself' feels so pathetic. I just want to go quietly. Ironically, it feels like for the first time in so many months the fog that's been following me around has lifted, the heaviness in my chest has eased. I think it's the clearest I've ever thought. There's no anger anymore, just exasperation, fatigue and despair.

This evening I'll post something. Tomorrow (3/06/2022) I'd appreciate people helping my story be heard. It's nothing dramatic, just a response that I'm being denied. Has anyone else had experience of being sent an official letter and being gagged by way of being gagged and told you you will be labelled an 'unreasonably persistent complainant' if you try and reply. That's how you know you have no control over anything. It's abusive. It will be clear when I post the letter. For context, it's a letter from an NHS trust (UK) telling me that Im the problem, I'm a horrible person, and everything is my fault. Except I'm not a horrible person because to them I'm not a human being at all. I won't, after everything I've been through, be forced to swallow a story about me that's so far from the truth, by people who know nothing about me beyond the paper version of myself that they've created.

I have thoughts and feeling, and likes and dislikes. I've been trying to find my way in the world but I don't think I have a place.

Anyway, please, if I say my piece tonight, will people make sure that others know? Just copy and paste, screenshot or whatever. I'll tell you who to tag. Then, even after I'm gone, at least my reality is out there. I've worked at a homelessness charity for a few months now, and these are people that live and die in silence, invisible to the rest of society. Some quite literally have no proof of who they are, rendering them irrelevant to the world. So next time someone tries to tell you that you matter, or that there are good people in the world, or that you have control over your life and your story, remember that there are plenty of people who are born, live and die in irrelevance.
 
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TheLastFemaphrodyke

TheLastFemaphrodyke

Student
May 25, 2022
130
Please read until the end, and please help me. To be clear, I don't feel very strongly about any individual on this site. I think it has its problems with extreme views and bullies. But you can make of it what you want, and for me it's been the only place to be seen. The irony is that I'm anonymous. What does that tell you? It tells you that regardless of what anyone says, people will always judge, the content of your words is determined by everything other than your words. Your character is what people have written about you on paper. You morality is ascertained by senior people who've never met you. The 'narrative' is not yours. It never has been and it never will be. These last few years I've been galvanised by anger, I've gotten up in the morning purely out of spite. The sense of injustice at not being able to tell my own story, it gave me a focus. But everyone has their limits. That's the mistake people have made about me. They thought because of my anger I must be invincible.

Recently I've been trying to salvage my degree. I spent all of last year just floating through every day high on amphetamines. But then that stopped working because whenever it wore off or I didn't take it, I felt like I was dying. I just wanted to escape that endless feeling of impending doom. It's unbearable. I hate thinking about my parents dying all the time. I hate that I can't hug them without getting images of them dying slow, painful deaths and it being all my fault. Whenever I get really angry, usually because someone has said or done something that to other people maybe wouldn't be a big deal, but to me, I'm not so much angry at what they've done, im angry that I'm feeling unimaginable pain and I don't know what to do with it. I get so angry because every slight feels like a personal attack, every word and facial expression feels like a bullet to my chest. I hate it because I feel so stuck, I can't recognise my face, I hate it here and yet I'm stuck. And then when I ask for help I get told 'what does "help" look like?' as professionals proceed…not to help. It makes me want to shred my skin off, just let the ground fall from beneath me. It's scary not knowing who you are, feeling like a fraud wherever you go. It's scary not recognising your own face, trying to stop your parents dying, existing in this world when nobody understands, when you can't trust anyone.

I decided to live for myself. I decided that I wanted to build a future for myself, I wanted to be useful, I wanted to help others never feel the way I've felt. I want fairness and truth and honesty and autonomy. I'm always rooting for the underdog. The borderline obsessive attention to detail I possess, that people use to call me unreasonable, I was going to use that to be a lawyer, to make give everyone their chance to control the narrative. Because that's what the law is. It's a story that chops and changes depending on who tells it and who tells it best. So why not play people at their own game? I've worked with different charities for a while, but you're always on the outside asking people to listen. As a lawyer, the law is your device. You can shape it however you think you can argue. But anyway, I've gotten through over half of my assignments needed to pass this year with at least a 2:1. I just started getting my momentum back, realising that I can and do want this, and I'm good at it. I was seeing a new team of mental health professionals who I was still unsure of, but beginning to feel ok about. But it was always fragile. Every day is a battle and any little thing could knock me off.

And just like that, one letter completely threw me. And now I don't care again. And this time I'm done. The reason I mentioned having control of your own 'narrative' earlier is because this letter told me that I didn't have 'narrative competence', meaning I didn't buy into the narrative that they keep pushing, where I'm a horrible person and I've caused all the problems in my life. When you spend every day trying to establish who you are, what you like, what you are like, being told you're essentially an abusive waste of resources with no self-awareness, oh and you're a liar - well, that does something to you. Every day I'm trying to rebuild my sense of self and something, or someone, always comes in and bulldozes their way through it. I'm not rebuilding again. It hurts too much.
I'm not here to say goodbye or talk about anything profound, or spell out the pain I feel, because I've learnt that that means nothing. Because the problem has never been about people knowing you're in pain. Loads of people are. It's about who matters.

I'm here because I need you to help me reclaim the narrative just this once. I'm trying to figure out if people will support me. Tomorrow (3/06/2022) I'm going to get the last word, I'm going to make it clear that I won't continue to exist in this world where at the same time I'm told I have capacity, I'm denied all control over my narrative. Stories matter, words matter. They matter so much because they can shatter people's souls with one wrong move.

Everyone here knows what I mean. I'm tired of it all, but saying 'I'm going to kill myself' feels so pathetic. I just want to go quietly. Ironically, it feels like for the first time in so many months the fog that's been following me around has lifted, the heaviness in my chest has eased. I think it's the clearest I've ever thought. There's no anger anymore, just exasperation, fatigue and despair.

This evening I'll post something. Tomorrow (3/06/2022) I'd appreciate people helping my story be heard. It's nothing dramatic, just a response that I'm being denied. Has anyone else had experience of being sent an official letter and being gagged by way of being gagged and told you you will be labelled an 'unreasonably persistent complainant' if you try and reply. That's how you know you have no control over anything. It's abusive. It will be clear when I post the letter. For context, it's a letter from an NHS trust (UK) telling me that Im the problem, I'm a horrible person, and everything is my fault. Except I'm not a horrible person because to them I'm not a human being at all. I won't, after everything I've been through, be forced to swallow a story about me that's so far from the truth, by people who know nothing about me beyond the paper version of myself that they've created.

I have thoughts and feeling, and likes and dislikes. I've been trying to find my way in the world but I don't think I have a place.

Anyway, please, if I say my piece tonight, will people make sure that others know? Just copy and paste, screenshot or whatever. I'll tell you who to tag. Then, even after I'm gone, at least my reality is out there. I've worked at a homelessness charity for a few months now, and these are people that live and die in silence, invisible to the rest of society. Some quite literally have no proof of who they are, rendering them irrelevant to the world. So next time someone tries to tell you that you matter, or that there are good people in the world, or that you have control over your life and your story, remember that there are plenty of people who are born, live and die in irrelevance.
I am confused, the date you state of ending your life is March 6, yet you just posted this. Are you still here? Are you okay? How are you doing?
 
C

ceserasera

Member
Dec 17, 2021
68
I am confused, the date you state of ending your life is March 6, yet you just posted this. Are you still here? Are you okay? How are you doing?
I'm from the UK, so we write the date this way round - 03/06, meaning 3rd June
 
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Smart No More

Visionary
May 5, 2021
2,734
I can relate to medical records being biased in the view of the writer. My medical records since I got ill don't represent me at all and it may as well be another person. Any attempt to address that was met with very defensive response and over reactions in the form of discrediting my claims. I ended up giving up in the end but have recently seen some turn around in opinion. Whether that will continue into relevant medical treatment I'm not sure. I hope so. That portion of my medical history will always be skewed though. Lots of preconceved misconceptions and assumptions made about me regardless of the words I spoke. I was frustrated that that would be the official story when I ctb and maybe it still will but I'm seeing it through to its conclusion whatever that may be for my loved ones and vague hope of being able to get healthcare that can help me enough to enjoy life as me again.

In the last year I kept a daily diary for the same reason as you're writing this post. I wanted those that I care about to know what they may otherwise not know. Perhaps that could be an option for you. A chain letter online would need a hook for people who don't necessarily care to read or share it around. It would need a certain element of gimmick otherwise people won't take the time to read it over. I say this as advice not discouragement.
 
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ceserasera

Member
Dec 17, 2021
68
I can relate to medical records being biased in the view of the writer. My medical records since I got ill don't represent me at all and it may as wrll be another person. Any attempt to address that was met with very defensive response and over reactions in the following m of discrediting my claims. I ended up giving up in the end but have recently seen some turn around in opinion. Whether that will continue into relevant medical treatment I'm not sure. I hope so. That portion of my medical history will always be skewed though. Lots of preconceptions and assumptions made about me regardless of the words I spoke. I was frustrated that that would be the official story when I ctb and maybe it still will but I'm seeing it through to its conclusion whatever that may be for my loved ones and vague hope of being able to healthcare that can help me enough to enjoy life as me again.

In the last year I kept a daily diary for the same reason as you're writing this post. I wanted those that I care about to know what they may otherwise not know. Perhaps that could be an option for you. A chain letter online would need a hook for people who don't necessarily care to ahare it around. It would need a certain element of gimmick otherwise people won't take the time to read it over. I say this as advice not discouragement.
What sort of gimmick do you suggest? I need to be heard because I need closure.
 
S

Smart No More

Visionary
May 5, 2021
2,734
What sort of gimmick do you suggest? I need to be heard because I need closure.
I'm not sure. I was just saying that your idea might not work due to people's lack of interest or any number of reasons that are out of our control for the most part. I don't know your story or what you intend to have people forward and share online. It may tug at the heart strings enough to work. I'm just offering up the need to consider ways to make it work as a long wall of text will stop people reading it. I guess my first suggestion would therefore be to condense it as much as possible. I know how hard that is when needing the details to be heard is at the forefront of your motives. This is the dilemma. I suppose attaching it to your ctb is one factor that will give it some weight but it's limited and more would be needed for it to get picked up virally in the way I think you're hoping. I'm no expert here myself. It's just easier to see the pitfalls when you're outside looking in so I thought I'd share my thoughts. Mostly to let you know I get how you feel with your experience in the medical system.
TBH I wasn't really so much suggesting a gimmick as pointing out that it's an unfortunate necessity in online culture.
 
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SadJessu

SadJessu

Just tired.
Aug 17, 2020
168
I understand your pain. My partner has an undiagnosed heart condition that's slowly killing him, we're sure. The NHS has labeled him mentally ill, a hypochondriac. This is despite a GP in America saying there's something clearly wrong after a physical examination, unfortunately we can not afford health care in the US system. The NHS is a joke, I'm sorry things have come to this for you.
 
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emptyjokes

emptyjokes

Nothing left to keep me out of paradise.
May 27, 2022
53
Please read until the end, and please help me. To be clear, I don't feel very strongly about any individual on this site. I think it has its problems with extreme views and bullies. But you can make of it what you want, and for me it's been the only place to be seen. The irony is that I'm anonymous. What does that tell you? It tells you that regardless of what anyone says, people will always judge, the content of your words is determined by everything other than your words. Your character is what people have written about you on paper. You morality is ascertained by senior people who've never met you. The 'narrative' is not yours. It never has been and it never will be. These last few years I've been galvanised by anger, I've gotten up in the morning purely out of spite. The sense of injustice at not being able to tell my own story, it gave me a focus. But everyone has their limits. That's the mistake people have made about me. They thought because of my anger I must be invincible.

Recently I've been trying to salvage my degree. I spent all of last year just floating through every day high on amphetamines. But then that stopped working because whenever it wore off or I didn't take it, I felt like I was dying. I just wanted to escape that endless feeling of impending doom. It's unbearable. I hate thinking about my parents dying all the time. I hate that I can't hug them without getting images of them dying slow, painful deaths and it being all my fault. Whenever I get really angry, usually because someone has said or done something that to other people maybe wouldn't be a big deal, but to me, I'm not so much angry at what they've done, im angry that I'm feeling unimaginable pain and I don't know what to do with it. I get so angry because every slight feels like a personal attack, every word and facial expression feels like a bullet to my chest. I hate it because I feel so stuck, I can't recognise my face, I hate it here and yet I'm stuck. And then when I ask for help I get told 'what does "help" look like?' as professionals proceed…not to help. It makes me want to shred my skin off, just let the ground fall from beneath me. It's scary not knowing who you are, feeling like a fraud wherever you go. It's scary not recognising your own face, trying to stop your parents dying, existing in this world when nobody understands, when you can't trust anyone.

I decided to live for myself. I decided that I wanted to build a future for myself, I wanted to be useful, I wanted to help others never feel the way I've felt. I want fairness and truth and honesty and autonomy. I'm always rooting for the underdog. The borderline obsessive attention to detail I possess, that people use to call me unreasonable, I was going to use that to be a lawyer, to make give everyone their chance to control the narrative. Because that's what the law is. It's a story that chops and changes depending on who tells it and who tells it best. So why not play people at their own game? I've worked with different charities for a while, but you're always on the outside asking people to listen. As a lawyer, the law is your device. You can shape it however you think you can argue. But anyway, I've gotten through over half of my assignments needed to pass this year with at least a 2:1. I just started getting my momentum back, realising that I can and do want this, and I'm good at it. I was seeing a new team of mental health professionals who I was still unsure of, but beginning to feel ok about. But it was always fragile. Every day is a battle and any little thing could knock me off.

And just like that, one letter completely threw me. And now I don't care again. And this time I'm done. The reason I mentioned having control of your own 'narrative' earlier is because this letter told me that I didn't have 'narrative competence', meaning I didn't buy into the narrative that they keep pushing, where I'm a horrible person and I've caused all the problems in my life. When you spend every day trying to establish who you are, what you like, what you are like, being told you're essentially an abusive waste of resources with no self-awareness, oh and you're a liar - well, that does something to you. Every day I'm trying to rebuild my sense of self and something, or someone, always comes in and bulldozes their way through it. I'm not rebuilding again. It hurts too much.
I'm not here to say goodbye or talk about anything profound, or spell out the pain I feel, because I've learnt that that means nothing. Because the problem has never been about people knowing you're in pain. Loads of people are. It's about who matters.

I'm here because I need you to help me reclaim the narrative just this once. I'm trying to figure out if people will support me. Tomorrow (3/06/2022) I'm going to get the last word, I'm going to make it clear that I won't continue to exist in this world where at the same time I'm told I have capacity, I'm denied all control over my narrative. Stories matter, words matter. They matter so much because they can shatter people's souls with one wrong move.

Everyone here knows what I mean. I'm tired of it all, but saying 'I'm going to kill myself' feels so pathetic. I just want to go quietly. Ironically, it feels like for the first time in so many months the fog that's been following me around has lifted, the heaviness in my chest has eased. I think it's the clearest I've ever thought. There's no anger anymore, just exasperation, fatigue and despair.

This evening I'll post something. Tomorrow (3/06/2022) I'd appreciate people helping my story be heard. It's nothing dramatic, just a response that I'm being denied. Has anyone else had experience of being sent an official letter and being gagged by way of being gagged and told you you will be labelled an 'unreasonably persistent complainant' if you try and reply. That's how you know you have no control over anything. It's abusive. It will be clear when I post the letter. For context, it's a letter from an NHS trust (UK) telling me that Im the problem, I'm a horrible person, and everything is my fault. Except I'm not a horrible person because to them I'm not a human being at all. I won't, after everything I've been through, be forced to swallow a story about me that's so far from the truth, by people who know nothing about me beyond the paper version of myself that they've created.

I have thoughts and feeling, and likes and dislikes. I've been trying to find my way in the world but I don't think I have a place.

Anyway, please, if I say my piece tonight, will people make sure that others know? Just copy and paste, screenshot or whatever. I'll tell you who to tag. Then, even after I'm gone, at least my reality is out there. I've worked at a homelessness charity for a few months now, and these are people that live and die in silence, invisible to the rest of society. Some quite literally have no proof of who they are, rendering them irrelevant to the world. So next time someone tries to tell you that you matter, or that there are good people in the world, or that you have control over your life and your story, remember that there are plenty of people who are born, live and die in irrelevance.
You have a way with words. I can relate to a lot of what you've said in your post as well. You sound like an intelligent and capable person, I'm sorry that these things have happened to you. One way or another, I hope that there is peace for you in the future, and thank you for sharing your thoughts.
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
42,571
It is such a cruel and unfair life and I'm sorry that you have had to endure this. It is horrific how so much suffering exists. I hope that you find what you are looking for.
 
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Smart No More

Visionary
May 5, 2021
2,734
I guess you could do a load of delayed emails on repeat to as many email addresses as you can so that people start questioning what it is and start discussing on social media. It needs to be a very objective and concise letter though. Perhaps with a link to a resource for more detsil if people want it. That way people won't be turned off by a long wordy email and can play 'treasure hunt/investigator' in following bread crumbs you leave.

So for example it could begin quite simply like.... You don't know me. You probably don't care to know me. I'm just putting my story out into the world as if you're reading this I am most likely dead by my own hand. I ask nothing of you but to read my story and bare witness to the person and life that would otherwise be dust in the wind. I ask nothing more of you however, should you feel inclined to discuss this with friends and aquaintances online the please feel free to do so. Anything that furthers awareness of who I really was and what really happened would be a real service to me and the life that is no longer in my body.

Then a short, very short summary of what's happened. Like a chronology of events. Purely factual. Follwed by a link to a much more detailed write up on a file hosting site. You could even set up a profile and provide people log in details so they can log in and sit in your skin by reading through your posts and timeline from your perspective. It's not something you could do over night but it's an art project in itself and could create a pretty emersive experience for people that like to get lost in mystery or iRL drama. It would take some thinking out but I think it has legs if you can put your efforts into it. As someone with attention to detail (something I relate to more than I can say) and an underdtanding of lawyering/weaving a narative this should play right into your skillset. I mean, without getting too ahead of myself here, this could potentially become a format in and of itself.

There was a videogame - Heavy Rain - which, bwfore being released had all these clues and bread crumb trails to follow keading upto its release. It eas based around a serial killer and a psychological thriller type of game. Honestly the game didn't quite hit its mark but that marketing campaign was pretty inspired and you could probably pick up some tips from reading up on it. It had so much untapped potential.

Imagine though - reformatting the book. No longer a front page to back page block but a twisting multiplatformed naration which you interact with in real time and have to discover for yourself or with others. I'm putting my name on this here and now lol. Just in case I'm onto something. It's probably been done tbf. But if it hasn't its mine! :)) But seriously OP, maybe this is something you could put your final efforts into and leave a legacy. I feel that's essentially what you're looking for in order to make your peace, right?
 
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TheLastFemaphrodyke

TheLastFemaphrodyke

Student
May 25, 2022
130
I guess you could do a load of delayed emails on repeat to as many email addresses as you can so that people start questioning what it is and start discussing on social media. It needs to be a very objective and concise letter though. Perhaps with a link to a resource for more detsil if people want it. That way people won't be turned off by a long wordy email and can play 'treasure hunt/investigator' in following bread crumbs you leave.

So for example it could begin quite simply like.... You don't know me. You probably don't care to know me. I'm just putting my story out into the world as if you're reading this I am most likely dead by my own hand. I ask nothing of you but to read my story and bare witness to the person and life that would otherwise be dust in the wind. I ask nothing more of you however, should you feel inclined to discuss this with friends and aquaintances online the please feel free to do so. Anything that furthers awareness of who I really was and what really happened would be a real service to me and the life that is no longer in my body.

Then a short, very short summary of what's happened. Like a chronology of events. Purely factual. Follwed by a link to a much more detailed write up on a file hosting site. You could even set up a profile and provide people log in details so they can log in and sit in your skin by reading through your posts and timeline from your perspective. It's not something you could do over night but it's an art project in itself and could create a pretty emersive experience for people that like to get lost in mystery or iRL drama. It would take some thinking out but I think it has legs if you can put your efforts into it. As someone with attention to detail (something I relate to more than I can say) and an underdtanding of lawyering/weaving a narative this should play right into your skillset. I mean, without getting too ahead of myself here, this could potentially become a format in and of itself.

There was a videogame - Heavy Rain - which, bwfore being released had all these clues and bread crumb trails to follow keading upto its release. It eas based around a serial killer and a psychological thriller type of game. Honestly the game didn't quite hit its mark but that marketing campaign was pretty inspired and you could probably pick up some tips from reading up on it. It had so much untapped potential.

Imagine though - reformatting the book. No longer a front page to back page block but a twisting multiplatformed naration which you interact with in real time and have to discover for yourself or with others. I'm putting my name on this here and now lol. Just in case I'm onto something. It's probably been done tbf. But if it hasn't its mine! :)) But seriously OP, maybe this is something you could put your final efforts into and leave a legacy. I feel that's essentially what you're looking for in order to make your peace, right?
If I may, I would like to abscond with this information myself. Thanx for the suggestion, how concisely and aptly put.
 
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