Discussion Has anyone taken Mirtazapine before?

[Cathy Ames]

Yes 7,5 mg for sleep. It is also good antidepressant.

@Sunset Limited has your insomnia situation improved?

 

[Ethereal Knight]

wow. two people on the same thread saying that mirtazapina caused anger, rage and/or homicidal thoughts.

I've never heard of this before. wow.

is this listed on the possible side effects of the medication? people should know this kind of serious side effect.

Yes it was terrible I had vivid dreams,anger rage and suicidal. I wanted to really kill people.i had to come off it asap or some damage would be done. It was worst drug I ever took I felt the devil took hold of me but i am very sensitive to meds so had massive effect.
Everyone is different though.

Just a lil update if anyone cares to read.
I had an incredibly amount of anger and rage while I was on Mirtazapine and worrying homicidal thoughts too.

I ended up going to A&E for my self harm and they agreed that it wasn't working for me. Now I'm back on Sertraline (been a few years) and Promethazine & Circadin for sleep. They had me on Zopiclone but on my last week of it unfortunately. Zopiclone helped so much but I know about the dependancy stuff.

Somewhat in a better place now.

 

[whatevs]

I had a very negative reaction to this which consisted of a raspy/sore throat for several days.

 

[Sarz]

I swear this drug made Robin Williams kill himself people put suicide down to depression a lot of the times but I'm sure it's anti depressants that can trigger this..its amazing how I've been on anti depressants for years and in those years I've never felt so bad as I do now.
There is a black box warning with certain brands which should be made more known.
I'm stuck on duloxetine will never get off them.

 

[Julgran]

wow. two people on the same thread saying that mirtazapina caused anger, rage and/or homicidal thoughts.

I've never heard of this before. wow.

is this listed on the possible side effects of the medication? people should know this kind of serious side effect.

It could be that Mirtazapine is just a multiplier - meaning that it will exacerbate pre-existing traits in the patient - rather than causing precise reactions.

I have been using Mirtazapine for over a year now and have never had aggressive feelings. The only downside that I got was when I tried to quit using it for a couple of days - then I overslept both days and woke up at 10 AM, which means that I was 2 hours late for work.

 

[Sunset Limited]

@Sunset Limited has your insomnia situation improved?

Yes it is working. Sometimes I wake up after 4-5 hours and continue to sleep with an additional 3.5mg dose. It is also a good antidepressant.

 

[Cathy Ames]

Yes it is working. Sometimes I wake up after 4-5 hours and continue to sleep with an additional 3.5mg dose. It is also a good antidepressant.

That's great!

 

[HopefulButPrepared]

thanks for the diphenhydramine tip.

sounds like a good plan, except for the fact that I have bad genetics for obesity, I know I'd gain fat on the neck ("double chin", exactly like Nikocado Avocado) which would cause sleep apnea, which would cause me to have poor sleep quality, which would cause me to feel terrible the next day. so my sleep medication would contribute to worsening my sleep, as ironic as it sounds. but it's true.

off-topic about diets inside the spoiler:

Spoiler

there are things about drugs that haven't even been studied!

I remember when I did the carnivore (zero carb) diet while taking amitriptyline, the drug stopped working and the side effects also disappeared.

then when I reintroduced carbohydrates, the drug started to work again, but the side effects also came back.

up until this day, I have no idea what was happening there.

maybe the gut microbiome changes induced by the diet were favoring microbes that are "amitriptyline-eaters" and they were eating my drug (yes, that's possible).

maybe the higher lipid concentrations on the blood (given that I was using fat as my main energy source 24/7, as I was eating zero carbohydrates) reduced the serum level of amitriptyline (sometimes doctors inject lipids in patients who had an amitriptyline overdose, to reduce the level of the drug).

maybe the diet up-regulated liver enzymes that also break down amitriptyline, so I was metabolizing the drug faster.

I don't know what it was. but whatever it was, was very a curious and peculiar experience.

I'm sorry! I understand that feeling. I've been on anti-cholinergics for almost half of my life now (I'm 28) and I was gonna continue using them for my chronic terminal insomnia… I'm lucky that I'm gonna die by suicide in the next couple of years, because otherwise I'd become an old guy with dementia when I reached my senior years, 30+ years from now. I could predict thay not only because of the anti-cholinergic use, but also because of chronic sleep deprivation, insulin resistance, high refined sugar consumption, untreated ADD, untreated depression, chronic social isolation, unemployment and lack of education – all of which are risk factors for dementia (I have them all!)

I still take them, Xanax one night, then diphenhydramine and valium the next, and Oxy every day, I'm a comlete mess, I just wish it was easier to die - I have a 130ft church onto concrete that would likely work, but the risk of vegetation scares me so bad

 

[Sunset Limited]

That's great!

Thanks. Still not real sleep. I haven't had a real sleep in 10 years. I've tried everything, except the benzos. I never use benzos. Depression and having a bad life. The secret of true sleep is happiness and a harmless life. Unless it's a disease like sleep apnea. I also take 300mcg of melatonin along with mirtazapine. A bad sleep is still better than a lack of sleep :)

 

[Tortured Existence]

I take half of a 7.5mg tablet 2 or 3 times a week with my other sleeping medication. Sometimes I sleep through the whole night, other times it's like I didn't take it at all.


Per my psych:
Low dose like I'm prescribed is used for sleep. Much higher than that, it doesn't work for sleep but can be an excellent antidepressant.

The problem is that it doesn't just increase your appetite, it also slows your metabolism.

I really hope it works for you xx

 

[Ethereal Knight]

It could be that Mirtazapine is just a multiplier - meaning that it will exacerbate pre-existing traits in the patient - rather than causing precise reactions.

I have been using Mirtazapine for over a year now and have never had aggressive feelings. The only downside that I got was when I tried to quit using it for a couple of days - then I overslept both days and woke up at 10 AM, which means that I was 2 hours late for work.

I heard a doctor saying that, before prescribing this drug, the prescriber has to rule out other problems like "mixed states" (which means simultaneous mania and depression) and "bipolar disorder", because in these cases mirtazapine is counter-indicated, as it can trigger manic episodes.

other thing that can happen is withdrawn-induced mania, which is when people stop the medication suddenly and then develop mania or hypomania, like happened to the following guy: [link], who by the way, died.

I don't know if any of this is related or not to people's reports of rage/anger and homicidal thoughts, though.

 

[Julgran]

I heard a doctor saying that, before prescribing this drug, the prescriber has to rule out other problems like "mixed states" (which means simultaneous mania and depression) and "bipolar disorder", because in these cases mirtazapine is counter-indicated, as it can trigger manic episodes.

other thing that can happen is withdrawn-induced mania, which is when people stop the medication suddenly and then develop mania or hypomania, like happened to the following guy: [link], who by the way, died.

I don't know if any of this is related or not to people's reports of rage/anger and homicidal thoughts, though.

Thank you for the explanation! It certainly sounds plausible

 

[HopefulButPrepared]

Yes it is working. Sometimes I wake up after 4-5 hours and continue to sleep with an additional 3.5mg dose. It is also a good antidepressant.

take diphenhydramine with it - you will probably sleep for 12 hours - it reacts with it real nice for sleep, actually both similar drugs, histamine 1 blockers

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[J007]

I've been on Mirtazapine for last 14 months. No weight gain, no appetite, sleepless nights regardless the dose. But GP apparently has sort of perks due to promoting such a medication. Being honest I feel good for half of a day then all of sudden my mood drops down and I'm about to ctb. Nobody cares whether it works or not.

 

[Ethereal Knight]

take diphenhydramine with it - you will probably sleep for 12 hours - it reacts with it real nice for sleep, actually both similar drugs, histamine 1 blockers

I never took this combination, but I can imagine it could perhaps make people's cognition a little bit worse in the next day, as both have anti-cholinergic and sedative properties.

people who need to study, read, think, learn, make decisions or compete in sports, may see a decrease in their performance with this combination, I guess.

just a guess, though.

although I used to take promethazine, which is fairly similar to diphenhydramine, and it made me quite "different" the next day.

o gods, o stars, I wish I could treat my terminal insomnia with drugs like trazodone, which don't make me gain body fat, don't affect my cognition and don't increase my dementia risk (may even decrease this risk)... but I can't. trazodone didn't work for me when I tried.

 

[HopefulButPrepared]

I never took this combination, but I can imagine it could perhaps make people's cognition a little bit worse in the next day, as both have anti-cholinergic and sedative properties.

people who need to study, read, think, learn, make decisions or compete in sports, may see a decrease in their performance with this combination, I guess.

just a guess, though.

although I used to take promethazine, which is fairly similar to diphenhydramine, and it made me quite "different" the next day.

o gods, o stars, I wish I could treat my terminal insomnia with drugs like trazodone, which don't make me gain body fat, don't affect my cognition and don't increase my dementia risk (may even decrease this risk)... but I can't. trazodone didn't work for me when I tried.

im literally looking at it from a perspective of someone who plans to die soon, but would like some sleep in the mean time

i ruined my life trying to treat insomnia with medication

here's my advice, from someone who fucked things up really badly...

get lean, low bodyfat, you sleep better when you're not hot - don't eat sugar as it makes you hot, don't drink alcohol, don't smoke, don't do drugs - they all fuck with metabolism and body temperature and sleep cycles - exercise, weight train, get some muscles to keep the fat off - try to achieve something really meaningful, so you go to bed every night really pleased with how your life is going and really proud of yourself - don't chase money or some status job you won't feel proud of - you have to feel pleased and proud and excited about the direction of your life in order to relax and sleep well with no anxiety - if you live with people who keep you awake or wake you up early, get away from them - if you can save up and get a mortgage on a small place where you'll be able to sleep, do it, or move to a cheaper area where the rent is cheaper so you can live in a house rather than an apartment, just do it - apartments and insomnia don't mix well - fix the sleep problem with positive life goals you genuinely desire - don't do anything stressful that you don't really want to do - ignore anyone who says 'don't put all your eggs in one basket' - if you have something you love, put all your eggs in that basket, that's the best way to a good night's sleep, in my opinion, so that you love your life, and you're not lying there stressing about shit you don't even want to do

 

[Ethereal Knight]

im literally looking at it from a perspective of someone who plans to die soon, but would like some sleep in the mean time

i ruined my life trying to treat insomnia with medication

here's my advice, from someone who fucked things up really badly...

get lean, low bodyfat, you sleep better when you're not hot - exercise, weight train, get some muscles to keep the fat off - try to achieve something really meaningful, so you go to bed every night really pleased with how your life is going and really proud of yourself - don't chase money or some status job you won't feel proud of - you have to feel pleased and proud and excited about the direction of your life in order to relax and sleep well with no anxiety - if you live with people who keep you awake or wake you up early, get away from them - if you can save up and get a mortgage on a small place where you'll be able to sleep, do it, or move to a cheaper area where the rent is cheaper so you can live in a house rather than an apartment, just do it - apartments and insomnia don't mix well - fix the sleep problem with positive life goals you genuinely desire - don't do anything stressful that you don't really want to do - ignore anyone who says 'don't put all your eggs in one basket' - if you have something you love, put all your eggs in that basket, that's the best way to a good night's sleep, in my opinion, so that you love you life, and you're not lying there stressing about shit you don't even want to do

wow. that was an amazing answer!

I love what you said about putting all your eggs in one basket. people are so different. my passion is not gonna be the same as other people's. what moves my heart is something unique. and if you don't pay attention, people are gonna make you live your life for them, for their interests etc.

I also heard something similar from a brazilian doctor (link is on portuguese). when you live a life that you're pround of and that gives you excitement, you really tend to sleep better and look foward to the next day with joy.

when you don't like the way things are going, it's better to change and be in a life that you really feel joy in living. don't be unhappy for too long, be brave enough to change some things when necessary.

I also empathise with relying on sleep drugs. I probably can't be sober anymore. there are about 10 things in my life that are better thanks for the fact that I use amitriptyline, but there are other 10 things that are worse. these drugs are always about trades. there's a cost to benefit ratio which is very trickie to calculate.

last time I tried to stay sober, I ended up sleeping about 6 hours a night every single day, and pulling my bed-time progressively earlier due to tiredness, up to a point where I was sleeping almost 10 PM and waking up at 4 AM. if I slept at 9 PM, I'd wake up 3 AM. there was me, seeing the morning star (Venus) while the whole city was still sleeping. and I became also very anxious. amitriptyline makes me serene. but this judgment I made may be unfair, because I probably didn't give enough time for me to surpass the "post-acute withdrawn syndrome" (I'm not talking about withdrawn syndrome. this one is different. we never know how long it can last, may last for years.)

my dog loved my sober period, though. being free from amitriptyline's sedation, fatique, tiredness, sweating and light sensitivity, I was able to walk with her way more and be overall way more active.

but I had to go back to take drugs again. at some point I was just too tired due to under-sleeping, and my mind in a constant "rush" - I lacked serenity and peace of mind. 'cause when I was just a little bit more sad, 6 hours turned into 5 hours or even less.

I had plans on building muscle, like you said, but my complete hormonal mess, of simultaneous high cortisol and low testosterone, due to sleep deprivation, made that literally impossible.

the quote "Your drug may be your problem" made sense so many times in my life (there's a book with that name, by Peter Breggin). these weird antidepressants so often make us worse, without we even realizing it. it's very dangerous. my advice for anyone who never touched psychiatric drugs and is thinking about trying because of anxiety/depression/insomnia: don't. if you have schizophrenia, psychosis, hallucinations etc, then medications are life-saving. but these more milder conditions could benefit from more holistic approach.


on aloneness:
...there was a time when I had a girlfriend and she slept in the same bed as me a couple of times a week; every time that happened, I had a great night of sleep. I don't know why, but I think I felt way more safe.

(having C-PTSD due to being raised by a narcissist, safety is a important word for me)

I highly suspect that living life alone hurts me more than I can consciously realize. I've seen how great I feel when I'm in a big group of acquaintances/friends. I like being around a lot of people. I think my genetics expect me to be in a tribe. that may sound obvious considering our paleolithic past, but I think that quality is quite exacerbated in me. maybe my serotonin, cortisol etc get screwed because of deficiency of social connection, way more than because of a "deficiency of drug".

our modern day nuclear families are so different from what our ancesters lived before agriculture was invented, roughly 10.000 years ago. we now have a loneliness epidemic, which was a huge and depressing shift.

 

[Cathy Ames]

Thanks. Still not real sleep. I haven't had a real sleep in 10 years. I've tried everything, except the benzos. I never use benzos. Depression and having a bad life. The secret of true sleep is happiness and a harmless life. Unless it's a disease like sleep apnea. I also take 300mcg of melatonin along with mirtazapine. A bad sleep is still better than a lack of sleep :)

Oh. I am so sorry. I misunderstood. Yes, restful sleep is definitely the true secret for having better days. I thought maybe you'd found a way to get some of that... it's like the Holy Grail for some of us.