Gonne use this site less. Tired of pro-death youngsters' hassle

[RainAndSadness]

"Mask-off moment"? Is this like when you said l was "no better than the fixers"? If so, this is exactly the snidey, playground crap I'm describing. I mean, is this place now all about sniffing around to find whose opinions tally with those in the in-club?

Still pointing out how I say certain things, while ignoring what I say. Because what I said doesn't actually matter, that's funny. Just say you don't want to discuss the problem and all the arguments I brought forward before and instead have a mud fight. I'll go to bed now. There is simply no point. You're clearly not interested in a discussion and you're beating around the bush, not even addressing a tenth of my arguments and focusing on singular words. Cool!

 

[Chinaski]

Cool, goodnight, my observations remain unchanged but thanks for engaging.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Always a pleasure!

 

[SamTam33]

I've seen thread titles and posts where members specifically ask for someone to change their mind. Or maybe they close their post with a question about their methods, reasons, etc.

I think advice should be reserved for those instances.

But because this is the internet and it's a place ripe for individuals to give unsolicited advice - that line gets crossed too often.

It's like being on a forum dedicated to growing roses and one or two people keep suggesting you grow daisies.

They could just hang out in the section dedicated to all flowers. But no, they wanna be in the main forum with their daisy-growing tips. (Why?)

They think that because they sometimes provide tips about roses - this means they should also be able to talk about daisies.

I see this tactic in real life as well: people want to change the dynamics of a group so it will fit with what they need it to be.

Ultimately, it shouldn't be that hard to understand why a forum about suicide isn't keen on people trying to "help" members with unsolicited advice about why they should live.

 

[Anon1337]

I'm a young adult and have had many therapists, spent thousands trying to recover. You have no idea. I've been on this forum for 4 years and I'm still in the same position.

 

[Anonymus]

From what I read it is clear that I have taken the rules out of context or have interpreted them incorrectly (either because of my ignorance or because of a bad translation into my language), I just want to be clarified in the context in which I have to interpret them:
//
Pel que llegeixo es evident que he tret fora de context les normes o les he interpretat malament (sigui per maleptesa meva o per una mala traducció al meu idioma), només vull que se m'aclareixi el context en que les he d'interpretar:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/help/terms/

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/rules-and-faq.4/

Perhaps it should be more strict when the suicidal content in other sections of the web? In any case, it would also be good to remind users that they can choose not to see the suicide forum, and perhaps focus on helping only those who voluntarily access Recovery?. But this should be explained well because sometimes there are people in the suicide area who just want to vent and seek understanding and empathy, not commit suicide.
//
Potser caldría ser més estricte en quan el contingut suïcida en d'altres apartats del web? En tot cas també fora bó recordar als usuaris que poden triar no veure el fòrum de suïcidis, i potser centrarse en ajudar només els que voluntariament accedeixin a Recuperació?. Però això s'hauria d'explicar bé ja que de vegades hi ha gent a l'àrea de suïcidi que només vol desfogar-se i cercar comprenssió i empatía, no pas suïcidar-se.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/account/preferences

Everything should be much clearer for everyone..
//
Tot hauria de quedar bastant mes clar per tohom..


En mi caso particular os doy permiso para que me ayudéis cuando esté bien hundido (aunque esté en el apartado suïcida), pues no hay nada que me haga más ilusión que las cosas mejoren en mi vida para pasar del CTB como de la mierda (aunque se que tengo muy pocas opciones, siendo optimista, de salir adelante).**
//
En el meu cas particular us dono permís per ajudar-me quan estigui ben enfonsat (encara que sigui al fòrum suïcida), doncs no hi ha res que em faci més il·lusió com que les coses millorin a la meva vida per passar del CTB com de la merda (tot i que se que ho tinc magre, sent optimista, per sortir endavant).**

** I have not translated it because I have not found any web translator that does it well, neither Bing, Google nor DeepL. Every time I made the conversion to Spanish or Catalan of the English translation, I did not understand what I wanted to say or it changed the meaning of the sentence.
//
** No ho he traduït perqué no he trobat cap traductor web que ho faci bé, ni Bing, ni Google ni DeepL. Cada cop que feia la conversió al castellà o català de la traducció anglesa no s'entenía el que volía dir o li canviava el sentit de la frase.

 

[hamvil]

@jodes2 I do agree with most of your post. I do see often posts from young members of this forum with problems that are clearly temporary and that will probably pass in time. I am not referring to people with chronic conditions but to people claiming they want to CTB for a seriously silly reason. I will not give example because it would be a partial list and will only trigger the source. Even in case of serious conditions, the will to CTB should also be counterbalanced by a sufficient time to process and mature the decision. This means that yes given the permanent nature of CTB it is fair to ask a person to give it a try a wait a sufficient amount of time especially if the reasons reported are clearly not so serious. This is not being a pro-lifer, this is purely a reality check.

I'm a young adult and have had many therapists, spent thousands trying to recover. You have no idea. I've been on this forum for 4 years and I'm still in the same position.

really sorry to read about your situation, hope this can pass with time and if not that you can find the peace you are looking for.

 

[Pluto]

I hope the current phase of name-calling passes, as no particular stance will be appropriate for every situation.

Wishing for everyone to recover and thrive is honorable, but unfortunately some situations are not very workable in practice. Some people want to feel less alone through a sense of camaraderie with others in a similarly despondent position, or just need to scream into the void. Some have even made a final decision and want a supportive deathbed gathering. All of these groups will find a narrative of forced optimism irksome.

Supporting end-of-life choice for adults is also noble, leading to a nice simple ideological stance. However, some people come here in the throes of suicidal desperation over a specific situation that they are confused and frustrated by. Their cry for help often includes a story of interpersonal abuse and being brainwashed into feeling a sense of blame. Due to their heightened emotional state and their lack of intellectual understanding of what has been done to them, they are not in a position to rationally assess their options. These are the ones who are overjoyed to be steered towards recovery despite posting in the suicide forum.

And, of course, there is a vast grey area between these extremes, setting us up to fail but bringing legitimacy to our varied perspectives. I've been suicidal for 25 years and can't even say which category I fit into with 100% clarity. So, as long as these main boundaries are respected, (the need for supportiveness in all cases, and the need to encourage informed/rational decision-making in select instances) we are all acting in good faith and there is no need for conflict.

 

[Mr_House]

Alright folks, nothing to see here… move along now​

 

[Someone123]

This site has been overrun with dominating pro-death youngsters' that have no concept of reasonableness, no concept of what recovery takes, or why trying is so important. Some pro-death idiots on here (no names, I'm not a total asshole unlike some) think it's not ok to offer people that post in the suicide section hope if recovery, hope of a good life. Well I have news for those morons. It is ok. This is a pro-choice forum, not a pro-death forum. That, plus laws of our countries, means we have a responsibility to offer hope to people, no matter where they post, unless it's clear they don't want hope offered. But that's rare.

If someone posts in the suicide section, that means the topic is suicide related. Not that they don't want hope offered! I'm sick of pro-death kids here giving me attitude. They can keep their miserable attitudes to themselves. I get PLENTY of thanks for my positivity, proving I'm doing the right thing. But there are always some bad apples, and they really bring me down and ruin my day.

I'm tempted to stop trying to help on this forum, and go elsewhere like Reddit, where the bad apples are fewer. This site has attracted some total scumbags that are asking for prison if they ever get doxxed. It's bad enough I give death tips, which I might stop doing, since it's punishable, and I don't get as many thanks for anyway. Which just leaves the games section for me to retreat to.

Also recently I had an extremely negative reaction from someone in the recovery section, just for giving advice they seemed to be asking for. I'm sick of crazy, rude, ungrateful, explosive people. They can go screw themselves too. Fuck em. I deserve better than to be treated like that.

So I'm off to find new pastures. I might try re-integratimg with normal society where things aren't so backward. It's a shame that it's come to this though, I used to see this place as a safe space. But it's not so much anymore. Sad. Very sad. I wish you all well. I'll be back from time to time, just not as much. I hope you avoid the scumbags and find positive, understanding people.

I won't be giving as many death tips as I did, because I've discovered that a majority of people here are under 25, which in my eyes means they simply have not given recovery a good enough shot, and are being impulsive. This would put more pressure on death-tip givers to be doxxed by police and prosecuted. I don't need that shit. I've helped enough people for a good member badge, and I think I'm done. Someone else can bloody take over. Do you know how many times I've given out sources? And not even received thanks? It's not worth it.

Well, I have my SN and knowledge on how to use it. Apart from venting, the only real use this site has for me now is to connect me a supplier if N when one next comes about. So I will still be keeping my eye open for that.

Anyway, best wishes to all. I hope the non-oro-destgers recover, and the asshole pro-death kiddies can fuck themselves. I hope they lead long, miserable lives for the misery they spread.

Ta ta

I hope you can feel better and find the right way for yourself. It's true that a lot of people here have given up, and a lot haven't and are wavering- it's hard to tell the difference sometimes. You have been caring towards a lot of people here, and it's tough to read oftentimes when to offer hope or when to leave it alone because a person just wants to find peace somehow, this is tough to read for everybody because people's moods change so much in this situation. Maybe after a while you will want to come back. I hope you'll be ok whichever path you choose.

 

[Superdeterminist]

are clearly temporary and that will probably pass in time.

When you say "clearly temporary" you imply certainty, but then you shift to "probably'. Which is it? Both regardless read as overconfidence in knowing the future of another person's life. I think "might" is a lot more suitable if one wants to play the optimist card.

 

[hamvil]

When you say "clearly temporary" you imply certainty, but then you shift to "probably'. Which is it? Both regardless read as overconfidence in knowing the future of another person's life. I think "might" is a lot more suitable if one wants to play the optimist card.

I am not gonna start flames over the selection of words and I am not playing any card here. If somebody says that he/she wants to CTB because the brother always keeps high volume music (just an example and if something like this was indeed posted it is merely a coincidence) then the reason is trivial and bound to pass with time. Maybe teen-age discomforts often propagate to the early twenties and usually pass away when you reach your 30. In some cases they do not, but my point it is that it is not unreasonable to ask a person to wait and give time. Is this painful, yes probably but life can be painful. Feel free to play the legal age card.

 

[SamTam33]

I am not gonna start flames over the selection of words and I am not playing any card here. If somebody says that he/she wants to CTB because the brother always keeps high volume music (just an example and if something like this was indeed posted it is merely a coincidence) then the reason is trivial and bound to pass with time. Maybe teen-age discomforts often propagate to the early twenties and usually pass away when you reach your 30. In some cases they do not, but my point it is that it is not unreasonable to ask a person to wait and give time. Is this painful, yes probably but life can be painful. Feel free to play the legal age card.

I get what you're saying. I really do. But most people aren't going to declare themselves suicidal over music volume, for example.

And if it's strictly said in the heat of the moment - they're not going to take the time to look for a place to talk about it and source methods.

Therefore, if someone comes here and makes a similar declaration - it's a good indication they have something else going on with them.

Something that, if fleshed out, would probably still point them in the direction of suicide (underlying disorders, trauma, etc).

I see those posts and sarcastically think to myself, "I wish that was my main problem," but at the same time I know they likely have other issues not revealed in a handful of posts.

So I just let them be.

If they're supposedly being irrational over a superficial problem, how receptive are they going to be towards someone giving practical, yet unrequested advice?

I'm a cynic through and through, so please don't mind me. But I think the ones giving advice are doing it more so for themselves (so they feel good and helpful) and less for the person they're talking to.

 

[Silent.Tears]

I'm sorry man, I wish there were no arguments between forum members. But we are humans after all, and there will be disagreements always. However, I strongly believe the root cause in this particular instance was an outsider (a certain someone) spreading arguably a good message, but in a very wrong hateful way.
So, I blame no forum member for this. And I wish to see you around in atleast the games section. I wish you wouldn't go but it's not my place to say.

 

[Exact Change]

Respect is a rare commodity these days. Even more rare are those people with humility. I understand your desire to reduce time here and the judgment of others. But, it's everywhere.

 

[MellowAvenue]

And if it's strictly said in the heat of the moment - they're not going to take the time to look for a place to talk about it and source methods.

I don't know if I completely agree with this. If it's heat of the moment and they're thinking it and have immediate access to a means of research I absolutely could see someone looking up resources, seeing how it could be done, and edging themselves into more serious ideation and eventually behavior. I doubt it's as super common, but I'm sure it happens.

Now, what I can't see if it's purely heat of the moment is them hopping on here specifically, seeing recommendations for SN, then them taking the time to order it, waiting patiently for it, and at no point in the process it takes to get it not charging their minds. The heat of the moment ones I think would be people who look into the more rash, low set up methods (Jumping, hanging, shooting, other OD methods, etc, depending on what they have access to).

 

[Un-]

I'm starting to think that pro-choice mentality can't really exist.. I feel conflicted. I sort of see both sides. Older people look at my situation and they see hope. From my eyes, there's none.

Can you blame me for killing myself? I don't think so.. But there was hope. So, I don't know.

It's a conflict that I don't think will ever be solved... At least not under the pro choice guise.. It's impossible to get young people to see hope when they don't see it. But it's a moral conflict with people to see young people die when there is hope.

It confuses me to even word this thread correctly.. I don't know. I don't think there's a person who's wrong here.

The best case scenario is that it's a generational thing.. People too old, and too young to see eye to eye. The worst case scenario is that it's a "Playing God" scenario - people seeing suicide as sanctimonious and thus encouraging it, and people seeing it as malevolent, and thus condemning it "for thee but not for me".

 

[WorthlessTrash]

@jodes2 , I have constantly told you in chat that you're not going to be able to convince others when they make good bye threads or make threads asking for sources. You're encouraging hope to people who don't see any. It's like convincing people aliens exist, you need to prove it. However, you simply cannot prove that there is hope for people as everyone's situation varies. I also told you that there is a fine line between encouraging suicide and respecting people's choices. All because we don't offer hope and say "Please don't kill yourself", does not mean we are encouraging it. We are simply letting the individual make their own decision.

I furthermore told you that unless proven otherwise, everyone in this site should be given the benefit of the doubt that they have made the most informed decision they can based on their circumstances. Saying "there is recovery", "a chance you can recover" and so on comes off as real gaslighty and gives off the impression that you feel like you can pick and choose who gets to CTB. The right to CTB is not something you can gatekeep. I also find it alarming that in chat you condemn those that are 18 or younger for wanting to CTB, but here the magic number is 25 and younger. Talk about moving the goal post.

 

[Lonerzepam]

Oh man I'm sorry to hear that you're leaving. I hope you'll come back ocassionally. But I understand your decision with all the shitstorm going on here. I always enjoyed playing the forum games with you. I'm also thankfull for the private conversations we had you really helped me out sometimes. I see you have good intentions in helping people out whatever it be. Hope I'll see you from time to time. Take it easy man :)

 

[Banshee]

I'm not here to tell anyone to ctb nor am I here to tell anyone to look into recovery. It's not my job and it's not your job either. Now, kindly delete your account.

 

[Lucilius]

OP has a point. Idk, there are some really young people here, many of whom seem, by their own account, mostly just trapped in really fucked up claustrophobic environments. Talking about "growing pains" which will go away "naturally" with time seems a bit too naive. But maybe some of them should consider the possibility of, idk, using a non lethal dose of that N they bought on the internet to get their abusive families to fall asleep on their dinner plates while they ride a stolen motorbike into the sunset rather than ctbing with it? Idk. I'm being a bit facetious here, but you get the point.

As for myself, even thoguh I have ended up losing the war, it was not without winning a few battles which I would have never dreamt of winning back when I was 18. So even if having been dead at that age would have been better for me than the life I eventually ended living, there were still choices I could have taken back then to save me and suicide would not have been justified (and believe me, I was in a lot of pain).

 

[clueless2dayor2morro]

Just adding to the pile; i do agree that we should emphasize the importance of attempting recovery before making the final decision to ctb. ctb isn't something purely reserved for the aging and disabled, but it also shouldn't be the first decision to make without first attempting recovery. i know its hard to want to do, to continue existing painfully with seemingly poor resources on offer for people who already have very little.

i also want to add that this forum has saved me from ctb in an impulsive and quite possibly painful and messy manner. it has also saved me from further madness and worse ideation by avoiding being locked away in the sterile environment of facilities.

maybe they just need time to read and learn, and i feel like this forum buys everyone more time in general.

it's not useful to lobby for the idea that all existence in painful or for the idea that everyone can recover. which is why, even though i'm sure this post is stirring up a lot of arguments (i haven't read many posts after OP's first), its important to bring this up as a reminder.

anyways, while it is noble to attempt to talk those who don't quite understand ctb as "pro-choice" away from a "pro-death" mindset, i think that it's best to (especially when its only going to frustrate you and keep energy from you to recover) do what you're already doing.

i do more or less the same, where i have gone between getting off this site while i'm recovering and when i'm at my lows just to feel like i need to read and interact with someone who understands my frustrations with recovery. i actually was off this site long enough to forget my account credentials. but, i'm at another low again and i'm on the road to traditional recovery. i'm scared that it'll only make me more miserable but hey, ctb is pretty final as far as i know.

edit to add: i found my credentials again, out of luck, while trying to get my life on track again. it's weird.