If you're not vegan, what prevents you from being one?

[Lapdog6795]

Unless you're talking about parasitic funghi or something with an invasive root system I really can't think of any examples of trees and plants causing suffering for their own survival.

Plants, trees, algae, some bacteria, they all compete with each other for light, water, and nutrients. They suppress or outcompete others for limited resources and hinder the survival or reproduction of others, a form of harm or killing by out-resourcing.

Fungi and many microorganisms get energy by consuming other organisms, whether living or dead.

I know this is a classic philosophical debate but I really think the definition of "suffering" is too broad in this case.

Where would you draw the line then and based on what? Like The Actual Devil mentioned in this post.

My philosophy: Hierachies matter. We all cause the suffering of something beneath us, but then at the bottom of that is the beauty of nature which can withstand suffering, and you can hack up plants to your heart's content and no suffering is really "felt."

I lean more towards philosophical pessimism and antinatalism, and don't see beauty in nature. All I see is one organism consuming or outcompeting other for survival. And why suffering of plant should be considered less important than a chicken?

I don't think plants can have the suffering you're talking about because there's no circuit board on their head. That's where the suffering is felt, really.

Who are we to decide? and are we 100% sure?

 

[road2joy]

Plants, trees, algae, some bacteria, they all compete with each other for light, water, and nutrients. They suppress or outcompete others for limited resources and hinder the survival or reproduction of others, a form of harm or killing by out-resourcing.

Fungi and many microorganisms get energy by consuming other organisms, whether living or dead.

Where would you draw the line then and based on what? Like The Actual Devil mentioned in this post.

I lean more towards philosophical pessimism and antinatalism, and don't see beauty in nature. All I see is one organism consuming or outcompeting other for survival. And why suffering of plant should be considered less important than a chicken?

Who are we to decide? and are we 100% sure?

I am also antinatalist, especially during 2020-era, but very open to the idea of loving people having children. I just don't think they exist at the moment in any kind of significant number. If a loving person has kids, that kid might get ripped apart in this world of assholes.

Where do I draw the line, where do I draw the line... I'd say to cause suffering to another would entail some kind of stimulation. Mechanical stimulation, for example, pressure, pinching, cutting; Thermal stimuli, e.g., heat or cold above normal thresholds; Chemical stimuli causing some kind of inflammation or injury. This is true suffering in my opinion.

 

[The Actual Devil]

I lean more towards philosophical pessimism and antinatalism, and don't see beauty in nature.

Just responding because I gave your post a and wanted to clarify (for anyone who cares, lol) that this quoted part is the only thing I disagree with. Very politely, though. I wouldn't have disagreed with this part a few years ago, so I wholeheartedly sympathize with your point of view.

Nowadays, I see beauty in nature. But it is distributed evenly, from wild animals, pets, and livestock, to wildflowers, crops, and gardens.

I was a very skinny and malnourished young child because it pained me to be a part of the food chain at all. I had to learn selective empathy to not starve to death, and I still practice it as a means of survival. If I ever turn it off (the selective empathy), like when I'm overthinking, I find that I cannot eat anything again, whether it's beef or potatoes.

 

[badkarma4618]

i was vegan for 9 years but moved to a small remote town up north where there are extremely limited options for grocery shopping and all my staple foods are unavailable and fresh fruits and veggies cost a fortune. i imagine not only scarce availability but also the insane inflation felt in grocery stores may be a dealbreaker for those on the fence.

 

[Rynalia]

I like meat. A lot.

I'm also not a good person.

Even less likely to want to consider it because people have had some sorta weird fascination with trying to guilt trip me via moral arguments.

Like. How about no!

(⁠.⁠ ⁠❛⁠ ⁠ᴗ⁠ ⁠❛⁠.⁠)