Venting I'm an Incel, but today a woman stared intensely at me multiple times at the supermarket. I didn't know what to do.

[Ethereal Knight]

I just pretended I didn't see those huge eyes staring at me. Grabbed my purchases and went away. Scared, coward, confused and in disbelief. I know you're not reading this, but I'm sorry.

I'm too afraid and socially awkward to react to that. Don't have the bravery to say the first words, or the self-confidence to stare back, flirt and play.

That's a game I don't even know how to play. I don't really speak that language.

It's like Freud's daughter used to say: "Sex is something we do, sexuality is something we are." Wow. Powerful quote.

My first thought when a girl shows interest is always "Girl, are you out of your mind? Me?! Seriously? You like trash?!"

I was looking decent at the supermarket, stylish, wearing all black like a bad boy, which together with my shocking tattoos, gives the impression that I'm into metal music (which is true). Maybe she's into that too, maybe she just found me beautiful and don't care about music tastes. I'm not too ugly, I'm average (more on that later). But that girl is way above of my league, too beautiful for me, that's why the disbelief.

Part of me thinks I made the right "choice" (even though it wasn't really a choice) by walking away, because I assumed she would instantly lose all interest in me as soon as she learns that I'm a NEET (unemployed and doing "nothing"), sleeping on a hard judo mat in my mom's basement, with no car, no plans, questionable mental health and apparently zero long-term goals (other than death, but I'm not sure if that counts - for them).

I know I could be wrong. I can't predict the future or read minds. Maybe as they say, "not all women are like that" (NAWALT). But as much as we want to believe NAWALT, repetitive frustrating experiences dim our faith darker overtime.

And even if she was (like that), I wouldn't blame her. At all. Sex is serious: it creates people!

If I was on her shoes, why would I want to risk having a baby with a guy who literally lives on the dirty smoking weed and playing videogames? Eating tons of junk food and being negative as fuck? Hey that's me by the way! Their baby would be unhappy.

If that kind of event repeated enough times, we could create a whole society of uncared children - the unhappy people of tomorrow.

Also critizing women doesn't make sense because men do things similar, in their own way. So it's not about gender.

I'm not a "ideological" incel at all. For me, incel means literally involuntary celibate!

I identify as incel because the number of opportunities I get is very low or close to zero. It was different during adolescence and early adulthood, but changed dramatically as my appearance and my level of socialization changed, and as I arrive in my 3rd decade as unproductive as I was as a teen.

I know some say "Hey bro, you're not an incel if you haven't tried". There's some truth to that. Maybe I'm just love-shy and insecure. Weird block prevents me from approaching. I think that approaching is something that is aggressive. Perhaps it is indeed.

Maybe I'm just scared to death of being happy. What if I got what I long for, only then to realize that this is not what would make me happy? The grass is greaner on the other side! Post-marathon depression is real, folks!

I know I'm priviledged. Many of my circunstances can potentially be changed, while there are stuff that people deal with that are literally unchangeable (like height, facial bone structure, p**** size etc)

Maybe some people who identify as incels may actually be MGTOW, and vice versa. Or somewhere in between. The lines may be blur.

Throughout my life I've always been dependent on internet to meet girls. If the date was arranged by an app like Facebook or Tinder, I'd be fine. Really! But if we're strangers on the supermarket, I'm sorry, I'm powerless. Your intense stare won't do anything, I'll just wanna hide in the freezing sector until I become an Iceberg. I can't react to that.

The deepest depths of my unconscious don't even believe you're interested in me - at some deep level I know I'm unworthy.

By the way, thank the sponsors who made this story possible:
My parents! Thank you for ruining my intimate relationships! I hope you're happy seeing me miserable!

Now back to the story, what if the other person is thinking the exact same thing as you - both frozen by the awkwardness of the first moments! And fear of rejection. I see no reason to believe this would be different in women. We all have our ego.

But that girl at the supermarket, I don't even think she missed anything! If we were to have "casual" sex (which I dislike by the way, I prefer having emotional involvement with someone, I think is more natural), she could have this experience with literally anyone. If it's truly "casual", then we're not humans anymore, we don't have our feelings, we're just... masturbating each other? I don't know. That sounds awkward too!

If we would find ourselves in a long-term relationships (LTR), then yes I do have some good qualities for that. I'm loyal, respectful, honest, talkful, very affectionate and I'm able to develop deep feelings. In fact my feelings are so deep, I have mine for my ex 4 years after our break-up and counting!

I'm sorry if I talk too much. I'm just venting. It's true story from today. I also hope some of you can take something good out of it! Have a great week.

(I swer I'm not alt-tabbing between SS and feet pictures as I write this! I hope there's a cookie tracking me to back that up.)

Laughs aside, we here at SS know that not all stories have happy endings, but I really want some of them to have. I really don't wanna die alone.

 

[Doombox]

I would kinda put it on her to have taken things beyond just starting intently at you if she was interested. Pretending to bump into you to say sorry can start a natural conversation. If you were looking at soup, asking if there's one you recommend. So many possibilities in a supermarket it's ridiculous. But just staring intently at you? I think many people would say that just being stared at is uncomfortable particularly if there are no other clues offered. We are at heart animals and our animal selves are not comfortable with an intense stare, which is psychologically taken as a challenge between apex predators. Your desire to escape the stare was innate. I would have done the same thing. In fact I would have been pretty irritated. I'm too old to be expected to read minds.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

No one gets anything in this world without actually going after it. You have to garner the courage to act and be willing to take the rejection as it comes until, eventually, you end up with the success. No pain, no gain, as they say. You don't get hurt by not trying. You just don't get.

 

[Cathy Ames]

I can't tell how serious you are or are not being, OP. But you did make me chuckle when you thanked the sponsors.

 

[Euthanza]

People have different sexual taste, that's all I can say but it's real, you'll never know what they're into until you try to embrace.
You have a built in radar, sometimes it only needs a smile back to know what it means. If tinder and fb can get you laid then go for it, it's your way comfortably.

 

[Un-]

I sometimes get stared at by women in public, but here's a game I play to guarantee that I don't misinterpret things, and not make a fool of myself:

Let's say you were at a bar, drinking by yourself, and an attractive woman from the other side is staring at you with their friends, and it seems like they're talking about you.
What's the worst that could happen?
Well, it could be that they're making fun of how you look. It's better to just leave.

Let's say you're eating in an empty restaurant, and an attractive woman walks in. She looks at you, gives you a wink, and sits in a corner by herself, all while not removing eye contact.
What's the worst thing that could happen?
She's probably filming a prank in public, and you're her victim. It's best just to leave that restaurant, and never go back there.

I wish I could say I wasn't joking about this, heh. I would do the same thing you did, because she could just be staring into space contemplating something, or maybe you had something on your face or body that amused her somehow. If she really wanted to signal something, she'd say something. We're not in third year.

 

[Doombox]

I sometimes get stared at by women in public, but here's a game I play to guarantee that I don't misinterpret things, and not make a fool of myself:

Let's say you were at a bar, drinking by yourself, and an attractive woman from the other side is staring at you with their friends, and it seems like they're talking about you.
What's the worst that could happen?
Well, it could be that they're making fun of how you look. It's better to just leave.

Let's say you're eating in an empty restaurant, and an attractive woman walks in. She looks at you, gives you a wink, and sits in a corner by herself, all while not removing eye contact.
What's the worst thing that could happen?
She's probably filming a prank in public, and you're her victim. It's best just to leave that restaurant, and never go back there.

I wish I could say I wasn't joking about this, heh. I would do the same thing you did, because she could just be staring into space contemplating something, or maybe you had something on your face or body that amused her somehow. If she really wanted to signal something, she'd say something. We're not third year.

Your scenario #1 sounds typical, a group of loaded friends emboldening each other to bad behavior. #2 sounds like Trouble with a capital T. I don't think it's necessary to create a self-deprecating narrative, though. You could just have a policy that in the absence of unequivocal evidence of interest, you are going to decline to respond to being stared at. Stay at the bar, don't leave...get out your phone and read something; be obviously uninterested in game-playing. Let them all make fools of themselves. Your last two sentences say it all.

 

[Superdeterminist]

No one gets anything in this world without actually going after it. You have to garner the courage to act and be willing to take the rejection as it comes until, eventually, you end up with the success. No pain, no gain, as they say. You don't get hurt by not trying. You just don't get.

That's untrue. Sometimes it falls into one's lap.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

That's untrue. Sometimes it falls into one's lap.

You know, I can only base my opinions from my own life experiences, and I can tell you nothing has ever fallen into my lap. Even when I tried, I got nothing for it.

 

[Zegers]

Well, a girl looking at you doesn't mean anything, anyway, even if i was a guy hemsworth-type i wouldn't talk to random people on street, it's a bit awkward, if you were a cool guy would you be chasing girls down the street? no, daygame -in general- is a losers game.

If you're physically advantaged that helps a lot, people treat you better but life as a below-average guy i guarantee you it's miserable and you get a vip pass on loneliness.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

You know, I can only base my opinions from my own life experiences, and I can tell you nothing has ever fallen into my lap. Even when I tried, I got nothing for it.

I guess I try and look at the world around me and think "wow this person's had it easy!"
Think of Elon Musk's children and how well off they are by having a billionaire father. I know this doesn't relate to E. Knight's quandry but yeah.
I don't know. I've had it pretty easy too.

 

[GlassAlwaysEmpty]

I just avoid eye contact as much as possible, especially if they're an attractive girl.
I don't want to give any vibes off that i'm interested in them. They're times when I do make eye contact, even smiled at when I do and me being the awkward idiot i am, I look away as quickly as possible and mind my own business.

The girls i've been close to in the past have always lost interest in me relatively quickly once they realize what a mess I am, so I'm just avoiding more heartache.

 

[Cosmic dust]

It seems to me that you are just being too hard on yourself and overthinking stuff.

You are unworthy? Who said that and why does that matter? You have no idea of what issues and standards any of these girls might have and anyway, its up to the other person to decide if you are worth or not for her. Its pointless to make this kind of judgement and you are accomplishing nothing but putting yourself down.

I guess its common for an incel to feel pressured to not miss any oportunity, but really, just because somone found you attractive enough to look at, doesn`t mean that this person wants to have sex or anything else, and even if she wanted, you don`t need to do anything, you don`t need to know what to do, you don`t have any obligation with anyone or to achieve anything there, the girl could also have approached you too, if she wanted it, but she choose not to, she could also have rejected any kind of approach, its not something that is entirely up to you.

 

[Ethereal Knight]

I wish there was a good dating website out there, or that Tinder wasn't an evil company, run by money-hungry sociopaths who just want to profit, while intentionally programming every algorithm to aggressively induce you to give them money and to keep you from getting in a solid relationship or from finding what you're looking for, so that they can make you more dependent on them.

it is worse than a bad company, they are evil! and are actively making society worse every day. I don't care about entrepreneurs having big profits if it's a voluntary exchange, like this one is, but it's clear that an exclusively profit-driven company or economy will naturally lack moral boundaries.

there aren't incentives for being humane and benevolent when doing this reduces stockholders' profits.

I know these are big statements and accusations on Tinder, but I won't go into too much detail for the reasons here, because they're sneaky: their options, their algorithms... although they're harming society, developers are smart enough to pretend and make it seem like they aren't. just like a sociopath. but I believe that people who used the app and paid enough attention will know what I'm talking about. You can see for yourself if you want.

I can't believe that one day I'd praise Meta on something, but Facebook Dating is a million times better than Tinder. at least for now, maybe they'll change when they get enough users and start making more money.

@Doombox, the reason I wouldn't "put it on her to have started a conversation" is because I think that's how girls work in the real life: they give hints by doings things like staring or even saying "hi" as they walk by, while at the same time they wait for you to take the first step (or we may call it the "second" step). I've seen the same movie countless times with other guys and me, but that's just my experience.

it's true that people have different sexual tastes, @euthanza. I find girls with a big belly or who are overweight in the stomach attractive, while many guys don't. I know there are those who find extremely skinny people beautiful, while I don't. taste is so personal.

I can't see why or how "day-game is a loser's game", like you said, @Zegers. cool, alpha, super rich and famous guys don't chase women anywhere, not even in clubs and parties.

also, if you wanted to find a long-term relationship, wouldn't it make sense to meet people at a library or church instead of at a party full of alcohol and short-term hedonism? I'm just wondering.

I sometimes get stared at by women in public, but here's a game I play to guarantee that I don't misinterpret things, and not make a fool of myself:

Let's say you were at a bar, drinking by yourself, and an attractive woman from the other side is staring at you with their friends, and it seems like they're talking about you.
What's the worst that could happen?
Well, it could be that they're making fun of how you look. It's better to just leave.

Let's say you're eating in an empty restaurant, and an attractive woman walks in. She looks at you, gives you a wink, and sits in a corner by herself, all while not removing eye contact.
What's the worst thing that could happen?
She's probably filming a prank in public, and you're her victim. It's best just to leave that restaurant, and never go back there.

I wish I could say I wasn't joking about this, heh. I would do the same thing you did, because she could just be staring into space contemplating something, or maybe you had something on your face or body that amused her somehow. If she really wanted to signal something, she'd say something. We're not in third year.

I think it's worse than that, @Un-, sometimes a guy who tries to talk to a strange girl gets wrongly accused of harassment or stalking. I know there are real harassment cases, but there are also the fake ones in which the accuser intentionally lied and manipulated authorities.

sometimes it also happens that the woman who is staring at you is actually married. so you innocently approach trying to talk, only to have their husband appearing and starting beating or shooting you. this actually happened multiple times with multiple people, even with guys who just asked for time or directions, it's way more common than people imagine.

although I agree that sometimes staying shy and not approaching at all may be kinda irrational, @locked*n*loaded, 'cause most people won't attack you if you just talk to them. you may even find love and stay a decade together, something that wouldn't have happened if you just crossed the street without trying to connect.

The girls i've been close to in the past have always lost interest in me relatively quickly once they realize what a mess I am, so I'm just avoiding more heartache.

same for me. maybe we're better off that way, without long-term relationships or even dating at all.

at least this way, we can focus wholeheartedly on our hobbies and goals. loneliness and sadness tend to hit busy people less.

and even if she wanted, you don`t need to do anything, you don`t need to know what to do, you don`t have any obligation with anyone or to achieve anything there

that's so true.

and life without romance and sex can be happy too.

but we need to believe that it can, and always remind ourselves: it can.

 

[Banshee]

I have no idea what I just read but what I took away from it is that you might be EXTREMELY overthinking it. Also, you seem insanely hard on yourself.

I'm not someone who normally criticises people or a group but the whole "incel" thing is a pretty ridiculous idea. When the fact sex workers exist, it literally makes being an incel impossible. I know the most common defence used is "I don't want meaningless sex, it has to be emotional".. That's a you problem, you need to work on making yourself into someone would want to create an emotional bond with. And just an FYI, just because people are dating or married doesn't mean everytime they have sex it's emotional. Quite often with the women I've dated, sometimes we don't don't want to have some deep emotional session, sometimes she just wants her back blown out right quick before she has to go do some running around, other times I just want to get off and she'd let me hit it while she's reading a book or sending work emails. Don't get your fantasies of love and sex from movies and television.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

that's so true.

and life without romance and sex can be happy too.

but we need to believe that it can, and always remind ourselves: it can.

I know it doesn't mean much but I believe in you. Maybe our capacity to love exceeds our limitations as human beings. I believe in you.

 

[Superdeterminist]

I know the most common defence used is "I don't want meaningless sex, it has to be emotional".. That's a you problem, you need to work on making yourself into someone would want to create an emotional bond with.

So basically "If no one loves you, then that's on you"

I don't think it's that simple. The fault doesn't lie squarely on any one person's shoulders

 

[Banshee]

So basically "If no one loves you, then that's on you"

I don't think it's that simple. The fault doesn't lie squarely on any one person's shoulders

Literally yes.

How could you pass the blame on to someone else? I'm having a hard time understanding the logic behind it.

You don't fall in love with someone because you want to, you fall in love with someone because of the person's personality, the way they make you feel, and the way they look.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Literally yes.

How could you pass the blame on to someone else? I'm having a hard time understanding the logic behind it.

You don't fall in love with someone because you want to, you fall in love with someone because of the person's personality, the way they make you feel, and the way they look.

I just said that the blame doesn't lie on anyone in particular. Love is a two-player affair, so you can't say one person of those two is solely responsible for any love or lack thereof. This is like blaming a food for tasting bad, even though the 'badness' depends on the taster's subjective tastes. Also, there are no qualities which a person could have, that will guarantee that they receive love. Not to mention the fact that we can't choose which qualities we possess in the first place.​

 

[Cosmic dust]

I have no idea what I just read but what I took away from it is that you might be EXTREMELY overthinking it. Also, you seem insanely hard on yourself.

I'm not someone who normally criticises people or a group but the whole "incel" thing is a pretty ridiculous idea. When the fact sex workers exist, it literally makes being an incel impossible. I know the most common defence used is "I don't want meaningless sex, it has to be emotional".. That's a you problem, you need to work on making yourself into someone would want to create an emotional bond with. And just an FYI, just because people are dating or married doesn't mean everytime they have sex it's emotional. Quite often with the women I've dated, sometimes we don't don't want to have some deep emotional session, sometimes she just wants her back blown out right quick before she has to go do some running around, other times I just want to get off and she'd let me hit it while she's reading a book or sending work emails. Don't get your fantasies of love and sex from movies and television.

The "incel thing" is actually more about many other things than about the sex itself.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

The "incel thing" is actually more about many other things than about the sex itself.

It's just a word meant to convey "lonely guy" or a forever alone type of guy. This kind of person has existed in human history since forever.

 

[Banshee]

It's just a word meant to convey "lonely guy" or a forever alone type of guy. This kind of person has existed in human history since forever.

I don't agree that it just means "a lonely guy". Incel is short for "involuntary celibacy" keyword being "involuntary". Calling yourself an incel is trying to place the blame on someone else.

 

[Julgran]

I don't agree that it just means "a lonely guy". Incel is short for "involuntary celibacy" keyword being "involuntary". Calling yourself an incel is trying to place the blame on someone else.

What you are describing is the media's take on the issue. Being an "incel" is just a state of being which anyone can be in.

Since the media pathologizes everything that's abnormal - including suicide - you should know better than to carry water for them.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

I don't agree that it just means "a lonely guy". Incel is short for "involuntary celibacy" keyword being "involuntary". Calling yourself an incel is trying to place the blame on someone else.

Yeah, sure. That's what the word officially means. But like all Internet lingo, it has lost its meaning a long time ago. For all intents and purposes, it DOES just mean a lonely guy imo because the plight of the incel goes beyond just losing your virginity or having sex.

 

[Banshee]

Yeah, sure. That's what the word officially means. But like all Internet lingo, it has lost its meaning a long time ago. For all intents and purposes, it DOES just mean a lonely guy imo because the plight of the incel goes beyond just losing your virginity or having sex.

It's more associated with the "you don't want to talk to me? That's fine, you're an ugly slut anyway, I tried to being nice but you're a whore that only goes for asshole, kill yourself cunt" kinda guys. You know, the school shooter types.

 

[Ethereal Knight]

I don't agree that it just means "a lonely guy". Incel is short for "involuntary celibacy" keyword being "involuntary". Calling yourself an incel is trying to place the blame on someone else.

the word "involuntary" doesn't necessarily mean that you're being forced by other people.

you could also be forced by circunstances, by fate etc…

some of the circunstances are completely outside our control, others are not.

the dictionary's definition of involuntary is this:
1: independent of one's will; not by one's own choice.
2: unintentional; unconscious.
etc…

no one said that the problem is other people. in my opinion, blaming or scapegoating is useless, as it doesn't solve problems - it just creates more.

 

[whatevs]

In short, fear has made your life small, dull, and regrettable, but you try to paint your behavior as sensible in your mind. At the end of the day this pattern leaves you alone and empty.

My two cents as another coward which has managed to live at times.

 

[Mr2005]

You know, I can only base my opinions from my own life experiences, and I can tell you nothing has ever fallen into my lap. Even when I tried, I got nothing for it.

From my own life experience I know you regret more what you didn't do. Saying no to things has got me nowhere

 

[Mixo]

It's entirely possible you're not an incel, particularly if you haven't developed stupid, rigid expectations regarding women and what they want/how they act/etc. I'm pretty confident in saying that leaning into inceldom or even self-identifying really will not do you any good unless you're seeking out questionable community ideals to be a part of and most likely will just degrade your sense of self-worth even further in the long term.

It sounds like you just have low self-esteem and need to develop a bit of confidence and trust that maybe you are worth dating, in spite of how little you think you can offer. Some of this requires making serious life choices to challenge hardened negative beliefs about yourself. But also, the idea of waiting until you're some idealized perfect version of yourself is also going to be a losing game. Either way, it's okay to just smile back to her, say hello, and seek out a bond, even if you feel you can't offer the world. Hopefully the fact that she was checking you out felt like a good rush in some way and a challenge to your negative self beliefs. It's always fun to flirt.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

It's more associated with the "you don't want to talk to me? That's fine, you're an ugly slut anyway, I tried to being nice but you're a whore that only goes for asshole, kill yourself cunt" kinda guys. You know, the school shooter types.

Sure, so it's a good thing OP isn't like how you described an incel to be just now.

In short, fear has made your life small, dull, and regrettable, but you try to paint your behavior as sensible in your mind. At the end of the day this pattern leaves you alone and empty.

My two cents as another coward which has managed to live at times.

What do you mean by 'live'?