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orpheus_

orpheus_

Student
Apr 26, 2024
171
I cannot make up my mind on anything. I have no opinions, I cannot formulate them. I'm slow in thinking and literally cannot do logical operations without a piece of paper to write everything out. I have a terrible attention span and short term memory. I have almost-zero pattern recognition. My mind feels like a chaotic soup of half-thoughts which never come into anything meaningful, they just waste energy.

I've been like this since I can remember, it's not a result of medications/trauma/mental illness.


Also the genetic side. My parents are both - with all respect to them - literal idiots. Like, really, I love them and I think they're genuinely good people but they definitely don't have much to do with intelligence. They cannot do any basic logical reasoning.


One person who knows the the most told me a few times, that I am actually probably much below average intelligence. That I seem intelligent, but in reality I am stupid and unable to think logically or understand concepts. I know they didn't say that out of malice, just.. pure honesty.


People I meet always say they value me for my intelligence. Which.. doesn't exist. I just create an illusion of it because I talk a lot, but it's all just random shit to fill up the silence. It just seems like I have a lot to say. I also use wise-sounding language because I read a lot as a kid, so a kind of literary vocabulary and way of speaking got "ingrained" into my brain (not in English though because it's not my native language). Still it's just that: pretty words, and many of them. No thought behind it.


Also I talked about it to my therapist but she insist it's "just bad self esteem talk", and often casually calls me "very intelligent", well that's bullshit. Either she fell into the illusion too or just tries to cheer me up because telling someone they're stupid is deemed socially rude. And I'm paying her to make me feel better, right.


I know that intelligence is a curse, it makes you more miserable and it's just an illusion that "smart people have it better". The fact is, most of the time, people who are less intelligent are happier. Yet I still envy people who are smart in any way. I wish I were like them, because I would like to understand things. I KNOW it's does not make them happier. I know I just want it because of society's expectations and my past experiences.


And the thing is, so many people call me "intelligent" that I subconsciously believe it. It's the only thing I value about myself. Quite ironic... Because it's not even real. I keep convincing myself that I'm not actually stupid (although all of the evidence says otherwise) because, I guess, I don't want to lose the only thing that makes me feel like I'm worth anything (especially to other people).


How do I come to terms with the fact that I'm just, well, stupid? And how do I stop fooling myself that I'm "intelligent"? Like fuck how do I stop lying to myself. I know that I shouldn't obsess so much over it, that intelligence is not everything but somehow the thought I am stupid makes me hate myself even more.
 
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qualityOV3Rquantity

qualityOV3Rquantity

Experienced
Jul 27, 2024
278
I'm not trying to invalidate how you feel, but based on this, it doesn't sound like you have "much below average intelligence". Being able to introspect to this level and expressing it in a coherent and logical way, like you have here, is not something very stupid people could do. Even less so in a second language, as you mention you're ESL. And the fact that lots of people tell you that you are intelligent - even if you don't accept that it means you're smart, it probably means you aren't stupid. You say that people just think you are smart because you talk a lot, but it doesn't really make sense to me, because usually the more people talk, the more obvious it is whether they know what they're talking about or they're just spouting whatever bullshit comes to their heads. In fact, if you are actually dumb but you've somehow fooled everyone around you (except for your close friend) into thinking that you're intelligent, you probably are at least very socially intelligent and know how to relate to and communicate with people well. In all likelihood, you are probably just a normal average intelligence person with low self-esteem, and with some issues with brain fog.
 
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Cauliflour

Cauliflour

The masochist who doodles.
Mar 24, 2025
663
The fact you've recognised that you have low intelligence is a sign you're not as dumb as you think you are. Being able to see the bigger picture is a sign of intelligence.
 
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-Link-

-Link-

Member
Aug 25, 2018
765
I'm not trying to invalidate how you feel, but based on this, it doesn't sound like you have "much below average intelligence". Being able to introspect to this level and expressing it in a coherent and logical way, like you have here, is not something very stupid people could do. Even less so in a second language, as you mention you're ESL. And the fact that lots of people tell you that you are intelligent - even if you don't accept that it means you're smart, it probably means you aren't stupid. You say that people just think you are smart because you talk a lot, but it doesn't really make sense to me, because usually the more people talk, the more obvious it is whether they know what they're talking about or they're just spouting whatever bullshit comes to their heads. In fact, if you are actually dumb but you've somehow fooled everyone around you (except for your close friend) into thinking that you're intelligent, you probably are at least very socially intelligent and know how to relate to and communicate with people well. In all likelihood, you are probably just a normal average intelligence person with low self-esteem, and with some issues with brain fog.
Echoing this.

You're intelligent enough to have articulated yourself here and intelligent enough that you're "fooling people" into assuming you're intelligent. So... like, based on this alone, I'm kinda thinking there's a pretty good argument to be made for (at a minimum) "average intelligence" here.

In addition to low self-esteem and brain fog as possible factors that could mimic a below-average intelligence, I'm also wondering how often you're engaging your brain in a meaningful way. The brain does need regular exercise just like a muscle, or else it can stagnate.

A few other considerations: Overthinking can mimic slow thought, self-doubt can feel like ignorance, avoidance can mimic inability, a lack of motivation can feel like incompetence, and fear of failure can stymie performance. There are many different things that could be going on.

To answer the topic question, you'd want to look at the whole of life, of which intelligence is only one part of many. Everyone has some kind of talent or ability in them, and a lot of things in life don't require conventional "IQ" intelligence. Weaknesses and strengths. We all have them. You turn your attention to the latter, and run with whatever that is; people of all levels of intelligence would benefit from doing this.
 
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DTA

DTA

Desperado
May 3, 2025
98
I agree with the others. You articulated yourself well in your post and your grammar and punctuation are far better than many I've seen.

Intelligence comes in many forms, not just academic and philosophical. I've met many a redneck dropout who had little academic knowledge but were very wise in the world around them. They seemed like simple people but could expertly build things and some were master woodsmen.

My point is, they found what they liked and excelled at that. Perhaps you can do that as well?

Also, for what it's worth, it's been my experience that those who proclaim their great intelligence are often some of the dumbest people. Truly "intelligent" people tend to be humble and often doubt themselves, much as you are doubting yourself.
 
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ImogenHeap

ImogenHeap

realtime
Aug 29, 2025
22
Its kinda scary how close this hits home. It felt like I was the one who wrote this. I've begun to accept that I'm probably not going to amount to much, come up with new ideas, and so on... and I think that lowers some value I have of myself (as I do value intelligence to many extents).

I'm extremely slow at thinking and only excel in something if given more time than others (who would do better if they sunk the same amount of time), I make insane errors, have tracking issues, and so on... people usually see the stuff I've thought about for months and had to wrestle with to the best of my abilities and call me 'above average' in intelligence, but I don't think they would call me intelligent if I were to sit with them and try to learn a new topic together (given same prior knowledge), they would instead realize I'm dumb. This has in fact happened in the past, and they stopped calling me intelligent, and whenever some topic requiring good thinking quality comes up I notice their demeanor change w/ me compared to when they used to think I was intelligent.

It's one of the reasons that contributes to a reason to commit whenever I'm suicidal. I often think life would be better if I could just think faster, and better, and I'm probably right in thinking this (even if I thought intelligence = IQ -- which I don't as you can see in the last para -- I think it's not causal that high IQ -> depression, etc..., it's just a moderate/low correlation, iirc.)

I don't buy introspection as tracking intelligence sufficiently ("if someone is able to introspect, they're intelligent"). I'm guessing however I use 'intelligence' is probably some sort of bundle concept where a set of traits (I don't really know what they are) but when bundled together + at some level for each of the traits, I would say someone possessing this particular bundle of traits is intelligent given that they are above a level for each of the traits. I think IQ is probably part of that bundle. I'm skeptical of where the true average for intelligence is, so I'm not really sure where I'd fall, but just going off of experience of people who I've encountered and people who I've surrounded myself I think I'm either average or below average.
 
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Hibiki

Hibiki

lay dagger dead inside a lonely bed
Oct 13, 2025
39
everyone else has already made very good points and given great advice so i don't have too much to contribute, but have you heard of the concept of neuroplasticity? basically, the brain is like a muscle in the sense that you can alter its shape through training it. reading (which you already do enough of!), puzzles, and other brain exercises as well as other fulfilling activities in general (listening to music, creating art, playing a sport, having meaningful social interactions, traveling, etc.) can, if done consistently enough, effectively re-wire your brain and strengthen the neural connections involved. this is why it is very much true that anyone can become smarter if they choose to.

slightly unrelated but also quite insightful: neuroplasticity as a concept is also linked to mental health and recovery, since a low self-esteem just comes from repeated behaviors/train of thought. the parts of the brain that enforce negative thoughts are simply being reinforced, and those related to positive thinking are effectively weakened and/or replaced. improving self-esteem is really just unlearning bad habits.

while this does take a lot of consistency and diligence, especially for those of us with depression and low motivation, and it's not even really something i have the energy to keep up with myself, i find it fascinating that the brain is so malleable. i wanted to share this tidbit with you in case you also found it interesting and maybe even helpful. regardless, i think the introspection you've done, your ability to feel inspired by others, and the pleasure you derive from reading all point to the intelligence that you certainly do have. surely, with how many people see your brilliance, they can't all be mistaken; there must be some truth to their words, don't you think? ૮ • ﻌ - ა
 
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