Drugs and exit bag

[Nickreading]

So i think that using drugs and then an exit bag is a good idea, I just don't know about the design. Would a garbage bag and tape work?

 

[SomewhatLoved]

I assume the exit bag is a "failsafe" for if the drugs don't work? In that case it doesn't necessarily have to be a perfect seal in the same way you might want it to be if you were CTBing with inert gas. With gas you want as close to a perfect seal as possible so you can get a near 100% concentration of (for example) nitrogen in the space. But with drugs being used, you just need there to be limited oxygen so that after you lose consciousness you use up the O2 and end up suffocating while you're ODing. I imagine for this use even small imperfections in the bag should be fine - such a small amount would get in and out, I doubt it would be enough air movement to sustain life.

What I would do in this situation is take two bags, put one inside the other, and then tape them together around the opening edge. Then, when you're ready, tape the "double bag" to your neck as you normally would otherwise. This would further restrict air movement through any imperfections in the bags.

Size of the bag is important, though. I would try to use a smaller bag that you might find in a garbage bin in the bathroom or bedroom. A larger garbage bag means a bigger air reservoir. If you were to use a larger bag I suppose you could trim it to be shallower though.

 

[Nickreading]

I assume the exit bag is a "failsafe" for if the drugs don't work? In that case it doesn't necessarily have to be a perfect seal in the same way you might want it to be if you were CTBing with inert gas. With gas you want as close to a perfect seal as possible so you can get a near 100% concentration of (for example) nitrogen in the space. But with drugs being used, you just need there to be limited oxygen so that after you lose consciousness you use up the O2 and end up suffocating while you're ODing. I imagine for this use even small imperfections in the bag should be fine - such a small amount would get in and out, I doubt it would be enough air movement to sustain life.

What I would do in this situation is take two bags, put one inside the other, and then tape them together around the opening edge. Then, when you're ready, tape the "double bag" to your neck as you normally would otherwise. This would further restrict air movement through any imperfections in the bags.

Size of the bag is important, though. I would try to use a smaller bag that you might find in a garbage bin in the bathroom or bedroom. A larger garbage bag means a bigger air reservoir. If you were to use a larger bag I suppose you could trim it to be shallower though.

Someone mentioned the heavens gate mass suicide on here. I looked it up and they drank vodka and put phenobarbital in pudding and ate it and then put bags over their heads. Would the same thing work with street fentanyl or would I vomit that up?

 

[SomewhatLoved]

Someone mentioned the heavens gate mass suicide on here. I looked it up and they drank vodka and put phenobarbital in pudding and ate it and then put bags over their heads. Would the same thing work with street fentanyl or would I vomit that up?

There's always risk of vomiting, part of the benefit of injecting drugs to euthanize yourself in my mind is the idea that once it's in there's nothing anyone can do to get it out. Resuscitation would become damage control, whereas if you swallowed it they could potentially pump your stomach (if they respond soon enough), give you charcoal, or other things to neutralize the substance/prevent absorption. You have to consider that there's different mechanisms for vomiting, too. For example. certain medications (or formulations) can irritate the stomach. NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs), for example, can cause stomach ulcers and so when people swallow a lot of tylenol or advil, for this reason you vomit because your stomach becomes irritated.

I'm honestly really not sure if I can answer this, because almost all metrics of fentanyl lethal dosage are for IV use. Fentanyl is not a drug which is generally taken orally. That being said, you should consider that going through the digestive system you will need more considering it takes much longer to absorb compared to IV, and not 100% of what you take will be absorbed. It's not like if you were to inject it and you would near-instantly get a huge hit of it. I still doubt that you would need such a large amount, to the point that your stomach would become irritated to the extent of vomiting. However, you want to consider for most people suicide can be an anxious or worrisome process and your mindset may cause or worsen nausea and vomiting.

I doubt you would vomit, but, it would also be hard to know how much you need as this isn't necessarily a well-researched way of taking fentanyl, even in the wider medical community beyond CTBers. I've never heard of people taking fentanyl orally, it's really only used in surgeries or emergency pain management - meaning it needs to be strong and have a fast effect. For this reason clinicians usually give it IV.

 

[Nickreading]

There's always risk of vomiting, part of the benefit of injecting drugs to euthanize yourself in my mind is the idea that once it's in there's nothing anyone can do to get it out. Resuscitation would become damage control, whereas if you swallowed it they could potentially pump your stomach (if they respond soon enough), give you charcoal, or other things to neutralize the substance/prevent absorption. You have to consider that there's different mechanisms for vomiting, too. For example. certain medications (or formulations) can irritate the stomach. NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs), for example, can cause stomach ulcers and so when people swallow a lot of tylenol or advil, for this reason you vomit because your stomach becomes irritated.

I'm honestly really not sure if I can answer this, because almost all metrics of fentanyl lethal dosage are for IV use. Fentanyl is not a drug which is generally taken orally. That being said, you should consider that going through the digestive system you will need more considering it takes much longer to absorb compared to IV, and not 100% of what you take will be absorbed. It's not like if you were to inject it and you would near-instantly get a huge hit of it. I still doubt that you would need such a large amount, to the point that your stomach would become irritated to the extent of vomiting. However, you want to consider for most people suicide can be an anxious or worrisome process and your mindset may cause or worsen nausea and vomiting.

I doubt you would vomit, but, it would also be hard to know how much you need as this isn't necessarily a well-researched way of taking fentanyl, even in the wider medical community beyond CTBers. I've never heard of people taking fentanyl orally, it's really only used in surgeries or emergency pain management - meaning it needs to be strong and have a fast effect. For this reason clinicians usually give it IV.

I guess IV is the way to go then. I don't have any experience with injection, though. I'm sure there's instructions online. Thing is, with the alcohol and the exit bag, I think that will all be enough. The trick would be to get the stuff in me, then put the bag over my head without passing out first. I'd like to be able to measure twice, cut once, but you know...

 

[SomewhatLoved]

I guess IV is the way to go then. I don't have any experience with injection, though. I'm sure there's instructions online. Thing is, with the alcohol and the exit bag, I think that will all be enough. The trick would be to get the stuff in me, then put the bag over my head without passing out first. I'd like to be able to measure twice, cut once, but you know...

Yes I agree.

If you were doing exit bag you also wouldn't have to OD to the point of respiratory arrest. It's not as much of an exact science I would say, it's more about breaking down inhibition and reflex to pull the bag off of your head.

Just make sure the bag is secured well. Often when you go hypoxic you flail around, and I've read threads where people talk about how with inert gas/exit bag they unintentionally knock over a gas tank and disconnect it from the system or somehow dislodge their mask/hood. Something to consider.