Discussion Give us help if you want to save suicidal people so badly

[willitpass]

The thing that irks me so much about the adamant opposers of this site is their complete disregard towards providing adequate help to those of us able they so desperately want to save from this site. Their argument is often that were vulnerable people who need help, yet often they turn around and talk about how those who they lost sought help and were failed by it before turning to this site. In that regard they are correct, many of us have sought help and it hasn't worked, it let us down. And so we reached the point where death seems the only option. It's exactly where I am at, I am out of treatment options and have been for years.

If they want to help us so bad, then what do they plan on doing with all of us when they reach their almighty goal of shutting this site down? Tell us "we matter"? Throw us back in the psych wards that have traumatized many of us so horribly? Simply forget about us? Many of us have been failed by therapy and medications and other alternative treatments. Many of us are well beyond the point of a hug and a pat on the back pulling us out of the depths of hell of our mind. So what do they plan on doing with us? If they want to help us so bad that they have devoted their life to getting this site shut down then they need to give us something to help us. Because if this site gets shut down suicidal people will not be gone. They will simply find a way to die on their own terms once help has failed them, as has happened for all of human existence. So if you want to help us so bad, give us some help. Many of us are out of options.

 

[UKscotty]

I think its important to direct the blame to the right people. The government and those who vote for them. The government doesn't care and pharmaceutical companies need customers not well people.

I live in the UK and have interacted with amazing police, paramedics and doctors. I'd never blame police or the NHS.

Our government is so pro suicide it should be a crime against humanity what they have done to people with MH issues.

 

[willitpass]

I think its important to direct the blame to the right people. The government and those who vote for them. The government doesn't care and pharmaceutical companies need customers not well people.

I live in the UK and have interacted with amazing police, paramedics and doctors. I'd never blame police or the NHS.

Our government is so pro suicide it should be a crime against humanity what they have done to people with MH issues.

I blame the people trying to get this site shut down for the lack of resources, my point is that I feel their energy is being misdirected. They are spending so much time towards shutting this site down and none towards improving resources to help those of us who find our way here.

 

[アホペンギン]

I'd like to add onto these points mentioned here, since it's also important to address the unseemly actions directed towards the members and administrators of this website, carried out by the adamant opposers of this website such as the fixers and their supporters.

Despite claiming that they want to help the vulnerable and end all suicides, and after admitting that they perceive us as vulnerable, they resort to harassment, doxxing, and bullying tactics against the members here who did nothing wrong, and simply just wish for peace.
This behavior that they and their supporters claim to be "heroic" is not only counterproductive but also very insulting, and harmful as what it only does to us is exacerbate our already unbearable suffering.

I can't believe they're so ignorant to the point where they can't and probably refuse to realize that their so-called "help" is not helping anyone. And banning this website definitely won't contribute to the recovery of the members here either that they claim to care so much about.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

If they want to help me, they should give me a way to access nembutal. But of course they don't want to help, they just want to keep people alive to make them into wage slaves for as long as possible

 

[Morte]

They should give me money, If they wsnt to help that bad

 

[Fktw0rld]

They're not in it to help in anyway. It's what my psychology professor used to refer to as a, "feel good" team. They're a group of people (otherwise having no voice or following) who gather together to form an artificial, mostly temporary, team. In a society where they don't matter it will gain them some new followers, likes and shares. One may even become the, "leader." They'll drag it out as long as they can because it gives them a sense of self value, but a good portion of the team will fall off as time progresses and seek a new one.

They're not made to benefit anyone around them; just themselves.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I feel exactly this. Imagine if they channelled all their efforts and hatred into finding out why those that took their own lives did so. If that person did reach out, (and you're right- they most likely did at some stage) why didn't that help work? Were they given help even? Were they continuing to ask for help right up until they died? If so- WTF happened?

There are absolutely members here crying out for help. @FireFox springs to mind. I hope she doesn't mind me mentioning her but, as far as I'm aware, she's actively asking for help and being denied. Nice one NHS.

I agree with @TAW122 's take on things. Quit or reduce trying to push 'help' on people who don't want it. Heavy handed suicide prevention in other words. At least make sure that you're giving people assistance- and adequate assistance when they ask for it as a priority. People who actually want your help are going to be more willing to accept it- surely?

Don't they wonder- even for a minute why sites like this are popular? Surely it isn't just for methods. It's to be able to actually talk about this stuff with people who are empathetic enough to give a shit!

 

[darkenmydoorstep]

The thing that irks me so much about the adamant opposers of this site is their complete disregard towards providing adequate help to those of us able they so desperately want to save from this site. Their argument is often that were vulnerable people who need help, yet often they turn around and talk about how those who they lost sought help and were failed by it before turning to this site. In that regard they are correct, many of us have sought help and it hasn't worked, it let us down. And so we reached the point where death seems the only option. It's exactly where I am at, I am out of treatment options and have been for years.

If they want to help us so bad, then what do they plan on doing with all of us when they reach their almighty goal of shutting this site down? Tell us "we matter"? Throw us back in the psych wards that have traumatized many of us so horribly? Simply forget about us? Many of us have been failed by therapy and medications and other alternative treatments. Many of us are well beyond the point of a hug and a pat on the back pulling us out of the depths of hell of our mind. So what do they plan on doing with us? If they want to help us so bad that they have devoted their life to getting this site shut down then they need to give us something to help us. Because if this site gets shut down suicidal people will not be gone. They will simply find a way to die on their own terms once help has failed them, as has happened for all of human existence. So if you want to help us so bad, give us some help. Many of us are out of options.

I wonder if eventually it will take on something a bit like when drugs went all 'harm minimisation' in the 90's. Remember when instead of 'just say no' they started to say "well if you are gonna do it then here's how to do it best…."
That would be my hope.
All the current approach does is has people either suffering not feeling about to end it or trying to end it and then ending up in a worse state.

 

[FuneralCry]

Sorry but I'm not mentally ill for preffering to not exist, my wish to die is simply a result of becoming aware of how truly undesirable existence is, under no circumstances would I ever wish to decay from age in this hellish world where there is no limit as to how torturous existing can get. For me existence itself is the problem and I need death to save me from the evil that is existence.

 

[willitpass]

Sorry but I'm not mentally ill for preffering to not exist, my wish to die is simply a result of becoming aware of how truly undesirable existence is, under no circumstances would I ever wish to decay from age in this hellish world where there is no limit as to how torturous existing can get. For me existence itself is the problem and I need death to save me from the evil that is existence.

Not everyone wants help and that's fine. There's also many here who are physically ill as well who this doesn't apply to. But some people do want help. And some people do see some good in life but it doesn't outweigh the bad. Some people tried everything but to no avail. There are many walks of life that could lead you to this website.

 

[trashprincess]

From my experience, all the 'help' I've been offered is just encouragement to help myself.

When normal people got their nurturing and development handed to them on silver platter, I can just replace all of that with some affirmations and exercise and a couple pills.

People will make empty criticisms of the "bootstraps" mentality, and then tell you the only solution to your miserable life is to work harder.

Plus when you actually try to bring up suicidal thoughts you just get the run around. Friends just want you to see a professional, professionals only ever want to talk inpatient or safety plans, and inpatient doesn't want to actually provide any therapy because you're too irrational at that moment.

Like when I tried to talk about self harm, the only conversation they wanted was about safety plans. And if I still had the urge to sh, it's just because I didn't have a good enough safety plan. Maybe.. just maybe... It's because I have to bottle up all my 'icky' thoughts because they're too hard for other people to listen to.

It doesn't help that I'm on Medicaid, which offers exclusively the worst mental healthcare. But not only that, the only therapists I've been able to find are attached to big organizations that feel a need to report EVERYTHING.

trauma story time
After getting SA'd a few weeks prior, I get a new therapist and one of the first things they tell me is that they need to report ALL instances of abuse, and are otherwise the most rules obsessed therapist I've ever met. FFS mfers don't want to listen to ANYTHING!!! Eventually they're just going to report you if you don't pretend to be happy all session long Like damn.. sorry I got molested...

They just want to convince themselves they're helping, and part of that is making sure we don't get to speak up for ourselves. That's why we all have to be wrong about everything.. It's the only way they can pretend they're right.

 

[Kit1]

There is just no help. Agree with trashprincess.

 

[Asingletwig]

Hmm do anything to actually help? Nah dox suicidal people. The fight for the shut down of the oh so terrible suicide brainwashing site it's just grandstanding for twitter points and so people forget that they might have been the reason their "loved" ones killed themselves

 

[willitpass]

There is just no help. Agree with trashprincess.

That's the point. The help available right now doesn't work for so many people. If they truly cared about suicidal people so bad they would spend their time and money on finding new treatments since they even themselves acknowledge that the help available in inadequate. Instead they put all their time and money into harassing people who are suffering immensely.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

They could rescue me so easily. Just give me money = my problem is solved. So yeah, if I get paid for therapy and get paid 150$+ / h for that then I'm certainly not suicidal anymore.

 

[Return2themoonlight]

Those that are against this site fail to realize how much this site actually helps people. They simply look at the cover and than judge the book as if they read it. In reality, this place has saved many people from CTB. We all wish the best for each other and those we lost, we wish them peace in their decision but we never encourage. We simply respect each others decision regardless of where that may lead.

 

[ColorlessTrees]

I've been failed time and again by authorities, support systems, and all the professionals that were meant to 'help'. Educators, counselors, parents, therapists, multiple psychiatrists, countless doctors. I scream for help, I present my case as clean as I can, my symptoms and pattern recognition, because they are seemingly too arrogant, uncaring, or incompetent to search for the answers themselves. School staff traumatized me and assaulted me for my separation anxiety, psychiatrist(s) told my parents I needed to be locked up, and the second one that my muteness was intentional stubborness. Third one took a crazy sum of money and ghosted me.
Doctors continue to gaslight me and ignore my red flags of genetic illness and terrible quality of life. "Treatment(s)" made me sick. Psych ward made my life hell, as the staff either whined about the bare minimum, i.e. having to take us to the bathroom because god forbid we try to hang ourselves with the toilet paper while we're taking a piss. That, or they got off on the power trip of treating vulnerable girls like subhumans.
Therapy did not, and cannot realistically help me, because my issues are the perfect trifecta of health, developmental, and environmental flaws.

What is the "help"? Where is it? I've been searching for years, in all avenues with an open mind. What am I supposed to do when lifestyle changes, medical treatment, and mental health professionals are worthless? Yet still I am the one chastised for not doing enough. I am somehow wrong for being suicidal, after years of trying, yet failing, to succeed at normalcy due to factors outside my control.

I'm absolutely tired. To shut down the site would be to slap a band aid on a bullet wound. Forums and even broader discussion like this exist as a symptom of societal inadequacy to treat the underlying 'disease'. But it's too much work for "them" to even empathize, because how on earth are they supposed to understand a different perspective and experience? Thinking outside the box is too difficult; instead, let's put the entire responsibility on the individual, and call it a dog-gone sunshiney day!

 

[darkenmydoorstep]

Those that are against this site fail to realize how much this site actually helps people. They simply look at the cover and than judge the book as if they read it. In reality, this place has saved many people from CTB. We all wish the best for each other and those we lost, we wish them peace in their decision but we never encourage. We simply respect each others decision regardless of where that may lead.

Well said. It's the only place I feel able to talk without being bullshitted.

 

[Iamtired]

Why help people who want to die when they could be making money off of you?

 

[willitpass]

Why help people who want to die when they could be making money off of you?

At least in the US they'd made a fortune by offering a new treatment.

 

[Iamtired]

At least in the US they'd made a fortune by offering a new treatment.

True but there would have to be incentive to raise the quality of life. And honestly there might be- neuro link will be available in the future it's a possibility to mimic brain neurons to tweak memories and brain processing capacity. So there's things on the horizon but…..it's still somewhat bleak.

 

[the_fail_man]

I'd like to add onto these points mentioned here, since it's also important to address the unseemly actions directed towards the members and administrators of this website, carried out by the adamant opposers of this website such as the fixers and their supporters.

Despite claiming that they want to help the vulnerable and end all suicides, and after admitting that they perceive us as vulnerable, they resort to harassment, doxxing, and bullying tactics against the members here who did nothing wrong, and simply just wish for peace.
This behavior that they and their supporters claim to be "heroic" is not only counterproductive but also very insulting, and harmful as what it only does to us is exacerbate our already unbearable suffering.

I can't believe they're so ignorant to the point where they can't and probably refuse to realize that their so-called "help" is not helping anyone. And banning this website definitely won't contribute to the recovery of the members here either that they claim to care so much about.

It's the vigilante syndrome. Most of them fail to realize having 10+ cops in a small, cramped home is pretty traumatic. They didn't do anything the first two times but just look at me like an alien and make sure I was OK basically. But it's a roll of the dice. If they think you aren't mentally healthy, they're gonna throw your ass in a ward. And those places are hell. Patients with my disease, and MH patients can both universally atest to that. These few things that these suicide vigilantes fail to realize make all the more reason people who are seeking to ctb need a safe space and make us more tight knit.

If these vigilantes actually had a plan after they accomplish their goal then I would be shocked. But it's just the classic "oh please suffer for me a little longer because I love you" BS we have all heard time and time again. Okay, I made it through another month for you. Now what?


"Just make it one more month, just another month"


Uh huh. You said that last month! ...and the month before. And, oh yeah, the one before that. Too.

 

[the_fail_man]

At least in the US they'd made a fortune by offering a new treatment.

Can confirm. They would be making so much money. There was that treatment for ALS that was just like NaPB + TUDCA and those fuckers were charging like 6 figures for it. Absurd. TUDCA is just a supplement. NaPB is not an expensive raw material to get either. There's no reason for that besides "it treats an illness so what you gonna do just die, lol?!"

 

[0000000000000]

If this site gets closed, i'm going to CTB sooner. Fuck those who want to close this site.

I'm sick of bitches who want to control my life because they think they know what's best for me.

 

[onbekend]

They don't really care about us. They know that getting this site shut down won't stop or even slow suicide numbers down, but they do it anyway because not only do they feel that they are actually doing us a favor but they also wanna benefit their public image and make themselves seem "charitable" (if that's the right word). What they don't understand is that In reality literally nobody wins here, because it's not like getting rid of this site would do them any good. In a best case scenario for them, Either another site will be formed or multiple forums will split up into their own "communities" (if that's the right word) and we'll end up with what is best described as an endless cycle. It's really an impossible uphill battle for the people against this site.

 

[willitpass]

They don't really care about us. They know that getting this site shut down won't stop or even slow suicide numbers down, but they do it anyway because not only do they feel that they are actually doing us a favor but they also wanna benefit their public image and make themselves seem "charitable" (if that's the right word). What they don't understand is that In reality literally nobody wins here, because it's not like getting rid of this site would do them any good. In a best case scenario for them, Either another site will be formed or multiple forums will split up into their own "communities" (if that's the right word) and we'll end up with what is best described as an endless cycle. It's really an impossible uphill battle for the people against this site.

This site is already part of this cycle. Suicide forums have existed since the internet started. Every time one would be shut down a new one would pop up. This site was actually created after r/SanctionedSuicide was banned from reddit.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Sadly, society's concern for suicidal people is performative at best. It's disingenuous. Most people would prefer getting outraged and doing the bare minimum in order to appear compassionate and feed their egos rather than actually work to help suicidal people. Any productive discussions on suicide, the nuances behind it, and how we need to improve different aspects of our society and change the system in order to help others get's brushed off. Instead, they make the conversation about themselves and trying to make themselves feel good. They spam useless hotline numbers, scream go and get therapy (which has basically become a new way to tell others to "go fuck off"), or they go on what how others would feel if you ctb'd, as though you should be living for others and not for yourself. They care more about spreading empty platitudes and forcing others to live by their standards rather than actually helping those around them. Pro-lifers are some of the most disingenuous and fake people out there.

 

[Redleaf1992]

I responded to a tweet yesterday, from Angus Crawford (BBC News) saying something similiar.

It just made my blood boil to see yet again the massive issue of suicide and mental health being blamed on a simple website. A website full of compassionate caring people just sharing their pain - made to seem to be an evil cult. While they ignore the actual issues the actually cause people to become suicidal.

 

[dogbreath]

Like when I tried to talk about self harm, the only conversation they wanted was about safety plans. And if I still had the urge to sh, it's just because I didn't have a good enough safety plan. Maybe.. just maybe... It's because I have to bottle up all my 'icky' thoughts because they're too hard for other people to listen to.

It doesn't help that I'm on Medicaid, which offers exclusively the worst mental healthcare. But not only that, the only therapists I've been able to find are attached to big organizations that feel a need to report EVERYTHING.

Am also on medicaid and the mental Healthcare they offer sucks!!!! I can't afford any "good" mental healthcare!! I'm already struggling to pay for my summer class which costs around 2,000 dollars! The program I'm in right now is just making me feel worse and they're not letting me leave until I find a new program, but there is none. Why are reporters targeting this site why aren't they advocating for better mental health treatment???

I hate how most therapists/mental health groups just try to problem solve immediately. No talking about icky stuff at all! Just practice mindfulness and treat yourself be :). The group I'm in right now, I talked about how I feel like nothings helping and all they told me is: "try grounding, I'm praying for you, get accommodations (which I already have) deep breaths!' Aggravating so Aggravating.

And when I was in the mental hospital? Literally it was filled with just...coloring pages, positive affirmations, making posters about future goals. Worthless worthless sick and tired of it all sick and tired of people saying " get help" and dear people working at bbc please PayPal me 2,000 dollars thanks <3