I still wish i was american

[blueclover_.]

I agree with you, but in my case I would prefer to be Canadian and live in Vancouver.

It's my plan to move to Canada as well. Canadian accent is very similar to the standard American accent and the cultures don't differ much. Canada is basically the better version of the US at least imo. The people are very polite and respectful. I love Canadians!

As an American....

U.S. Regime Has Killed 20-30 Million People since World War II

22 Mar 2018 - We must continue our efforts to develop understanding and compassion in the world. Hopefully, this article will assist in doing that by addressing the question “How many September 11ths has the United States caused in other nations since WWII?” This theme is developed in this...

www.transcend.org

Every country on earth has killed and invaded other countries (side-eyeing the UK). France, India, The Mongols, The Moors, empires were built on corpses. So to only blame the US is kind of biased.

 

[WoAiGou]

Every country on earth has killed and invaded other countries (side-eyeing the UK). France, India, The Mongols, The Moors, empires were built on corpses. So to only blame the US is kind of biased.

Yes but the US, being the global hegemon is largely responsible for the direction of the world post WW2. The US did everything in their power to ensure socialism was never able to succeed. The US could've chose to ally with China and the Soviet Union and this world would probably look like a paradise, instead capitalism remains, and it's looking like human civilization will collapse as a result of capitalism fueled climate change.

 

[blueclover_.]

Yes but the US, being the global hegemon is largely responsible for the direction of the world post WW2. The US did everything in their power to ensure socialism was never able to succeed. The US could've chose to ally with China and the Soviet Union and this world would probably look like a paradise, instead capitalism remains, and it's looking like human civilization will collapse as a result of capitalism fueled climate change.

I'm sure the world would've been worse had the Soviet Union took over the world. Communism and socialism are two very different things. Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's better than any other economic system in the current world.

 

[demuic]

Your tone and text suggest a form of idolatry, though, and that can be problematic. In fact, I think a lot of Americans have taken their patriotism and turned it into idolatry, which is a big reason for many of the nation's problems right now. It's important to understand that the people and systems that bring wealth, power, productivity, and even peace, have a negative side to them as well, and that has to be grappled with. Blind nationalism can lead to the destruction of the things that make a country great.

100% this. I think many people grow resentful of the blind nationalism and idolization of this country, and thus turn to pointing out its flaws most aggressively, because these are things that have been historically ignored and erased by people who would only like to see this country as flawless, great, and the best in the world, no improvements needed.

Of course every country has its flaws. Of course most countries have also killed and invaded others. That doesn't make it okay or mean discussing the flaws that exist in a particular country are unnecessary or irrelevant.

There are good things about US, no doubt. Freedom of speech and freedom from religion are some of those values that are not a luxury that can be found in every country, and with these things being increasingly threatened across the world, many are grateful to have these freedoms. But there are also many bad things about the US, and it's those bad things that people have to experience first hand, that are routinely ignored and brushed away, that can make one bitter to the idea of national pride.

I don't like the idea of blind nationalism to any country, but the US gets the brunt of my contempt, because naturally that is where I live and what I am familiar with, and that seems to be the case for other people as well.

 

[Fragile]

Yes but the US, being the global hegemon is largely responsible for the direction of the world post WW2. The US did everything in their power to ensure socialism was never able to succeed. The US could've chose to ally with China and the Soviet Union and this world would probably look like a paradise, instead capitalism remains, and it's looking like human civilization will collapse as a result of capitalism fueled climate change.

And even if that fantasy happened, what exactly makes you think that people would be less corrupt, less greedy, more amicable to each other, and somehow, no genocidal dictator would've risen to power?

And don't tell me that all the countries that failed in this endeavor did so only because of US influence. There are some major flaws in giving absolute control over people's life to the state. Capitalism may be dogshit, but it's much less likely to end up mirroring the horrors of totalitarianism, which has been an universal constant in communism and most flavors of marxism.

 

[blueclover_.]

And even if that fantasy happened, what exactly makes you think that people would be less corrupt, less greedy, more amicable to each other, and somehow, no genocidal dictator would've risen to power?

And don't tell me that all the countries that failed in this endeavor did so only because of US influence. There are some major flaws in giving absolute control over people's life to the state. Capitalism may be dogshit, but it's much less likely to end up mirroring the horrors of totalitarianism, which has been an universal constant in communism and most flavors of marxism.

Exactly lmao. People praise communism, completely ignoring the whole gulag thing, starvation, and distatorship happening in USSR (and still happening in Russia), China, and North Korea. Like capitalism sucks but sure as hell better than communism.

 

[callme]

I can't begin to describe how much I relate to your post. I, too, live in a backwards country. How conservative everybody here is one of my reasons for wanting to ctb. Like you, I envy Americans and anybody living in a more open-minded environment. Feeling detached from "normal" values and the people around you truly is a miserable experience. I don't know about you, but I feel as if the people "closest" to me don't really know me because I never expose my true beliefs. Most people (here at least), unfortunately, can't accept different viewpoints. I understand how you feel. It's hell.

I am from such a country and yes, they fully admit they are NORMAL (Nation Organised of Related Morons At Large).

I wish I was Finnish. They aren't perfect, they aren't socialist by any means, they aren't necessarily rich. They just don't care about anything.

And they have awesome folk music

 

[blueclover_.]

I am from such a country and yes, they fully admit they are NORMAL (Nation Organised of Related Morons At Large).

I wish I was Finnish. They aren't perfect, they aren't socialist by any means, they aren't necessarily rich. They just don't care about anything.

The Finnish are just finished ;) Great country with walkable icy lakes.

 

[Luchs]

As an American....

U.S. Regime Has Killed 20-30 Million People since World War II

22 Mar 2018 - We must continue our efforts to develop understanding and compassion in the world. Hopefully, this article will assist in doing that by addressing the question “How many September 11ths has the United States caused in other nations since WWII?” This theme is developed in this...

www.transcend.org

If you look at the history of any country you can fo this. Most european countries would have death counts in the hundreds of millions. Death count simply isn't a good way to judge a country.

 

[summers]

@blueclover_. You sound like an awesome person. We could use more people like you in the US. Hope you can make it here one day!

 

[Grav]

I'll say I like being here, at least I don't think any other place is really that much better. Yes you can pick/choose points but if there was one country of unbridled goodness everyone would be flocking there. Everywhere has issues, some worse than others. I don't start digging into history to judge a country, there's a whole ton of dirty laundry that most people want to forget.

 

[blueclover_.]

If you look at the history of any country you can fo this. Most european countries would have death counts in the hundreds of millions. Death count simply isn't a good way to judge a country.

Yeah lmao Europeans are the og colonizers, slave traders, and warlords—yet somehow they blame America for all the bad things in the world. Like have you not look at your own history

 

[Luchs]

Yeah lmao Europeans are the og colonizers, slave traders, and warlords—yet somehow they blame America for all the bad things in the world. Like have you not look at your own history

That wasn't my point. Literally any country or people on earth have a history of violence, because violence is an inherent part of being humans. Be it native Americans, African tribes, Chinese dynasties or European royal houses, murder and oppression is a constant. Everyone enslaved and slaughtered eachother for all of our existance.

 

[WoAiGou]

I'm sure the world would've been worse had the Soviet Union took over the world. Communism and socialism are two very different things. Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's better than any other economic system in the current world.

We are staring down the barrel of total societal breakdown as a result of climate change, which is primarily caused by the for profit system of capitalism. How could the Soviet Union have done a worse job lol? Socialism and communism are very much related, the two terms use to be pretty much interchangeable but in the last few decades socialism has become synonymous with the transitional state towards communism, where the means of production are owned by the workers, and as a result society is dictated by the workers, not the billionaires and corporations.

Exactly lmao. People praise communism, completely ignoring the whole gulag thing, starvation, and distatorship happening in USSR (and still happening in Russia), China, and North Korea. Like capitalism sucks but sure as hell better than communism.

And communism has lifted literally hundreds of millions out of poverty. You need to compare what these countries were like before their communist governments came to power.

And even if that fantasy happened, what exactly makes you think that people would be less corrupt, less greedy, more amicable to each other, and somehow, no genocidal dictator would've risen to power?

And don't tell me that all the countries that failed in this endeavor did so only because of US influence. There are some major flaws in giving absolute control over people's life to the state. Capitalism may be dogshit, but it's much less likely to end up mirroring the horrors of totalitarianism, which has been an universal constant in communism and most flavors of marxism.

What is totalitarianism? I live in the US, is it not totalitarianism that my only choice in life is to work or go harmless and starve? Is it not totalitarianism that half my pay check goes to rent and insurance premiums. Is it not totalitarianism that there such an emphasis on individual 'freedoms' here that there is absolutely zero sense of community and social cohesion? Terms like totalitarianism and authoritarian are just meaningless buzz words meant to disparage socialist societies, where the workers on are top and the billionaires and corporations don't control every aspect of life.

 

[Grey-zoner]

A Communist revolution isn't going to happen. The Soviet Union collapsed. China isn't even Communist. A well-regulated market economy seems like the best bet for the near future-we might just be able to automate a lot of shit jobs and institute UBI in some capacity, but it can only be done if there are adequate provisions and regulations.
The goal is not a workers' paradise, but reducing the amount of work in paradise.

 

[blueclover_.]

That wasn't my point. Literally any country or people on earth have a history of violence, because violence is an inherent part of being humans. Be it native Americans, African tribes, Chinese dynasties or European royal houses, murder and oppression is a constant. Everyone enslaved and slaughtered eachother for all of our existance.

I was agreeing with you :/

We are staring down the barrel of total societal breakdown as a result of climate change, which is primarily caused by the for profit system of capitalism. How could the Soviet Union have done a worse job lol? Socialism and communism are very much related, the two terms use to be pretty much interchangeable but in the last few decades socialism has become synonymous with the transitional state towards communism, where the means of production are owned by the workers, and as a result society is dictated by the workers, not the billionaires and corporations.

And communism has lifted literally hundreds of millions out of poverty. You need to compare what these countries were like before their communist governments came to power.



What is totalitarianism? I live in the US, is it not totalitarianism that my only choice in life is to work or go harmless and starve? Is it not totalitarianism that half my pay check goes to rent and insurance premiums. Is it not totalitarianism that there such an emphasis on individual 'freedoms' here that there is absolutely zero sense of community and social cohesion? Terms like totalitarianism and authoritarian are just meaningless buzz words meant to disparage socialist societies, where the workers on are top and the billionaires and corporations don't control every aspect of life.

Lmao tell that to the air-pollutioning factories that were built in USSR during the Cold War. So much for that communist environmentalism. And would you love being told what to do by the government or else go to the gulag/prison.

 

[Crazy4u]

I hear you and I agree with some members. The US has some issues but it is better than many other places.

I moved to the US from a third world country a few years ago. This is one of the reasons many people told me I am sooooo lucky (I hate being told lucky - a topic for another day)

When I moved here I thought suicidal thoughts will disappear. I went out of my way to work on my life and improve it. My life improved for sure but I am too tired to keep the fight.

I hope you come here one day, or better, find a way to move to Canada as you prefer

Good luck!

 

[WoAiGou]

I was agreeing with you :/

Lmao tell that to the air-pollutioning factories that were built in USSR during the Cold War. So much for that communist environmentalism. And would you love being told what to do by the government or else go to the gulag/prison.

Yeah before the effects and consequences of climate change were fully realized. The west is still polluting like crazy and they are fully aware of the damage climate change will do. China (a socialist country) is currently doing the most out of any country to combat climate change. Capitalist governments don't tell you what to do? I'm told to work or I go homeless and starve. I'm told to pay absurd premiums for shitty health insurance. America has the most people in prison out of any country in world, more people than the gulag system had at its peak. And the gulags were way more humane than American prisons. You should read Black shirts and reds by Michael parenti it dispels a lot of the BS you're saying. Here's a free copy

https://valleysunderground.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/blackshirts-and-reds-by-michael-parenti.pdf

 

[blueclover_.]

Yeah before the effects and consequences of climate change were fully realized. The west is still polluting like crazy and they are fully aware of the damage climate change will do. China (a socialist country) is currently doing the most out of any country to combat climate change. Capitalist governments don't tell you what to do? I'm told to work or I go homeless and starve. I'm told to pay absurd premiums for shitty health insurance. America has the most people in prison out of any country in world, more people than the gulag system had at its peak. And the gulags were way more humane than American prisons. You should read Black shirts and reds by Michael parenti it dispels a lot of the BS you're saying. Here's a free copy

https://valleysunderground.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/blackshirts-and-reds-by-michael-parenti.pdf

Bro China literally has a lot of factories which pollute the air. No matter the economic system, modern humans need factories in order to mass produce.

The only way to combat climate change on a national level is to make environment-friendly products to be affordable and efficient for everyone (including the government, businessmen, and customers). You can achieve this within a capitalist society, you just have to make those products to be popular and well-approved by most people. Climate change can be solved without necessarily changing the whole world into total authoritarian communist society.

 

[Foresight]

We can't combat climate change anymore, we're past the point of no return

 

[WoAiGou]

Bro China literally has a lot of factories which pollute the air. No matter the economic system, modern humans need factories in order to mass produce.

The only way to combat climate change on a national level is to make environment-friendly products to be affordable and efficient for everyone (including the government, businessmen, and customers). You can achieve this within a capitalist society, you just have to make those products to be popular and well-approved by most people. Climate change can be solved without necessarily changing the whole world into total authoritarian communist society.

Never said China was perfect just that they do the most out of any country, look at their renewable energy statistics, their public transportation infrastructure. Climate change cannot be solved with a for profit economic system. We need degrowth not new products, more trains, less cars, more Veganism, less factory farms, no round the world vacations, no new electronics every year etc.

Please give the book a chance

We can't combat climate change anymore, we're past the point of no return

I agree, but I think a global socialist society would be able to mitigate the damage far better than the individualistic capitalist model we have today.

 

[blueclover_.]

Never said China was perfect just that they do the most out of any country, look at their renewable energy statistics, their public transportation infrastructure. Climate change cannot be solved with a for profit economic system. We need degrowth not new products, more trains, less cars, more Veganism, less factory farms, no round the world vacations, no new electronics every year etc.

Please give the book a chance

I agree, but I think a global socialist society would be able to mitigate the damage far better than the individualistic capitalist model we have today.

I disagree. Japan is the proof that a capitalist country can be environmental-friendly with the right products. Basically just throw out fuel, gas, and coal. Stick to electricity, solar/wind/water power sources. Use electric cars, electric train, etc.

Capitalism doesn't necessarily mean that you have to use environmentally-damaging power sources in order to run a society. You can still be a thriving capitalist while using high-tech products which don't damage the environment at all.

 

[WoAiGou]

I disagree. Japan is the proof that a capitalist country can be environmental-friendly with the right products. Basically just throw out fuel, gas, and coal. Stick to electricity, solar/wind/water power sources. Use electric cars, electric train, etc.

Capitalism doesn't necessarily mean that you have to use environmentally-damaging power sources in order to run a society. You can still be a thriving capitalist while using high-tech products which don't damage the environment at all.

The people who are running our societies are the corporations, fossil fuel, animal agriculture, tech etc, what incentive is their for them to make environmentally conscious decisions? They practically own our government, there's no punishment for their actions. Why would they risk their profits? Capitalism's literal definition is an economic system centered around private ownership of means of production with a goal of profit. The environment, welfare of animals and people will always be secondary or non existent in the decision making processes of capitalist.

 

[blueclover_.]

The people who are running our societies are the corporations, fossil fuel, animal agriculture, tech etc, what incentive is their for them to make environmentally conscious decisions? They practically own our government, there's no punishment for their actions. Why would they risk their profits? Capitalism's literal definition is an economic system centered around private ownership of means of production with a goal of profit. The environment, welfare of animals and people will always be secondary or non existent in the decision making processes of capitalist.

You underestimate the power of public reputation. Corporations need their customers in order to make profits.

If most people refuse environmentally-damaging power sources (fuel, gas, coal, etc.), the government will have to take actions which would either ban or limit the usage of those power sources. Corporations then need to resort to environmentally-friendly power sources (electricity/solar/wind/water/etc.) and as the providers of said power sources become more and more common the prices will drop significantly—making them even more popular and affordable for everyone.

It is a lot of work to achieve but not impossible. You just have to convince most people that climate change is real which is hard enough already.

 

[WoAiGou]

You underestimate the power of public reputation. Corporations need their customers in order to make profits.

If most people refuse environmentally-damaging power sources (fuel, gas, coal, etc.), the government will have to take actions which would either ban or limit the usage of those power sources. Corporations then need to resort to environmentally-friendly power sources (electricity/solar/wind/water/etc.) and as the providers of said power sources become more and more common the prices will drop significantly—making them even more popular and affordable for everyone.

It is a lot of work to achieve but not impossible. You just have to convince most people that climate change is real which is hard enough already.

If you want average working people to influence how society is run then why are you against socialism lol?

 

[blueclover_.]

If you want average working people to influence how society is run then why are you against socialism lol?

Because I am against the government controlling major industries and limiting the individual right to own a private property.

Capitalism and the market have always been influenced by the people, you don't have to be a millionaire in order to manipulate stocks prices and send those corporations into panic.

 

[Fragile]

China (a socialist country) is currently doing the most out of any country to combat climate change.

LMAO. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-china-climate-change-biggest-carbon-polluters/
Also, a country known for constantly hiding its carbon footprint. And it's actually working for them, since they are benefiting from other nations getting fucked by climate change and building around it. Like their mega dams in Africa, which will absolutely fuck Egypt, or the one in the Ganges river, this one having the potential to start a huge war due to its massive impact over India.
Here's another one of their projects which will not only move an obscene amount of oil, it also necessarily necessitates the arctic ocean to lose a lot of ice in order to be achievable
The green country of china!

America has the most people in prison out of any country in world, more people than the gulag system had at its peak. And the gulags were way more humane than American prisons. You should read Black shirts and reds by Michael parenti it dispels a lot of the BS you're saying. Here's a free copy

https://valleysunderground.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/blackshirts-and-reds-by-michael-parenti.pdf

Unbelievable that you unironically believe the gulags to be more humane than any US prison, they were akin to German concentration camps in many ways. "Up to 17 million people were sent to the Gulag, the notorious Soviet prison camp system, in the 1930s and 1940s, and at least 5 million of them were convicted on false testimony. The prison population in the sprawling labor camps peaked at 2 million people" https://apnews.com/article/b2adacb992004f4aaa4c739ec3f4629a
Those are conservative estimates btw.

Also, humane as fuck

Literally known as Stalin's cannibal island... Yeah.

You should read Black shirts and reds by Michael parenti it dispels a lot of the BS you're saying. Here's a free copy

"Ignore history, here's a biased socialist who will tell you what to think"

Socialism is a cult. I feel ashamed that I fell for it when I was in my younger rebellious phase.

 

[WoAiGou]

Because I am against the government controlling major industries and limiting the individual right to own a private property.

Capitalism and the market have always been influenced by the people, you don't have to be a millionaire in order to manipulate stocks prices and send those corporations into

LMAO. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-china-climate-change-biggest-carbon-polluters/
Also, a country known for constantly hiding its carbon footprint. And it's actually working for them, since they are benefiting from other nations getting fucked by climate change and building around it. Like their mega dams in Africa, which will absolutely fuck Egypt, or the one in the Ganges river, this one having the potential to start a huge war due to its massive impact over India.
Here's another one of their projects which will not only move an obscene amount of oil, it also necessarily necessitates the arctic ocean to lose a lot of ice in order to be achievable
The green country of china!



Unbelievable that you unironically believe the gulags to be more humane than any US prison, they were akin to German concentration camps in many ways. "Up to 17 million people were sent to the Gulag, the notorious Soviet prison camp system, in the 1930s and 1940s, and at least 5 million of them were convicted on false testimony. The prison population in the sprawling labor camps peaked at 2 million people" https://apnews.com/article/b2adacb992004f4aaa4c739ec3f4629a
Those are conservative estimates btw.

Also, humane as fuck

Literally known as Stalin's cannibal island... Yeah.



"Ignore history, here's a biased socialist who will tell you what to think"

Socialism is a cult. I feel ashamed that I fell for it when I was in my younger rebellious phase.

The guy with a masters from Brown and PhD from Yale is a biased socialist but Apnews and some random YouTube are legit sources. Peaked at 2 million how many people are imprisoned in the US right now? I never said China was perfect I said they do more than any other country to combat climate change, they also have 1.4 billion people and are the worlds manufacturing hub. You should still read the book, shitty news articles and YouTube videos are impairing your critical thinking abilities.

 

[Fragile]

The guy with a masters from Brown and PhD from Yale is a biased socialist but Apnews and some random YouTube are legit sources. Peaked at 2 million how many people are imprisoned in the US right now? I never said China was perfect I said they do more than any other country to combat climate change, they also have 1.4 billion people and are the worlds manufacturing hub. You should still read the book, shitty news articles and YouTube videos are impairing your critical thinking abilities.

I'm sure that the gulag history museum is a non-valid source, sure. The holocaust museum is also lying by that logic?
And it's not as if a quick google search could show you hundreds of sources on the horrors of the gulags, china's mega projects and other stuff. I was only presenting them in the most digestible way.

But believe me, after coming out of the communist cult and their history revisionism, I've learned better than to trust popular socialists. They are extremely biased and can't take their rose tinted glasses for a single second, even when confronted with real criticism and historical context.

 

[blueclover_.]

I'm sure that the gulag history museum is a non-valid source, sure. The holocaust museum is also lying by that logic?
And it's not as if a quick google search could show you hundreds of sources on the horrors of the gulags, china's mega projects and other stuff. I was only presenting them in the most digestible way.

But believe me, after coming out of the communist cult and their history revisionism, I've learned better than to trust popular socialists. They are extremely biased and can't take their rose tinted glasses for a single second, even when confronted with real criticism and historical context.

Lmao this is so true. Every communist country on earth is struggling either financially or socially. While people in capitalist countries get to enjoy all the luxuries with or without anti-depressants.