Venting I am a piece of shit for being an incel

[monkeyfff]

There I said it! No hiding, no playing safe and being fake and deceiving you guys. I am an incel. I am a piece of shit for it and I deserve the worst things to happen to me.

This won't be about this diseased identity, but rather about why it makes me in particular a piece of shit.

This is what I always tell myself: "I am an ugly, unattractive, incompetent, unintelligent, unconfident and unmasculine black incel". Everything stems from this. It's how I can assert that I am subhuman. It's how I know I am inferior. That's how I know I am a bad person. It's where the hatred, frustration, envy, evilness, hypocrisy, entitlement and most importantly the fragility comes from.

I deserve this. It honestly doesn't even matter to me anymore if it is because of my genetics (blackpill), personality (bluepill) or lack of a grind mindset (redpill). I JUST DON'T CARE ANYMORE!

I deserve to die, I need to die, I want to die. It would be better for everyone including me. Gone is this hateful monkey! Gone is this undesirable half-human gremlin-looking ass, dumb-looking ass, pathetic-looking ass inferior organism!

Look, I am sorry for what I am. I never wanted to be this. I feel so bad being this. I cry and I cry because I know. I know what you think of me. It is extra tough when you are also black. So not only am I an incel but I am also of the most impoverished, unintelligent violent race on earth. It's utterly pathetic.

It's weird, I am so passive, so invisible, so weak and yet I blame, I point fingers, I put responsibility on anyone but myself except of course when it comes to my immutable traits. "Oh you aren't tall enough... Your fault!", "Oh you don't have hunter eyes... Your fault!", "oh you don't have a good jawline... Your fault!", "Oh you are black... You guessed it, your fucking fault!".

I want to end on this notion: I am really sorry for what I am. If I had superpowers I would eradicate inceldom from everyone's mind who's infected by it. I really would. I don't want to be this, but I am this. Perhaps this ties back to my world view of predestination. "Everything has already been decided from the start of the beginning. This is just one of the many chain reactions of that first moment. We are just on ride so either enjoy it or don't, that was already determined anyways."

I would gladly be exterminated.

 

[alwayspissedoff]

as long as you don't hate women and do bad things to them or any person, you're not inherently bad for considering yourself an involuntary celibate (I mean the original definition).
I'm only reading self hatred, which I also deal with quite a lot.
do know that if you are a good person to people, you also deserve people to be good to you, no matter what physical traits you may have.

and if you are indeed a bad incel, I see that you hate being it. maybe you should reconsider and start working towards being a better person, many more people would like you that way.

 

[monkeyfff]

as long as you don't hate women and do bad things to them or any person, you're not inherently bad for considering yourself an involuntary celibate (I mean the original definition).

I don't know, it's weird. I do have contempt and resentment towards women in an almost abstract sense. Individually and in real life I don't real act, think or see women through hate but rather superiority. It's a weird perspective because you start believing you are worth less to them, you are inferior to them and so your hatred feels justified and it feels like punching up and not down and that's the trap.

I am also a bit of a catastropher, self-victimizer, "woe is me" person. I see myself as filth and beneath everyone including women and yet when I am home alone in my dark bedroom the hate starts. It's like fighting ghosts. You don't even see or experience them but think you do and react accordingly. Imaginary battles basically.

I also don't even know if I am a true incel in any way, shape or form. I am so passive. I do literally nothing, I don't try, I don't want to try yet I yearn for something which realistically needs anything to happen. That's why I know I am a piece of shit. I am wrong about it yet I think I deserve it and I am stuck in a perpetual self-sabotaging spiral.

and if you are indeed a bad incel, I see that you hate being it. maybe you should reconsider and start working towards being a better person, many more people would like you that way.

I have things going on to try to make change occur and all the hatred is always directed towards myself. I want to personally hurt no one ever, no men or women.

Thank you for your time, I appreciate it.

 

[heal]

I have a lot of thoughts I'd like to share, but they'll have to wait until have more time to write them out. In the meantime, I want you to know you are heard, and there is more understanding in the world than you may know.

I do not think any of the things you expressed make you inherently bad or undeserving of care. The only things I felt reading your post were sympathy, empathy, and pity that your experiences informed your self-worth and perspective so harshly.

Until I have the opportunity to reply more properly, I hope this initial response might offer you some of the understanding and care I wish to impart.

 

[Passenger4224]

So much pain in a few paragraphs. I'm very sorry you are suffering so much and are stuck as someone you aren't happy with. It's the most torturous feeling.

 

[monkeyfff]

I have a lot of thoughts I'd like to share, but they'll have to wait until have more time to write them out. In the meantime, I want you to know you are heard, and there is more understanding in the world than you may know.

I do not think any of the things you expressed make you inherently bad or undeserving of care. The only things I felt reading your post were sympathy, empathy, and pity that your experiences informed your self-worth and perspective so harshly.

Until I have the opportunity to reply more properly, I hope this initial response might offer you some of the understanding and care I wish to impart.

So much pain in a few paragraphs. I'm very sorry you are suffering so much and are stuck as someone you aren't happy with. It's the most torturous feeling.

All I can say to you guys is thank you for your understanding and time. It's more than I expected, so know that I hold it dearly.

 

[Dandelion's]

There I said it! No hiding, no playing safe and being fake and deceiving you guys. I am an incel. I am a piece of shit for it and I deserve the worst things to happen to me.

This won't be about this diseased identity, but rather about why it makes me in particular a piece of shit.

This is what I always tell myself: "I am an ugly, unattractive, incompetent, unintelligent, unconfident and unmasculine black incel". Everything stems from this. It's how I can assert that I am subhuman. It's how I know I am inferior. That's how I know I am a bad person. It's where the hatred, frustration, envy, evilness, hypocrisy, entitlement and most importantly the fragility comes from.

I deserve this. It honestly doesn't even matter to me anymore if it is because of my genetics (blackpill), personality (bluepill) or lack of a grind mindset (redpill). I JUST DON'T CARE ANYMORE!

I deserve to die, I need to die, I want to die. It would be better for everyone including me. Gone is this hateful monkey! Gone is this undesirable half-human gremlin-looking ass, dumb-looking ass, pathetic-looking ass inferior organism!

Look, I am sorry for what I am. I never wanted to be this. I feel so bad being this. I cry and I cry because I know. I know what you think of me. It is extra tough when you are also black. So not only am I an incel but I am also of the most impoverished, unintelligent violent race on earth. It's utterly pathetic.

It's weird, I am so passive, so invisible, so weak and yet I blame, I point fingers, I put responsibility on anyone but myself except of course when it comes to my immutable traits. "Oh you aren't tall enough... Your fault!", "Oh you don't have hunter eyes... Your fault!", "oh you don't have a good jawline... Your fault!", "Oh you are black... You guessed it, your fucking fault!".

I want to end on this notion: I am really sorry for what I am. If I had superpowers I would eradicate inceldom from everyone's mind who's infected by it. I really would. I don't want to be this, but I am this. Perhaps this ties back to my world view of predestination. "Everything has already been decided from the start of the beginning. This is just one of the many chain reactions of that first moment. We are just on ride so either enjoy it or don't, that was already determined anyways."

I would gladly be exterminated.

There is nothing inherently morally evil about looking bad or not getting a partner.
Blaming it on women, being an asshole is.

You seem totally fine to me.

 

[lastappleonearth]

Idk, u seem to be pretty self aware tho and as long as u don't hate women or blame them for sth for some reason, then i don't think u are really an incel. Like just because someone's a for example a virgin and also hates themselves for various reasons doesn't mean that this person is an incel

 

[heal]

It must be crushing to encounter such overwhelming animosity towards a label so closely encompassing of your experiences, especially in consideration of predetermined factors beyond your control you never would have asked for. I have read a lot of the rhetoric surrounding incels, and I know it must feel dehumanizing and further ostrasizing when you are already struggling to find meaningful connections. The label comes with so much baggage due to the harm members of its community have caused externalizing their pain, however I feel you are unduly carrying that weight, because the only person you seem to be causing harm to is yourself. I think you should be kinder to yourself, but I understand it is difficult to find a foundation to start from when the things that constitute your self invite so much rejection and pain. I am sure you have seen and heard many blanket statements blaming incels entirely for their own problems, however I think it is incredibly harmful and reductive to imply people in your position are simply struggling with body dysmorphia and personality issues against the realities of discrimination. Social exclusion based on lookism and racism is real, and to deny that is a luxury of privilege. I know exactly what those things are like, and want to validate your experiences instead of denying or pushing them aside.

I'd like to offer my perspective. It is entirely subjective and admittedly quite negative, but there is some resolve to be found in it:

I struggled with many of the same issues you have described throughout so much of my life; I was regularly told I was unattractive, rejected for being unmasculine, mocked for many of my immutable/racial traits, and pushed away for exhibiting various personality and developmental disorders. I ended up developing rejection sensitivity dysphoria, and studies show this disorder is primarily caused by childhood rejection and neglect. If you lack affirmation or a foundation to feel confident in yourself, it is common to seek these things from others, but this becomes destructive when you are consistently met with rejection. The reaction becomes pathological, and you learn to hate the things that make you unique when they become vectors for abuse. I don't think affirmation can only truly come from within—it is certainly possible, but most people reasonably need a sense of belonging and care to develop the confidence to ever endure in its absence.

I won't claim to fully understand your experiences, because the treatment I receive improved during my mid-twenties after people started finding me attractive. The attention was initially fun, but shallow and unfulfilling, and I continued to face rejection after inviting people more deeply into my life to discover what I am truly like. These experiences served to validate my preconceptions about lookism, and I resigned myself to the belief that the average person is often undiscerning, vain, and unnecessarily cruel. People to whom the lowest common denominator ideas appeal, who are disregarding and unable to understand perspectives they cannot relate to or that affect them. I have had many people argue this is a skewed and overly pessimistic view of society, and that the average person is actually well intentioned and kind—but I feel that most people are unable to truly consider their own cruelty when it is directed toward targets they have already dehumanized (i.e.: the impoverished/criminal, disabled, disfigured, neurodivergent, incels, etc). I have only learned to forgive and accept these things of others because I was once this way too due to conditioning and naïvete. I have been marginalized for a variety of different reasons throughout my life, and even then it took years to unpack the damage and begin unlearning the things I was perpetuating. Some never will, and there are evidently people that rationalize the damage they cause as just or necessary.

The conclusion I came to is that I must carefully select for people I believe to be worthwhile, because the type of person that would disqualify me over superficial reasons is not worth my consideration. I find that kind of person disgusting, and unfortunately, this describes most people. That outlook may sound cyclically self-ostracizing, but it caused me to stop looking for affirmation from broader society, and turn to others that might understand my pain. It was not easy, and it took a lot of searching and chance encounters, but I was able to find what I was looking for. To feel truly understood is infinitely more meaningful than any connection predicated by superficial appearances. I don't want to diminish your experiences however, because I also understand those things can be conducive to starting a relationship and being treated fairly at all.

I felt compelled to respond to your post and express the compassion I feel, because I was infinitely worse off until I finally received that myself. I am unsure if anything I could say might offer you the hope I wish to impart, that there are absolutely people deserving of your care, but I at least want to show there is more understanding in the world than you may know. I have had multiple encounters with incels reaching out over social media and dating apps to vent frustrations they believed I would not understand, but I often feel they are some of the only people that might understand the things I have gone through. I do not feel I was undeserving of the affection and care I lacked for so much of my life, and I sincerely do not believe you are unworthy of those things for any of the same or other reasons you have described as well. You seem to have a lot of self-awareness about why you feel the ways you do and how those feelings can be harmfully expressed, and that is a worthwhile quality many people lack. The pain and rejection I have felt is not something I would ever wish upon anyone else or seek to perpetuate by lashing back out. From reading your posts, I think you have experienced enough suffering to understand that as well, and have the capacity to be kind in an unkind world.

I wish there was more I could offer than words to ease your pain, but know that I am rooting for your success and healing.

 

[monkeyfff]

It must be crushing to encounter such overwhelming animosity towards a label so closely encompassing of your experiences, especially in consideration of predetermined factors beyond your control you never would have asked for. I have read a lot of the rhetoric surrounding incels, and I know it must feel dehumanizing and further ostrasizing when you are already struggling to find meaningful connections. The label comes with so much baggage due to the harm members of its community have caused externalizing their pain, however I feel you are unduly carrying that weight, because the only person you seem to be causing harm to is yourself. I think you should be kinder to yourself, but I understand it is difficult to find a foundation to start from when the things that constitute your self invite so much rejection and pain. I am sure you have seen and heard many blanket statements blaming incels entirely for their own problems, however I think it is incredibly harmful and reductive to imply people in your position are simply struggling with body dysmorphia and personality issues against the realities of discrimination. Social exclusion based on lookism and racism is real, and to deny that is a luxury of privilege. I know exactly what those things are like, and want to validate your experiences instead of denying or pushing them aside.

I'd like to offer my perspective. It is entirely subjective and admittedly quite negative, but there is some resolve to be found in it:

I struggled with many of the same issues you have described throughout so much of my life; I was regularly told I was unattractive, rejected for being unmasculine, mocked for many of my immutable/racial traits, and pushed away for exhibiting various personality and developmental disorders. I ended up developing rejection sensitivity dysphoria, and studies show this disorder is primarily caused by childhood rejection and neglect. If you lack affirmation or a foundation to feel confident in yourself, it is common to seek these things from others, but this becomes destructive when you are consistently met with rejection. The reaction becomes pathological, and you learn to hate the things that make you unique when they become vectors for abuse. I don't think affirmation can only truly come from within—it is certainly possible, but most people reasonably need a sense of belonging and care to develop the confidence to ever endure in its absence.

I won't claim to fully understand your experiences, because the treatment I receive improved during my mid-twenties after people started finding me attractive. The attention was initially fun, but shallow and unfulfilling, and I continued to face rejection after inviting people more deeply into my life to discover what I am truly like. These experiences served to validate my preconceptions about lookism, and I resigned myself to the belief that the average person is often undiscerning, vain, and unnecessarily cruel. People to whom the lowest common denominator ideas appeal, who are disregarding and unable to understand perspectives they cannot relate to or that affect them. I have had many people argue this is a skewed and overly pessimistic view of society, and that the average person is actually well intentioned and kind—but I feel that most people are unable to truly consider their own cruelty when it is directed toward targets they have already dehumanized (i.e.: the impoverished/criminal, disabled, disfigured, neurodivergent, incels, etc). I have only learned to forgive and accept these things of others because I was once this way too due to conditioning and naïvete. I have been marginalized for a variety of different reasons throughout my life, and even then it took years to unpack the damage and begin unlearning the things I was perpetuating. Some never will, and there are evidently people that rationalize the damage they cause as just or necessary.

The conclusion I came to is that I must carefully select for people I believe to be worthwhile, because the type of person that would disqualify me over superficial reasons is not worth my consideration. I find that kind of person disgusting, and unfortunately, this describes most people. That outlook may sound cyclically self-ostracizing, but it caused me to stop looking for affirmation from broader society, and turn to others that might understand my pain. It was not easy, and it took a lot of searching and chance encounters, but I was able to find what I was looking for. To feel truly understood is infinitely more meaningful than any connection predicated by superficial appearances. I don't want to diminish your experiences however, because I also understand those things can be conducive to starting a relationship and being treated fairly at all.

I felt compelled to respond to your post and express the compassion I feel, because I was infinitely worse off until I finally received that myself. I am unsure if anything I could say might offer you the hope I wish to impart, that there are absolutely people deserving of your care, but I at least want to show there is more understanding in the world than you may know. I have had multiple encounters with incels reaching out over social media and dating apps to vent frustrations they believed I would not understand, but I often feel they are some of the only people that might understand the things I have gone through. I do not feel I was undeserving of the affection and care I lacked for so much of my life, and I sincerely do not believe you are unworthy of those things for any of the same or other reasons you have described as well. You seem to have a lot of self-awareness about why you feel the ways you do and how those feelings can be harmfully expressed, and that is a worthwhile quality many people lack. The pain and rejection I have felt is not something I would ever wish upon anyone else or seek to perpetuate by lashing back out. From reading your posts, I think you have experienced enough suffering to understand that as well, and have the capacity to be kind in an unkind world.

I wish there was more I could offer than words to ease your pain, but know that I am rooting for your success and healing.

You make me want to cry, man. Thank you so much. I don't even know what else to say, I just don't know. Thank you for writing this. Thank you for trying to understand me. Thank you for putting effort for someone like me. This is all I can say right now.

 

[heal]

You make me want to cry, man. Thank you so much. I don't even know what else to say, I just don't know. Thank you for writing this. Thank you for trying to understand me. Thank you for putting effort for someone like me. This is all I can say right now.

I am so immensely grateful my words were able to reach and mean something to you. I teared up reading your response this morning, and now again formulating this reply. I want you to know it offered some meaning to me in return, more than I have words to describe.

 

[Mgelanie]

There I said it! No hiding, no playing safe and being fake and deceiving you guys. I am an incel. I am a piece of shit for it and I deserve the worst things to happen to me.

This won't be about this diseased identity, but rather about why it makes me in particular a piece of shit.

This is what I always tell myself: "I am an ugly, unattractive, incompetent, unintelligent, unconfident and unmasculine black incel". Everything stems from this. It's how I can assert that I am subhuman. It's how I know I am inferior. That's how I know I am a bad person. It's where the hatred, frustration, envy, evilness, hypocrisy, entitlement and most importantly the fragility comes from.

I deserve this. It honestly doesn't even matter to me anymore if it is because of my genetics (blackpill), personality (bluepill) or lack of a grind mindset (redpill). I JUST DON'T CARE ANYMORE!

I deserve to die, I need to die, I want to die. It would be better for everyone including me. Gone is this hateful monkey! Gone is this undesirable half-human gremlin-looking ass, dumb-looking ass, pathetic-looking ass inferior organism!

Look, I am sorry for what I am. I never wanted to be this. I feel so bad being this. I cry and I cry because I know. I know what you think of me. It is extra tough when you are also black. So not only am I an incel but I am also of the most impoverished, unintelligent violent race on earth. It's utterly pathetic.

It's weird, I am so passive, so invisible, so weak and yet I blame, I point fingers, I put responsibility on anyone but myself except of course when it comes to my immutable traits. "Oh you aren't tall enough... Your fault!", "Oh you don't have hunter eyes... Your fault!", "oh you don't have a good jawline... Your fault!", "Oh you are black... You guessed it, your fucking fault!".

I want to end on this notion: I am really sorry for what I am. If I had superpowers I would eradicate inceldom from everyone's mind who's infected by it. I really would. I don't want to be this, but I am this. Perhaps this ties back to my world view of predestination. "Everything has already been decided from the start of the beginning. This is just one of the many chain reactions of that first moment. We are just on ride so either enjoy it or don't, that was already determined anyways."

I would gladly be exterminated.

It's sad because it's human nature to value looks more than anything You can't even be mad at them so you just blame yourself for losing the genetics lottery, I'm so sorry you are going through this this world is horrible

 

[dearn]

There I said it! No hiding, no playing safe and being fake and deceiving you guys. I am an incel. I am a piece of shit for it and I deserve the worst things to happen to me.

This won't be about this diseased identity, but rather about why it makes me in particular a piece of shit.

This is what I always tell myself: "I am an ugly, unattractive, incompetent, unintelligent, unconfident and unmasculine black incel". Everything stems from this. It's how I can assert that I am subhuman. It's how I know I am inferior. That's how I know I am a bad person. It's where the hatred, frustration, envy, evilness, hypocrisy, entitlement and most importantly the fragility comes from.

I deserve this. It honestly doesn't even matter to me anymore if it is because of my genetics (blackpill), personality (bluepill) or lack of a grind mindset (redpill). I JUST DON'T CARE ANYMORE!

I deserve to die, I need to die, I want to die. It would be better for everyone including me. Gone is this hateful monkey! Gone is this undesirable half-human gremlin-looking ass, dumb-looking ass, pathetic-looking ass inferior organism!

Look, I am sorry for what I am. I never wanted to be this. I feel so bad being this. I cry and I cry because I know. I know what you think of me. It is extra tough when you are also black. So not only am I an incel but I am also of the most impoverished, unintelligent violent race on earth. It's utterly pathetic.

It's weird, I am so passive, so invisible, so weak and yet I blame, I point fingers, I put responsibility on anyone but myself except of course when it comes to my immutable traits. "Oh you aren't tall enough... Your fault!", "Oh you don't have hunter eyes... Your fault!", "oh you don't have a good jawline... Your fault!", "Oh you are black... You guessed it, your fucking fault!".

I want to end on this notion: I am really sorry for what I am. If I had superpowers I would eradicate inceldom from everyone's mind who's infected by it. I really would. I don't want to be this, but I am this. Perhaps this ties back to my world view of predestination. "Everything has already been decided from the start of the beginning. This is just one of the many chain reactions of that first moment. We are just on ride so either enjoy it or don't, that was already determined anyways."

I would gladly be exterminated.

There is nothing wrong being single man. Don't over hate yourself for that as long u don't hate women.

 

[Cauliflour]

To me it seems like you have a lot of internalised hatred for yourself, the racism stands out to me. It makes me curious as to what happened in your life that you've got so much self hatred that you're using racist language to insult yourself. Your use of "alpha male" terminology with the coloured pills indicates that you spend a lot of time in that sphere of the internet, which may have increased your self hatred due to the competitive nature of that sphere with everyone comparing each other to everything and trying to make you feel less than so you will buy their course or protein powder. The fact you have this level of self awareness is already a good step (certainly doesn't make you "incompetent and unintelligent" like how you've described it) as knowing what the issue is is the first part of solving it. I'd recommend using the internet less and try to focus more on things you are good at. Work on yourself first and then worry about love.

 

[SuicidalCheese]

I don't know, it's weird. I do have contempt and resentment towards women in an almost abstract sense. Individually and in real life I don't real act, think or see women through hate but rather superiority. It's a weird perspective because you start believing you are worth less to them, you are inferior to them and so your hatred feels justified and it feels like punching up and not down and that's the trap.

I am also a bit of a catastropher, self-victimizer, "woe is me" person. I see myself as filth and beneath everyone including women and yet when I am home alone in my dark bedroom the hate starts. It's like fighting ghosts. You don't even see or experience them but think you do and react accordingly. Imaginary battles basically.

I also don't even know if I am a true incel in any way, shape or form. I am so passive. I do literally nothing, I don't try, I don't want to try yet I yearn for something which realistically needs anything to happen. That's why I know I am a piece of shit. I am wrong about it yet I think I deserve it and I am stuck in a perpetual self-sabotaging spiral.


I have things going on to try to make change occur and all the hatred is always directed towards myself. I want to personally hurt no one ever, no men or women.

Thank you for your time, I appreciate it.

Honestly man, you're trying, and you know that feeling superior to someone based on catch-all criteria ain't good. That make you better than a lot of people, not just incels.

 

[infinitanocte]

I don't know much about that sphere specifically, but my impression is that the trap of being an incel is the low self-esteem. It's like offloading the self-hatred onto women as a vague target to blame for feeling unworthy or not loved.

But the truth is, you are worthy and you can be loved. There is no such thing as being inherently unworthy, bad or unlovable. I think the sooner that someone can realize the lie that those spheres feed you, the faster you can recover and escape. They tell you that if you just do xyz, buy their course or protein powder and learn some tactics, you, too, can be worthy and "enough."
But that's not true; love isn't something you earn, and your worth is not a value that fluctuates. However, building your self-esteem and self-love can be difficult. That's why I encourage you to surround yourself with loving and caring voices that promote loving yourself, taking care of yourself, rather than looking at the manosphere type videos or essays that keep you stuck in a pit of self-hatred that you can never climb out of.

Leaving this pit also requires an overall perspective shift. Women are not dangling something out of your reach because they think you're unattractive or mocking you. Women are just people like you who may or may not want to do some things, with or without other people.
Think of it more simply. Some people don't like gaming. Some people don't like gaming with other people. Some people only game with specific people. Or replace gaming with another activity. That's not because they look down on other people, but because they have preferences. I acknowledge that attraction and preferences are definitely not a neutral thing in this world, but my point stands that people are people, and there will be the right people for you if you love and esteem yourself first. And man, if they don't appreciate you, don't let them in your life, because they don't deserve you.

I want to end by recommending an interesting book called The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by bell hooks. It's written sincerely and compassionately and acknowledges the difficulties of being a man in a patriarchal society and today's world, and it encourages men to get in touch with themselves, to stop drowning out their emotions and selves. In the book, she mentions that we all want to love men, whether it be fathers, brothers, sons, etc. and I believe you can find a free pdf of this book online somewhere. I hope that you can be encouraged to love and cherish yourself, and to be curious about the you that you don't know or understand yet, and all the amazing person you are behind the self-hatred. You are loved and lovable.
And, here's a song I like by Josh Groban :) You are Loved

 

[makebelieve]

Im too ugly to be loved so i feel u.

 

[caotic_realm]

If it's any consolation, I'm an incel too. My problem is that—since my chances of being with a woman (without paying) are practically zero—I tend to console myself with porn and fap. I see a beautiful woman in a porn video or an image, and I find comfort in feeling like I'm connecting with her through my own pleasure. I know it's pathetic, but hey, I just wanted to get it off my chest here.

 

[monkeyfff]

Idk, u seem to be pretty self aware tho and as long as u don't hate women or blame them for sth for some reason, then i don't think u are really an incel. Like just because someone's a for example a virgin and also hates themselves for various reasons doesn't mean that this person is an incel

I needed time to process everything everyone wrote in this thread so sorry for taking so long to react to this but I think we are not seeing eye to eye on the definition of incel. I am not one of those that are active on .is I am mainly talking about the pure unadulterated version of the word: Involuntarily celibate.

It's sad because it's human nature to value looks more than anything You can't even be mad at them so you just blame yourself for losing the genetics lottery, I'm so sorry you are going through this this world is horrible

I think this is what a lot of people conflate with blaming. There is no blame, everything is based on explanations, reasoning and understanding of people and their behaviours. It's the acceptance of who they are, it's understanding that they didn't choose this and therefore blame is obsolete. But likewise in the same manner that I apply this to even scum and villainy I should logically apply this way of thinking also to me but I don't. I do blame myself almost automatically. I have this deep-seated hatred for myself for allowing this to occur to me. like I had a choice or a say in any of this. It's deeply frustrating being aware that you are illogical yet unable to shake that self-hatred and blame off yourself. I feel like you understand that.

There is nothing wrong being single man. Don't over hate yourself for that as long u don't hate women.

What I don't get from this message is what you mean at the end. Is it only warrented, justified, deserved and okay to hate yourself if you do hate women? I am curious.

To me it seems like you have a lot of internalised hatred for yourself, the racism stands out to me. It makes me curious as to what happened in your life that you've got so much self hatred that you're using racist language to insult yourself. Your use of "alpha male" terminology with the coloured pills indicates that you spend a lot of time in that sphere of the internet, which may have increased your self hatred due to the competitive nature of that sphere with everyone comparing each other to everything and trying to make you feel less than so you will buy their course or protein powder. The fact you have this level of self awareness is already a good step (certainly doesn't make you "incompetent and unintelligent" like how you've described it) as knowing what the issue is is the first part of solving it. I'd recommend using the internet less and try to focus more on things you are good at. Work on yourself first and then worry about love.

Actually it's quite funny how not a lot has happened in my life personally when it comes to racism. Maybe a couple of squabbles or small hiccups as was born in and still live in Europe as a black male. I just observe the world through different media and see what I see. I don't know, I just feel shame for being associated with certain groups of people, of being judged or perceived in a certain way just because I share something with another group of people. I never feel at home in the place that should be my homeland. I guess I am so disconnected and disassociated that this racist way of talking and seeing myself and others like me doesn't affect me.

I actually don't spent that much time on the "alpha male" side of the Internet. Are you talking about red pill and Andrew Tate type things? Because I despise that. I do however subscribe to the Black Pill and utter nihilism with a pinch of misanthropy in general. And even then I absorb the information there but don't blindly accept it, I have many moments where I am like "I don't agree with that" or "But I see it differently". I don't see eye to eye with some topics fortunately as I don't want any dogma.

About the working on yourself part. I tried some things, I starved myself to become as lean as possible, I microfractured my shins and stretched the bones to become as tall as possible, I tried to believe in a divine being (God) to become mentally more stable, I put myself out there to become more social, I had a set of hobbies that I did and liked like badminton, basketball and gaming to become self-reliant when it comes to happiness but as you can see all to no avail. I did these things in the span of 3 years. I chuckled once to myself and I realised that the more things change the more they stay the same.

Honestly man, you're trying, and you know that feeling superior to someone based on catch-all criteria ain't good. That make you better than a lot of people, not just incels.

Oh you misunderstood, I don't think I am superior at all on the contrary I think I am inferior to all including women. I talked about how easy it is to resent people when you feel like you are punching up and not down or across. It's a trap I have to be cautious of.

I don't know much about that sphere specifically, but my impression is that the trap of being an incel is the low self-esteem. It's like offloading the self-hatred onto women as a vague target to blame for feeling unworthy or not loved.

But the truth is, you are worthy and you can be loved. There is no such thing as being inherently unworthy, bad or unlovable. I think the sooner that someone can realize the lie that those spheres feed you, the faster you can recover and escape. They tell you that if you just do xyz, buy their course or protein powder and learn some tactics, you, too, can be worthy and "enough."
But that's not true; love isn't something you earn, and your worth is not a value that fluctuates. However, building your self-esteem and self-love can be difficult. That's why I encourage you to surround yourself with loving and caring voices that promote loving yourself, taking care of yourself, rather than looking at the manosphere type videos or essays that keep you stuck in a pit of self-hatred that you can never climb out of.

Leaving this pit also requires an overall perspective shift. Women are not dangling something out of your reach because they think you're unattractive or mocking you. Women are just people like you who may or may not want to do some things, with or without other people.
Think of it more simply. Some people don't like gaming. Some people don't like gaming with other people. Some people only game with specific people. Or replace gaming with another activity. That's not because they look down on other people, but because they have preferences. I acknowledge that attraction and preferences are definitely not a neutral thing in this world, but my point stands that people are people, and there will be the right people for you if you love and esteem yourself first. And man, if they don't appreciate you, don't let them in your life, because they don't deserve you.

I want to end by recommending an interesting book called The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by bell hooks. It's written sincerely and compassionately and acknowledges the difficulties of being a man in a patriarchal society and today's world, and it encourages men to get in touch with themselves, to stop drowning out their emotions and selves. In the book, she mentions that we all want to love men, whether it be fathers, brothers, sons, etc. and I believe you can find a free pdf of this book online somewhere. I hope that you can be encouraged to love and cherish yourself, and to be curious about the you that you don't know or understand yet, and all the amazing person you are behind the self-hatred. You are loved and lovable.
And, here's a song I like by Josh Groban :) You are Loved

About the offloading of the self-hatred into women to blame for feeling unworthy and such, many do actually do what you described and it's immediately problematic in my opinion because I believe the behaviours of people are something that they had no say or control over thus they are not to blame for anything that occurs to you. I honestly reject the word blame as I don't believe in it. All I could do is explain a phenomenon occuring in a group and not blame the occurence on the group.

I don't believe in worth in the universal and cosmic sense but I do believe that social worth exist in the human world. I think that rejecting that supposed currency system is possible and could prove beneficial but I find it only a means to the end and that would probably be contentment. One thing I always had issues with was the message of building yourself, of improving yourself and loving yourself and how that then ties into other loving you. How is that not conditional? How is that not a way to earn set thing? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but it does feel like it insinuates that, yes, even love has conditions to be met. The funny thing is that I actually do voluntary work +5 hours a week. I do fun things with kids, parents, neighbors and elderly people. I like it a lot, I will try to see if I can do something with that in the future so my surroundings are I think okay and actually have nothing to do with the way I feel. I think it's the underlying interactions with mostly adults that have me scratching my head and jaded. Kids are the best, I love them so much. They are different than adults. I don't know I just find them precious. But I digress, sorry for that, I just thought about them when you said to surround yourself with loving people.

And thanks for recommending me that book and song!

Im too ugly to be loved so i feel u.

Yeah, me too. It is what it is, just have to find a way to either cope or escape this hell.

If it's any consolation, I'm an incel too. My problem is that—since my chances of being with a woman (without paying) are practically zero—I tend to console myself with porn and fap. I see a beautiful woman in a porn video or an image, and I find comfort in feeling like I'm connecting with her through my own pleasure. I know it's pathetic, but hey, I just wanted to get it off my chest here.

Yo, me too! Like I am compulsively masturbating every 1 to 3 hours drowning myself in pleasure to just forget about everything else. I sometimes want to stop but I can't. It upsets me as it only reinforces our social worth in this world. Maybe if we live long enough we mifht see the rise of humanoid robots fused with like local super-duper-ultra-mega smart AI brains. That actually gets me a bit excited just from the tech point of view already.

Anyways! Thanks everyone for your words. It has really made me think of my stance on certain topics. I have a lot to think about. I really appreciate how kind and nice you all are and perhaps I have to reassess how I view adult humans lol

 

[infinitanocte]

One thing I always had issues with was the message of building yourself, of improving yourself and loving yourself and how that then ties into other loving you. How is that not conditional? How is that not a way to earn set thing? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but it does feel like it insinuates that, yes, even love has conditions to be met.

I hear where you're coming from. I do feel like often, love or just approval and being liked does feel like it has conditions. To me, it's useful to consider the different things that we might be including in the conversation here. Love, social currency, approval, popularity, are all a bit different, but also all things that can come with "improving yourself and loving yourself" under the self-improvement rhetoric people feed us. I don't think improving and loving ourselves should be a pre-requisite to being loved. We are lovable, even as we are, even if sometimes we're an asshole. But I guess it also depends on what kind of love you are looking for and from whom. Things are often conditional, which is often also unfair and unreasonable. And some people are not capable of offering the love we want from them.
But I think about when we were first born, knowing nothing, having nothing--at that time, I think what we all deserved was unconditional love. Although I think we all deserve unconditional love, at the same time, the skeptic in me also doubts that it truly exists. Is there anyone who can love without judgement at all? Yet, I believe there must be love in which the condition is simply that we must be ourselves. Sorry that was a bit of a tangent. But TLDR; I feel similarly that lots of things are conditional, even if they shouldn't. But maybe those who love us, also judge us.

The funny thing is that I actually do voluntary work +5 hours a week. I do fun things with kids, parents, neighbors and elderly people. I like it a lot, I will try to see if I can do something with that in the future so my surroundings are I think okay and actually have nothing to do with the way I feel.

This is awesome! I love that and am glad to hear it :) Good luck, man. I think it's really great that you volunteer with people. I'd like to take a leaf out of your book and go volunteer, too! I also love that you mention how great kids are. Kids are underappreciated and the most oppressed group of people in this world. I'll bet they have a great time with you and appreciate you as you appreciate them.

Actually it's quite funny how not a lot has happened in my life personally when it comes to racism. Maybe a couple of squabbles or small hiccups as was born in and still live in Europe as a black male. I just observe the world through different media and see what I see. I don't know, I just feel shame for being associated with certain groups of people, of being judged or perceived in a certain way just because I share something with another group of people. I never feel at home in the place that should be my homeland. I guess I am so disconnected and disassociated that this racist way of talking and seeing myself and others like me doesn't affect me.

Have you ever read Black Skin, White Masks by Frantz Fanon? I feel like what he writes about in his book is exactly what you're describing here. He's a black francophone philosopher who's written this classic on the black experience (but especially of Antilleans and francophones, the french-speaking) that is really quite applicable to far beyond its original context. I wonder if reading it might make you feel a bit seen. Some of it can be a bit hard to digest as it's a bit old and with the language it uses, too. Plus, it was translated from French (but hey, if you know French, you could read the original). Online reading guides can help with picking out the key points of academic readings like this, though, or if you're not interested in reading the whole book, those can give you an idea of the concepts in it. It's beautifully written if you are interested in reading it, though.

From Chapter 6, the one related to psychopathology (p. 141) he starts talking about what has made the black man feel othered and abnormal. Rather than that the black child has become abnormal in psychopathology from family experiences as Freud would have had us believe, Fanon mentions that it's upon contact with the white world that a black child becomes abnormal.
You mention that you observe the world through different media, and that you feel shame for being associated with certain groups of people. Fanon also mentions from p. 145 that in the idea of collective catharsis, aggression is released through certain outlets--for example, media, like comic books. However, the "bad guys" in these comics are always represented as black or indian people, while the good people are white people. Young children reading these comics will inevitably identify with the "good guys." But what about black children? Then, they are forced to other themselves; they must identify with the "good," the white people, and reject their black selves, which are perceived as "bad" in media. The Antilleans, who adopt a "white" way of speaking and thinking, only find out that they are in fact black upon going to Europe, where they are treated as inferior for the color of their skin. Hence also the name, Black Skin, White Masks. Fanon describes how the black man is constantly subjected to seeing distorted images of himself in media, from other people, and the pain of doing so.

Here's a quote I find particularly poignant:

The Negro is a toy in the white man's hands; so, in order to shatter the hellish cycle, he explodes. I cannot go to a film without seeing myself. I wait for me. In the interval, just before the film starts, I wait for me. The people in the theater are watching me, examining me, waiting for me. A Negro groom is going to appear. My heart makes my head swim. The crippled veteran of the Pacific war says to my brother, "Resign yourself to your color the way I got used to my stump; we're both victims."' Nevertheless with all my strength I refuse to accept that amputation. I feel in myself a soul as immense as the world, truly a soul as deep as the deepest of rivers, my chest has the power to expand without limit. I am a master and I am advised to adopt the humility of the cripple. Yesterday, awakening to the world, I saw the sky tum upon itself utterly and wholly. I wanted to rise, but the disemboweled silence fell back upon me, its wings paralyzed. Without responsibility, straddling Nothingness and Infinity, I began to weep.
- Frantz Fanon, Black Skin White Masks p. 140

That's just some aspects from the book that I felt sounded applicable to what you shared, but I'm not sure if that resonates with you. I think you sound like you are far from not being affected by racist ways of talking and seeing yourself and others like you, by the way that you describe feeling shame and being judged, as well as feeling alienated from your own homeland.

 

[monkeyfff]

I hear where you're coming from. I do feel like often, love or just approval and being liked does feel like it has conditions. To me, it's useful to consider the different things that we might be including in the conversation here. Love, social currency, approval, popularity, are all a bit different, but also all things that can come with "improving yourself and loving yourself" under the self-improvement rhetoric people feed us. I don't think improving and loving ourselves should be a pre-requisite to being loved. We are lovable, even as we are, even if sometimes we're an asshole. But I guess it also depends on what kind of love you are looking for and from whom. Things are often conditional, which is often also unfair and unreasonable. And some people are not capable of offering the love we want from them.
But I think about when we were first born, knowing nothing, having nothing--at that time, I think what we all deserved was unconditional love. Although I think we all deserve unconditional love, at the same time, the skeptic in me also doubts that it truly exists. Is there anyone who can love without judgement at all? Yet, I believe there must be love in which the condition is simply that we must be ourselves. Sorry that was a bit of a tangent. But TLDR; I feel similarly that lots of things are conditional, even if they shouldn't. But maybe those who love us, also judge us.


This is awesome! I love that and am glad to hear it :) Good luck, man. I think it's really great that you volunteer with people. I'd like to take a leaf out of your book and go volunteer, too! I also love that you mention how great kids are. Kids are underappreciated and the most oppressed group of people in this world. I'll bet they have a great time with you and appreciate you as you appreciate them.


Have you ever read Black Skin, White Masks by Frantz Fanon? I feel like what he writes about in his book is exactly what you're describing here. He's a black francophone philosopher who's written this classic on the black experience (but especially of Antilleans and francophones, the french-speaking) that is really quite applicable to far beyond its original context. I wonder if reading it might make you feel a bit seen. Some of it can be a bit hard to digest as it's a bit old and with the language it uses, too. Plus, it was translated from French (but hey, if you know French, you could read the original). Online reading guides can help with picking out the key points of academic readings like this, though, or if you're not interested in reading the whole book, those can give you an idea of the concepts in it. It's beautifully written if you are interested in reading it, though.

From Chapter 6, the one related to psychopathology (p. 141) he starts talking about what has made the black man feel othered and abnormal. Rather than that the black child has become abnormal in psychopathology from family experiences as Freud would have had us believe, Fanon mentions that it's upon contact with the white world that a black child becomes abnormal.
You mention that you observe the world through different media, and that you feel shame for being associated with certain groups of people. Fanon also mentions from p. 145 that in the idea of collective catharsis, aggression is released through certain outlets--for example, media, like comic books. However, the "bad guys" in these comics are always represented as black or indian people, while the good people are white people. Young children reading these comics will inevitably identify with the "good guys." But what about black children? Then, they are forced to other themselves; they must identify with the "good," the white people, and reject their black selves, which are perceived as "bad" in media. The Antilleans, who adopt a "white" way of speaking and thinking, only find out that they are in fact black upon going to Europe, where they are treated as inferior for the color of their skin. Hence also the name, Black Skin, White Masks. Fanon describes how the black man is constantly subjected to seeing distorted images of himself in media, from other people, and the pain of doing so.

Here's a quote I find particularly poignant:


That's just some aspects from the book that I felt sounded applicable to what you shared, but I'm not sure if that resonates with you. I think you sound like you are far from not being affected by racist ways of talking and seeing yourself and others like you, by the way that you describe feeling shame and being judged, as well as feeling alienated from your own homeland.

You are immensely kind. Seeing what you wrote and shared doesn't feel fair to be given to someone like me. Thank you even if I find it hard to process all this.

 

[infinitanocte]

You are immensely kind. Seeing what you wrote and shared doesn't feel fair to be given to someone like me. Thank you even if I find it hard to process all this.

You are a gentle and kind person. I think the pain obscures it from you, and I hope that one day you will see it, too.