I’m considering going to Ukraine

[ScaredToLive]

I want to help first and foremost but there is also a a chance I might die so it's kind of a win win? Is anyone considering this

 

[Natty]

no you aren't lol

 

[Yagami]

If you aren't a medic or have never fought before you're useless to them.

 

[ScaredToLive]

I believe Nessie has explained this in a couple other threads.
Basically, no, Ukraine is not accepting support from people without combat experience, and you'd be putting others in danger by attempting to visit Ukraine.

Not strictly true they are accepting logistics personnel, driving supplies etc

no you aren't lol

Of course you know me better than me. My best mate did two tours of Afghan. I know a little bit about how things work: you don't know me in the slightest lol. My last job put me at risk of constant violence

 

[ClaudeKersey]

How do you plan to get there?

 

[Stargazer73]

you gotta be careful. don't go if you're a burden, meaning if you're not physically capable of war, or if you experience anything like psychotic episodes that cause you to lose focus and zone out in the middle of a task. dying would be difficult if you're not being sent directly to Kyiv or something like that, its like risking death by cop, chances are you'll either get vegetized or traumatized and be more miserable than you are now. take careful consideration, dude

 

[HappyForever?]

These are possible outcomes if you actually go to war:
- Killed instantly in battle (only good scenario)
- Dying slowly and painfully in battle
- Injured in battle and living the rest of your life disabled
- Surviving battle unscathed or with non-permanent injuries, but emotionally traumatized

In short, I don't think this is a good idea.

 

[Ligottian]

You would be a mercenary and have no Geneva Convention protection.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

These are possible outcomes if you actually go to war:
- Killed instantly in battle (only good scenario)
- Dying slowly and painfully in battle
- Injured in battle and living the rest of your life disabled
- Surviving battle unscathed or with non-permanent injuries, but emotionally traumatized

In short, I don't think this is a good idea.

^ This. I appreciate your desire too help, but since this is in suicide discussion, I must say being in Ukraine is the shittiest potential suicide method ever. Trust me, I know.

Other than that, I have a few questions for you if you don't mind:
1) Where are you from?
2) You might not know, but where exactly in Ukraine do you imagine you are planning to go? At least vaguely (East, West, South, war zone, close to war zone, not war zone)?
3) How are you planning to get here?
4) What exactly are you planning to do here?

 

[WhiteRabbit]

My best mate did two tours of Afghan. I know a little bit about how things work

Yup, you're totally ready for war. Go get 'em!

Seriously though, there are better ways to off yourself, but it's nice you want to help.

 

[Ethereal Knight]

These are possible outcomes if you actually go to war:
- Killed instantly in battle (only good scenario)
- Dying slowly and painfully in battle
- Injured in battle and living the rest of your life disabled
- Surviving battle unscathed or with non-permanent injuries, but emotionally traumatized

In short, I don't think this is a good idea.

also he could get captured and tortured.

you're right, it's not a good idea. there are better methods.

 

[voltage268]

^ This. I appreciate your desire too help, but since this is in suicide discussion, I must say being in Ukraine is the shittiest potential suicide method ever. Trust me, I know.

Other than that, I have a few questions for you if you don't mind:
1) Where are you from?
2) You might not know, but where exactly in Ukraine do you imagine you are planning to go? At least vaguely (East, West, South, war zone, close to war zone, not war zone)?
3) How are you planning to get here?
4) What exactly are you planning to do here?

Do you live in Ukraine? If yes and clearly you're on this website, are you tempted to be taken out defending your country, or by any other means, as death is literally on your doorstep?

Why in your opinion is it 'the shittiest potential suicide method ever'? Appreciate your thoughts.


I have considered this OP, I'm in the UK and there are a fair deal willing to go as seen in our news and even reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/volunteersForUkraine/) but my immediate family couldn't live with me going (single/no kids) as they think it's a death sentence and wouldn't be able to live with themselves, little would they know that that's part of the draw.

But there have been some fair outcomes mentioned here:

These are possible outcomes if you actually go to war:
- Killed instantly in battle (only good scenario)
- Dying slowly and painfully in battle
- Injured in battle and living the rest of your life disabled
- Surviving battle unscathed or with non-permanent injuries, but emotionally traumatized

I think we're similar so 1 and 2 would be acceptable, even honourable for us, but being captured and tortured is another possibility.

Like you, dying while helping people in need is my ideal scenario. It seems like the war in Ukraine would be close to a perfect scenario for this. Honestly I would probably already be there if not for family, I wish they didn't care as much, there were people on reddit, even without combat experience organising logistics and grouping together because they said they couldn't sit around and not help out, have talked to a few of them. Am not encouraging you, but saying I know how you feel and have the same thoughts/dilemma, we might be from the same country and have the same fighting nature (do a bit of boxing) so it's more of an attractive/'honourable' proposition for us than to others here who balk or laugh at you. But there have been plenty of fair comments here as well, it's an interesting discussion as it's become a realistic issue due to the horrors we're witnessing now.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

Do you live in Ukraine? If yes and clearly you're on this website, are you tempted to be taken out defending your country, or by any other means, as death is literally on your doorstep?

Yup, in Ukraine. I'm not much of a defender though, because I'm also disabled. Although my thoughts, frankly, went all the way up to becoming a suicide bomber. If things get super dire and I cannot escape, it's probably just be "suicide by cop", or rather suicide by soldier I guess.

Why in your opinion is it 'the shittiest potential suicide method ever'? Appreciate your thoughts.

Many points here were already raised, but my main thoughts are:
1) If you die, you often die absolutely horribly. In a fire, with your limbs torn off, under rubble etc. The death for most people isn't quick and painless.
2) You will definitely suffer. Even if you aren't actually exposed to active warfare, the experience of running to bombshelters, of seeing wounded people, wrecked infrastructure, empty shops with no necessities, of living every day with possibilities of all the horrible deaths listed above happening to you - or to every person you see around you is incredibly traumatic mentally. Not to mention the fact that in catastrophic scenarios (shelling, bombing, crossfire, war action) not all people die but many are left permanently disabled. Suffering is guaranteed. Death isn't.
3) If you think that dying in combat would be heroic and make your suicide meaningful, please think again. If you go to war with a purpose of dying there, you will be actively sabotaging the army you're fighting for. The goal of any soldier is to do everything and anything NOT to die (and to keep his fellows from dying). Every soldier in action has a role, so by dying you're not only going to be helping absolutely no one, but you might doom many other people. Even if you don't doom or endanger anyone, going to war and just dying is a waste of weapons, ammo, tech, and any other resources that the army will provide you with to fight the enemy, that will likely become your enemie's trophy after your death. Not to mention the possibility of you ending up captured or wounded instead of killed, which is not only going to be horrible for you, but will also force your fellow soldiers to save you. You've got to have one hell of a survival instinct to be a good soldier.

 

[voltage268]

Yup, in Ukraine. I'm not much of a defender though, because I'm also disabled. Although my thoughts, frankly, went all the way up to becoming a suicide bomber. If things get super dire and I cannot escape, it's probably just be "suicide by cop", or rather suicide by soldier I guess.

Many points here were already raised, but my main thoughts are:
1) If you die, you often die absolutely horribly. In a fire, with your limbs torn off, under rubble etc. The death for most people isn't quick and painless.
2) You will definitely suffer. Even if you aren't actually exposed to active warfare, the experience of running to bombshelters, of seeing wounded people, wrecked infrastructure, empty shops with no necessities, of living every day with possibilities of all the horrible deaths listed above happening to you - or to every person you see around you is incredibly traumatic mentally. Not to mention the fact that in catastrophic scenarios (shelling, bombing, crossfire, war action) not all people die but many are left permanently disabled. Suffering is guaranteed. Death isn't.
3) If you think that dying in combat would be heroic and make your suicide meaningful, please think again. If you go to war with a purpose of dying there, you will be actively sabotaging the army you're fighting for. The goal of any soldier is to do everything and anything NOT to die (and to keep his fellows from dying). Every soldier in action has a role, so by dying you're not only going to be helping absolutely no one, but you might doom many other people. Even if you don't doom or endanger anyone, going to war and just dying is a waste of weapons, ammo, tech, and anything other resources that the army will provide you with to fight the enemy, that will likely become your enemie's trophy after your death. Not to mention the possibility of you ending up captured or wounded instead of killed, which is not only going to be horrible for you, but will also force your fellow soldiers to save you. You've got to have one hell of a survival instinct to be a good soldier.

Thanks for the in-depth insight Nessie, great hearing from someone living there, I'm so sorry for your country and also your personal predicament, you've reiterated some fair points. Regarding the last issue, I think the OP and someone like myself for that matter would not be intending to die as the first priority, but as a consequence of trying as hard as possible to help. The way of dying a painful death might be secondary, if they're like me, they'd rather die in pain through someone else's hand than by their own, to not dishonour family/loved ones (die as a defender/war 'hero' vs suicide?) But as you said, even death isn't guaranteed and others can be put at risk. Shows you how our depressed minds work that war has an appeal.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

Regarding the last issue, I think the OP and someone like myself for that matter would not be intending to die as the first priority, but as a consequence of trying as hard as possible to help. The way of dying a painful death might be secondary, if they're like me, they'd rather die in pain through someone else's hand than by their own, to not dishonour family/loved ones (die as a defender/war 'hero' vs suicide?) Shows you how our depressed minds work that war has an appeal.

When you're depressed mind does work in unusual ways. But if you want to be helpful at war you've got to seriously understand where you're going to be helpful. Just another fallen soldier, quickly killed after recruitment, is the opposite of helpful. Your suffering and sacrifice are not directlty proportional to your helpfulness, that's not how it works. For most people that aren't trained for combat and in great physical and mental shape, going to war and dying there is far from the best way to help. Those who live nearby can help refugees in many ways. Those who live far away can donate to the Ukrainian army (we literally have more volunteers than assault rifles already) or to organisations that help the children here, such as Red Cross. Being alive and doing something kind, even in a small way, for as long as you can and as long as this goes on, would be so much more impactful than just dying, that is if one genuinely wants to help and not just to go out in a "cool" way and be called a hero. If it's the latter - really, it doesn't matter, dead men aren't there to enjoy the attention and loved ones will be devastated either way.
Thank you for sympathising. Love and peace

 

[voltage268]

When you're depressed mind does work in unusual ways. But if you want to be helpful at war you've got to seriously understand where you're going to be helpful. Just another fallen soldier, quickly killed after recruitment, is the opposite of helpful. Your suffering and sacrifice are not directlty proportional to your helpfulness, that's not how it works. For most people that aren't trained for combat and in great physical and mental shape, going to war and dying there is far from the best way to help. Those who live nearby can help refugees in many ways. Those who live far away can donate to the Ukrainian army (we literally have more volunteers than assault rifles already) or to organisations that help the children here, such as Red Cross. Being alive and doing something kind, even in a small way, for as long as you can and as long as this goes on, would be so much more impactful than just dying, that is if one genuinely wants to help and not just to go out in a "cool" way and be called a hero. If it's the latter - really, it doesn't matter, dead men aren't there to enjoy the attention and loved ones will be devastated either way.
Thank you for sympathising. Love and peace

Are you safe in a shelter? Are you in Kyiv, or a city that has been taken over? If you don't want to answer then ignore a nosy busybody like me asking, but are there any interesting thoughts that you could share about your current experience? Would love to hear them. I didn't know the volunteers outnumbered the weapons, from what is being reported rifles are being given to everyone who wants them, even the elderly women (could be propaganda), and the president is asking anyone outside of the country to join the defense and will be readily armed, hence this thread, literally a call to arms. From an outside perspective, at least the western world, is full of admiration for your people and your president, along with his interesting background as a comedian!

 

[Someone123]

I want to help first and foremost but there is also a a chance I might die so it's kind of a win win? Is anyone considering this

My reaction is that if you are going to ctb then going into this situation to try to help and taking high risk assignments could be a somewhat noble way to leave, but you would need to be confident that this is the right decision for you, which is always true of ctb. There may be a chance that making a contribution like this could lead people to admire you and might push you on a path to recovery. I wish you the best whatever you decide. :)

 

[GrumpyFrog]

Are you safe in a shelter? Are you in Kyiv, or a city that has been taken over?

Thankfully, I am not in Kyiv, or Kharkiv, or the city that was taken over (there's only one so far). I am not in a shelter - the ones we have here aren't equipped to stay in 24/7 really. We weren't hit very badly yet, but I am close to Kharkiv (that's the city that has seen the most damage) and the general consensus is that once Russian army will get past Kharkiv they will go through our city to surround Kyiv, so the worst is kind of yet to come.

If you don't want to answer then ignore a nosy busybody like me asking, but are there any interesting thoughts that you could share about your current experience?

I'll gladly answer any questions that you're curious about. As for interesting thoughts...I don't think my thoughts will be that original or insightful. It's just that you might've imagined war in your head a million times (I certainly did because it was a threat for a while), but still nothing prepares you for the moment you hear sirens or explosions for the first time.
War is not cool or noble. War is scary, dirty and evil. Russian soldiers are not some abstract evil faceless orcs. They are human beings too. Some of them didn't know where they were going when they got here, others were forced, many genuinely believed they came here to save us from imaginary NeoNazis that, according to mr. Putin, took over everything here, or that by bombing our cities they somehow protect their own home from evil NATO, even though NATO 100% washed their hands of this whole thing. They have loved ones and families. Our people have no choice but to kill them or be killed and it's horrible. I can't imagine anything worse. No one should want to go to war. Even if they don't want to live.

I didn't know the volunteers outnumbered the weapons, from what is being reported rifles are being given to everyone who wants them, even the elderly women (could be propaganda), and the president is asking anyone outside of the country to join the defense and will be readily armed, hence this thread, literally a call to arms.

Well, elderly women certainly are likely to be propaganda. Our president will, indeed, give weapons to everyone who comes here...with a document confirming previous combat experience. Only those who have been to war before qualify. As for locals, there are less limitations, in Kyiv they really give out rifles to everyone capable of holding them because the situation is dire and it's the capital, but in other cities if you're not in good shape you can really be turned down from volunteering because we don't have a lot of weapons and no one wants to waste them on someone who isn't going to be useful.

From an outside perspective, at least the western world, is full of admiration for your people and your president, along with his interesting background as a comedian!

Thank you, it's nice to hear about it. I think our president is so unique he will literally make his mark in history. A guy plays in sitcoms, makes a sitcom about an average Joe becoming a president. People rally for him to really run for office, he does essentially as a joke candidate, but since people are really sick and tired of ALL the politicians already in power everyone votes for Zelensky as a protest and he ends up with a landslide victory. Then pandemic hits, and then a war with a country that, well...have you ever seen Russia on the map?

Some 300 spartans shit right here. I feel bad for Zelensky. Life didn't prepare him for this, he is handling this surprisingly well.
By the way, not only our president is a comedian, the mayor of Kyiv is Vitaly Klichko, the heavyweight box champion. We sure love our celebrity candidates. If Ukraine somehow makes it out of this in one piece, it will be a great testament to the fact the world will be a much better place without professional politicians and USA better make Dwayne Johnson their next president.

Sorry if this is unneccessarily long.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

From Covid 19 to this? I understand, but this isn't much of a good idea. As easy as it'd sound to die from something as small as this, you're making a critical mistake in thinking you'll be the lucky one. You're more likely to just suffer needlessly.

 

[Istanbulite]

Good luck mate

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

Some 300 spartans shit right here. I feel bad for Zelensky. Life didn't prepare him for this, he is handling this surprisingly well.
By the way, not only our president is a comedian, the mayor of Kyiv is Vitaly Klichko, the heavyweight box champion. We sure love our celebrity candidates. If Ukraine somehow makes it out of this in one piece, it will be a great testament to the fact the world will be a much better place without professional politicians and USA better make Dwayne Johnson their next president.

Sorry if this is unneccessarily long.

Putin: This is MADNESS!
Zelensky: No… THIS IS UKRAINE!!!
*kicks the soldier into the pit*