Free Palestine !

[Pessimist]

I did not say that Israelis are rich, and your eagerness to try and paint me as antisemitic is concerning. I said Israelis have free health care and free college education. It's actually free health care and heavily subsidized college education for Israelis (which was a mistake on my end), but to disprove me you linked a page for foreign students studying in israel.

Either way I am not calling you a racist/ white supremacist/ neocolonialism apologist for your views so please don't try to make up straw man arguments to put in my mouth and then call me antisemitic for it.

Doesn't seem very cheap to me

Here's sources from just Canada. Idk why I'm still responding.
https://breachmedia.ca/ctv-bell-media-forbids-palestine-suppresses-criticism-israel/

https://www.justpeaceadvocates.ca/t...-palestine-is-against-cbc-language-standards/

https://www.vice.com/en/article/5db...ael-palestine-after-demanding-fairer-coverage

Also here's a link about the Nakba because u clearly don't know about any other atrocity but the holacost http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/JVP-Nakba-Fact-Sheet.pdf

Yet they still use it on a regular basis.




However, we can talk about antisemitic propaganda, like BBC refusing to call Hamas "terrorists" despite their genocidal acts and ideology, or an extremely popular political commentator facing no consequences despite saying Hamas has the right to slaughter infants if they're "settlers".

Also people need to stop with the conflations. All Palestinians are not Hamas. All Jewish people are not Zionist. One can condemn Hamas without supporting the genocide of Palestinians. And one can criticize Zionism without being antisemitic. Plus if it's antisemitic to critique Zionism then what do u have to say about Gabor Maté, a literal holocaust survivor or Jewish voices for peace. Israel does not care about the hostages or targeting just Hamas. If they wanted to attack just Hamas they would not be using dumb bombs to blindly harm anyone in the area.

The existence of Kanye West (or any other black neo-Nazi) is not a proof that neo-Nazism is not anti-black. In the same way, the existence of a Jewish anti-Zionist is not a proof that anti-Zionism is not antisemitic. I've explained it here:

Anti-Zionism = Antisemitism

"But anti-Zionism is not a form of antisemitism" It is. Criticizing the conservative government of Netanyahu and the settlements in the West Bank is not antisemitic. However, believing that the only Jewish country in the entire world doesn't have the right to exist is antisemitic and racist...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

Sorry for the late reply.

$3,900-$15,000 seems moderately to very heavily subsidized to me, I can't say whether it can be called cheap or not when you adjust for a number of other factors, but, again, that's not what I said.

I'm still not sure what your argument is. I said Israelis receive free college education and free healthcare (which I corrected to free healthcare and heavily subsidized college education), which is significantly more than what most Americans receive. This is not antisemitic (or xenophobic since we are talking about a nation and not a religion), it is raw information about the social safety nets that exist in both America and Israel.

I also pointed out my annoyance with the ideas that some conservative Israelis and Americans have about America's "obligation" to gift weapons to Israel. Donate to Netanyahu's war yourself if you want to, and deal with the consequences when a new generation of palestinians hate you, Israel, and America because you decided not to try to end the endless cycle. Don't involve me or the average US tax payer in your plans for another genocide though.

And yes it is a Genocide if the state in question is actively removing people from their homes to make way for settlers, keeping them intentionally stateless, and confining them to an open air prison. I am using the UN definition of Genocide from 1948, of which both the US and Israel are signatories.

Any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

 

[Pessimist]

Sorry for the late reply.

$3,900-$15,000 seems moderately to very heavily subsidized to me, I can't say whether it can be called cheap or not when you adjust for a number of other factors, but, again, that's not what I said.

I'm still not sure what your argument is. I said Israelis receive free college education and free healthcare (which I corrected to free healthcare and heavily subsidized college education), which is significantly more than what most Americans receive. This is not antisemitic (or xenophobic since we are talking about a nation and not a religion), it is raw information about the social safety nets that exist in both America and Israel.

I also pointed out my annoyance with the ideas that some conservative Israelis and Americans have about America's "obligation" to gift weapons to Israel. Donate to Netanyahu's war yourself if you want to, and deal with the consequences when a new generation of palestinians hate you, Israel, and America because you decided not to try to end the endless cycle. Don't involve me or the average US tax payer in your plans for another genocide though.

And yes it is a Genocide if the state in question is actively removing people from their homes to make way for settlers, keeping them intentionally stateless, and confining them to an open air prison. I am using the UN definition of Genocide from 1948, of which both the US and Israel are signatories.

First of all, antisemitism is not a religious discrimination; this would be anti-Judaism. Antisemitism is a form of racism; discrimination against ethnic Jews, regardless of their religious beliefs. Also, that's really your take? Israel has universal health care therfore America shouldn't support Israel? America needs Israel because America is a great power and needs to have some control and power in the Middle East. It's a political investment.

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

Well thanks for clarifying - I learned something new today, but I am not anti-semitic or anti-judaism or even anti-Israel.

And yes, that is my take. Israel's educational system is way more subsidized than the US' and they have free health care. I could not care less about the military industrial complex's need for power projection into the middle east when millions of Americans at home are going hungry and homeless each year. We still have elementary schools and highschools that look like they came out of the third world and leave their students at the third grade level by 9th grade, and yet there is always some millionaire politician being bribed by a billionaire defence CEO who would very much like it if we all cared about dropping more bombs on the middle east. And no, the "global economic order" that americans get called on to defend means nothing either when we all know who really benefits from those middle eastern oil shipments. I'd like to not be put in tens of thousands of dollars of debt just to have the luxury of life saving health care that costs people $50 in asia and nothing in the EU (unless the condition was truly fatal that would be the best case scenario because then it becomes an unfortunate coincidence that you died).

Either way, Israel won't have peace until it allows the palestinian people equal treatment and representation, either under a secular unified state or as 2 seperate fully independent states. Will Netanyahu really seek to do that though? Or will he do what the Israeli government has done for many years by throwing the Palestinians into a massive ghetto and kicking the issue down the road, just so he or his right wing successors can ask for more US aid? Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical about his intentions here.

My opinion doesn't mean much though because the US loves to prop up capitalist right leaning nations no matter what, so as long as Israel steers clear of socialism it'll always be the US' best friend, genocide or no genocide.

 

[Pessimist]

Either way, Israel won't have peace until it allows the palestinian people equal treatment and representation, either under a secular unified state or as 2 seperate fully independent states. Will Netanyahu really seek to do that though? Or will he do what the Israeli government has done for many years by throwing the Palestinians into a massive ghetto and kicking the issue down the road, just so he or his right wing successors can ask for more US aid? Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical about his intentions here.

A lot of Israelis have been trying to get rid of Netanyahu and advocate for a two-state solution, but it's definitely not a step forward in any peace process when Hamas invades Israel, murders and kidnaps hundreds of civilians. It's actually ten steps back considering the fact that most of the victims came from the secular, progressive and left-leaning kibbutzim.

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

A lot of Israelis have been trying to get rid of Netanyahu and advocate for a two-state solution, but it's definitely not a step forward in any peace process when Hamas invades Israel, murders and kidnaps hundreds of civilians. It's actually ten steps back considering the fact that most of the victims came from the secular, progressive and left-leaning kibbutzim.

I disagree, but I admittedly am probably not as well informed about Israel-Hamas relations as you likely are. Allowing palestine to exist as a seperate state is inherently risky, but it (or complete integration, which is also risky) has to be done in order for long term peace to eventually take place. The two state solution has a better chance of being implemented successfully under the current conditions. Trust has to be built between both parties over many decades of uncertainty. The only other option is a continuation of the cycle.

 

[Pessimist]

I disagree, but I admittedly am probably not as well informed about Israel-Hamas relations as you likely are. Allowing palestine to exist as a seperate state is inherently risky, but it (or complete integration, which is also risky) has to be done in order for long term peace to eventually take place. The two state solution has a better chance of being implemented successfully under the current conditions. Trust has to be built between both parties over many decades of uncertainty. The only other option is a continuation of the cycle.

How can you disagree? Even the Leader of the Opposition in the Knesset, Yair Lapid, who is only a centrist, says that Netanyahu should resign right now.

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

I disagree with the idea that the two-state solution is a bad idea. I don't like netanyahu for a number of reasons. I know there are many Israelis who have been frustrated with netanyahu and about the constitutional crisis from before last october.

 

[Disappointered]

Bad faith.

 

[Rapière]

We are dying slowly:' Palestinians are eating grass and drinking polluted water as famine looms across Gaza
Imagine defending this shit. I guess it's their fault for being born with the same skin color as a terrorist group.

 

[funeraleveryday]

Y r u saying this stuff on a suicide forum