Method I'm killing myself in a hospital to prove that you can too (VSED)

[rationaltake]

Where I live they threaten to section a mental health patient who doesn't eat. They call it being a danger to yourself. But they try very hard to believe you're absolutely fine and don't need sectioning as the mental health wards are full.

 

[chocolatebar]

Hey pento, I'm sorry for all this.

Please, think more about it. Look, you're considering putting yourself on the hands of other people who have many legal criteria to do almost anything to you as long as it's considered a treatment.

And remember, you don't have to prove anyone of anything.

 

[wljourney]

I'm currently at the hospital, waiting to see if I am gonna be committed involuntarily. I suspect I will, since I made my intention (ending my life) very clear. I can selectively consent to different courses of treatment while inpatient though.

They give elderly patients VSEDing morphine and other drugs and they still manage to die via dehydration so...

I feel for you because you are in a tremendous amount of pain and I wish you weren't. None of us should be.
And I sincerely hope that whatever the hospital can do, helps you. But VSED will not be it.

Canada has medical assistance in dying for non-terminally ill patients and not even here would this work like what you have planned.

I hope you get through this and find relief from your pain.

Where I live they threaten to section a mental health patient who doesn't eat. They call it being a danger to yourself. But they try very hard to believe you're absolutely fine and don't need sectioning as the mental health wards are full.

Very much this. They simply won't even put you on a 72 hr hold here unless you have already harmed yourself, since the psych wards are full.

And if you have ever left the psych ward against medical advice they won't admit you again. Unless it's a medical emergency , then you get a hallway bed on a regular floor.

 

[rationaltake]

I hope they treat you with compassion pento.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Let the person try anyways. They need to learn the hard way that this plan will fail since they do not seem to get it.

 

[Foresight]

You can deny treatment but can you demand treatment in the specific way you want?

If someone comes in dying of dehydration the staff is going to want to hydrate them. If a terminally ill patient is dying they can give the patient morphine without too much fluids or another route for comfort care if organs are failing. I don't think anyone can demand morphine but also demand to not get too hydrated. You also can't demand morphine, that's a decision the staff makes and if you're refusing treatment and being overall difficult I don't think they need to make you comfortable with benzos and narcotics.

There are holes that make it implausible in my mind. There are distinct reasons why you're not going to be treated like another terminally ill patient.

 

[Eternally Dottie]

Every single ill patient VSEDing would be revived dozens of times over if they were force fed and hydrated when they lost consciousness.

Do not resuscitate orders and advanced directives exist for a reason.

DNR orders and Advanced Directives are generally followed when people are terminally ill/have a degenerative condition/are end of life. If someone wanted to VSED in hospital without having a terminal physical illness they would most likely be force fed and hydrated - e.g if it was due to mental illness or anorexia - I would imagine

 

[The Abyss]

I can't see this working, they'll force a tube down your throat, at least they would in uk; don't know about us.

 

[pento]

Even if this did work against all common-sense, it would cause a media and political firestorm and any legal loopholes would be closed, as they have been doing for years. Sending you love for everything you have been through, though.

This is something I actually was afraid of, that others couldn't follow in my footsteps.

Just to update you guys, spent the last couple days in the hospital. The posters suggesting that they would force hydrate me were correct, I got confirmation of this from several staff while inpatient. They ultimately didn't commit me involuntarily. Reason being I admitted to them that I don't have any other way to kill myself (without serious risk of permanent disability and horrible failures) besides VSED, which I evidently can't do in the hospital.

At this point, now out of the hospital, I don't have a clue what I should do now. One passing idea was doing a DIY VSED pain treatment/sleep med regime using only OTC drugs, namely ibuprofen and Benadryl, but whether or not this would work to significantly reduce pain is... questionable.

I now understand why so many on here have been active for years without killing themselves. If you don't have access to N or SN, as many on here don't, we really don't have any good methods that don't have catastrophic risk of failure. VSED outside of the hospital is the only idea I have left at this point.

 

[Judy Garland]

This is something I actually was afraid of, that others couldn't follow in my footsteps.

Just to update you guys, spent the last couple days in the hospital. The posters suggesting that they would force hydrate me were correct, I got confirmation of this from several staff while inpatient. They ultimately didn't commit me involuntarily. Reason being I admitted to them that I don't have any other way to kill myself (without serious risk of permanent disability and horrible failures) besides VSED, which I evidently can't do in the hospital.

At this point, now out of the hospital, I don't have a clue what I should do now. One passing idea was doing a DIY VSED pain treatment/sleep med regime using only OTC drugs, namely ibuprofen and Benadryl, but whether or not this would work to significantly reduce pain is... questionable.

I now understand why so many on here have been active for years without killing themselves. If you don't have access to N or SN, as many on here don't, we really don't have any good methods that don't have catastrophic risk of failure. VSED outside of the hospital is the only idea I have left at this point.

Well you certainly can do VSED outside of the hospital if you have the determination to see it through. If you read up on the method you will see site after site stating, "You cannot do this alone". That's not true. Monks do this all the time to die. Also read this article:

Gardener, 47, starved himself to death while camping in woods as he kept 58-day diary detailing the effects of not eating

Thomas Hall, 47, of St Davids in Pembrokeshire, Wales, started the diary when he refused to take any food on a camping trip into deep woodlands.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So it can be done. You just have to have a lot of willpower. I hope you are feeling better though. Life is pure torment for me, so I imagine you are feeling the same way. I have SN but I'm afraid it won't work like the recent reports I've been hearing. Nothing is easy, is it. I just want to go Home to Heaven. I'm so tired. Hope you are doing ok.

 

[DarkRocket]

I sincerely wish you luck, I really do, but my grandmother is in a nursing home and she doesn't want to eat. What does the nursing staff do? Force feed her with the help of my mom. She's 96 by the way, unable to do ANYTHING for herself. Yet my mom and the nursing staff are constantly hovering over her, making sure she eats or drinks, despite my grandmother throwing punches at times.

They slip medicine in her drinks, then she becomes so drowsy and not able to put up a fight. When she's relaxed, with her eyes half closed, they feed her and give her liquids. She has lost a ton of weight, maybe 50 pounds, but with the help of my mom, the staff are determined to keep my zombie of a grandmother alive. As I said, I sincerely wish you luck......

Edit: I see that you left the hospital, as feared.

 

[empty]

I ate very little in the hospital and was force-fed. Had I not complied, they would have tube-fed me, which they threatened to do.

 

[pento]

Really demonstrates the point that hospitals are not our friend, nor are doctors or medical staff broadly.

 

[Well-Edited Chaos]

At this point, now out of the hospital, I don't have a clue what I should do now. One passing idea was doing a DIY VSED pain treatment/sleep med regime using only OTC drugs, namely ibuprofen and Benadryl, but whether or not this would work to significantly reduce pain is... questionable.

I wonder how people who are on hunger strikes do it (eg, political prisoners, people protesting environmental destruction, etc). I know some of them go for quite a while (weeks, maybe months) w/o eating. They must have some strategies or tools, since they're as committed to their goal as you are to yours.

 

[pento]

I wonder how people who are on hunger strikes do it (eg, political prisoners, people protesting environmental destruction, etc). I know some of them go for quite a while (weeks, maybe months) w/o eating. They must have some strategies or tools, since they're as committed to their goal as you are to yours.

Well they drink so... I wonder if it's easier to force hydrate than force feed.

 

[Well-Edited Chaos]

Well they drink so... I wonder if it's easier to force hydrate than force feed.

Maybe. But a hunger strike still puts people at risk of CTB.

 

[peanuts]

Really demonstrates the point that hospitals are not our friend, nor are doctors or medical staff broadly.

Im a nurse and I was going to come on here and say they would not let a non-terminal person starve themselves to death and happily sedate them through it. I also have anorexia and certainly have experience being force fed. But I see you've left hospital now anyway now.

I'm sorry you're in such a bad spot. I'm not sure what to suggest really. You won't be able to end your life in a hospital. Doctors and nurses aren't allowed to let you kill yourself. If we did that, and a family member found out and put in a formal complaint, we would lose our job and have our name dragged through the mud. We'd be in so much trouble and never have a job again. To suggest we would put our lives on the line to help someone suicide is crazy, but it doesn't mean we aren't good people who are trying.

I hope you can work out a way to get through this, whichever outcome you choose. Take care

Maybe. But a hunger strike still puts people at risk of CTB.

Anyone can hunger strike but you can't be asking medical professionals to help you do it or sedate you through it if that makes sense?

 

[Well-Edited Chaos]

Anyone can hunger strike but you can't be asking medical professionals to help you do it or sedate you through it if that makes sense?

I was speaking in a more general sense, not in reference to a hospital setting, and thinking in terms of other strategies, tools, and resources.

 

[odradek]

Sorry this didn't work out for you but the writing was on the wall from the start that this would never work. I do understand though. Being suicidal can cloud your judgement and lead to hyperfixation on faulty plans. I speak from experience.

Any plan to manipulate society into actively assisting in the death of a physically healthy person, especially a hospital, is not going to work.

I now understand why so many on here have been active for years without killing themselves. If you don't have access to N or SN, as many on here don't, we really don't have any good methods that don't have catastrophic risk of failure. VSED outside of the hospital is the only idea I have left at this point.

This is common theme for many users here. However there are some who have N or SN and they remain here too. Suicide is difficult regardless of method. It is the ultimate act, the final action can take, as far as we know. Suicide needs a shit ton of willpower and should be treated with respect. Well that's one thing I've learned for myself being on here.

Sorry I'm starting to ramble and am veerying off topic as I often do. Sorry you find yourself here OP.

 

[wljourney]

Suicide is difficult regardless of method. It is the ultimate act, the final action can take, as far as we know. Suicide needs a shit ton of willpower and should be treated with respect. Well that's one thing I've learned for myself being on here.

not rambling at all. I think you said it quite well and that's what makes this community so unique. Many of us know how challenging it is to actually CTB and that it takes an immense willpower to go through with it. Whichever method one chooses, it deserves respect.

 

[Judy Garland]

I sincerely wish you luck, I really do, but my grandmother is in a nursing home and she doesn't want to eat. What does the nursing staff do? Force feed her with the help of my mom. She's 96 by the way, unable to do ANYTHING for herself. Yet my mom and the nursing staff are constantly hovering over her, making sure she eats or drinks, despite my grandmother throwing punches at times.

They slip medicine in her drinks, then she becomes so drowsy and not able to put up a fight. When she's relaxed, with her eyes half closed, they feed her and give her liquids. She has lost a ton of weight, maybe 50 pounds, but with the help of my mom, the staff are determined to keep my zombie of a grandmother alive. As I said, I sincerely wish you luck......

Edit: I see that you left the hospital, as feared.

How horrific. Your poor Grandmother. I'm so sorry that she is going through that. I don't understand how the Staff can justify doing this to her. She doesn't have a good quality of life and she knows it, and doesn't want to be around anymore. I'm so sorry that you have to witness this and can't do anything about it.

 

[Alex6216]

This is something I actually was afraid of, that others couldn't follow in my footsteps.

Just to update you guys, spent the last couple days in the hospital. The posters suggesting that they would force hydrate me were correct, I got confirmation of this from several staff while inpatient. They ultimately didn't commit me involuntarily. Reason being I admitted to them that I don't have any other way to kill myself (without serious risk of permanent disability and horrible failures) besides VSED, which I evidently can't do in the hospital.

At this point, now out of the hospital, I don't have a clue what I should do now. One passing idea was doing a DIY VSED pain treatment/sleep med regime using only OTC drugs, namely ibuprofen and Benadryl, but whether or not this would work to significantly reduce pain is... questionable.

I now understand why so many on here have been active for years without killing themselves. If you don't have access to N or SN, as many on here don't, we really don't have any good methods that don't have catastrophic risk of failure. VSED outside of the hospital is the only idea I have left at this point.

You could order morphine and benzodiazepines from the darknet. The "darknet bible" is a good guide in doing this, read the guide using a VPN or with the TOR browser. Although at this point you might as well order 10g of GHB, a bunch of xanax and ctb by drinking 300-400ml of alcohol laced with 10g of GHB and taking a bunch of xanax beforehand, this method just as good as N and cheaper too

Sorry this didn't work out for you but the writing was on the wall from the start that this would never work. I do understand though. Being suicidal can cloud your judgement and lead to hyperfixation on faulty plans. I speak from experience.

Any plan to manipulate society into actively assisting in the death of a physically healthy person, especially a hospital, is not going to work.



This is common theme for many users here. However there are some who have N or SN and they remain here too. Suicide is difficult regardless of method. It is the ultimate act, the final action can take, as far as we know. Suicide needs a shit ton of willpower and should be treated with respect. Well that's one thing I've learned for myself being on here.

Sorry I'm starting to ramble and am veerying off topic as I often do. Sorry you find yourself here OP.

Also not everyone lives alone, you might be found and be treated at the hospital

 

[TheLastFemaphrodyke]

Palliative care wouldn't exist then since half the people in it want to die and Washington state (where I live) and several other states have physician-assisted suicide. And all 50 states have physician-assisted VSED for palliative patients and routinely carry them out without a second thought.

The only difference between me and the hundreds of other palliative patients in my county, is that I don't have a physical illness causing me to want to die, rather just a general will to die. That's it.

It also wouldn't be several weeks. It would take about a week to die, most of which not requiring intensive care or even necessarily a hospital bed.

I have fasted, completely, except for water for 21 days and felt great the entire time, after the first five days I even stopped feeling hungry. Yes, I was obese and yes I was drinking water. When I tried fasting without drinking water I got very sick very fast, after two days I was incoherent. It is the lack of water, the dehydration that kills you. Cellular metabolism cannot work without water intake, cells stop working, cells die, organs stop working, organs die. The incoherence can save you, they are tricky buggers and will get you to state in some way that you want to be saved, you really want to drink or eat, if they are the types with the intent that you MUST live. I have thought of this and the ONLY thing that stops me is I so sincerely do not want to be in a hospital setting, surrounded by strangers waiting for me to give up their hospital bed for someone who wants to fight to live, which is how it would feel to me. I would rather be out in the wilderness, amid the peace, only starving to death in the wilderness, without the aid of the pallative care would indeed be horrid.
I send you vibrations of peace and comfort in the path you choose and would be interested to know the outcome, because those thoughts have crossed my mind, to hell with those waiting for my bed, I deserve to die in peace myself after the unpeaceful life circumstances I have been forced to endure; yet, I sincerely am not sending you on your merry way and wishing you off, I do however applaud your bravery in tackling such a subject and openly sharing with the rest of us on here.

 

[whatevs]

Really demonstrates the point that hospitals are not our friend, nor are doctors or medical staff broadly.

I'm baffled that you ever thought this was feasible. Your plan was basically the opposite of what could work. You went to the worst place to get assistance while killing yourself.

 

[Unheiress_unleashed]

I have been on the other side of that wall. I used to be an EMS professional, and I once had to carry out an involuntary psych order on an individual who would not eat, simply because an assisted living home would not provide them with meals that were in line with their (very easy and mainstream) religious beliefs. As a result, this person didn't eat, not willing to break their faith for such a ridiculous thing, and they were sent to a hospital as though they were suicidal. They asked to climb into the ambulance on their own, but we were worried about them falling due to days without food, so they happily laid out on our stretcher and let us carry them in.

We chatted on the way up. They told me they didn't want to die, they just figured fasting out of protest would be a way to get a meal they wouldn't need to break their morals to eat. Their religion did provide a stipulation for eating outside of the guidelines during times of hardship or famine, but my patient didn't believe that the situation qualified because there was no real reason for it outside of elder care admin bullshit. And frankly, they were right. We took them to a hospital that was able to accommodate them and they got fed. Still had to complete a state mandated psych hold even with zero intention of dying. It isn't a hard process in most states to get a forced hold on somebody; in the state that story took place in, you don't even have to put it in writing, just have someone on scene explain to a judge over the phone what's happening, and they can give verbal permission for police officers to take them into custody on a psych hold.

Just giving some context for why what happened did. If this were a thing, people would be doing it all the time. I ultimately believe that everyone who genuinely wants to die in the best circumstances we can give them should be allowed to, and our current system is broken and bad. But the above was the easiest psych call of my time in EMS by a country mile, and I can see how our system is supposed to be set up to prioritize those who aren't in a rational mindset or thinking things through. Not accusing Pento of that, but I just kinda wanted to walk through my experience of having been on the other side.