Asacschrader33
Student
- May 6, 2019
- 158
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Oh I see we are discussing abortion also.
I like this debate so let me give you my opinion and maybe some people who have an opposing view can tell me where they disagree or answer some of my questions.
Pretty much I am against abortion. The only exception for me would be rape/medical issues although that would perhaps be difficult to apply.
Abortions because of rape/medical issues is a very very small percentage of all abortions though so are we really going to kill all those babies just so we can make it available for those who got raped/medical issues (assuming an exception for it isn't possible although it absolutely should be)? The obvious answer would be no.
Many pro abortion people use the argument that it is their body and they decide what to do with it. I disagree. I don't think it is their body. To me it becomes a seperate life at conception.
Again many would disagree with that so the big question then becomes when does life start and what is a deciding factor in it being a life at that certain point?
I like this debate so let me give you my opinion and maybe some people who have an opposing view can tell me where they disagree or answer some of my questions.
Pretty much I am against abortion. The only exception for me would be rape/medical issues although that would perhaps be difficult to apply.
Abortions because of rape/medical issues is a very very small percentage of all abortions though so are we really going to kill all those babies just so we can make it available for those who got raped/medical issues (assuming an exception for it isn't possible although it absolutely should be)? The obvious answer would be no.
Many pro abortion people use the argument that it is their body and they decide what to do with it. I disagree. I don't think it is their body. To me it becomes a seperate life at conception.
Again many would disagree with that so the big question then becomes when does life start and what is a deciding factor in it being a life at that certain point?
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Severen
Enlightened
- Jun 30, 2018
- 1,819
I would much rather want to see a Democrat or a more competent Republican as president. I also really don't appreciate his views on a wide array of things.
That being said the Trump administration is not all bad. Unemployment rate is at a steady decline, the number of jobs are increasing and the economy is growing. These are all things that Trump promised. You could argue that this is also a result of a general growth in large parts of the world economy, but nonetheless; growth is growth.
Now I really believe we need to think about how we adress the Trump administration. You mentioned in a comment that Trump is "basically like Adolf Hitler".
No he's not and he's not anywhere close to Hitler or the Nazis. I'd go as far as to say that this rhetoric is just as harmful as the one being used by Trump. It stigmatizes the some 46% of voters that voted for him.
Take a look at this graph:
When I wrote working-class, I should have written middle-class, which is where the bulk of Trump voters are. While the rest of the world has gotten richer, these people have not experienced any sort of income growth in the past decade.
Why didn't they choose to vote Hillary or Ted Cruz you ask? Because with them, they would just be seeing a continuation of this trend. These people were hopless, and so they voted for someone radically different. No more trading with the Chinese government, no more spending money in the middle east and no more immigrants. These people wanted a better economic future for them and their kids.
Can Trump give them that? I doubt it, but I think it's time we talk about the 63 million people that voted for Trump, instead of Trump as a character.
You say Trump is not anywhere close to Hitler. But Hitler would not have been anywhere close to Hitler, if he didn't have all that power... Well Trump doesn't have all that power... So you can't just look at his actions and say, he is nothing like Hitler. And when it comes to my thoughts on this man, it doesn't really do anything harmful other than make Trump supporters look foolish. But you'd have to be very dense to look at all Trump supporters as if they are Nazis. That would require a lot of paranoia on one's part. Who hasn't been foolish at one point or another in their lives? And if you studied the rise and the fall of the Third Reich, you will also see that Hitler did a lot of good things for the Nazis as well. He created jobs. Made the economy better. He built highways all over the country. He gave the citizens, free cars etc... He brought back family values... He made the Germans feel good about themselves again after losing WW I and getting treated like a bitch by Great Britain and France... The Weimar Republic was a complete shit show. Really, when I look for evil, I don't pay attention to the sheep but to the shepherd. If I was a Allied soldier in WW II and captured a 16 year old German soldier, I wouldn't beat him up and shoot him or starve him or some shit like he is epitome of pure evil. I'd just tell him, in the future, don't be so fucking gullible, next time.
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Ruffian
Jumpin Jack Flash, it’s a gas gas gas
- Jan 16, 2019
- 696
Good points. I have difficulty understanding how governments and economics work - especially globally. I was a good student when I was in school, but I struggled with these subjects a lot. I've been trying to learn more as an adult, so I appreciate these comments - makes me want to do more research. I'm in the US & I even have to read a lot before I vote. I have contacted my state & Federal level governments and put my true name out there for things I believe. I've been contacted by a Senator's office for something that really surprised them. I don't want to go into it, but they thought it was a little trivial. I knew it wasn't to me or a lot of people. I do what I can to participate and be informed in the US. I have been feeling a little better lately - this site has made me contemplate so many issues. If I end up sticking it out longer, I want to learn as much as I can about different governments. Religions are much easier for me to comprehend for some reason. That is a whole other infuriating topic of discussions for me because of all the intolerance of them or the freedom to be atheist in the US. It's horrible - Trump is bad enough, but to me Pence would be even worse. Thanks. again for your candid response.
Severen
Enlightened
- Jun 30, 2018
- 1,819
Yeah, I don't get why so many anti Trump people want him impeached. Do they not realize, that Pence would be 1000 times worse?
Tortured_empath
Arcanist
- Apr 7, 2019
- 463
If you're insinuating that Trump's right-wing policies could eventually look like Hitler's, you're using a slippery-slope argument. Is Bernie Sanders potentially like Joseph Stalin because he wants to increase taxes? Trump is a populist, Trump is right-wing and Trump is a good demagogue. A lot of other people have been these things without being Nazis.
I can't tell you how Trump would be if he had Hitler's amount of power, it probably wouldn't be pretty, but he dosen't, he hasn't tried to gain dictatorship-like power yet and I doubt he'll be able to.
The Nazis were deeply authoritatian and facist in terms of view on government. Trump is neither.
Also, economic growth and Nazism aren't mutually exclusive.
I get where you're coming from, his views on immigrants and international politics also make me uneasy, but your pretty extravagant comparison needs more justification than a 'what-if'. Sure it makes Trump supporters look stupid, but they are not stupid. They are real people with real concerns.
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Ruffian
Jumpin Jack Flash, it’s a gas gas gas
- Jan 16, 2019
- 696
Ugh. Let me chime in this please. I am pro-choice, but I think choice needs to be thought about way before conception. I hate pro-lifers more because of their view of abstaining. I starting being sexually active VERY young for my time, but old enough to go Planned Parenthood without consent. I simply never wanted children or to be pregnant. I have never been a wife or a mother, and I'm 51. I will gladly stand by your right to a abort a fetus, but I just question why pulling out, condoms, diaphragms etc, weren't options. no one I've known who had abortions used birth-control. I know accidents happen, and of course rape & incest should be no-brainers. I know it's different now, but there's enough information on the internet to compromise & find a better method for birth-control. That morning after pill. also should be an option for anyone at any age as well. That wasn't even invented in my time. I never knew about anti-natalism until now, but I have to say that's me. I have been harassed more about my choices to remain unmarried (but living with my bf) or just single and sport fucking than anything else in my life. It is annoying AF. I wasn't gay, infertile, or had "issues" with motherhood, ( even though my shrink at the time projected a whole bunch of counter-transference at me over it.) It makes me angry to this day.
Edit: I was also told by people who had abortions and read enough to know that the whole process was traumatizing to them, so I feel for the mothers even more than a bunch of cells if I really think deeply about it.
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Severen
Enlightened
- Jun 30, 2018
- 1,819
No, I'm not guilty of any logical fallacies because all you have to do is observe the guy. Just because you can't see the red flags doesn't mean, they are not there. It's obvious Bernie Sanders is nothing like Joseph Stalin because you can instantly tell if someone is like Joseph Stalin or not... People like that are quite obvious to spot and that is why powerful people in Stalin's social circle didn't want him to have too much power... They knew him, well enough. So Stalin had to take what he wanted by force. And Trump is only right wing from a myopic American viewpoint. In reality, the Democrats are right wing and the Republics are right wing extremists... How come Trump hasn't tried to gain dictatorship like power? Well because he can't... Even though Republicans control most of the U.S. government, most Republicans don't like him. And none of the Democrats like him. And the USA is a very authoritarian country and a fascist one as well. Have you ever lived outside of the USA? It's hard to objectively see what kind of country you live in, all your life because you can't compare your country with another country that is not authoritarian and fascist...
Tortured_empath
Arcanist
- Apr 7, 2019
- 463
I'm European. Trump is by no means phenomenon exclusive to the US. Trump is alt-right from a every point of view, and the alt-right is growing all around the world, most of all here in Europe. It's a real issue, but it's not one that can be solved by discrediting them as Nazis.
Whether Trump dosen't want to or is not able to become a dictator is irrelevant, because he's not. If he begins to, then it would be relevant. The US has their democratic issues, but they're not facist, they're stil very liberal.
I acknowledge that Trump is skilled at appealing to his demographic (like many others), but Hitler talked about "untermenschen" and "übermenschen" while Trump talks about tax breaks and grabbing women by their genitals.
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Severen
Enlightened
- Jun 30, 2018
- 1,819
Fascism doesn't necessarily mean Nazi Germany. You can be a fascist country without being Nazi Germany. Nazi Germany is basically the final product of fascism. And of course, he can't talk about "untermenschen" and "übermenschen" because he simply does not have the power to do so... He's just a president. He has to deal with other branches of the government. And in 2019, the majority of Americans would not be cool with such language. The Holocaust has left a bitter taste in most people's mouths... So instead, someone with a Hitler like agenda would never use words like that but instead words that are more...politically correct. I'm looking to the future, not the present. And Trump may never have Hitler's power and just retire soon one day... But that's only because it simply wasn't an option available to him. But these past years, have definitely pushed the USA in a direction, where someone like Trump could gain such power in the future, very easily. They say Rome wasn't built in a day. Well turning a country like the USA into the 21st century version of Nazi Germany is going to take some time. But it's not really hard. The USA already has successfully brainwashed Americans into hating groups of innocent people. So it would be child's play in the future.
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any%
Student
- May 2, 2019
- 168
Regarding the abortion thing and jerking off: It is not fair to compare a fetus, which is a complex growing multicellular organism to a haploid germ cell (sperm or eggs from the human female to include that). When you are jerking off you are not killing anything, you are simply wasting your bodies resources. When you abort a fetus (I am not talking about the 2,4,8,16,32,64...etc-cell stages obviously) you kill off a diploid living and developing organism. Just to set this bad comparison straight, because I heard this argument from way too many people in my life already. By that I am not saying anything against or for abortion, I simply state the biological facts so far represented in science with regards to said comparison.
Severen
Enlightened
- Jun 30, 2018
- 1,819
So a fetus is more advanced than sperm? That still doesn't make a fetus, a human being.
Tortured_empath
Arcanist
- Apr 7, 2019
- 463
Severen
Enlightened
- Jun 30, 2018
- 1,819
So every time, someone brings up climate change and tells people what will happen in the future, they are guilty of the slippery slope fallacy?
Tortured_empath
Arcanist
- Apr 7, 2019
- 463
No, because that's an objective truth. Your hypothesis is a subjective comparison.
The only way I could see the US ending up as WWII Germany is if these 63 million people are not taken seriously, and the people they elect are neglected as Nazis.
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any%
Student
- May 2, 2019
- 168
I am not sure if you are serious or if you want to pull some bad jokes on me. I hope you are joking because I dont even know where to start. To answer your question: Yes. I do not know your education but it seems lacking in the biology department for sure & I do not want to be mean by saying that. Just the question itself "A fetus is more advanced than sperm?" is ridiculous, how does one even come up with such ideas? You are comparing apples and cars (to make the old saying more intense). It is like asking "So my older sister will always be older than me?" I think we speak of different things even though we use the same terms and I would say you do neither understand the term fetus nor sperm correctly.
About your other overly confident statement "That still doesn't make a fetus, a human being", I may sound arrogant but I do not care, because with that sentence you just showed that you are talking out of your ***. What you are stating is that women on this planet do not give birth to human beings. So you are also implying that whatever pops out of their vaginas at birth is not a human being which is a ludicrous thing to say. One refers to a "fetus" after roughly the first ~8 weeks which is called the embryogenesis, followed by the fetogenesis or also called fetal period which officially ends with the birth, thus ofc is a fetus a human being, because a fetus also has basically already everything what you have (except for experience, neuromodulation and some maturation obviously etc...).
Maybe you talk about embryos? I have no idea, but it seems like neither have you.
It is more advanced than sperm but not more than, say, a rat or a pig. Yet most pro-lifers don't seem too bothered by killing the latter two. Thus it seems that they are mostly concerned with the potential to become a human being that lies in a fetus, and in that sense a sperm cell and a developed fetus are not that different. They both contain the potential for human life.
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any%
Student
- May 2, 2019
- 168
I totally agree with you with the double moral on killing animals. However, you missed my point that a fetus is human life already and basically only grows because it already has the inner organs, eye- and ear-system, a nervous system, it has the basics of everything and simply "matures" until birth. Being concerned about sperm cells because of their potential for human life is non-sense, then you would also have to be guilty of "assisted murder" because you dont get all the women pregnant that currently have their egg ready! Furthermore a sperm cell alone has no potential at all whereas any fetus alone has the full potential. What I think is more appropriate is to discuss what embryonal stages can be considered as human life. I would say (but this is subjective) a cell batch of 8 cells is no human being for me yet, whereas a 3 month old fetus is a human being for me, because the only thing that seperates it from the baby at birth is simply somatic growth. I feel it is just important to point that out that any fetus is already a "bonsai-baby" and is simply growing.
But to the political aspect I think it is in certain cases like incest and rape justified to do an abortion even up to 3 months (which is the medicinal recommendation). Also I would not encourage it but wouldnt be concerned at all if you abort in the first days after the conception, because as I said the "baby" is basically just a batch of a few cells.
brbr
Member
- May 2, 2019
- 39
Severen
Enlightened
- Jun 30, 2018
- 1,819
It's also an objective truth when you look at the writing on the wall and see where the USA is heading. And of course, it would be very difficult for a European to see the writing on the wall. Just like it would be hard for an American to see such things in a European country.
A pig or a cow is a lot more advanced than a fetus. But off they go into the slaughterhouse to die in one of the most horrible ways possible. And I don't really care about pigs or cows dying. Because I understand, that humans are omnivores who need to eat meat once in awhile. It's ridiculous though that some people eat meat like there is no tomorrow. But anyway, death is essential sometimes if people want what is best for humanity. And it's a shame, too many people still see death as something negative, when in reality, death is the release of life from a prison of bone, blood and flesh. The Christian indoctrination has been etched deep.
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Johnnythefox
Que sera sera
- Nov 11, 2018
- 3,129
throwaway123
Hell0
- Aug 5, 2018
- 1,446
Why did you have to bring politics into this.....
Johnnythefox
Que sera sera
- Nov 11, 2018
- 3,129
DONALD TRUMP SNORTED ADDERALL ON 'THE APPRENTICE' Set.
I wasn't aware of this till a couple of days ago, also going by his output on twitter and performance in public, in all seriousness it wouldn't surprise me if he has early onset dementia.
DONALD TRUMP SNORTED ADDERALL
I wasn't aware of this till a couple of days ago, also going by his output on twitter and performance in public, in all seriousness it wouldn't surprise me if he has early onset dementia.
DONALD TRUMP SNORTED ADDERALL
Severen
Enlightened
- Jun 30, 2018
- 1,819
I think he is a horrible person but he definitely has a lot of energy for someone of his age who also eats McDonalds regularly... I wouldn't be surprised.
He did not lol! I can't see Trump doing adderall. I don't think Trump needs speed. He has a nice life Adderall is for the regular pple who need 3 jobs to survive lol!
Severen
Enlightened
- Jun 30, 2018
- 1,819
The dude is old and fat yet he has so much energy. He has to be on something. Most dudes like him would be, tired all the time. The guy was born in the 1940s if I remember correctly...
I'm sure Trump is probably on hormone replacement, and he has state of the art healthcare and chefs. Of course he will have more energy than most guys his age because he has the means to be very healthy in old age.
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Severen
Enlightened
- Jun 30, 2018
- 1,819
Sitokirment
Member
- Jun 6, 2019
- 37
Severen
Enlightened
- Jun 30, 2018
- 1,819
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