I just think we don't know for sure, since many near death experiences depict hell, and many don't. I personally don't think we can know if hell exists or of heavcen exists for certain until we pass- and if there is nothing after this then we will never know. Though I personally think it is likely that our soul lives on after ourt body dies, based on some pretty convincing near death experiences.
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That is one possible explanation but not the only possible explanation. A bug argument against this is something that has happened in many cases that could not be explained in this way- peopel floating outside their bodies and seeing things in various areas, not in the same room, as they look down and having the things they saw confirmed by cameras or independent witnesses- many of these verified facts can not be explained by halluciations.
locked*n*loaded
Archangel
- Apr 15, 2022
- 8,995
Didn't Jesus in the mythical Bible, basically, commit CTB? Isn't what happened to him the equivalent of modern day suicide-by-cop, except instead of running with a gun in one's hand toward the police, he, basically, "ran" towards others of the time with his words. He must have known what would happen. Surely, his Father, who by all accounts "knows all", would have let him know what was going to happen. Seems like the same thing to me.
releasespieces
Poles are shifting, death is looming
- Jun 26, 2022
- 286
Freeing yourself from god and religions feels amazing, I highly recommend it. I'm actually shocked by the number of people that still believe in these things. I think they should be free to explore it to their hearts content, but it baffles me that they can't see beyond it.
I am also Christian universalist. I believe people reincarnate till they met criteria to be saved. In the end everybody gets saved. This idea makes Christianity compatible with Buddhism which is religion I also value a lot, mainly for insights into inner workings of consciousness.
Doom
Student
- Nov 21, 2022
- 108
the main problem with this starts with the fact that there is no free will, so the whole karmatic process by itself is unfair. Followed by the idea that there is no reason for the soul to exist, let alone evolve. Just ask yourself. Evolve for what? if the idea is to avoid suffering, then it would be best for the soul to be not created, as there would be no more constant need for evolution or reduction of suffering. If we were forced to exist, then bad karma would be unnecessary too, because since free will is an illusion, there is no need for tests. Why not simply give us the life we want, so no one needs to get hurt, instead of forcing us through pointless evolution followed by hundreds of years of suffering, just to arrive at a state of absolute pleasure that could have been guaranteed from the start?The point of not being able to remember previous lives, is so that the soul starts life fresh.
Can you imagine how bad it would hurt to know you were rich, strong, or healthy, or good-looking in a previous life, only to not be given these things in the present life? We are granted free will, however, if you do some really bad stuff with your free will, then you get bad karma. My personal karma has been so bad I must have been Hitler, or they have confused my records with somebody else!
Darkover
Archangel
- Jul 29, 2021
- 5,653
i'm using my free will right now to reply to this thread so that debunks your idea there is no free will
that not say we are not deterministic as clearly we all need eat sleep shit piss have sex ect
that not say we are not deterministic as clearly we all need eat sleep shit piss have sex ect
Doom
Student
- Nov 21, 2022
- 108
you're not. The very fact that you are here is due to a series of causes and effects that happened in your life in which you never had a choice in the first place. If you, for example, didn't have depression and were born into another family, country and environment, you wouldn't even be here commenting on it. Lack of free will does not lead to determinism, but to chaos. Everything in the world is based on a random sequence of events, the future does not exist, so it is illogical to say that we are destined for something.
The absence of free will is supported even by science. There are studies that conclude that your personality is shaped by your genes, including - Characteristics like self awareness, intellect and empathy are completely dictated by genes and environments, so claiming that all your choices depends only on "you" is unfounded when we all have a limited brain where all functionality is nothing more than chemical reactions.
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Darkover
Archangel
- Jul 29, 2021
- 5,653
i have choice i can choose to have a cup of tea or a cup of coffee or maybe ill just have some water there is choice there
you said there no free will but we are not destined for something, if there was no free will then destain a real thing
i could flip a coin and let that choose for me if to have a cup of tea or coffee
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Doom
Student
- Nov 21, 2022
- 108
You can't choose. If you chose the coffee cup, for example, it is because previous events led you to choose coffee (such as your preference for coffee, your lack of thirst and so on, because the chain is infinite). Even before you chose to drink coffee, your brain had already decided that you would choose coffee(supported by science evidance)
Darkover
Archangel
- Jul 29, 2021
- 5,653
Doom
Student
- Nov 21, 2022
- 108
it's impossible to have free will, even if you had complete control over your brain, your choices would still be dictated by past events and random events happening in the present. I simply cannot imagine a conscious being that has true free will. Even God would not have free will, because his mere need to create something already indicates a feeling that he couldnt avoid.
Darkover
Archangel
- Jul 29, 2021
- 5,653
so everything that is happening is following a predetermined path is that what you are saying since there is no free will and all
Doom
Student
- Nov 21, 2022
- 108
yes, but not only for that, but also because since your thoughts are nothing more than chemical reactions in your brain, they are not truly controlled by you, but by your genes as well.
Thoughts are constantly popping into our heads and we just can't stop them.
Try not to think of a snake with legs and arms.
I'm sure you've thought about it, even though I can't read your thoughts, simply because ideas and thoughts are something involuntary.
You'r probably thinking "but I can decide to follow these thoughts or not". And the answer is no. You cant truly decide it for so many reasons: It's not you who controls how logical the thought will be, because its based on your own perception of the world that you also have no control over; How willing you are to follow a thought depends on your emotional state, which again, you have no control over; It will also depend on your moral values, which were largely taught to you, while the other part depends on other factors such as your perception of the world and empathetic levels and so on.
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makethepainstop
Visionary
- Sep 16, 2022
- 2,029
Oh no, karma is not unfair. If your free will allows you to hurt others, then next life......others will be hurting you!
that is exactly the point, everyone is an atheist to all the religions they don't follow, I just happen to not believe one more.
TydalWave
Brutally Self-Aware
- Sep 20, 2022
- 436
That to me falls into the same fallacy that religion falls into. To believe in nothing is just as silly as to believe in something. Even if we apply it a very small probability, it still has a chance of being the truth. The odds that any religion has it right are incredibly low if they were all shots in the dark in the first place (i.e.e man-made and random).
But even if they are random, they have a chance of being true. And beyond that there is the fact that divine intervention could affect our ability to find meaning. Meaning that randomness can only represent the least likely of odds. Worst case our guesses are random, best cases teh divine intervention we notice has some real influence.
So to believe in nothing is in my mind the same fallacy of being in in something specific. I hate the idea of not believing in anything. It seems so incomplete and lacking motivation. But, it's true that any belief is based on some sort of fiction. Even the belief in nothing. So I've come to believe something could exist. Honestly, I think something should exist. Because to me, my existence is all I can validate; and thus, it's more likely/easy for me to believe existence continues beyond me, then to believe it doesn't. It is easier to beleive that something created me then to believe that I was created out of nothing, That to me is just honest logic, and perhaps it is logic influenced in the experience of man that has no meaning in the outside world, but its all I have to go off of.
Ultimately this decision comes down to the basis of Occam's Razor, in my opinion. Spirituality is such a broad topic. But as a whole it makes sense for something to exist beyond death because things exist before death and things exist during life. And Occam's Razor is a famous philosophical principle that states the best assumption is the one with the least assumptions. So to assume NOTHING exists or that Something specific exists is pretty unlikely. More than not, something exists, we just dont know what it is, or if we do we have no way of differentiating it from the false propanganda that disguises it.
annointed_towers
Cursed by God
- Dec 9, 2022
- 320
The reason I'm here is because I cursed God over a year ago and He cursed me back.
I was a Christian for 3 years. In a moment of rage I cursed the Trinity. Now I feel worms all over my body. Digging in my head. Writhing all over me. It's like a haunted feeling. I went to every doctor thinking I had a parasite. It took 6 months for me to realize this was spiritual, a haunting.
I'm totally lucid. There's nothing psychotic about me. This is really happening.
In the Bible cursing God is called the unforgivable sin which Jesus says "will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come." He also says "hell is the place where their worm never dies."
So, there very much is a hell. I'm living proof, but this all sounds crazy and nutjob so no one would ever believe me.
I was a Christian for 3 years. In a moment of rage I cursed the Trinity. Now I feel worms all over my body. Digging in my head. Writhing all over me. It's like a haunted feeling. I went to every doctor thinking I had a parasite. It took 6 months for me to realize this was spiritual, a haunting.
I'm totally lucid. There's nothing psychotic about me. This is really happening.
In the Bible cursing God is called the unforgivable sin which Jesus says "will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come." He also says "hell is the place where their worm never dies."
So, there very much is a hell. I'm living proof, but this all sounds crazy and nutjob so no one would ever believe me.
then i guess i'm doomed how is that fair if you don't even know this law?
Rainy_days
Experienced
- Dec 21, 2022
- 256
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