How much pain are we supposed to endure in life?

[greyhound]

I've been chronically ill for the past 27 years. I got super depressed during high school but my first definitive suicidal plans were around age 20. I was 'saved' by my parents but wasn't able to get a diagnosis for my illness until around 10 years ago around age 30. I've tried treating it with everything since then but nothing has really worked, some minor improvements but other things worse - in general I'm just older and worse for the wear.

I've been fairly open with my family about my latest suicidal ideas. Their main response is that life is hard and I should just suck it up. I know I'm going to get this a lot over Christmas from the rest of my family when I'm they're in town. My brother just says he knows clients that are worse off (rehabing physio patients) and I shouldn't complain. Part of the problem is that with my illness you look mostly normal.

I know the Buddha said that life is suffering. I remember scoffing when I first heard this as kid. But he was right, it is a freaking grind. It also doesn't seem like there are safeguards in place such that only as much suffering as a person can handle is doled out to them.

Religion seems to be universally opposed to suicide (except for Shinto, which maybe explains all the Japanese themed usernames / avatars on here). But religion also seems to be full of BS with all the eternal heaven/hell and original sin, etc.

I mean I get that suffering is part of the human experience, but the potential for suffering seems to be infinite while our capacity for absorbing it is definitely finite. I think in my case it's not that the pain is constantly unbearable, it's just the complete helplessness in fixing.

I'm sort of in a bad spot in that I'm afraid to CTB but also terrified at the thought of living for decades more with the illness. It's at the point of getting random panic attacks here and there at being stuck in this situation - I'm sure many of you are in a similar boat.

 

[Ta555]

Fuck religion and fuck suffering. No one is SUPPOSED to endure anything. Life is random and meaningless (but doesn't meant it can't be beautiful and fulfilling for people). I fucking hate the whole religious bullshit of how god gives suffering to build your character or test you or whatever. That's just bs people who never had to deal with extremely difficult problems mouth off to make themselves feel better. Because it's just a fucking joke. We get dealt hands in life and some people worse than others through absolutely no fault of their own.
We don't have to endure anything. Didn't ask to come into existence so shouldn't be forced to stay. I'm like you, the fear of failure is the biggest thing holding me back. But don't know how long that will last. Full suspension seems pretty solid to me.
Also, I'm sorry you're having to deal with chronic illness and sending you hugs.

 

[Snake of Eden]

Our bodies seem to have capacity to endure infinite amount of pain mental and physical. I dont know if this is scientifically measured or (dis)proven but it sure seems to me that way. Of course we have a way around the pain like blacking out or freeze response but that seems to work only temporarily and our bodies and minds yet can grow even more tolerant of pain. Of course I am not talking about the physical body which is obviously is limited and fragile and can be destroyed easily. Im talking about the pure sensation of pain. I truly believe we are designed with unlimited capacity to endure infinite amount of pain and still stay entact. Whatever it takes as long as the organism stays alive

 

[Elegy]

60 years. 6 decades I say. If you can make it to age 60, you've more than earned your angel wings.

 

[Pluto]

My brother just says he knows clients that are worse off (rehabing physio patients) and I shouldn't complain.

Your brother's argument is of a type sometimes called the misery olympics. It is not valid and your feelings are completely OK.

I know the Buddha said that life is suffering. I remember scoffing when I first heard this as kid. But he was right, it is a freaking grind

What the Buddha meant is that suffering is an intrinsic aspect of human life and cannot be evaded through changes in circumstances. Quoting Dan Millman: "If you don't get what you want, you suffer. But even when you get exactly what you want, you still suffer because you can't hold onto it forever."

In its correct context, this is not intended to be a depressing message, but an acknowledgement of the futility of all materialist approaches to terminate suffering. Instead, the goal is ego death (aka enlightenment, liberation, moksha, etc.), which is a state in which we realise that our idea of who we are is a false, phantom self consisting completely of psychological conditioning and endless mental noise.

This message is pretty useless if it is just another belief system, but that is the gist of it. When the false self is exposed via various methods, people reports all sorts of blissful experiences and no longer regard the world as anything more than a superficial appearance. Permanent liberation is far from easy for most people, however.

 

[FuneralCry]

There is unlimited potential for suffering in this life, there is no limit as to how much we can suffer. If we think we have it bad now, it can get so much worse. It can be awful being trapped in this human body as it can torture us. I think the problem is that the society denies the option of euthanasia and people are denied peaceful ways to exit. I think if that option was available it would comfort people who are suffering. In this life, pain and suffering are inevitable and sometimes there is nothing that can help. That is just a fact of life.

 

[HiImPaul]

60 years. 6 decades I say. If you can make it to age 60, you've more than earned your angel wings.

I'm only 22. I can't imagine living like this for longer than I've even been alive.

 

[fox_wannabe]

I'm only 22. I can't imagine living like this for longer than I've even been alive.

Actually same here, I cannot wait for pain to stop

 

[greyhound]

It seems like different countries (Switzerland, Canada) are starting to come around to the idea of allowing people to exit their body if the pain/difficulty of life becomes too great. There must be some basis to these programs though. Who decides if the condition meets the threshold of eligibility?

 

[Susannah]

The only way to endure life is to grow, keep your expectations low and work with your mental health, find strategies. No one can really help you to live or be happy. We're all alone in our heads, so it's up to each one of us to make the best or worst out of what we have.

Lots of loveS

 

[D&D]

I think however much one is able to endure ... while there is no limit to the amount of pain life can provide us with, there is a limit to how much we can endure. Hence this site.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

It seems like different countries (Switzerland, Canada) are starting to come around to the idea of allowing people to exit their body if the pain/difficulty of life becomes too great. There must be some basis to these programs though. Who decides if the condition meets the threshold of eligibility?

It differs in every country. Belgium has the most lax laws regarding euthanasia. They approve for mental illness and also minors.

 

[GentleJerk]

I've been chronically ill for the past 27 years. I got super depressed during high school but my first definitive suicidal plans were around age 20. I was 'saved' by my parents but wasn't able to get a diagnosis for my illness until around 10 years ago around age 30. I've tried treating it with everything since then but nothing has really worked, some minor improvements but other things worse - in general I'm just older and worse for the wear.

I've been fairly open with my family about my latest suicidal ideas. Their main response is that life is hard and I should just suck it up. I know I'm going to get this a lot over Christmas from the rest of my family when I'm they're in town. My brother just says he knows clients that are worse off (rehabing physio patients) and I shouldn't complain. Part of the problem is that with my illness you look mostly normal.

I know the Buddha said that life is suffering. I remember scoffing when I first heard this as kid. But he was right, it is a freaking grind. It also doesn't seem like there are safeguards in place such that only as much suffering as a person can handle is doled out to them.

Religion seems to be universally opposed to suicide (except for Shinto, which maybe explains all the Japanese themed usernames / avatars on here). But religion also seems to be full of BS with all the eternal heaven/hell and original sin, etc.

I mean I get that suffering is part of the human experience, but the potential for suffering seems to be infinite while our capacity for absorbing it is definitely finite. I think in my case it's not that the pain is constantly unbearable, it's just the complete helplessness in fixing.

I'm sort of in a bad spot in that I'm afraid to CTB but also terrified at the thought of living for decades more with the illness. It's at the point of getting random panic attacks here and there at being stuck in this situation - I'm sure many of you are in a similar boat.

It's can be almost impossible for other people to understand what its like to endure the kind of suffering that chronic illnesses create. It's not that they won't understand, it's that they can't. Unless they personally experience it of course. My heart goes out to you.

Then there's the matter of psychological impact. The level of tolerance one has depends on their mental capacity to endure it. This is always subject to change and despite popular belief is not always in our control.

One example is how things like breaking bones and knee surgery, or getting sick and going to hospital barely effected me when I was young. Psychological changes have happened since then and now things like surgery and hospital are positively terrifying. I believe some of these changes have to do with my chronic illness and how its affected my gut. No amount of wanting to ignore or override it works, It's completely involuntary and intrusive.

And 'looking normal' doesnt discount anything. During the week that my Grandfather died from cancer, surprisingly he looked almost normal to me other than the fact that he had lost some weight. Making a judgement about a persons suffering based on how they look is ridiculous.

Religion seems to be opposed to suicide, but in all original religious texts you will find some degree of understanding towards it. The least accepting seems to be the Torah and the Quran, and yet they both have more than one mention of suicide that is considered acceptable under certain circumstances.

Aside from the two well known references to suicide in the Buddhist Dharma, there are the self immolations. Over 150 Tibetan monks just since 2009. The most well known is the Vietnamese monk who recited a prayer for Amitabah Buddha before setting himself on fire as a protest against Catholic rule. The argument is that this was an act of self-sacrifice, death for the sake of others aimed at moving the hearts of the oppressors and calling attention to the suffering of the people.

This is interesting to consider for a chronically ill suicidal person, who has a tendency towards Buddhism and belief in reincarnation... They might consider thier condition is such that he/she cannot sufficiently gain merit and help others. They might believe that they are unable to move further along their path due to the diseases debilitating effects. They may wish to ctb either in order to relieve the burden of others out of compassion, or find their way to another existence were they can gain merit and begin to help others once again. In this way it can be thought of as a self sacrifice for the greater good. I know some people just think its all bull, but for someone with a tendency towards these beliefs Its something worth considering.

I can 100% understand about being in that kind of bad spot. I think a good position for someone to be in, would be one where they have access to an acceptable means of having a peaceful death should they decide they need it.

Sorry for the lengthy post, a lot of what you said resonated with me!

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

60 years. 6 decades I say. If you can make it to age 60, you've more than earned your angel wings.

This checks out, @whywere is proof of angels existing!

 

[whywere]

This checks out, @whywere is proof of angels existing!

Thank you so, so much!! You are an angel yourself with your loving and caring spirit. It is an honor to be able to call you a good friend.

You are a lovely soul with a heart of gold and a beautiful personality and presence.

Had a lousy day as I was told that I was "too old" for a position, and YOU REALLY helped lift my spirits.

Thank you so very much and have a awesome weekend!

Walter

 

[WonderingSoul]

I don't know. I really don't think humans are suppose to go through so much pain in one lifetime. I think stuff like religion and coping mechanisms is the reason people keep trying justify the constant suffering that keeps happening to them.

 

[greyhound]

This is interesting to consider for a chronically ill suicidal person, who has a tendency towards Buddhism and belief in reincarnation... They might consider thier condition is such that he/she cannot sufficiently gain merit and help others. They might believe that they are unable to move further along their path due to the diseases debilitating effects. They may wish to ctb either in order to relieve the burden of others out of compassion, or find their way to another existence were they can gain merit and begin to help others once again. In this way it can be thought of as a self sacrifice for the greater good. I know some people just think its all bull, but for someone with a tendency towards these beliefs Its something worth considering.

I have been thinking about similar things recently. I am basically non functional as a human these days. I can no longer work to support myself. Am already a semi burden on my aging parents even though I have savings and am still able to contribute to living costs to some degree. When my savings run out I have no idea what I'd do. Sometimes people tell me to 'help others' to try to give my life meaning and purpose. But I can barely help myself. I don't really have any extra energy to put into helping others. I feel like maybe if I CTB and reincarnate I could better serve the collective with my consciousness. Although I admit the thought of a young healthy body is certainly appealing from purely selfish reasons. But I just don't see how my existing and ill in this semi zombie state for a couple more decades would be doing anyone any good.

 

[aslank98]

I'm right there with you buddy, I was born with mild cerebral palsy and have suffered for 23 years. Everyday my joints crack and pop with constant aches and pains along with chronic fatigue.

I'm supposed to compete with other able bodied healthy people for jobs who don't have brain damage yeah fuck that.

I hate the piece of shit doctor that saved me at birth, self righteous cunt who thought that saving me was a sane choice. I want that doctor to suffer like I did, but to them they did the right thing and probably felt good doing it fucking delusional.

I went to the GP a couple years ago to try and get some assistance with the difficulties I face in life and this is what the bitch said to me "You don't have it that bad, I've seen people with extreme cases of cerebral palsy who can't walk or talk" I was so close to flying off the handle and losing my shit that day I just walked out the office and slammed the door as hard as possible and never went back to that fucking useless GP again. These cunts are useless they have a good salary but they don't give a flying fuck about their patients only if their problems can be solved with ease, If it's something permanent then they want you gone and out of their hair because they are fucking useless pricks.

I wish I had answers I wish there was a reason for our suffering but I just don't know why we get fucked in life like this, god is a cruel bastard. When I die I want fucking answers but I won't get them because this is a never ending cycle of shit.

 

[GentleJerk]

I have been thinking about similar things recently. I am basically non functional as a human these days. I can no longer work to support myself. Am already a semi burden on my aging parents even though I have savings and am still able to contribute to living costs to some degree. When my savings run out I have no idea what I'd do. Sometimes people tell me to 'help others' to try to give my life meaning and purpose. But I can barely help myself. I don't really have any extra energy to put into helping others. I feel like maybe if I CTB and reincarnate I could better serve the collective with my consciousness. Although I admit the thought of a young healthy body is certainly appealing from purely selfish reasons. But I just don't see how my existing and ill in this semi zombie state for a couple more decades would be doing anyone any good.

No one can expected you to endure more than you can put up with. There is no shame in being at your wits end. Also It definitely says something good about your character, that you are thinking of others when dealing with all these difficulties day-to-day. What more can a person ask for!

 

[Mixo]

I'm in a similar boat as you. Helplessly ill and have tried just about everything. People just can't grapple with the idea of self-deliverance because they aren't suffering and therefore don't know what it's like to suffer endlessly with no solution in sight. It's a function of ignorance but it is very much also a function of privilege, in many cases. In any case, no matter what anyone says, it is your choice. Not an easy one, of course, but it is your life and no one else has to live in your body but you.