Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Sirius]

@pane, I'm not sure of anything! I took notes when I called the gas supplier a couple months ago and my notes say he told me the tank was 20 lb. So I guess I'll just have to wait and see. But if this stupid COPD progresses any worse, I may be out of luck with N2. BTW, I am such a total fan of black cats (had to euthanize my elderly black cat several years ago), so every time I see your avatar, I get all purry.

Well, the canister does weigh, when filled, 17-20 lbs

Cylinders are hydrostatically tested on a regular (and regulated) schedule, and cannot be used/sold if they are not "in hydro," so regardless of how shabby it looks, it'll be sound. (A couple of my various cylinders look a lot worse than the one in that photo.)

As @color_me_gone says, the valve may be a different matter, but getting a leaker is pretty rare in my experience. In fact, I don't think I've had that trouble. Gas companies don't like leakers any more than the customer does, so they tend to take care of their valves.

I've heard a good way to test for slow leaks, when there's no regulator attached, is to stretch a balloon over the valve, seize it in place with a bit of twine, and see if it inflates over time. If there is a leak in the valve, you can often make an "end run" around it by attaching the regulator and making sure the regulator's flow valve is closed: any gas that leaks from the cylinder's valve will be stopped by the regulator's valve. This isn't a good long-term solution, as regulator valves are much more prone to slow leaks than cylinder valves (they're mechanically more complex), but it can sometimes do the job for a while.

To test for leaks around the regulator, where it attaches to the cylinder, squirt some soapy water around the connection and see if it bubbles.

I'm hearing that I can buy ALL that I need from Cyberweld here in the USA and do not have to get the hose, regulator from Max Dog... Can you confirm? Any intel?

 

[color_me_gone]

I am such a total fan of black cats

Me too!
Mine is 20 years old. She is still doing pretty good.
But I am not looking forward to that final day.

 

[pane]

Well, the canister does weigh, when filled, 17-20 lbs

I'm hearing that I can buy ALL that I need from Cyberweld here in the USA and do not have to get the hose, regulator from Max Dog... Can you confirm? Any intel?

Sirius, in regards to the hardware needed I recommend using an oxygen regulator with an adapter. Read this thread:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/max-dog-regulator-ridiculous-price.18831/

The comments posted by Fister will tell you the exact parts to get. You'll have to search on Google using the part numbers he gives but you'll find the needed items. There's a second thread linked to in the thread above you may also want to read.

Also for the tubing you need you can either buy oxygen tubing from Amazon or go to a local hardware store and buy a length of vinyl tubing cut to whatever length you want. I think the recommended length for this method is around 6 feet.

Incidentally, as you'll see on that thread, Fister killed himself this past weekend using the inert gas/bag method.

@pane, I'm not sure of anything! I took notes when I called the gas supplier a couple months ago and my notes say he told me the tank was 20 lb. So I guess I'll just have to wait and see. But if this stupid COPD progresses any worse, I may be out of luck with N2. BTW, I am such a total fan of black cats (had to euthanize my elderly black cat several years ago), so every time I see your avatar, I get all purry.

Eweforia I'm not sure what to tell you about dealing with the local company you contacted but here's what I recommend:

1) Go to a website called Cyberweld...(D O T)...c o m which has been recommended here on SS before. I can't link directly because of the new forum rule about posting sources.

2) In the search box type in: inert gas cylinder

3) This will bring up a list of inert gas tanks you can buy in various sizes as measured in cubic feet. 20 cubic feet is the minimum size you need for this method. You can also buy a 40- or 60-cubic foot tank that will obviously provide nitrogen for a longer period of time "just to be sure" if you'd like that. ONLY choose a tank listed as "inert gas". DO NOT get one marked "oxygen", "acetylene", etc.

4) Click on the size of tank you're interested in. On the product info page for each tank there's a dropdown menu under the word "options". Use the menu and select "Full Nitrogen". What this means is that Cyberweld will fill the tank for you with N2 then ship it directly to your house.

I hear you on black cats. I have two, a skinny little one who's very sweet and a big, fat, grumpy one.

 

[Sirius]

Sirius, in regards to the hardware needed I recommend using an oxygen regulator with an adapter. Read this thread:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/max-dog-regulator-ridiculous-price.18831/

The comments posted by Fister will tell you the exact parts to get. You'll have to search on Google using the part numbers he gives but you'll find the needed items. There's a second thread linked to in the thread above you may also want to read.

Also for the tubing you need you can either buy oxygen tubing from Amazon or go to a local hardware store and buy a length of vinyl tubing cut to whatever length you want. I think the recommended length for this method is around 6 feet.

Incidentally, as you'll see on that thread, Fister killed himself this past weekend using the inert gas/bag method.


Eweforia I'm not sure what to tell you about dealing with the local company you contacted but here's what I recommend:

1) Go to a website called Cyberweld...(D O T)...c o m which has been recommended here on SS before. I can't link directly because of the new forum rule about posting sources.

2) In the search box type in: inert gas cylinder

3) This will bring up a list of inert gas tanks you can buy in various sizes as measured in cubic feet. 20 cubic feet is the minimum size you need for this method. You can also buy a 40- or 60-cubic foot tank that will obviously provide nitrogen for a longer period of time "just to be sure" if you'd like that. ONLY choose a tank listed as "inert gas". DO NOT get one marked "oxygen", "acetylene", etc.

4) Click on the size of tank you're interested in. On the product info page for each tank there's a dropdown menu under the word "options". Use the menu and select "Full Nitrogen". What this means is that Cyberweld will fill the tank for you with N2 then ship it directly to your house.

I hear you on black cats. I have two, a skinny little one who's very sweet and a big, fat, grumpy one.

Thank you!!! I was about to buy from Max Dog regulator and hose. Order cylinder from cyber weld. But cyber claims their cylinder doesn't match Aussie regulator. Exit claims it does and not to use Cybets. Good god

 

[pane]

Thank you!!! I was about to buy from Max Dog regulator and hose. Order cylinder from cyber weld. But cyber claims their cylinder doesn't match Aussie regulator. Exit claims it does and not to use Cybets. Good god

Are you in the United States? I can only give U.S.-related info about these matters because I'm an American and don't know anything about tank and regulator details in other countries.

 

[Sirius]

Are you in the United States? I can only give U.S.-related info about these matters because I'm an American and don't know anything about tank and regulator details in other countries.

Yes, I'm in the USA

 

[MG_39]

Why Ar (Argon) might be a less good choice of gas.

In this post he get the feeling that it triggers his hypercapnic alarm, which is impossible. But I think it's because Ar is denser than N2 and HE, and therefore give that impression.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-my-hc-alarm-but-i-dont-test-co2-in-it.14214/

In this post the problem is that the bag doesn't fill up as it should, which might have to do with the gas weight (Ar is heavier than air)

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/exit-bag-failure.17041/

I know there are people who have succeeded with Argon, but I think N2 is a better choice.
Thought about solutions for stopping SI? Solutions for tying hands after pulling the bag down. It has to be done rather quick of course.

 

[Sirius]

Why Ar (Argon) might be a less good choice of gas.

In this post he get the feeling that it triggers his hypercapnic alarm, which is impossible. But I think it's because Ar is denser than N2 and HE, and therefore give that impression.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-my-hc-alarm-but-i-dont-test-co2-in-it.14214/

In this post the problem is that the bag doesn't fill up as it should, which might have to do with the gas weight (Ar is heavier than air)

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/exit-bag-failure.17041/

I know there are people who have succeeded with Argon, but I think N2 is a better choice.
Thought about solutions for stopping SI? Solutions for tying hands after pulling the bag down. It has to be done rather quick of course.

Wonder if the subject placed the gas intake tube to bag at TOP of bag, thus forcing the O2( lighter) out bottom of bag???

 

[MG_39]

I think this is something that needs a solution. What's a good solution for tying hands after pulling down the bag?
Of course a lot of those cases are probably because they didn't follow the instructions.(Like not enough gas, and maybe closed the bag to tight around the neck) But I can also see a scenario where someone starts to breath very intense in a semi-conscious state and inhale co2 which trigger a hypercapnic alarm.


"there have been reports of people who have tried it and just woken up with a really bad headache – they tore the hood off when they were in a state of semi-consciousness, because their body was trying to fight for life."

I Survived Helium Suicide

It killed more people than ecstasy, weed, plant food and GHB last year.

www.vice.com

 

[color_me_gone]

I'd like to remind everybody that read the article "I survived Helium Suicide" posted above, that it was written in 2012, when use of helium to ctb was extremely popular. In 2015, manufacturers who produce helium tanks for inflating balloons now mix 20% air with the helium, so it is not possible to ctb with that type of helium anymore.

 

[MG_39]

@TiredHorse

Maybe you can help me out with two questions. Since I'm from Europe, there is a thing I can't figure out.

I have a N2-cylinder 5L/200Bar. And it would be around 1000 liter correct? (5*200/1013=0,9872)

When I look at the EU-regulator from maxdog it shows full at 2000psi. And 200bar = 2900psi. Would this regulator work? My guess is yes, but just wan't your opinion.

 

[MG_39]

It isn't as simple as that. Someone here did a test a few months ago: the ratio varies wildly depending on the manufacturer of the regulator.

Which would mean you have to use the Maxdog regulator? or how do you guarantee the correct flow?

 

[LMLN]

I'd like to remind everybody that read the article "I survived Helium Suicide" posted above, that it was written in 2012, when use of helium to ctb was extremely popular. In 2015, manufacturers who produce helium tanks for inflating balloons now mix 20% air with the helium, so it is not possible to ctb with that type of helium anymore.

I think in this article, he failed because his friend called the police. But you are correct, balloon type helium is mixed with oxygen now.

 

[Lookingforabus]

Which would mean you have to use the Maxdog regulator? or how do you guarantee the correct flow?

I'm planning to use an insert has air flow meter, rather than a regulator. Still have to test it to make sure it keeps a constant (or at least sufficient) rate as pressure in the tank drops.

If not, two stage regulators are available, and I've found some PSI to flow rate calculators online, so a more expensive attachment and some math might get me there.

 

[MG_39]

I think the sitting position is something that needs to be discussed.

Sitting slightly reclined in a chair seems recommended. But should your head touch the chair?

I see two scenarios here.

1. Sitting slightly reclined in a chair without head touching the chair: You can't involuntarily rub your head/the bag against the chair and dislodge it. But what happens when you consciousness? your head might fall in the same position where your tube is placed, and bend it so the flow of inert gas stops. The outcome of this could be horrible.

2. Sitting slightly reclined in a chair with head touching: You risk to dislodge the bag position (just like if you lay in bed) But your head most likely don't fall forward or to the sides where you have your tube. You also risk to tension the bag around your neck when stretched against something.

 

[Lilanel]

Hello everyone. I'm working on assembling my exit bag. Is there a way to check the hose for leaks where it is attached to the regulator? I had to press very hard to get it on, and I'm worried about the possibility of leakage.

 

[Lookingforabus]

Hello everyone. I'm working on assembling my exit bag. Is there a way to check the hose for leaks where it is attached to the regulator? I had to press very hard to get it on, and I'm worried about the possibility of leakage.

Basically, you apply a liquid over top the edge of the connection and see if you get bubbles when gas is flowing. There are specific liquids used for professional use (labs, welding shops, etc.), but I've seen soapy water suggested around here, and that seems like it should work.

 

[LMLN]

I have everything for this method, but I'm concerned about waking up after passing out. From what I can gather, it is from removing the bag while unconscious. I also hear of people waking up in other parts of the room. I have been reading accounts of failures via a web search for posts and news articles.
Any thoughts beyond making sure set up is correct, and maybe restraints of some kind? I wonder if there is some excess CO2 and/or O2 in the bag causing this problem. If I am unconscious, I should not be able to move, correct?

 

[Lookingforabus]

I have everything for this method, but I'm concerned about waking up after passing out. From what I can gather, it is from removing the bag while unconscious. I also hear of people waking up in other parts of the room. I have been reading accounts of failures via a web search for posts and news articles.
Any thoughts beyond making sure set up is correct, and maybe restraints of some kind? I wonder if there is some excess CO2 and/or O2 in the bag causing this problem. If I am unconscious, I should not be able to move, correct?

Death spasms are a thing. I'll be putting my each of my forearms under a bungie cord loop, that oughta keep any unconcious movements from messing it up.

 

[Sirius]

I have everything for this method, but I'm concerned about waking up after passing out. From what I can gather, it is from removing the bag while unconscious. I also hear of people waking up in other parts of the room. I have been reading accounts of failures via a web search for posts and news articles.
Any thoughts beyond making sure set up is correct, and maybe restraints of some kind? I wonder if there is some excess CO2 and/or O2 in the bag causing this problem. If I am unconscious, I should not be able to move, correct?

I have never seen that !!!! I've seen little, jerking spasms like when you fall asleep quickly and dream you've slipped on ice or something..But thats it

 

[MG_39]

I have never seen that !!!! I've seen little, jerking spasms like when you fall asleep quickly and dream you've slipped on ice or something..But thats it

Isn't it common for people to not being able to breath as they should, and also panic and remove the bag before unconscious? I mean even if you really wan't to end it, and are in piece with that. You still have your brains natural si, and also you can be scared that the method won't work, which both can cause problems.

 

[Lookingforabus]

Isn't it common for people to not being able to breath as they should, and also panic and remove the bag before unconscious? I mean even if you really wan't to end it, and are in piece with that. You still have your brains natural si, and also you can be scared that the method won't work, which both can cause problems.

It reportedly happens, but based on the reported number of deaths versus the reported number of survivals, it's rather rare. The right-to-die folks recommend this method for a reason. Data suggests that it takes less than a minute to go unconcious in a 0 oxygen environment (and usually about 30 seconds), which is pretty quick. Death spams and unconcious movements are also generally undirected and involuntary (you can watch the death spasms of people who've posted videos of their hanging deaths online), so there isn't a real risk of your body ripping off the bag. Those kind of failures are believed to be a result of falling over or spasming hard enough to dislodge the bag, not rip it off... which is why they recommend sitting up in a sturdy chair that won't get knocked over, and that can't be fallen out of, rather than lying down or just sitting on the floor.

Still, this would be why I've got bungies to put my hands under. Seems prudent, just in case.

 

[pane]

Isn't it common for people to not being able to breath as they should, and also panic and remove the bag before unconscious? I mean even if you really wan't to end it, and are in piece with that. You still have your brains natural si, and also you can be scared that the method won't work, which both can cause problems.

The whole point of using an inert gas like nitrogen is that it DOESN'T trigger the hypercapnic response. This is caused by the build-up of carbon dioxide in the body and/or in the air immediately around you that you're breathing, creating the sensation of "not getting any air" which induces a panic response in people.

By using an inert gas what you're doing essentially is creating an oxygen-free environment around your head inside the bag.

As I understand it, the human body can't detect the lack of oxygen in the surrounding air. The inert gas/bag method is based on that fact and consequently if you do everything right you'll go unconscious a few moments after pulling down the bag over your head and die 5-20 minutes later on average.

What Sirius is referring to are minor jerking and twitching movements the body naturally makes as part of the death process. I believe Sirius said he was a "facilitator" for Exit many years ago and witnessed several suicides.

 

[MG_39]

The whole point of using an inert gas like nitrogen is that it DOESN'T trigger the hypercapnic response. This is caused by the build-up of carbon dioxide in the body and/or in the air immediately around you that you're breathing, creating the sensation of "not getting any air" which induces a panic response in people.

By using an inert gas what you're doing essentially is creating an oxygen-free environment around your head inside the bag.

As I understand it, the human body can't detect the lack of oxygen in the surrounding air. The inert gas/bag method is based on that fact and consequently if you do everything right you'll go unconscious a few moments after pulling down the bag over your head and die 5-20 minutes later on average.

What Sirius is referring to are minor jerking and twitching movements the body naturally makes as part of the death process. I believe Sirius said he was a "facilitator" for Exit many years ago and witnessed several suicides.

Yes I do fully understand how this method works. And it's not the panic from Co2-retention i'm talking about. I'm talking about the panic that you now that you breathing "air" without oxygen and you are going to die (or fail with brain damage = what your brain tell you)

 

[Hush Sweet Charlotte]

This may be of interest to those worried about whether COPD / lung difficulties completely exclude one from using the process. If you scroll halfway down the page someone called Fredo asks about it in relation to his own COPD. It's the blog by Derek Humphry the author of Final Exit:

Blog Archives | Assisted-Dying Blog

Previous blog postings for January 2005 to January 2006 are at http://self-deliverance.blogspot.com/

assisted-dying.org

'It's impossible, scientifically or medically, to give a cast-iron answer to your question. But this is what colleagues in the movement who help a lot of people have told me from experience:
Using inhalation of helium or nitrogen for self-deliverance from COPD is as effective as with other medical conditions. Of course, it has to be done — as always — very carefully in the prescribed method.'

I wonder if Dr PN says it shouldn't be used by those with serious lung issues is due to the fact he is selling fairly small N cyclinders that may not provide enough gas due to the process taking longer, which could also lead to it not being as peaceful as desired (due to panic and SI having much more time to kick in). If you can endure a longer time to unconsciousness it seems it will still work.
This may be of interest to those worried about whether COPD / lung difficulties completely exclude one from using the process. If you scroll halfway down the page someone called Fredo asks about it in relation to his own COPD. It's the blog by Derek Humphry the author of Final Exit:

Blog Archives | Assisted-Dying Blog

Previous blog postings for January 2005 to January 2006 are at http://self-deliverance.blogspot.com/

assisted-dying.org

'It's impossible, scientifically or medically, to give a cast-iron answer to your question. But this is what colleagues in the movement who help a lot of people have told me from experience:
Using inhalation of helium or nitrogen for self-deliverance from COPD is as effective as with other medical conditions. Of course, it has to be done — as always — very carefully in the prescribed method.'

I wonder if Dr PN says it shouldn't be used by those with serious lung issues is due to the fact he is selling fairly small N cyclinders that may not provide enough gas due to the process taking longer, which could also lead to it not being as peaceful as desired (due to panic and SI having much more time to kick in). If you can endure a longer time to unconsciousness it seems it will still work.

 

[pane]

This may be of interest to those worried about whether COPD / lung difficulties completely exclude one from using the process. If you scroll halfway down the page someone called Fredo asks about it in relation to his own COPD. It's the blog by Derek Humphry the author of Final Exit:

Blog Archives | Assisted-Dying Blog

Previous blog postings for January 2005 to January 2006 are at http://self-deliverance.blogspot.com/

assisted-dying.org

'It's impossible, scientifically or medically, to give a cast-iron answer to your question. But this is what colleagues in the movement who help a lot of people have told me from experience:
Using inhalation of helium or nitrogen for self-deliverance from COPD is as effective as with other medical conditions. Of course, it has to be done — as always — very carefully in the prescribed method.'

I wonder if Dr PN says it shouldn't be used by those with serious lung issues is due to the fact he is selling fairly small N cyclinders that may not provide enough gas due to the process taking longer, which could also lead to it not being as peaceful as desired (due to panic and SI having much more time to kick in). If you can endure a longer time to unconsciousness it seems it will still work.

I'm not sure the smaller tank vs. bigger tank is an issue because if done properly the inert gas is supposed to induce unconsciousness within several moments of pulling the exit bag down over your head, eventually putting you in a coma due to lack of oxygen to the brain then leading to death within 5-30 minutes.

 

[hersheybar]

How much extra gas would it take to fill the cabin of a car. (98 grand marquis) starting to think that itll be easier than doing the bag

 

[MG_39]

How much extra gas would it take to fill the cabin of a car. (98 grand marquis) starting to think that itll be easier than doing the bag

It wouldn't be possible, you would have to find a way to make the cabin air tight (not possible) and also flush the car of all oxygen before filling it with inert gas.
According to PPe "consciousness is rapidly lost within one or two breaths." According to people in this thread, it doesn't seem like this is common. Which also worries me a little, what other things in PPe regarding this method can't i really be sure of?

 

[Sirius]

The whole point of using an inert gas like nitrogen is that it DOESN'T trigger the hypercapnic response. This is caused by the build-up of carbon dioxide in the body and/or in the air immediately around you that you're breathing, creating the sensation of "not getting any air" which induces a panic response in people.

By using an inert gas what you're doing essentially is creating an oxygen-free environment around your head inside the bag.

As I understand it, the human body can't detect the lack of oxygen in the surrounding air. The inert gas/bag method is based on that fact and consequently if you do everything right you'll go unconscious a few moments after pulling down the bag over your head and die 5-20 minutes later on average.

What Sirius is referring to are minor jerking and twitching movements the body naturally makes as part of the death process. I believe Sirius said he was a "facilitator" for Exit many years ago and witnessed several suicides.

@pane you are correct...except I'm a chick.. Never saw wild, jerking, panicked movements. One time was present when the patient looked unconscious, but awoke (still no panic) turned out hood had small perforations that allowed too much ( now you can see how a minute amount can affect) . Once a new hood was obtained-normal and predictable

This may be of interest to those worried about whether COPD / lung difficulties completely exclude one from using the process. If you scroll halfway down the page someone called Fredo asks about it in relation to his own COPD. It's the blog by Derek Humphry the author of Final Exit:

Blog Archives | Assisted-Dying Blog

Previous blog postings for January 2005 to January 2006 are at http://self-deliverance.blogspot.com/

assisted-dying.org

'It's impossible, scientifically or medically, to give a cast-iron answer to your question. But this is what colleagues in the movement who help a lot of people have told me from experience:
Using inhalation of helium or nitrogen for self-deliverance from COPD is as effective as with other medical conditions. Of course, it has to be done — as always — very carefully in the prescribed method.'

I wonder if Dr PN says it shouldn't be used by those with serious lung issues is due to the fact he is selling fairly small N cyclinders that may not provide enough gas due to the process taking longer, which could also lead to it not being as peaceful as desired (due to panic and SI having much more time to kick in). If you can endure a longer time to unconsciousness it seems it will still work.
This may be of interest to those worried about whether COPD / lung difficulties completely exclude one from using the process. If you scroll halfway down the page someone called Fredo asks about it in relation to his own COPD. It's the blog by Derek Humphry the author of Final Exit:

Blog Archives | Assisted-Dying Blog

Previous blog postings for January 2005 to January 2006 are at http://self-deliverance.blogspot.com/

assisted-dying.org

'It's impossible, scientifically or medically, to give a cast-iron answer to your question. But this is what colleagues in the movement who help a lot of people have told me from experience:
Using inhalation of helium or nitrogen for self-deliverance from COPD is as effective as with other medical conditions. Of course, it has to be done — as always — very carefully in the prescribed method.'

I wonder if Dr PN says it shouldn't be used by those with serious lung issues is due to the fact he is selling fairly small N cyclinders that may not provide enough gas due to the process taking longer, which could also lead to it not being as peaceful as desired (due to panic and SI having much more time to kick in). If you can endure a longer time to unconsciousness it seems it will still work.

Let us be mindful that despite the cooperation between the 2 entities, there are disagreements between Exit International and Final Exit Network. That blog is circa 2006 before there were some "issues" with Pulmonary patients.

 

[pane]

@pane you are correct...except I'm a chick.

Thank you for informing me of your chick-ness.