Free Palestine !

[nearlynovember]

Until its backwards ~ as ppl who understand suffering you would be fucking twisting yourself inside out to try and claim that the genocide occuring against the Palestinian people isn't utterly inhumane (amongst !! awful in every iteration of the sense). If a free Palestine is too much for you to consider maybe think about why you want to die (probably bc the world is full of unfair suffering or the likes) and then keep rethinking that until you find some humanity in your heart~

 

[SexyIncél]

There's a 2-part interview with Norman Finkelstein & other activists. (Part 1, part 2)

They discuss the effectiveness of slogans like: "Free Palestine", "Ceasefire now", "End the blockade"

 

[Pessimist]

It's not a genocide. The Israeli intent is to completely destroy Hamas, which is not a racial or ethnic group, but a terrorist organization. So it's not a genocide. Israel wants to destroy Hamas because of October 7 Hamas attack.

 

[Dot]

It's not a genocide. The Israeli intent is to completely destroy Hamas, which is not a racial or ethnic group, but a terrorist organization. So it's not a genocide. Israel wants to destroy Hamas because of October 7 Hamas attack.


View attachment 124848View attachment 124849

Tbf tho Isrl hve bn cre8tng ovr 140 illegl settlemnts & drivng Palstnns frm thr hmes lng b4 tht attck

& thre r Isrl politcns opnly sayng tht thy wnt t/ trn areas of Gza in2 a 'footbll grnd' & pt settlmnts in thre

Am nt wantng 2 caus offnse bt th/ ovr-all conflct = mch biggr thn 1 attck

 

[Adûnâi]

Wait, has this forum section always existed? Or did I not have access?

the genocide occuring against the Palestinian people isn't utterly inhumane

But there is no genocide? The Palestinians are breeding faster than the Jews. It's saddening, really. I wish the Jews put up a glorious fight - but they seem as cucked as the whitebois. Christian mercy to foreigners is one hell of a drug, apparently.

Tbf tho Isrl hve bn cre8tng ovr 140 illegl settlemnts & drivng Palstnns frm thr hmes lng b4 tht attck

Israel cucked in and expelled its own settlers from Gaza in 2005.

One nugget of wisdom:
>>I oppose genocide because it will stop the war.

 

[neutralmilk]

Agreed. The world's response is kind of part of the reason Im feeling suicidal rn. I don't understand how anyone can defend genocide.

 

[Pessimist]

Agreed. The world's response is kind of part of the reason Im feeling suicidal rn. I don't understand how anyone can defend genocide.

Let's talk about genocide. Hamas jihadists actually committed genocide, raped women, kidnapped and beheaded people on October 7.

Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hamas Massacre - October 2023

On October 7, 2023, thousands of Hamas terrorists breached Israel’s security fence. Over 1,400 men, women, and children were murdered in the ensuing attack. More than 200 were kidnapped to Gaza. These graphic videos and images document the horrors of that day.

www.hamas-massacre.net

 

[Suicidebydeath]

I will just say that conflict in general sucks all around. It's a shame that people have to suffer over it.

 

[Pessimist]

I will just say that conflict in general sucks all around. It's a shame that people have to suffer over it.

Except the other side unironically supports an Islamist terrorist organization.

 

[neutralmilk]

Let's talk about genocide. Hamas jihadists actually committed genocide, raped women, kidnapped and beheaded people on October 7.

Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hamas Massacre - October 2023

On October 7, 2023, thousands of Hamas terrorists breached Israel’s security fence. Over 1,400 men, women, and children were murdered in the ensuing attack. More than 200 were kidnapped to Gaza. These graphic videos and images document the horrors of that day.

www.hamas-massacre.net

200 ppl vs destroying all but 1 hospital and most of the population is not the same.

 

[Pessimist]

200 ppl vs destroying all but 1 hospital and most of the population is not the same.

What the hell are you talking about? Stop throwing random numbers.

 

[SexyIncél]

Good to see that International Court of Justice ruled overwhelmingly that South Africa has a plausible case that Israel's committing genocide: 15 to 2. Even the US & German judges got on board

South Africa didn't get the ceasefire for Palestianians (as expected), but at least racist-ass Israel got admonished to cut out the genocide, and cooperate to let in humanitarian aid. Naturally, the US & Israel is spinning propaganda, so they can continue attacking Palestinian civilians. Power & violence is on their side. But at least it's a step forward

Even Uganda released a statement saying they had nothing to do with the Ugandan outlier judge; she's gonna have to deal with her shattered reputation for the rest of her life. No other judge was willing to go so far, not even the Israeli judge

 

[Pessimist]

Good to see that International Court of Justice ruled overwhelmingly that South Africa has a plausible case that Israel's committing genocide & better cut it out: 15 to 2. Even the US & German judges got on board

South Africa didn't get the ceasefire for Palestianians (as expected), but at least racist-ass Israel got admonished to cut out the genocide, and cooperate to let in humanitarian aid. Naturally, the US & Israel is spinning propaganda, so they can continue attacking Palestinian civilians. Power & violence is on their side. But at least it's a step forward

Even Uganda released a statement saying they had nothing to do with the Ugandan outlier judge; she's gonna have to deal with her shattered reputation for the rest of her life. No other judge was willing to go so far, not even the Israeli judge

I'm sure South Africa is very trustworthy and unbiased.

A major South African communist and black nationalist party wants to arm Hamas

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[SexyIncél]

I'm sure South Africa is very trustworthy and unbiased.

Interesting how transparent Israeli propaganda is. Probably from playing on easy-mode for so long, back when people feared being called antisemites. So they got lazy & institutionally incompetent

Guess that explains why they still use Dershowitz, that ambulance-chaser who successfully defended Jeffrey Epstein

Irony: I'm just about to eat an Israel-style breakfast Shakshuka. But vegan. Do you eat that sometimes?

Edit: tastes like spicy spaghetti sauce

 

[Pessimist]

Interesting how transparent Israeli propaganda is. Probably from playing on easy-mode for so long, back when people feared being called antisemites. So they got lazy & institutionally incompetent

Guess that explains why they still use Dershowitz, that ambulance-chaser who successfully defended Jeffrey Epstein

Irony: I'm just about to eat an Israel-style breakfast Shakshuka. But vegan. Do you eat that sometimes?

Edit: tastes like spicy spaghetti sauce

Define propaganda. I'm obviously biased towards Israel in the same way that you're biased towards Palestine. When one group sends out warning messages to civilians before bombing a war zone and the other group is massacring an entire music festival, I know which side I prefer.

 

[SexyIncél]

Define propaganda. I'm obviously biased towards Israel in the same way that you're biased towards Palestine. When one group sends out warning messages to civilians before bombing a war zone and the other group is massacring an entire music festival, I know which side I prefer.

Guess that's the difference between you & me. I'm not inherently biased in favor of Palestinians. I'd obviously support Israelis, if the shoe was on the other foot. But in this case, sadly Israelis are "mostly genocidal maniacs", as Norman Finkelstein claims.

If I have a bias, it's in favor of the underdog

In contrast, you vent in Hebrew, which is some evidence you're biased in favor of Israel — not on principle, but because that's your side. If you were German or Palestinian, you'd be on their side instead. Because you lack higher principles

Anyway, warnings are absurd when you drop earth-shaking 2,000 pound bombs on densely populated "safe" areas; tweeting warnings on the same day you cut off internet; bombing hospitals full of babies in incubators (not to mention older people!) who obviously aren't mobile

[Edit: Oops, my polling data only includes that subset of Israeli who are Jewish. I can't speak for other Israelis. And of course, in any population — even the most propagandized ones — there's gonna be some noble exceptions. My apologies to any non-genocidal Israelis I wrongly characterized]

 

[Chinaski]

Until its backwards ~ as ppl who understand suffering you would be fucking twisting yourself inside out to try and claim that the genocide occuring against the Palestinian people isn't utterly inhumane (amongst !! awful in every iteration of the sense). If a free Palestine is too much for you to consider maybe think about why you want to die (probably bc the world is full of unfair suffering or the likes) and then keep rethinking that until you find some humanity in your heart~

Superb post, very sharply and succinctly put, and genuinely refreshing to read something on here that gives due consideration and value to the lives of others who are suffering in a way few people on here will ever experience.

 

[Dot]

Guess that's the difference between you & me. I'm not inherently biased in favor of Palestinians. I'd obviously support Israelis, if the shoe was on the other foot. But in this case, sadly Israelis are genocidal maniacs. War criminals who luckily have power on their side — because they no longer have brains

If I have a bias, it's in favor of the underdog

In contrast, you vent in Hebrew, which is some evidence you're biased in favor of Israel — not on principle, but because that's your side. If you were German or Palestinian, you'd be on their side instead. Because you lack higher principles

Anyway, warnings are absurd when you drop earth-shaking 2,000 pound bombs on densely populated "safe" areas; tweeting warnings on the same day you cut off internet; bombing hospitals full of babies in incubators (not to mention older people!) who obviously aren't mobile

Slf am agnst mny actns of isrl govrnmnt & miltry also bt wld ask tht u pls d/ nt mke broad genrlisatns sch as 'isralis r gencidal mniacs'

Thre r plnty of isrli membrs on frum wh/ d/ nt reprsnt thr govrnmnt

 

[Pessimist]

Guess that's the difference between you & me. I'm not inherently biased in favor of Palestinians. I'd obviously support Israelis, if the shoe was on the other foot. But in this case, sadly Israelis are genocidal maniacs. War criminals who luckily have power on their side — because they no longer have brains

If I have a bias, it's in favor of the underdog

In contrast, you vent in Hebrew, which is some evidence you're biased in favor of Israel — not on principle, but because that's your side. If you were German or Palestinian, you'd be on their side instead. Because you lack higher principles

Anyway, warnings are absurd when you drop earth-shaking 2,000 pound bombs on densely populated "safe" areas; tweeting warnings on the same day you cut off internet; bombing hospitals full of babies in incubators (not to mention older people!) who obviously aren't mobile

Me venting in Hebrew a few years ago proves that I'm inherently biased in favor of Israelis? It's a good way of saying you have antisemitic tendencies.

Slf am agnst mny actns of isrl govrnmnt & miltry also bt wld ask tht u pls d/ nt mke broad genrlisatns sch as 'isralis r gencidal mniacs'

Thre r plnty of isrli membrs on frum wh/ d/ nt reprsnt thr govrnmnt

Yes, that's just like saying all Palestinians are Islamic terrorists.

Superb post, very sharply and succinctly put, and genuinely refreshing to read something on here that gives due consideration and value to the lives of others who are suffering in a way few people on here will ever experience.

You couldn't be any further from the truth. The person you're positively responding to is a Hamas supporter.

 

[neutralmilk]

Guess that's the difference between you & me. I'm not inherently biased in favor of Palestinians. I'd obviously support Israelis, if the shoe was on the other foot. But in this case, sadly Israelis are genocidal maniacs. War criminals who luckily have power on their side — because they no longer have brains

If I have a bias, it's in favor of the underdog

In contrast, you vent in Hebrew, which is some evidence you're biased in favor of Israel — not on principle, but because that's your side. If you were German or Palestinian, you'd be on their side instead. Because you lack higher principles

Anyway, warnings are absurd when you drop earth-shaking 2,000 pound bombs on densely populated "safe" areas; tweeting warnings on the same day you cut off internet; bombing hospitals full of babies in incubators (not to mention older people!) who obviously aren't mobile

Literally. If anything I've been fed anti-Arabic propaganda all my life living in North America. It's a choice to resist that. And that choice is based on facts. When many western news outlets refuse to even say Palestine or Palestinian, the anti-Arabic bias is made clear. Idk what this guy is on about but he's truly bought into Zionist lies

 

[Pessimist]

Literally. If anything I've been fed anti-Arabic propaganda all my life living in North America. It's a choice to resist that. And that choice is based on facts. When many western news outlets refuse to even say Palestine or Palestinian, the anti-Arabic bias is made clear. Idk what this guy is on about but he's truly bought into Zionist lies

Anti-Arabism is a massive problem, it led the Nazis to murder six million people in hope to exterminate the Arabs. Oh, the victims were Jewish? Also what news outlets refuse to say "Palestinians"? Because the Israeli media says it all the time. Anyway you literally provided nothing new, you have no sources or logical arguments.

 

[SexyIncél]

Slf am agnst mny actns of isrl govrnmnt & miltry also bt wld ask tht u pls d/ nt mke broad genrlisatns sch as 'isralis r gencidal mniacs'

Thre r plnty of isrli membrs on frum wh/ d/ nt reprsnt thr govrnmnt

I wish it was just the government, not the populace. But it's more like the old US South, where slavery couldn't just be blamed on corrupt politicians & a few slaveowners. Even though we could point to some courageous White abolitionists. Sadly, as a whole, they were raised to be freedom-hating racists. With a similar vengeful bloodlust as today's Israelis, after the 1831 Nat Turner slave rebellion

Simple test: what'd happen if a black slave tried pretending otherwise? Or a Palestinian trapped in the Gaza death camp?

It's nothing personal. Future people will deem my countrypeople horrific too: lots of people homeless despite much empty housing. We just walk on past, doing nothing. Banality of evil, as Hannah Arendt said

And our banally evil populations shouldn't be killed or anything crazy like that! We should just stop being evil & happily move on

To any Israel SaSu member who organizes to help Palestinians: please feel free to message me, and I'll apologize to you directly. There's always noble exceptions. You're nothing like some genocidal schmuck, and you have my respect. I'll ask about your hard-won lessons, because you're historically a rare great person

Me venting in Hebrew a few years ago proves that I'm inherently biased in favor of Israelis?

Haha, hell no, I only called it "some evidence you're biased". After all, if I supported Israel's genocidal campaign like you, me eating breakfast Shakshuka would definitely lead people to consider I may be biased

Since I don't, maybe Shakshuka's evidence I'm NOT biased. :) I probably have more modern Jewish cultural influences than Arabic ones

If you don't like it, maybe don't invite me to evaluate your personal bias. By calling me biased like you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Pessimist]

I wish it was just the government, not the populace. But it's more like the old US South, where slavery couldn't just be blamed on corrupt politicians & a few slaveowners. Even though we could point to some courageous White abolitionists. Sadly, as a whole, they were raised to be freedom-hating racists. With a similar vengeful bloodlust as today's Israelis, after the 1831 Nat Turner slave rebellion

Simple test: what'd happen if a black slave tried pretending otherwise? Or a Palestinian trapped in the Gaza death camp?

It's nothing personal. Future people will deem my countrypeople horrific too: lots of people homeless despite much empty housing. We just walk on past, doing nothing. Banality of evil, as Hannah Arendt said

And our banally evil populations shouldn't be killed or anything crazy like that! We should just stop being evil & happily move on

To any Israel SaSu member who organizes to help Palestinians: please feel free to message me, and I'll apologize to you directly. There's always noble exceptions. You're nothing like some genocidal schmuck, and you have my respect. I'll ask about your hard-won lessons, because you're historically a rare great person


Haha, hell no, I only called it "some evidence you're biased". After all, if I supported Israel's genocidal campaign like you, me eating breakfast Shakshuka would definitely lead people to consider I may be biased

Since I don't, maybe Shakshuka's evidence I'm NOT biased. :) I probably have more modern Jewish cultural influences than Arabic ones

If you don't like it, maybe don't invite me to evaluate your personal bias. By calling me biased like you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Are you saying that Israeli Arabs, Israeli Palestinians and Israeli Muslims are also Islamophobic/genocidal/anti-Arab? They make up 20% of the Israeli population.

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

I find it hilarious that Israel's government, the government of the United States, and some of the more conservative populous on both sides expect the american tax payer to fund Israel's war in gaza while Israelis also get the luxury of free healthcare and free college tuition for themselves (somehow there's "just no money for it in the US").

I'm not sure which is worse, the Israeli who takes full advantage of these benefits but also demands US aid after their government aggressively provokes the palestinian people, or the American who hears "terrorists in the middle east!!" and is willing to sabotage their own life to bomb a random child they will never meet.

This conflict has been going on for several decades and isn't going to end unless israel forcibly annexes and integrates all of gaza and the west bank into a unified secular state or agrees to a fair two state solution, both of which have been possible time and time again. Israel's government has consistently held the power to make long lasting change and has consistently acted with either intentional negligence or literal 1800s style colonialism.

So while our citizens sit here unable to pay their unaffordable medical bills we can all rest easy knowing that that money will be well spent bombing the enemies of some entitled individuals halfway around the globe who have decided they want some adventure and cheap real estate in "the holy land" at the expense of the palestinians.

 

[SexyIncél]

Are you saying that Israeli Arabs, Israeli Palestinians and Israeli Muslims are also Islamophobic/genocidal/anti-Arab? They make up 20% of the Israeli population.

Yeah, in the shower I realized I'd better edit my post, to correct that silly error. Thank you for catching it! You win 10 brain points. My polling data specifically excludes them, so I can't comment on them

They'd probably pass the test I mentioned

 

[Pessimist]

unless israel forcibly annexes and integrates all of gaza and the west bank into a unified secular state

• 99% of Gazans are Muslims.
• According to the Anti-Defamation League, 93% of Palestinians are antisemites.
• Mein Kampf is a Palestinian best-seller.
• An Islamist terrorist organization is governing the Gaza Strip.
• In 2009, Hamas called the systematic murder of Jews during the Holocaust "a lie invented by the Zionists", and called the teaching of the Holocaust to Palestinian children a "war crime".
• The governing charter of Hamas, "The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement", openly dedicates Hamas to genocide against the Jewish people. Hamas also claims that the French revolution, the Russian revolution, colonialism and both world wars were created as a Jewish Zionist conspiracy and that the Freemasons and Rotary clubs are Zionist fronts and refers to the fraudulent Protocols of the Elders of Zion, an antisemitic text purporting to describe a plan to achieve global domination by the Jewish people.
• Even their children's television shows are antisemitic.

How are you going to create a unified secular state without fighting Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad first?

Israelis also get the luxury of free healthcare and free college tuition for themselves (somehow there's "just no money for it in the US").

I'm not sure which is worse, the Israeli who takes full advantage of these benefits but also demands US aid after their government aggressively provokes the palestinian people, or the American who hears "terrorists in the middle east!!" and is willing to sabotage their own life to bomb a random child they will never meet.

So while our citizens sit here unable to pay their unaffordable medical bills we can all rest easy knowing that that money will be well spent bombing the enemies of some entitled individuals halfway around the globe who have decided they want some adventure and cheap real estate in "the holy land" at the expense of the palestinians.

Also what the hell is this take that Israelis are rich? Are you doing the antisemitic "Jews are rich" argument? Israel is an extremely expensive country, has high rates poverty and no free college tuition.

Yeah, in the shower I realized I'd better edit my post, to correct that silly error. Thank you for catching it! You win 10 brain points. My polling data specifically excludes them, so I can't comment on them

They'd probably pass the test I mentioned

I'm not surprised that you forgot about them. Your antisemitism is causing you to always focus on the Jews.

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

• 99% of Gazans are Muslims.
• According to the Anti-Defamation League, 93% of Palestinians are antisemites.
• Mein Kampf is a Palestinian best-seller.
• An Islamist terrorist organization is governing the Gaza Strip.
• In 2009, Hamas called the systematic murder of Jews during the Holocaust "a lie invented by the Zionists", and called the teaching of the Holocaust to Palestinian children a "war crime".
• The governing charter of Hamas, "The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement", openly dedicates Hamas to genocide against the Jewish people. Hamas also claims that the French revolution, the Russian revolution, colonialism and both world wars were created as a Jewish Zionist conspiracy and that the Freemasons and Rotary clubs are Zionist fronts and refers to the fraudulent Protocols of the Elders of Zion, an antisemitic text purporting to describe a plan to achieve global domination by the Jewish people.
• Even their children's television shows are antisemitic.

How are you going to create a unified secular state without fighting Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad first?

I have a few concerns about the premise of some of the evidence you just gave:
1. Israel had almost complete control over Gaza from 1956-1957 and again from 1967 - 1994. Israel did not want to make the internal changes neccessary to live alongside the palestinians and they did not want to grant them statehood either, choosing willing negligence instead. Many Israelites and the Israeli government did not want to live alongisde the palestinians or grant them their own state. They wanted palestinians and the palestinian region to exist as a seperate but lesser entity. I as an American have no obligation to defend israel from the consequences of it's own actions/ lack thereof that have arisen from the apartheid they chose.

2. I imagine you too would be an anti-semite and consuming antisemitic media if a state based on that religion forcibly expelled your grandparents from their homeland and kept you in a perpetual state of poverty/ de-facto statelessness. I know most people would, and I have much more sympathy for someone who falls into extremism out of desperation over someone who is priviledged and knows exactly what is happening but chooses extremism anyways. Also if we want to talk about religious intolerance discrimination against christains is also widespread in israel, and yet, again, the overwhelmingly christain american public is supposed to act like it doesn't exist.

3. Hamas is just as bad as the Israeli rightwingers in their desire, both now and historically, to commit genocide on the opposing side. Me not wanting aid to go to Israel does not constitute support for hamas. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.

Going off of #3, I wasn't arguing that Israel should not attack hamas, I was arguing that American support should not be taken for granted by all parties. If I were the president of Israel right now I would pursue a two state solution. If I were the president of Israel during any one of the almost 3 decades of Israeli occupation of Gaza, I would pursue a unified secular state. If I magically became the president of Israel in 10 years I would pursue a unified secular state (because by that point presumably Israel will control the gaza strip again). Unfortunately I was/am not the president of Israel and I know that whether or not hamas is defeated, Israel will not do either of these things, so I am supporting an end to American aid. I don't like supporting colonialism and genocide, but some people do because the other side is also genocidal. Incredible world we live in isn't it?

 

[neutralmilk]

Anti-Arabism is a massive problem, it led the Nazis to murder six million people in hope to exterminate the Arabs. Oh, the victims were Jewish? Also what news outlets refuse to say "Palestinians"? Because the Israeli media says it all the time. Anyway you literally provided nothing new, you have no sources or logical arguments.

Here's sources from just Canada. Idk why I'm still responding.
https://breachmedia.ca/ctv-bell-media-forbids-palestine-suppresses-criticism-israel/

https://www.justpeaceadvocates.ca/t...-palestine-is-against-cbc-language-standards/

https://www.vice.com/en/article/5db...ael-palestine-after-demanding-fairer-coverage

Also here's a link about the Nakba because u clearly don't know about any other atrocity but the holacost http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/JVP-Nakba-Fact-Sheet.pdf

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

Also what the hell is this take that Israelis are rich? Are you doing the antisemitic "Jews are rich" argument? Israel is an extremely expensive country, has high rates poverty and no free college tuition

I did not say that Israelis are rich, and your eagerness to try and paint me as antisemitic is concerning. I said Israelis have free health care and free college education. It's actually free health care and heavily subsidized college education for Israelis (which was a mistake on my end), but to disprove me you linked a page for foreign students studying in israel.

Either way I am not calling you a racist/ white supremacist/ neocolonialism apologist for your views so please don't try to make up straw man arguments to put in my mouth and then call me antisemitic for it.

 

[neutralmilk]

Also people need to stop with the conflations. All Palestinians are not Hamas. All Jewish people are not Zionist. One can condemn Hamas without supporting the genocide of Palestinians. And one can criticize Zionism without being antisemitic. Plus if it's antisemitic to critique Zionism then what do u have to say about Gabor Maté, a literal holocaust survivor or Jewish voices for peace. Israel does not care about the hostages or targeting just Hamas. If they wanted to attack just Hamas they would not be using dumb bombs to blindly harm anyone in the area.