How do you justify eating meat?

[NaturalBornNEET]

I eat meat and don't justify myself at all, it's pretty amazing what a human can do when they move through life with minimal consciousness and care towards anything. Explains a lot of human history.

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

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[NaturalBornNEET]

[Hidden content]

It's interesting, this site has the highest concentration of vegans I've seen in any community. Must be hard to use the "but we neeeeed to eat and exploit animals to survive I'm literally a lion hear me roooaaar" bullshit when you can't even claim to want to live.

 

[Dejected 55]

I don't know why anyone has to justify eating meat OR not eating meat.

I do not like how horribly most corporate farms treat livestock, though. That's an easy one... I absolutely could not hunt and kill for food if I had to do so. In that scenario I would be a vegan by default. But I can accept that there are a lot of animals who would not even be here except for being bred as livestock. I just wish we had more farms where the animals had a good life before they were killed for food. I don't think their lives have to be horrible the whole way through.

I grant you, that probably says something about me... that I can justify eating meat as long as I don't see or kill it. I have to live with that. Truth to tell, I don't eat a lot of beef really. I eat zero fish. I do like chicken and turkey, those are the hardest for me to give up. I was vegan for a while after my heart attack and have stayed mostly off red meats since then... but chicken and turkey are back on the menu... though there are many good vegan substitutes now that taste great.

I wish they would progress more on the labs that are trying to just grow meat, without the animal... I think if they could get there, we could have our cake and eat it too... in that we could have actual beef, not substitute, without abusing any animals to get there.

Meanwhile, there are vegans and vegetarians who are too self-righteous and inconsistent... they have pets, and even if they treat their pets well, the pets are still not truly free, right? And we mostly got rid of circus performing animals and that horribleness, but we still have zoos... so we aren't perfect in many areas.

There are still experiments on animals too. While I don't love it, you can more easily justify testing medical things on animals than you can cosmetics. Fuck your perfume or cologne or lipstick needing to be tested on animals... but I'll begrudgingly understand some measure of medical testing that has produced results.

I'm a bit hypocritical... I get it. I don't sugarcoat it. I own my inconsistencies.

 

[NaturalBornNEET]

I don't know why anyone has to justify eating meat OR not eating meat.

I do not like how horribly most corporate farms treat livestock, though. That's an easy one... I absolutely could not hunt and kill for food if I had to do so. In that scenario I would be a vegan by default. But I can accept that there are a lot of animals who would not even be here except for being bred as livestock. I just wish we had more farms where the animals had a good life before they were killed for food. I don't think their lives have to be horrible the whole way through.

I grant you, that probably says something about me... that I can justify eating meat as long as I don't see or kill it. I have to live with that. Truth to tell, I don't eat a lot of beef really. I eat zero fish. I do like chicken and turkey, those are the hardest for me to give up. I was vegan for a while after my heart attack and have stayed mostly off red meats since then... but chicken and turkey are back on the menu... though there are many good vegan substitutes now that taste great.

I don't think it says anything about you if what you're implying is you're bad for it (that would make literally everything evil because we all have to manipulate our environment to survive as ourselves, basic metabolism. It comes down to a lack of caring/awareness in the exact moment you do the deed.

For most people they associate the food on their plate with cherished memories, love and fulfillment, all that is very real if that's how you perceive it, but there's always deeper levels happening, and yes when you analyse the source of all nice things in life they mostly always lead to a sacrifice or exploit of some sort.

I'm a bit hypocritical... I get it. I don't sugarcoat it. I own my inconsistencies.

As it goes, to claim you aren't hypocritical would be hypocritical. And inconsistency is how life moves, and contradictions are the building blocks.

 

[lainpilled]

I'm Native American and our own personal beliefs as well as what we practiced before the colonization of America was that we tended the the animals and plant life and earth and they tended us back. When we hunted, we would use the whole animal such as using the hide and *all* of the meat (not just the "desirable" bits) and we would harvest what we needed, making sure to leave enough so that the plants could grow back and that the animals could live and repopulate. It's beliefs that we still do today when we hunt and when forage, but it's obviously nothing that's practiced widely in the agricultural industry which is upsetting.

 

[Arlowantsushi]

I have been vegetarian for about 5 or 6 years and just recently had to start eating chicken once a week due to deficiencies that are causing me bad health problems.

I hate it and feel like a terrible person every time but my body doesn't absorb supplements properly so its my only affordable choice.

 

[SuicidalCurryBoy]

I don't.
It's wrong.
I'll deal with consequences as they come.

 

[woofwag]

Because me as one person not eating meat is not going to stop the meat industry from cranking out mass-produced slaughtering. Even if a significant portion of people stopped eating meat, the government would just subsidize it and do whatever they can to propagandize the fuck out of it i.e. the cheese caves lol.

Also you can't live without causing some level of harm. Everything is alive, mushrooms talk, trees and plants talk, everything wants to live, we have zero conception of the reality of how alive everything around us truly is. I'd eat a human if I knew it was sourced ethically. I'd eat fuckin roadkill, I really don't care. I still very much care about animal rights and consider myself a true animal lover (ALL animals, not just the fuzzy cute ones) but have accepted that I'm a carnivore at heart and me not eating meat isn't going to affect much of anything. Also, yummy!

 

[darksouls]

the majority of the commercial exploitation of animals is financed by taxpayers,
that is why I have not brought children into this sick world,
because I dont want to support that

 

[sshine]

Human life matters more than anything else right now. It's hard to care about animal suffering when so many people struggle just to survive. To me loving animals feels like a coping mechanism and the wrong priorities. Many would choose to save their pet over another person.

 

[darksouls]

every life matters, no living being deserves to suffer

 

[NaturalBornNEET]

Human life matters more than anything else right now. It's hard to care about animal suffering when so many people struggle just to survive. To me loving animals feels like a coping mechanism and the wrong priorities. Many would choose to save their pet over another person.

I agree that human wellbeing takes precedence over animals' right to life, not in theory though, just in practice. Considering 99% of us operate on that subconscious premise. Isn't it convenient though that we just happen to be humans in this universe that totally has it written in stone somewhere that humans are the most important and special and amazing people and we deserve everything?

 

[Dejected 55]

Human life matters more than anything else right now. It's hard to care about animal suffering when so many people struggle just to survive. To me loving animals feels like a coping mechanism and the wrong priorities. Many would choose to save their pet over another person.

It doesn't have to be a choice, though. You can care about multiple things at the same time. If you're faced with the "trolley example" and had to immediately choose between running over a deer and running over a human child... then, yeah, you have to choose then... but most of the time it's not an either us or the other animals situation. We kind of go out of our way sometimes to fuck over the environment and animals when we don't need to do so.

 

[gottacheckout]

every life matters, no living being deserves to suffer

Good morning darksouls

When I was young my uncle imported some longhorns from Texas. Shortly after I got a tick, we removed it and nobody thought much about it but a month out so later we had steak for dinner. I ended up that night in the emergency room and had a hospital stay. Days later I was better and got released. I was on easy to digest foods for a week. I had pork chops and ended up in the ER again, same symptoms. After the next time with the same results they did some tests and came up with myself having a problem with saturated fats. Oddly enough I could eat fish or poultry with no problems. Just a few years ago my riding partner was talking to a professor at the veterinary school and they came up with Alpha Gal syndrome. I met with the professor and talked with them for some time and my symptoms matched the results. Back when I first came down with it their diagnosis was wrong because it was very rare to find Texas cattle where I lived. Turns out that it had nothing to do with saturated fats, it was caused by a protein that is exclusive to mammal meat.

 

[sshine]

I agree that human wellbeing takes precedence over animals' right to life, not in theory though, just in practice. Considering 99% of us operate on that subconscious premise. Isn't it convenient though that we just happen to be humans in this universe that totally has it written in stone somewhere that humans are the most important and special and amazing people and we deserve everything?

Is there another species equal to us? It feels odd to say it is convenient to be human and still ignore what that means. I also think it is far from ninety‑nine percent. Many people feel uneasy when they eat meat, adopt a vegan or vegetarian diet, or give priority to their pets instead of strangers.

It doesn't have to be a choice, though. You can care about multiple things at the same time. If you're faced with the "trolley example" and had to immediately choose between running over a deer and running over a human child... then, yeah, you have to choose then... but most of the time it's not an either us or the other animals situation. We kind of go out of our way sometimes to fuck over the environment and animals when we don't need to do so.

For many it's a choice. Our focus is limited, so caring too much about animal morals can hurt human welfare. Damaging the environment or animals only matters when it affects our survival, and things like sadism or psychopathy.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'm vegetarian. I justify not going full vegan because I'm pretty sure my health would start to suffer more. Which of course- would be my fault- being lazy about making properly balanced meals. Maybe if I could be a lazy vegan, I'd take that step.

I try to buy eggs from organic farms- which have more natural conditions to 'free range' egg farms. The conditions there can still be appalling. But truthfully, I'm sure there are still areas I slip up on and contribute to animal misery/ cruelty. I'm not too careful about milk for example.

As to why we do it though. It's normalised I suppose. When the majority of people act in a certain way, even if it's morally questionable- we tend to feel more comfortable doing it.

Whether it's morally questionable to eat meat is debatable. I'd say it isn't exactly. We are omnivours after all. Still- eating factory farmed meats, industrially fished or fish farmed produce. Plus- simply not even knowing what kind of conditions it lived and was killed under is surely morally questionable. Seeing as we absolutely know cruelty does go on.

A former work colleague of mine was Hindu. She would only eat an animal if she had killed it herself and could therefore be sure that it suffered as least as possible. I liked that idea. It felt more honest.

But, we're encouraged from a young age (mostly) to simply accept that we consume other animals and to not think too carefully about where it comes from and how it lived/ was killed. It's even sugar coated that we are eating an animal. We eat so much processed meat compacted into non animal looking shapes. They often remove the parts- the heads for example- that make us think more that this was a living being.

That goes for other products too. It's normalised to expect to buy electronics or cheap clothes. Yet, their manufacture and eventual disposal creates huge damage to the environment and to human rights.

When we enjoy sonething enough, we're very good at ignoring the harm we may even know it's doing. Again- because the majority is doing it- perhaps. Because advertisements and our governments hide that side of it (obviously.) Plus- we use logic to defend ourselves. What difference will it make if I stop consuming this harmful product- when millions of others won't? Why should I go without? Ultimately- we're a selfish species. We may also feel like our lives are also difficult. So- don't we deserve that pick-me-up? All the adverts are telling us we deserve that thing.

I'm not sure about now so much but, it's even mocked sometimes to be vegetarian or vegan I've found. Like I'm deliberately taking the high ground- when I haven't even mentioned it!

I don't personally agree with trying to shame people into doing it. It's a whole lifestyle change after all. I think to make such a big, sustainable change- the decision needs to come from them.

 

[darksouls]

Good morning darksouls

When I was young my uncle imported some longhorns from Texas. Shortly after I got a tick, we removed it and nobody thought much about it but a month out so later we had steak for dinner. I ended up that night in the emergency room and had a hospital stay. Days later I was better and got released. I was on easy to digest foods for a week. I had pork chops and ended up in the ER again, same symptoms. After the next time with the same results they did some tests and came up with myself having a problem with saturated fats. Oddly enough I could eat fish or poultry with no problems. Just a few years ago my riding partner was talking to a professor at the veterinary school and they came up with Alpha Gal syndrome. I met with the professor and talked with them for some time and my symptoms matched the results. Back when I first came down with it their diagnosis was wrong because it was very rare to find Texas cattle where I lived. Turns out that it had nothing to do with saturated fats, it was caused by a protein that is exclusive to mammal meat.

good morning

 

[Arvayn]

I don't justify it, because I think the whole debate is stupid, and has nothing to do with me anyway. I view both people who advocate for eating meat and people who advocate against it as being hypocritical and idealistic respectively.

Spoiler: Explanation

Most meat eating advocates are hypocritical, because they are selective in their care for animals and it's really just a matter of their cultural upbringing telling them which animals are friends and which animals are food, which sabotages their stance and gives credence to vegans and vegetarians arguing for the value of animal consciousness. They don't want to accept that they simply just don't care for animals, which undermines them, because deep down, some part of them recognizes that they're doing something they consider is wrong and immoral. If you want to be consistent, pick a side: Either you care about animals, or you don't and you only care about animals that are personally relevant to you (AKA: you don't care about animals).

Now, the other side is harder to take down, but I do still take problem with it, and as I said, I see it as idealistic. What they argue for, the reduction of animal suffering and the value of non-anthropic intelligent consciousness, is in itself rooted in human empathic biases and modes of thought, making it an anthropocentric ideology that is only morally valid within human frameworks of consciousness, which is widely recognized by the vegan/vegetarian communities, thus positing human moral authority, which is a form of superiority. Animal ethicists would be inclined to agree with me that humans are not uniquely superior, but their beliefs subtly indicate otherwise for this reason; they are privileging humans as moral legislators. Opponents of animal cruelty often assume that for an act to be morally considerable, it doesn't require moral agency, but that's absolutely not a guaranteed given; they're also very selective with it once again, where they say that humans are morally responsible due to their possession of agency, but the actions of animals cannot be morally advocated or condemned due to their lack of agency; once again, neither of this is a given, and one cannot really make a sound justifying argument for it.
On a different note, they will never be able to achieve their goal, nor will it cause any large-scale meaningful change. Suffering is not only inevitable, but even believing in a just world is quite literally a fallacy. Our values are constructed and our empathy is selective; to attempt to universalize it is likewise not possible. Moral universalism and normative authority is bullshit. But to put it simply, I just see it as chasing a carrot on a stick, and something that believers of virtue ethics and moral responsibility do to ease their own conscience. If that makes people feel good about themselves and gives them relief, more power to them, but I do not believe in such norms.

I care about the creatures that I have an emotional attachment to, human or otherwise. I am neutral to everything else, or even hostile if the situation calls for it. I do not feel any guilt or remorse over it.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

Human life matters more than anything else right now. It's hard to care about animal suffering when so many people struggle just to survive. To me loving animals feels like a coping mechanism and the wrong priorities. Many would choose to save their pet over another person.

I've always felt like this. I do love animals, but animals eat animals. We are animals. Animals also do a lot of stuff we don't do, yes, but on the reverse side we also do a lot of stuff that animals don't do, like organised war, which I consider (unfortunately) an aspect of human nature and existence (which is why I have some amount of disdain for humanity altogether).

Also, meat is an integral part of the culture of my family and background. Finally, it can often be delicious and healthy. I mostly eat chicken and fish.