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Insomniac

Insomniac

𝔄 𝔲 𝔱 𝔦 𝔰 𝔪
May 21, 2021
1,357
Before we had this functioning body our consciousness simply did not exist.
we existed in our parents. as our parents.

so it's not "voodoo magic" belief, it's very observable science.

suffering is all there is. I know it sounds surreal, but I'm seriously done with wishful thinking. as a child, I couldn't conceive of my dreams never coming true. I couldn't conceive of my desires never becoming a reality. But here I am today. None of my desires came true and I exist in a perpetual state of suffering.

Some of you don't realize that your belief in non-existance is based on nothing other than wishful thinking.
 
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eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
1,169
Even if there is nothing more than pure void, i'd be happy with it.
In that void there is nothing, no pain, no anxious feelings of despair. Nothing. Eternal nothingness is way better than to live in a fucked up world.

The concept of an afterlife is so absurd. It is not rooted in any evidence or logic. I don't know how it got so popular. I guess the fear of dying is so powerful people willingly believe in fairytales.


we existed in our parents. as our parents.

so it's not "voodoo magic" belief, it's very observable science.

Our parents passed off their genetic code onto us through genetic recombination. We did not exist as an entity before our births.
 
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Bone

Bone

Sad Sack
Jul 29, 2021
168
Do acid or shrooms & you'll have a much more real experience than any dream as well
yep, psychosis is also very real, akin to shrooms/acid/other hallucinogens. is as real as can be, across multiple senses. I don't buy the NDE stuff, personally. just seems like feel-good stuff to get traffic/sell something
 
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eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
1,169
yep, psychosis is also very real, akin to shrooms/acid/other hallucinogens. is as real as can be, across multiple senses. I don't buy the NDE stuff, personally. just seems like feel-good stuff to get traffic/sell something


Yeah I don't really buy it either. It is hard to wrap your head around the concept of non-existence that is why people willingly choose to believe in nonsense. Because it puts their mind at ease. No more thinking, no more problem.
 
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motel rooms

motel rooms

Survivor of incest. Gay. Please don't PM me.
Apr 13, 2021
7,081
yep, psychosis is also very real, akin to shrooms/acid/other hallucinogens. is as real as can be, across multiple senses. I don't buy the NDE stuff, personally. just seems like feel-good stuff to get traffic/sell something
I think the clue is in the name: they're called NEAR-death experiences, not I-died-and-came-back-to-life-to-describe-death-for-you experiences
 
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eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
1,169
I think the clue is in the name: they're called NEAR-death experiences, not I-died-and-came-back-to-life-to-describe-death-for-you experiences

People have been declared dead and then resuscitated back to life moments later. A preview of death that most people never get to experience.

Although you could argue sleeping is like a preview of death as well. No awareness or perception.
 
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Insomniac

Insomniac

𝔄 𝔲 𝔱 𝔦 𝔰 𝔪
May 21, 2021
1,357
We did not exist as an entity before our births.
This is not something that you can assert with absolute certainty. If you're so sure you didn't exist "as an entity" before birth, then, how can you be so sure you didn't exist as an entity? The fact that you're seem so sure of it contradicts your statement. as if you were there to attest of your own inexistance as an entity.

anyway, at this point, it all just comes down to what we want to believe. I chose to believe that suffering and existence is all there is. And consciousness of something is also all there is.

That way, I cannot be disappointed, or hurt. Since I'm already expecting the worse.
 
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motel rooms

motel rooms

Survivor of incest. Gay. Please don't PM me.
Apr 13, 2021
7,081
People have been declared dead and then resuscitated back to life moments later. A preview of death that most people never get to experience.

A preview of my hairy butt. It takes more than moments for the brain to die.

Although you could argue sleeping is like a preview of death as well. No awareness or perception.

There's no awareness in sleep? How come I'm aware of my nightmares while I'm having them? I don't think I'm special in that regard
 
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eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
1,169
This is not something that you can assert with absolute certainty.

Of course it is. It is basically biology. We are product of genetic recombination. This can be proven every time an animal produces offspring. Our consciousness is the brain's perception of the world and of itself. There is zero shred of evidence that a pre or after life exists.


anyway, at this point, it all just comes down to what we want to believe.

Just because some people believe the earth is flat does not make it true. Reality does not change to suit our feelings.
 
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blueclover_.

blueclover_.

Better Never to Have Been: 2006, David Benatar
Oct 11, 2021
668
It hasn't been one single defining experience that I could dismiss as coincidence, but a great many which each could be random, but together perhaps not. They're all vague enough that they can't be proven real, as is always the case with questionable spiritual experiences.

Preface to say I'm seriously mentally ill, and have gone off the rails aplenty, and am not a reliable author. But I have enough 'other' stuff going on that scares me out of absolute nihilism.

Met a medium when young who outed me for being suicidal, was entirely aware of it having just met me, and I hid this from my family and had done nothing to give it away.

This lady spoke with me several times and read all my secrets and inner world with plenty of specific details. Read all my trauma and personality, how I hid in my room and felt extremely lonely and friendless, when she knew nothing about me.

I've daydreamed characters and a paracosm as a form of escapism and inserted myself into it as a sort of roleplay, and the large scale events I invented ended up mirroring into reality in ways I couldn't control. Specific dates I'd dreamed up for imaginary events came up and actual events occurred outwith my direct control. People I imagined and invented, whose portraits I drew and who came up in my dreams were born into my family. They've grown into faces I've drawn.

One nephew has red and one blue as favourite colour and I put correct background colours to their prelife portraits. One is always on the left, the other on the right in family photos. I drew them side by side in the correct positions. Correct hair colour, similar facial structure.

Added a blonde haired girl to the imaginary family, from a different line to her brothers. She was later adopted in reality. Predicted my brother's first son, including his first name. Predicted the name of his second son. Without making these suggestions for naming in reality. Drew my partner, complete with frowny face and beard, before I met him.

Have a weird thing with specific numbers. Two numbers I pay attention to when they turn up in reality. I once put on a lottery to see if I could influence fate as a joke and my two specific numbers came up, just those two. Odd and silly, but other times I've seen my numbers crop up when I should pay attention.

During manias I have waking dreams, have invaded a dream of a friend and answered specific questions with knowledge I shouldn't have when tested.

Outwith the dreams I've 'read' said friend, told her secrets about herself and her knowledge I shouldn't have known. And she's done the same to me. Like a psychic link. Guessed the specific gemstone she was thinking of as one example. Brought up names I got out of nowhere that ended up being people she knew that I didn't. 'Met' characters from her imaginary world when thinking up ones for my own, same appearances, personalities etc.

Stories I've written have paralleled my real life. I write fantasy and mythology, the symbolism therein refers across to specific events that happen in my life. If you research into it, mytholgical figures such as dragons for example, occur across many civilisations unconnected to each other, suggesting an underlying unconsciousness people draw ideas from.

Dates I've imagined will be important in my life have become so. I imagined significant scenarios such as falling out with family, milestones with my partner, and traumatic incidents to the age I would be when they happened. They happened. Also know the age I should die, curious as to what horror might drive me to it that awaits me, and whether I will avoid self-fulfilling prophecy.

During a mania I had a vivid experience that brought back a repressed memory of a deceased family member and what he said to me, his instruction to stay in school and not quit like I was thinking. I thought I failed him as I dropped out after a major depressive episode. When this experience happened, I'd just succeeded in completing college after getting back into education, and it was so shocking that the memory came back, I 'knew' he was reminding me of what he said and saying he was proud of me. I broke down in sobs and felt seen by spirit, watched over.

The manias are the most intense. I go into a whole different level of consciousness and suffer a constant thoughtstream of images and symbolism that when I look it up and research the meaning of, tell specific stories as if the universal unconsciousness is communicating information to me. The symbolism includes things I draw from dreams and hypnagogia and hypnopompia, and reflects upon reality in bizarre ways.

The past life memory stuff relates to what the medium dragged out of me. Specifically that I'm repeating events I never overcame once before and have to repeat because I didn't learn my 'lessons'. This relates to my fantasy stories and characters, my drawings, happening in real life after I've recorded them in writing or art.

Also relates to my death because I 'remember' I killed myself before, and am at that point again. And afraid that if I do it again, I'm repeating the failure of two successive mirroring lives and doomed to continue in the cycle of suffering until I overcome it.

Mad, absolutely. And I have to pretend all of this is nothing in order to present any face of normality to people around me. My sister and brother don't know I drew their kids before their births and haven't seen the drawings.
Are you serious? Why do you think only you can see these things?
 
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mayHeCurseUsAll

Member
Nov 23, 2019
41
Of course it is. It is basically biology. We are product of genetic recombination. This can be proven every time an animal produces offspring. Our consciousness is the brain's perception of the world and of itself. There is zero shred of evidence that a pre or after life exists.




Just because some people believe the earth is flat does not make it true. Reality does not change to suit our feelings.
There is no evidence that anyone has so far proposed a complete working definition of intelligence, despite attempts at AI, much less consciousness. The current belief neuroscientists have is that consciousness requires a brain. There is no evidence consciousness lives in the brain, although there is evidence that certain regions of the brain are important for whatever consciousness is. The penrose hameroff theory of consciousness proposes it could be non local and subject to quantum effects. He recently won the Nobel prize in physics and himself says although he thinks the afterlife is unlikely, he is open to the idea. Your absolutism is misplaced. We do not know. The most brilliant minds admit we do not know. Good day.
 
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PrisonBreak

Student
Oct 29, 2021
122
I hate having the idea of not being fulfilled after death. I want to have a feeling of being satisfied that I've accomplished death and have ended my suffering. A "well done" or a feeling of excitement and peace as I slip into the unknown. But we don't "feel" anything after losing consciousness, right? .

What does "Rest in Peace" mean anyway? Isn't that a feeling?

If I do happen to be an infinite being, then I would rather be transferred to another reality, far different to this one.
 
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eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
1,169
Are you serious? Why do you think only you can see these things?


Honestly this sounds a lot like the crazy bullshit my religious nutjob parents used to spew when I was growing up. It is always the same with these people. They claim that the universe and existence is too complicated for humans to grasp as if that is an argument supporting their made up bullshit.

Even the suicidal people on here are so afraid of death they willingly believe in ignorance.


current belief neuroscientists have is that consciousness requires a brain. There is no evidence consciousness lives in the brain.

But consciousness does reside in the brain. The entire field of general anesthesiology supports this. People who claim the existence of an afterlife with zero basis actually sickens me with their willful ignorance.
 
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noname223

Archangel
Aug 18, 2020
6,044
I have read philosophy about the impossibility of non-exsistence. Seems not logicial for me. I am glad I don't believe that. The notion of non-existence comforts me.
Imo when our brain dies our self dies too. I think the most current scientist think that we "are" our brains.
I had (stress) psychosis and it fits my experiences.
 
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Angst Filled Fuck Up

Angst Filled Fuck Up

Illuminated
Sep 9, 2018
3,007
Let people believe what they want, fuck. If someone likes this or that theory or they've had certain experiences that can't be explained let them roll with it.
 
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lonerclown666

Mage
Dec 1, 2020
540
I wish after life was real but we will never know it sadly i dont believe in forever nothingness either
 
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Journeytoletgo

Broken and hated 7-14 years long overdue
May 14, 2018
1,608
In my opinion. Why would you want there to be an after-life?Just think of it. All the horrible things you can possibly be re-born into (cat, dog, ape, bird, dolphin, wolf, lion etc) isn't once enough?? Or even human again? NO thanks. All the HORRIBLE possibilities at experiencing this again? I prefer nothing than this.
 
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Raminiki

Raminiki

Iustitia Mortuus
Jun 12, 2020
269
Are you serious? Why do you think only you can see these things?
Not serious, no. I'm far more inclined to believe Occam's Razor and the explanation is simply that I'm mentally ill. But that doesn't take away the strange coincidences, and they were certainly an interesting ride before nihilism beat some sense into me.

Guys on this post are right, people will imagine anything to cope with the brutal futility of an existence based in struggle and suffering. My paracosm was a coping mechanism, an escape. Just like art and music aren't 'real', spirit and religion aren't real either, but are intrinsic parts of human nature.

Tell me the art someone draws from their imagination, inspired by symbolism and metaphor, isn't 'real' because only that individual can 'see' that particular piece of art and bring it into reality. It's real in a subjective manner, not an objective one. That's how I understand what I've experienced. It's had real effects on my life even though it's all come from an overactive imagination and fucked up brain.
 
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PeacefulTonic

Enlightened
Aug 10, 2021
1,006
In my opinion. Why would you want there to be an after-life?Just think of it. All the horrible things you can possibly be re-born into (cat, dog, ape, bird, dolphin, wolf, lion etc) isn't once enough?? Or even human again? NO thanks. All the HORRIBLE possibilities at experiencing this again? I prefer nothing than this.
Agreed. Imagine being reincarnated into a fly or a cockroach. No thanks
 
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motel rooms

motel rooms

Survivor of incest. Gay. Please don't PM me.
Apr 13, 2021
7,081
Let people believe what they want, fuck.
Bitch Slap Slapping GIF by absurdnoise
slap slapping GIF
:)):)):))
 
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mayHeCurseUsAll

Member
Nov 23, 2019
41
Honestly this sounds a lot like the crazy bullshit my religious nutjob parents used to spew when I was growing up. It is always the same with these people. They claim that the universe and existence is too complicated for humans to grasp as if that is an argument supporting their made up bullshit.

Even the suicidal people on here are so afraid of death they willingly believe in ignorance.




But consciousness does reside in the brain. The entire field of general anesthesiology supports this. People who claim the existence of an afterlife with zero basis actually sickens me with their willful ignorance.
The brain being necessary for whatever consciousness is does not imply that consciousness resides in the brain much less anywhere else. To prove your claim you would first need a working definition of consciousness.
 
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mayHeCurseUsAll

Member
Nov 23, 2019
41
The brain being necessary for whatever consciousness is does not imply that consciousness resides in the brain much less anywhere else. To prove your claim you would first need a working definition of consciousness.
Super old thread now, but I resurfaced onto this site (And am happy to see it is still alive so that discussions around topics like this are not insta-banned) .

Maybe this will sound like a diatribe, and it is formulated as an argument, I will preface by saying I'm not an expert in these topics, but I'm also going to say noone is an expert on the topic of intelligence or consciousness, and anyone who claims to have conscious experience, or has possessed any form of thinking through what felt like a 'stuck-point' in their lives, to move past it, can have whatever opinions they want about both of these topics.

I really wanted to point out terminology like ''resides in the brain" when referring to consciousness is misleading. As @eternalmelancholy points out, according to Anesthesiologists , and I think very very likely according to the vast majority of Neuroscientists, the subjective experience of reality we (many as far as we know) claim and seem to possess called "consciousness" , or in less cryptic and probably also less pretentious speak this (Feynman inspired phrase) "seat of the pants feeling" that we are "driving" our "selves" along as life unfolds, can be "turned off" so to speak. I think this is where Anesthesiologists must have the most personal experience with, as their patients upon receiving treatment and after I suppose may as well have not existed for that period of time, from their perspective (the patient) and the Anesthesiologist.

Further to this point, there must be and I do not know the names of but there are as you say, regions of the brain which substances that Anesthesiologists use in their practice make significant interaction with, which maybe in layman terms (or at least in terms I would usually think in so that I can understand what claims they are making, I am nowhere near these fields) even "turn down" or " switch off", so in this sense, and therefore it seems and it would be to me too initially intuitive that such regions are where whatever conscious experience is "lives'' or ''resides''.

What I want to understand now , (if my argument (which is about to come , ignoring these parenthesis) is flawed, despite me being unable to believe it is), is why this implies consciousness , assuming so I don't sound like a pedant (although I think the definition point is important) has already been defined adequately, as adequately as the first whole number 1 is defined , exists as an object, or is a collection of phenomenon that certain regions of the brain produces.

The reason I don't see these as the immediate conclusions is because of the whole 'brain could be a receiever' thing that you see now and again on the internet, I think espoused by John Lilly and maybe Terrence Mckenna at some points too. But this is not the entire reason at all.

What I understand of my own brain, is that despite not having an inkling of understanding of how its doing what its doing, at some basic level it processes sensory input/data/information, organizes it to some extent (potentially discarding or deprioritizing extraneous input, extraneous for whatever you need to survive or the task you have committed to currently at hand or whatever) , and then respond to it. I feel personally, this is how I have feelings, they often do feel spontaneous, but on some level it feels like I know that they are still responses to stimuli, and the brain is responsible for producing feelings in response to observed or unobserved stimuli, therefore in as much as, if "consciousness" at its bare bones is something akin (but surely much greater than) a single feeling, why can the brain not produce whatever it is, in response to observed or unobserved stimuli? This is now drawing from really old memories but I thought that's what were evolved to do, respond to stimuli, be it physical pain or mental, observed or unobserved.

In that case, if this is what happens, why do we not say things like "sadness" lives in the brain. Or "happiness" lives in the brain. At least I've not heard this said before to my current memory, surely we seem to agree that our brains are capable of producing such feelings, but it would seem that these productions are in response to stimuli promoting these states. What if whatever "consciousness" is, if we want to call it an object, is the source of or is the main source of the stimuli our brain responds to (on average) when/ to produce what we refer to as a "conscious experience".

But if that is the case, why are we not thinking about whether "happiness" , or "sadness" exist as objects at all. Or what the definitions of these things are, and why are we not wondering if there is a main/central source of stimuli that on average when received by a brain produces a state of "happiness" or "sadness", and if so why is it not a possibility that these sources should be if we want to call feeling ""x" an object, the definition of "x"", and "feeling x" the sequence of events occurring on average by animals capable of receiving stimuli from the source stimuli "x" (through the brain I suppose as far as we know, at least for humans) as a response to the stimulus obtained through stimuli "x".

So in that case what about simpler questions (seemingly simpler), what is the nature of any emotion/feeling at all, before consciousness, first? What about even philosophizing more about these things first over consciousness? Doesn't that even fit Occam's razor?

Now this is granting we have a working definition of consciousness, I don't think experts have one, here I am lumping in philosophers and mathematicians ,physicists into the equation to, anyone who has wrestled with the notions of things like ''truth" or "existence" or "provability" to me seem to be entitled to think and perhaps have a fresh perspective to bring to the table about this topic. Penrose points this out but I think it also occurs to perhaps many students of mathematics when they learn about things like computability and Gödel's incompleteness theorems. It seems sort of natural to question whether we really know anything in such an absolute sense, because these results question and in some sense say that there is no such thing as ''absolute truth''' even in the abstract formal sense, so how can there be anything close to this in the approximate truth sense in which empiricists deal with?

Anyway I want to reiterate the pretentious speak isn't something I can avoid when I try and engage in overly pedantic and likely very likely fallible attempts at making logical counterarguments on the internet, and isn't intended to put anyone here in low spirits, put anyone down, or make me feel better about myself , although admittedly typing this stuff out is fun for me on an intellectual level and is a nice distraction to woes that I am confident many people here experience more than me 100 fold in life.

Good day.
 
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