Venting How many men here are actual losers, "scrubs", low-value males, etc? Don't you get tired of seeing others succeed where you fail all the time?

[ChildrensITV]

As men, we're men to "man up", be assertive, dominant and successful. We are the sex that is supposed to "rescue" a woman and be the stable rock in her life. We are supposed to have our "shit together". Men who don't meet this yardstick are called losers. Men who don't have a career by a certain age are called "losers". "Valid" reasons for not dating a man include:

- he doesn't earn enough
- his job/he is low-value/-status
- he lives with his mum and dad
- he doesn't drive
- he isn't physically attractive/tall

The standard that we are held to - by everyone (by men (friends, coworkers) and women) - is tough if you can't even make it onto the first step. And cuz men are so competitive, you get a clear sense of when you are failing.

Are any other men out there actual scrubs, losers or low-value men (as determined by FemaleDatingStrategy) or by society in general? Do you have friends who boast about their career-ladder progression, their moving into a (new, bigger) home, their getting into a new relationship and how their lover adores their virility and success? It's part of why I want to CTB - because everything I've tried in life has resulted in failure. I am literally the loser that TV shows used to talk about when I was growing up.

Were you successful at one time and then lost it or were you always a loser?

I feel like my whole life has been watching other men (or people in general) move on through different life-stages, while I stay stagnant and trying in vein. I can't even bring myself to use Facebook anymore cuz it's full of people who have full lives, meanwhile my life is like a teenager's, in terms of achievement. In fact, probably behind them too. No matter what I try, I fail. It seems like there is only one way out of failing as a man, having poor mental health and being a fucking loser.

NOTE:

1. I don't want this to be a discussion about which sex has it worse. Women have their own struggles that are offtopic here. I just want to talk to men whose life is going nowhere and who are losers.
2. I don't want to get strawmanned into "a relationship isn't the be all end all". I am not talking about just relationships. I am talking about how men are measured in terms of success, and how men feel any sense of accomplishment.
3. I don't want anyone coming in here saying: "Men cannot discuss their problems! This makes me feel as if you are blaming others!". This is not to blame others. This isn't about you right now. This is about men not being able to achieve goals because of lack of intelligence, because of depression and anxiety, because of constant knockbacks, rejections and poor mental health.

To any men replying, please just focus on the on-topic posts and ignore anything off-topic

 

[Octavia]

… Could you stop feeding yourself incel baloney? It's not good for you, a man's value is not solely determined by their wages. You should really consider getting out of circles who assign values to humans, we just don't work that way and these places are merely going to get you stuck in a loop of self loathing.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

I always felt like a loser my whole life, not just compared to other guys my age, but people in general. Bad genes, dropping out of college and accumulating debt for no reason, being emotionally unstable, and just being too dysfunctional overall to even take care of myself properly.

Some of us just aren't meant for life here and that's me for sure. Once I CTB, I won't have to feel like a loser anymore because I will hopefully feel nothing.

 

[ChildrensITV]

I always felt like a loser my whole life, not just compared to other guys my age, but people in general. Bad genes, dropping out of college and accumulating debt for no reason, being emotionally unstable, and just being too dysfunctional overall to even take care of myself properly.

Some of us just aren't meant for life here and that's me for sure. Once I CTB, I won't have to feel like a loser anymore because I will hopefully feel nothing.

I am right there with you. I would love to become productive and valuable but there is too much in the way. Sometimes, a person is just to fucked to be repaired.

 

[card1nal]

… Could you stop feeding yourself incel baloney? It's not good for you, a man's value is not solely determined by their wages. You should really consider getting out of circles who assign values to humans, we just don't work that way and these places are merely going to get you stuck in a loop of self loathing.

I completely agree with this. To the original poster: there are so many people out there who do not care about your status or your place in life. The more you loathe yourself, the more others will see you in the same way you see yourself. I've known plenty of "losers" as you describe them, who simply lived their life according to what was best for them, and were able to achieve the things they wanted. They got married, focused on themselves, got decent jobs, have kids. Success is not defined by when you achieve it or what you've achieved; success is subjective.

Stop allowing this criterion for being a "real man" define you. Please try not to compare yourself to others, and for the love of god, get out of incel spaces that tell you that you aren't good enough because of your genetics or current place in life. I know that the social pressures put on men are tough, but the more you allow your thoughts to spiral, the less you'll believe that you can achieve at least a modicum of your goals. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that so many men, unfortunately, become engulfed by.

 

[never mind me]

Maybe you should change with whom you surround yourself and/or what kind of media you consume? As a heterosexual female I can tell you that a man who tries to be dominant and wants to "rescue" me would certainly be someone I would try to avoid at all costs and not someone I would wish to have any kind of relationship with. Not as a friend and much less as a partner. My boy-friend of 12 years is a rather small guy (actually he is smaller and slimmer than me) and although he eventually managed to build himself a career, for the first few years of our relationship he always earned less money than me, at some point even living on welfare. I wouldn't choose my partner depending on his job or income, because I wouldn't want to be financially dependent on a man nor would I want him to be dependent on me. For this (and some other) reason(s) my boy-friend and I have never lived together.
So maybe you should stop measuring yourself by stupid goals that society or certain social circles set for you and instead develop your own set of values and start living by them. I think that somebody who does what he believes in is far more authentic and appealing than someone who tries to be someone he is not.

 

[ChildrensITV]

Maybe you should change with whom you surround yourself and/or what kind of media you consume? As a heterosexual female

OK. This was a thread for men to weight in and talk about our issues without judgment.

Any other men out there wanna weigh in?

 

[WorthlessTrash]

As a heterosexual female

With respect, this is a thread for "males" to discuss their issues and how they feel, not for people of the opposite sex to cast judgment here. Sure, you may not select your partner based on financial income, but that doesn't mean other women don't. A lot of women prefer stability, and that isn't being financially dependent on them. I tried to develop my own set of values and even had a great personality once upon a time, but that didn't really help me. You may be the exception to the rule, but you are not the rule to how women think.

 

[innominesatanas44]

Well…As long as I dont go outside or interact with anyone then I never have to think about how inferior I am!

But generally I don't care, I know I've always been a loser. That's just how it is. It's a waste of effort to try and compete with others, it's a game you're never gonna win. Someone will always be better than you. I just live in a cycle of ignorant bliss until something happens to make me remember my state of inferiority and makes me suicidal, then i go back to ignorance

 

[Mortalist]

As men, we're men to "man up", be assertive, dominant and successful. We are the sex that is supposed to "rescue" a woman and be the stable rock in her life. We are supposed to have our "shit together". Men who don't meet this yardstick are called losers. Men who don't have a career by a certain age are called "losers". "Valid" reasons for not dating a man include:

- he doesn't earn enough
- his job/he is low-value/-status
- he lives with his mum and dad
- he doesn't drive
- he isn't physically attractive/tall

The standard that we are held to - by everyone (by men (friends, coworkers) and women) - is tough if you can't even make it onto the first step. And cuz men are so competitive, you get a clear sense of when you are failing.

Are any other men out there actual scrubs, losers or low-value men (as determined by FemaleDatingStrategy) or by society in general? Do you have friends who boast about their career-ladder progression, their moving into a (new, bigger) home, their getting into a new relationship and how their lover adores their virility and success? It's part of why I want to CTB - because everything I've tried in life has resulted in failure. I am literally the loser that TV shows used to talk about when I was growing up.

Were you successful at one time and then lost it or were you always a loser?

I feel like my whole life has been watching other men (or people in general) move on through different life-stages, while I stay stagnant and trying in vein. I can't even bring myself to use Facebook anymore cuz it's full of people who have full lives, meanwhile my life is like a teenager's, in terms of achievement. In fact, probably behind them too. No matter what I try, I fail. It seems like there is only one way out of failing as a man, having poor mental health and being a fucking loser.

NOTE:

1. I don't want this to be a discussion about which sex has it worse. Women have their own struggles that are offtopic here. I just want to talk to men whose life is going nowhere and who are losers.
2. I don't want to get strawmanned into "a relationship isn't the be all end all". I am not talking about just relationships. I am talking about how men are measured in terms of success, and how men feel any sense of accomplishment.
3. I don't want anyone coming in here saying: "Men cannot discuss their problems! This makes me feel as if you are blaming others!". This is not to blame others. This isn't about you right now. This is about men not being able to achieve goals because of lack of intelligence, because of depression and anxiety, because of constant knockbacks, rejections and poor mental health.

To any men replying, please just focus on the on-topic posts and ignore anything off-topic

The people who seem to judge you like that are not worth your everything.
I can check some of the criteria you listed because I match their demands. But I guarantee you, it changes nothing. A-holes will still be a-holes, and I have never had any benefit in any way thanks to me being the way I am, compared to others.

And just for the record, "loser" is just a word. It is meaningless to me. I know my worth, if people come to realize that, they earned a place in my life. Many haven't, so they aren't anymore.
We might have to live by the standards of this cruel world, but all be dammed if I started to comply with this shit.

 

[BlackWednesday]

A big problem with male issues such as these is that we can't even talk about them without someone trying to shut the conversation down. For some reason women seem to get angry and deny the very real problems that men face in this day in age. The very first reponse in this thread is proof of that.

What I've come to understand is that as a man you shouldn't expect any sympathy. At the end of the day you're on your own.

 

[Fraggle77]

Isnt everyone's perception of a loser and a successful person different?

 

[Mortalist]

Isnt everyone's perception of a loser and a successful person different?

As an excuse to what exactly?

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Isnt everyone's perception of a loser and a successful person different?

I think if you're socially inept, jobless and living in your parents home off your parents, you cannot really be considered successful. It would objectively be the opposite.

 

[PoisonousPotato]

A big problem with male issues such as these is that we can't even talk about them without someone trying to shut the conversation down. For some reason women seem to get angry and deny the very real problems that men face in this day in age. The very first reponse in this thread is proof of that.

What I've come to understand is that as a man you shouldn't expect any sympathy. At the end of the day you're on your own.

i want to say (without agressivity) that yes, a lot of men are among the first victim of toxic masculinity and unrealistic standards. this is a real issue, causing a real suffering. i do not care whether it is worse for men or women, this is a problem that affect both, and a good reason to reject current social views of the ideal man and the ideal woman.

also, yeah, being ""ugly"" from the current societal point of view is a factor of loneliness. that sucks a lot, regardless of sexual orientation and gender. it needs to be changed.

but if you're speaking from the pov of a specific gender, you then take the risk of not understanding well the problems of other people. there may be specific problems among "ugly" men that aren't among "ugly" women. and the opposite is true. but you seem to juge the situation through the same model that says that you're worthless.

also, maybe women "get angry" when men are talking about their pov about this issue because those men say things about women that, from the pov of a woman, are obviously false.

i hope that message won't cause you anger, as my intent is not to create a conflict on a suicide forum.

 

[AerialBoundaries]

I don't label myself with any of those derogatory adjectives. If somebody else wants to, that's their prerogative as they're likely in a better position in life than I am, by societal standards. I'm a severely mentally ill individual. Being ill, doesn't make me a loser. It's in our nature to compare ourselves to others, but the grass isn't always greener on the other side. I don't look at people who are doing better than me and think to myself "I would swap lives with them".

I'm fortunate enough that I am at least average looking and have a decent level of independence, living alone. I'm extremely self conscious about my apperance, so I don't know if I'd still be here if I was wholly unattractive. I still get bad days when I think people are looking at me. I'm bereft of confidence.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

also, yeah, being ""ugly"" from the current societal point of view is a factor of loneliness. that sucks a lot, regardless of sexual orientation and gender. it needs to be changed.

How do you propose such a change? You cannot force people to be attracted to those they do not find attractive, nor compel them to. You cannot change biological instinct.

 

[BlackWednesday]

also, maybe women "get angry" when men are talking about their pov about this issue because those men say things about women that, from the pov of a woman, are obviously false.

And what did the OP say that is "obviously false"?

 

[PoisonousPotato]

How do you propose such a change? You cannot force people to be attracted to those they do not find attractive, nor compel them to. You cannot change biological instinct.

i don't think it has anything to do with biological instinct. if so, standards for aestetics wouldn't have changed in regard to gender, sexual orientation, culture, geographic location and time.

if you point the same appearance as beautiful, strong, elegant, admirable or another quality, people will associate the quality to the appearance.

if you show me all the actors in a hollywoodian film, i will be able to tell with a good accuracy who i'm supposed to identify to (see the "literally me" thing), who has the power, who is good and who is evil.

if you take a photo of a man wearing a industry worker outfit, and the same man in a ceo suit, you will be way more intimidated by the latter.

this has nothing to do with biology. you could have been born in another culture and be considered attractive. and to you, it would have felt "natural".

 

[Kundalini Guy]

It's one of the reason am CTB'ing. This whole rat race and being a "successful man" just feels like survival of the fittest but slightly changed to suit modern times.

 

[BlazingBob]

Physically and mentally disabled. Done. Out of game. Ctb to immediately follow the demise of my pets. Not every problem has a solution nor every story a happy ending, despite what the prolifer normies say. I don't even wish it were different. I just don't want to be here.

 

[BlackWednesday]

i don't think it has anything to do with biological instinct. if so, standards for aestetics wouldn't have changed in regard to gender, sexual orientation, culture, geographic location and time.

if you point the same appearance as beautiful, strong, elegant, admirable or another quality, people will associate the quality to the appearance.

if you show me all the actors in a hollywoodian film, i will be able to tell with a good accuracy who i'm supposed to identify to (see the "literally me" thing), who has the power, who is good and who is evil.

if you take a photo of a man wearing a industry worker outfit, and the same man in a ceo suit, you will be way more intimidated by the latter.

this has nothing to do with biology. you could have been born in another culture and be considered attractive. and to you, it would have felt "natural".

Total nonsense. Studies have shown that there is broad aggreement of beauty standards across races and cultures. The example you use is flawed. You can dress a worker in a suit and he might look better but an ugly man in a suit is still an ugly man. An attractive man in a worker's overalls is still attractive.

 

[PoisonousPotato]

And what did the OP say that is "obviously false"?

if you talk about men's problems, i personally agree with a lot of things. i just don't think those are inherently problems specific to men.

however in those kind of discussions there's always a point where some men begin to make suppositions about how "most women" think, or what they want, or who is in power, etc. i think that because this line is easily crossed, a lot of women expect to be disrespected, misunderstood or subject to stereotypes when people (men) begin to talk about involuntary celibate.

my point isn't to say that men's feelings aren't important, far from that. look, ik what it's like to be ugly, unattractive, etc. i'm just trying to explain that a lot of pb of men and women, while very different in nature and easily misunderstood by the opposite gender, can share a cause.

and again, feeling ugly sucks, being lonely sucks, and all people who experience those kind of things endure artificially made sufferings.

 

[ForeverLonely82]

I am a loser. No friends, family. Disabled because mental health is completely fucked. Going to be 41 in 3 days. Got nothing and going nowhere,no ambition, no drive. Yes, I am what you speak of.

 

[PoisonousPotato]

Total nonsense. Studies have shown that there is broad aggreement of beauty standards across races and cultures. The example you use is flawed. You can dress a worker in a suit and he might look better but an ugly man in a suit is still an ugly man. An attractive man in a worker's overalls is still attractive.

"studies have shown" what studies?
"broad agreement" can you be more exact?
"an ugly man is still an ugly man" in my example i wasn't talking about beauty, but about being impressive, that was a study i read but i don't care enough to find it. if you look at a worker in a mcdonalds and a ceo, you know immediatly who has the most power.

look, i don't have energy to invest in a political debate here, that's not why i joined a suicide forum. i'm sorry about your issues. if you think defending the very mindset that says you're worthless is good for you, then go ahead ig

 

[Hunter2005]

I always felt like a loser my whole life, not just compared to other guys my age, but people in general. Bad genes, dropping out of college and accumulating debt for no reason, being emotionally unstable, and just being too dysfunctional overall to even take care of myself properly.

Some of us just aren't meant for life here and that's me for sure. Once I CTB, I won't have to feel like a loser anymore because I will hopefully feel nothing.

Same this why I can't continue with life anymore because even if it gets better, I will still have suicide thoughts in the back of my mind.

 

[Final-push123]

In some ways yes and others no

In terms of career and money, I am doing ok for myself. I have enough to survive and do a fun thing once in awhile.

I have friends, I am pretty socialable I get along with most people.

Relationships? Big ol L for me.
At the time I didn't understand why I kept getting ghosted. I have a great personality (literally other people straight up told me I do), I am not needy or desperate, I have a career that going places, I have friends and hobbies and even dreams I working towards......

That shit doesn't matter, I am fat and ugly. No amount of personality or confidence will change that(technically fat can be changed but if you have shit genetics you will always look fat)

It's kinda like this. Think of a 70 yr old woman, they may be the coolest granny doing all sorts of cool things, a winning smile and lovely personality but she isn't sexy. Because she is old, it's not right it's not fair but it is what it is.

It the same thing for the sub chad men, our sexiness is not based on who we are but what we are. If we have one of the fatal attractiveness flaws(short, fat and or ugly). The man doesn't have a chance now a days

I found it best to make peace with my uglyness, avoid women as much as possible irl and live my life putting my heart and love into my dreams, passions and career.

At the end of the day that's all you have to rely on.

God speed fellow average and below men, I hope you all can live bitter sweet lives.

 

[BlackWednesday]

"studies have shown" what studies?
"broad agreement" can you be more exact?
"an ugly man is still an ugly man" in my example i wasn't talking about beauty, but about being impressive, that was a study i read but i don't care enough to find it. if you look at a worker in a mcdonalds and a ceo, you know immediatly who has the most power.

Studies such as this one: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099629

if you think defending the very mindset that says you're worthless is good for you, then go ahead ig

I don't even know what you're talking about here. I don't think you do either

 

[SexyIncél]

As men, we're men to "man up", be assertive, dominant and successful. We are the sex that is supposed to "rescue" a woman and be the stable rock in her life. We are supposed to have our "shit together". Men who don't meet this yardstick are called losers. Men who don't have a career by a certain age are called "losers". "Valid" reasons for not dating a man include:

- he doesn't earn enough
- his job/he is low-value/-status
- he lives with his mum and dad
- he doesn't drive
- he isn't physically attractive/tall

The standard that we are held to - by everyone (by men (friends, coworkers) and women) - is tough if you can't even make it onto the first step. And cuz men are so competitive, you get a clear sense of when you are failing.

Are any other men out there actual scrubs, losers or low-value men (as determined by FemaleDatingStrategy) or by society in general? Do you have friends who boast about their career-ladder progression, their moving into a (new, bigger) home, their getting into a new relationship and how their lover adores their virility and success? It's part of why I want to CTB - because everything I've tried in life has resulted in failure. I am literally the loser that TV shows used to talk about when I was growing up.

Were you successful at one time and then lost it or were you always a loser?

I feel like my whole life has been watching other men (or people in general) move on through different life-stages, while I stay stagnant and trying in vein. I can't even bring myself to use Facebook anymore cuz it's full of people who have full lives, meanwhile my life is like a teenager's, in terms of achievement. In fact, probably behind them too. No matter what I try, I fail. It seems like there is only one way out of failing as a man, having poor mental health and being a fucking loser.

NOTE:

1. I don't want this to be a discussion about which sex has it worse. Women have their own struggles that are offtopic here. I just want to talk to men whose life is going nowhere and who are losers.
2. I don't want to get strawmanned into "a relationship isn't the be all end all". I am not talking about just relationships. I am talking about how men are measured in terms of success, and how men feel any sense of accomplishment.
3. I don't want anyone coming in here saying: "Men cannot discuss their problems! This makes me feel as if you are blaming others!". This is not to blame others. This isn't about you right now. This is about men not being able to achieve goals because of lack of intelligence, because of depression and anxiety, because of constant knockbacks, rejections and poor mental health.

To any men replying, please just focus on the on-topic posts and ignore anything off-topic

This seems true, right now in many societies

If you don't have money, you don't comfortably travel. Then you don't get to meet enough people, or learn different perspectives, or be less of a bastard. If you have bad mental health, your cognition's destroyed. If your cognition's destroyed, the vast majority of romantic partners will abuse, dump and/or disrespect you. Same with jobs: abuse/fire/disrespect. Assuming you even get your foot in the door. And other men are cold or competitors

No matter if a man's winning today, he can lose tomorrow. Probably lost before in his life, and through luck and advantages escaped the Pit of Fail

Many men ctb as a result. It's like a bomb next to the brainstem. No matter if they're self-aware, or have therapists, or believe it's because of local patriarchy... the bomb still ticks

And no matter how insulting and offtopic people are on this thread, the mods probably won't do shit

 

[unplug]

You can get pretty far if you're good looking, even if you're dirt poor. But being a sub5, wage slaving, heh, gl boyo.

Clown world.