I still wish i was american

[WoAiGou]

I'm sure that the gulag history museum is a non-valid source, sure. The holocaust museum is also lying by that logic?
And it's not as if a quick google search could show you hundreds of sources on the horrors of the gulags, china's mega projects and other stuff. I was only presenting them in the most digestible way.

But believe me, after coming out of the communist cult and their history revisionism, I've learned better than to trust popular socialists. They are extremely biased and can't take their rose tinted glasses for a single second, even when confronted with real criticism and historical context.

The Soviet Union was a threat to the capitalist world order, there's incentive to lie and embellish in order to demonize socialism. Was the Holocaust a threat to capitalism? I could find sources on Google saying the US isn't racist and that Covid isn't real or is overblown. Information on the internet by itself doesn't mean anything. You act as though I'm saying the Soviet Union and modern China are paradises, not at all. Just saying you should actually examine the world you live in, a world which has been shaped by capitalist forces for the last 70 years. You can read that book if you want plenty of sources in there.

 

[Fragile]

The Soviet Union was a threat to the capitalist world order, there's incentive to lie and embellish in order to demonize socialism. Was the Holocaust a threat to capitalism? I could find sources on Google saying the US isn't racist and that Covid isn't real or is overblown. Information on the internet by itself doesn't mean anything. You act as though I'm saying the Soviet Union and modern China are paradises, not at all. Just saying you should actually examine the world you live in, a world which has been shaped by capitalist forces for the last 70 years. You can read that book if you want plenty of sources in there.

Not everything on the internet is real, that goes both ways.

So I'll talk about my own experience then.

I live in a country that is literally neighboring the failed socialist state of Venezuela, which left us with 3 million+ migrants who preferred shithole Colombia over their country, think about that statement for a second, narco infested, crime ridden, politically violent, with over 70 years of war against terrorist communists, over a nation that once was one of the top economies of the region with very high standards of living in some areas and sitting in the largest petroleum reserves in history. Why Colombia is a better place is a mystery for sure...

I have some Chinese friends who managed to find much better living conditions in European and north American countries. They also taught me some funny words to refer to western woke socialists.

I've talked to Cubans who told me about their very amicable regime and how much they wish that that shit doesn't happen in here.

Poor souls, they were stupid enough to leave these socialist paradises to join crapitalism.

As I said before, capitalism is dogshit, that I believe, but you can't even begin to compare it to the horrors of socialist regimes or the economic failure of this system. Or maybe I'm just a CIA agent who's only purpose is to misinform people in an obscure suicide forum, because everyone knows that every single negative aspect of socialism is the fault of others.

 

[WoAiGou]

Not everything on the internet is real, that goes both ways.

So I'll talk about my own experience then.

I live in a country that is literally neighboring the failed socialist state of Venezuela, which left us with 3 million+ migrants who preferred shithole Colombia over their country, think about that statement for a second, narco infested, crime ridden, politically violent, with over 70 years of war against terrorist communists, over a nation that once was one of the top economies of the region with very high standards of living in some areas and sitting in the largest petroleum reserves in history. Why Colombia is a better place is a mystery for sure...

I have some Chinese friends who managed to find much better living conditions in European and north American countries. They also taught me some funny words to refer to western woke socialists.

I've talked to Cubans who told me about their very amicable regime and how much they wish that that shit doesn't happen in here.

Poor souls, they were stupid enough to leave these socialist paradises to join crapitalism.

As I said before, capitalism is dogshit, that I believe, but you can't even begin to compare it to the horrors of socialist regimes or the economic failure of this system. Or maybe I'm just a CIA agent who's only purpose is to misinform people in an obscure suicide forum, because everyone knows that every single negative aspect of socialism is the fault of others.

now we're on to the anecdotal stage of arguments?

I know 12,545 people in China who love their lives and are proud of their government.

I know 45 Cubans who are descended of people who were slaves under Batista who are proud of their government for liberating their ancestors.

I know 325 Russians who miss the days of the Soviet Union.

I know 18 Koreans who are proud of how their country rebuilt under socialism following the Korean War.

See how this nonsense isn't an argument?

Argue the merits of the systems. Socialism = worker ownership of means of production either directly or through a state apparatus. Capitalism = private ownership of the means of production with a focus centered around profit.

If you hate socialism you hate yourself.

 

[Fragile]

Not everything on the internet is real, that goes both ways.

now we're on to the anecdotal stage of arguments?

I know 12,545 people in China who love their lives and are proud of their government.

I know 45 Cubans who are descended of people who were slaves under Batista who are proud of their government for liberating their ancestors.

I know 325 Russians who miss the days of the Soviet Union.

I know 18 Koreans who are proud of how their country rebuilt under socialism following the Korean War.

See how this nonsense isn't an argument?

Argue the merits of the systems. Socialism = worker ownership of means of production either directly or through a state apparatus. Capitalism = private ownership of the means of production with a focus centered around profit.

Your historical knowledge and data are wrong, also your perspective is wrong, also, your anecdotical evidence is wrong. Mine are right

You are being impossible. Have it your way, you'll probably grow out of those beliefs once you take away the rose tinted glasses and acknowledge the flaws in both sides. I know my perspective changed once I woke up from my cringy communist ideals.
I'll ask you to name a successful and curently socialist country without concentration camps or horrible repression, but you'll certainly pull some BS, so let's agree to disagree.

If you hate socialism you hate yourself.

Lmao, I deeply despise myself, but hating socialism and totalitarianism is one of the few things that make me happy to look in the mirror.

 

[WoAiGou]

Your historical knowledge and data are wrong, also your perspective is wrong, also, your anecdotical evidence is wrong. Mine are right

You are being impossible. Have it your way, you'll probably grow out of those beliefs once you take away the rose tinted glasses and acknowledge the flaws in both sides. I know my perspective changed once I woke up from my cringy communist ideals.
I'll ask you to name a successful and curently socialist country without concentration camps or horrible repression, but you'll certainly pull some BS, so let's agree to disagree.

Lmao, I deeply despise myself, but hating socialism and totalitarianism is one of the few things that make me happy to look in the mirror.

I was a racist capitalist supporting conservative for 20 years I doubt I'm returning to that. China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos all succeeding. But I'm sure you'll link some bbc first link on Google article about concentration camps in China. I live in USA and the amount of homeless people I see daily is sickening, is not oppression and totalitarianism?

 

[Kristicide]

America has a lot of flaws. Just like every other country on earth. But i have accepted those flaws a long time ago and I can't shake the feeling of wishing i was born there.

I was born into a lower-middle class family in the suburbs. Growing up my favorite channels were Cartoon Network, Disney Juniors, and some regular channels which aired some classic 2000's American movies. My parents weren't religious back then, so those movies really shaped my worldview into becoming who i am as a person today.

I am full of Western Ideology. It was bound to happen that i feel disconnected from the locals as I do not share their Eastern ideology. I don't feel like i belong here. I'm too liberal for them and nothing will ever change that. I want to go but that's like impossible unless you're ready to risk everything. I don't know if i'm ever gonna be ready for that.

But gosh i wish i was American. Even with broken healthcare, politics, and education system... I still want to hold the flag and proudly say that i am a patriot to The United States of America. To proudly say that my country fought for its freedom against Great Britain and won the second world war after a long period of isolation from the Old World. To be on the same side as The Founding Fathers when they first started a rebellion against the world's biggest imperialists—the British Monarchy which later leads to the French Revolution. To be able to hear those incredible speeches and feel included in its narrative. To be an American who seeks to improve their country no matter what. I wish to be born like that.

Thanks for reading and have a good day! :]

More than anything I wish I wasn't an American. I'm fucking embarrassed for this shitty country.

 

[callme]

You all know none of the relevant countries today are governed by either system right? And nobody in those countries has discourse anywhere similar to how you do. If at all.

The US always was a mixed-market economy based on classical liberalism principles, not democratic, not conservative and not necessarily capitalist. This was the case for Teddy Roosevelt, the closest to a socialist president, although mildly. More democratic socialist.

Russia is an authoritarian capitalist country with elements of a police state (de-facto, not derogatory). So are Poland, Hungary and Turkey. All these countries technically achieve things and are more of an example of working systems than the one you consider, putting away the moral side of their policies (concerning destabilizing the EU, proxy wars, highly statist, centralised power).

They don't need to invest trillions on foreign policy to do that.

China is weird. A mixed, wholly centrally planned, targeted distribution economy, governed by a dengist model. That is democratic socialism, conservative socialism socialism and state capitalism, under Xi Winnie the Pooh sometimes culturally variable. A syncretic system.

Much of what is apparent in the US as problems isn't in those places and as much as their citizens are unaware of how much danger will set upon their country, because they are often largely stuck in the past, comfortably, they have a much more nationalist, central and aggressive view of their country and attribute everything to it.

Proportionally they have high percentages of available for military conscription young people who are ready to die for their country in combat. This percentage in China is 71 if I remember correctly. Even if a much larger sample is polled and the percentage drops in half, that's still 35% and imagine how much people it is.

Also, the axis are definitely in favour of Russia and China. Much more countries would support Russia than America in a war. Military expenditure and exports may be smaller, but the countries supplied to is also, much more.

And of course, over the course of Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, we learned America was largely inefficient as a large force. Tactical units and federal agencies have had limited success, for little gain. Nothing to gain by capturing and killing Ben Laden after 9/11. Terrorist cells are popping up all over the place, like the vietcong out of rice fields. And all Americans can do is sadly, record a shooting at a mosque live on Facebook.

In other words, they have you by the balls and are pulling harder than you pull theirs. (Unfortunately?) America loses.

 

[Grav]

Gulags more humane? US prisons are nothing I want to be in but to say that Stalin's gulag system (and before Stalin) was on par with Germany's camps. The only difference the gulags didn't "actively" aim to kill you, just set up every condition to do so. People rounded up for Soviet economic idiocy isn't happening here yet. Yes end the drug war and reform that and the #'s in the US drop.

The US is no paradise but at least there's a potential to change and evolve. It's not that it's perfect here. Most countries would be good if you got rid of some of the gov't goofballs and their ideas.

 

[blueclover_.]

I was a racist capitalist supporting conservative for 20 years I doubt I'm returning to that. China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos all succeeding. But I'm sure you'll link some bbc first link on Google article about concentration camps in China. I live in USA and the amount of homeless people I see daily is sickening, is not oppression and totalitarianism?

Lmao keep on telling yourself that, American. You guys for sure think your country is #1 in everything, better it be a good thing or a bad thing. Listen, to support socialism/communism without experiencing the reality of it, you're privileged as fuck.

 

[WoAiGou]

Lmao keep on telling yourself that, American. You guys for sure think your country is #1 in everything, better it be a good thing or a bad thing. Listen, to support socialism/communism without experiencing the reality of it, you're privileged as fuck.

What does privilege have to do with anything I've been saying? If socialism is so bad, and I'm so privileged under capitalism in America, why would I advocate for socialism?

 

[Grey-zoner]

Not everything on the internet is real, that goes both ways.

So I'll talk about my own experience then.

I live in a country that is literally neighboring the failed socialist state of Venezuela, which left us with 3 million+ migrants who preferred shithole Colombia over their country, think about that statement for a second, narco infested, crime ridden, politically violent, with over 70 years of war against terrorist communists, over a nation that once was one of the top economies of the region with very high standards of living in some areas and sitting in the largest petroleum reserves in history. Why Colombia is a better place is a mystery for sure...

I have some Chinese friends who managed to find much better living conditions in European and north American countries. They also taught me some funny words to refer to western woke socialists.

I've talked to Cubans who told me about their very amicable regime and how much they wish that that shit doesn't happen in here.

Poor souls, they were stupid enough to leave these socialist paradises to join crapitalism.

As I said before, capitalism is dogshit, that I believe, but you can't even begin to compare it to the horrors of socialist regimes or the economic failure of this system. Or maybe I'm just a CIA agent who's only purpose is to misinform people in an obscure suicide forum, because everyone knows that every single negative aspect of socialism is the fault of others.

More people should listen to immigrants in the US who've come from countries like Cuba, Venezuela, etc... I definitely agree that most forms of capitalism are dogshit, and the US is not that great in comparison to Denmark, but any observer of Venezuela or Cuba couldn't really believe that classic leftist Marxism is a sane socioeconomic model to run with.
Still, I'm all for regulations, taxation, and reform--of the healthcare system in particular, and in the long run the end of the 40-hour work-week, which was progressive... in 1950. I digress.