Discussion Does Being Suicidal for a Long Time Mean You Can't Change?

[OutOfThisBody]

Every time my suicidal feelings come up I regret not having killed myself already. I realize they are the truth or else I wouldn't have had them more or less since 5th grade.

 

[DivineSpark]

I have kinda gotten used to it.

 

[ma0]

I'm really conflicted on this, I do think that everyone can overcome serious ideation, albeit with incredible effort which may be a lot for some people, but yeah it's hard to say the thoughts will ever fully go away for some people. The further along this path you are, as well, the harder it is to turn back.

 

[SomewhereAlongThe]

You could be suffering from depression etc. since you were in 5th grade, and if your depression subsides that means the suicidal thoughts can too. I don't think they are the absolute truth, but just a monster you've been fighting since 5th grade. I think it's possible it can change if you try to recover, but that is sincerely up to you.

 

[Apathy79]

I think for some people change is at least very unlikely, if not impossible. But it's very individual. When it's related to life circumstances and they change (moving out of an abusive home, loneliness to finding someone, poverty to stable finances, effectively processing trauma, finding meds that work for physical/mental issues, kicking the drug/alcohol addiction, whatever - there's a million), we see recoveries frequently, despite sometimes decades of feeling hopeless beforehand. Age seems to be a big factor too - a huge number of deeply depressed teenagers seem to recover in adulthood. Not so many 30+ year olds that still haven't broken the pattern.

 

[OutOfThisBody]

You could be suffering from depression etc. since you were in 5th grade, and if your depression subsides that means the suicidal thoughts can too. I don't think they are the absolute truth, but just a monster you've been fighting since 5th grade. I think it's possible it can change if you try to recover, but that is sincerely up to you.

I went to a psychologist and actually got diagnosed with GAD, not depression, though they said I had depression-like symptoms.

I mean, for me personally what bothers me is the truth. What bothers me is that because I was born as a woman I am too weak to fight off a male attacker or walk at night safely. It breaks my heart that I can't be out late just to take in the night smells and sounds. It makes me feel like I don't want to play the game anymore if I can't win - if I can't do what I want because of something I didn't even choose. But that's just me.

 

[SomewhereAlongThe]

I went to a psychologist and actually got diagnosed with GAD, not depression, though they said I had depression-like symptoms.

I mean, for me personally what bothers me is the truth. What bothers me is that because I was born as a woman I am too weak to fight off a male attacker or walk at night safely. It breaks my heart that I can't be out late just to take in the night smells and sounds. It makes me feel like I don't want to play the game anymore if I can't win - if I can't do what I want because of something I didn't even choose. But that's just me.

Yeah, it seems like a lot of things being the truth get to you. But please be careful because some of the things you think are the absolute truth aren't, like what if you could recover if you want to and you don't because you think how you feel is the truth? I understand wanting to be out late and not being able to and it sucks, but there are places you can visit if you travel that have beaches nearby and generally are considered safe at night. I think it's worth playing the game if you can at least experience it. I play COD all the time and I suck, but the experience draws me in. I know you didn't choose this, and I'm sorry you feel you drew the short stick.

 

[derpyderpins]

Change is pretty much always possible [and I only say pretty much to avoid outlier circumstances like an incurable painful disease].

The questions are moreso 'will change happen,' 'how much change will happen,' 'will it be enough?'

I realize [my suicidal feelings] are the truth or else I wouldn't have had them more or less since 5th grade.

The wording is interesting. (and I'm not being pedantic. The internal script and word choice we use is of immense importance.)

How can - or when are - suicidal feelings "the truth?" Literally, a suicidal feeling just means you want to commit suicide, so I guess because A = A, yes, the feelings are true. They are real feelings and desires.

But the way you use truth, to me, suggests that suicide is a cosmically, objectively, correct choice. That's a bold claim. Honest to god I don't think literally anyone can be sure if suicide is the right choice, not 100%. That's both for measurable reasons (things could change/get better) and for more spiritual reasons (it's a sum of pain v. joy the proper determining factor?)

Life has a lot of harsh realities but also a lot of nice things. I can't tell you which one there's more of, but you can change in the sense that your life has more nice things and less harsh things.

 

[divinemistress36]

I think for some people change is at least very unlikely, if not impossible. But it's very individual. When it's related to life circumstances and they change (moving out of an abusive home, loneliness to finding someone, poverty to stable finances, effectively processing trauma, finding meds that work for physical/mental issues, kicking the drug/alcohol addiction, whatever - there's a million), we see recoveries frequently, despite sometimes decades of feeling hopeless beforehand. Age seems to be a big factor too - a huge number of deeply depressed teenagers seem to recover in adulthood. Not so many 30+ year olds that still haven't broken the pattern.

Ive noticed this to . If people are still deeply depressed into their 30s from most of their life its probably there to stay

 

[FuneralCry]

I've been suicidal for so long, in fact I've always wanted to not exist, I'll personally always hope and wish for death as long as I suffer in this cruel and torturous existence, for me wanting to not exist is a response to existence itself. I'd just never wish for the suffering of existing rather all I hope for is to sleep permanently, only non-existence could ever bring me the peace and relief I search for, for me existing is so deeply undesirable in every way and more than anything I just wish I never suffered at all.

 

[dust-in-the-wind]

I'm 55 years old and been struggling on and off with MDD and wanting to die since 18 years old. I found it gets worse as you get older. Not curable at least in my case.

 

[catfriend]

I'm 55 years old and been struggling on and off with MDD and wanting to die since 18 years old. I found it gets worse as you get older. Not curable at least in my case.

how have you managed for so long, friend? i, too, have been struggling with MDD episodes since my early 20s and i couldn't imagine making it to 55.

 

[teflon997]

At a point I feel suicidal ideation becomes something unremitting/irreversible. Especially the longer the spells last. Eventually you reach a point of so much ruminating that it becomes part of you and the thoughts stay.

 

[cemeteryismyhome]

Part of me wants to say "yeah anyone can change", but then I think about myself... I can't change and honestly don't want to. All I want is to be gone. But maybe you can change. If you want to, then I hope you succeed.

 

[dust-in-the-wind]

how have you managed for so long, friend? i, too, have been struggling with MDD episodes since my early 20s and i couldn't imagine making it to 55.

I have had years where medication would work very well. And some years not so much. But these last 3 years nothing has worked. I was hospitalized twice last year(useless) and even did ECT treatments. I'm afraid to die is the only reason I'm still here but realistically can't go on like this.

 

[rs929]

I don't know how to answer this. My suicidal thoughts are tied to my depression episodes. Since they're episodic, I'm not always depressed. Or at least suicidal. I can't tell the future for certain, that's why I still keep going. Maybe the good years are worth the bad years.
But no, I don't think suicidality is something static that never changes

I have had years where medication would work very well. And some years not so much. But these last 3 years nothing has worked. I was hospitalized twice last year(useless) and even did ECT treatments. I'm afraid to die is the only reason I'm still here but realistically can't go on like this.

Hey, did you have any sequelae from ECT? I know it saves lives but I'm too afraid of cognitive damage

 

[dontwakemeup]

I think once the idea of suicide begins, it never goes away. I think, well for me, it started as a fantasy. I've had a few attempts, and failed. I thought I'd learned from them and became wiser, but still failed. I'm not active anymore and I doubt I'll ever attempt again, but the thought never goes away. I always regretted those failed attempts were successful.

 

[sleepy_redcar]

I'd like to think that they go away in your 30s like it has been mentioned earlier, personally mine started when I was around 15 and gradually became more intense, and now that i'm 19 they are at their peak, it's like after that first attempt I think every time "I would've been okay not living where I am now", I like to hope they eventually just vanish in the wind

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

I do think there's a point at which suicidality becomes "irreversible," where you cross a line for good. Where that line is will vary from person-to-person, but the longer you suffer from suicidal ideation, the more likely it is that you'll eventually cross it. Speaking for myself, I think within the first ~two years of being suicidal, if certain deficiencies in my life had been filled, I could've come out of it and gone on to have a relatively normal life free of ideation. But at a certain point it was like a switch flipped and now there is nothing to be done for it. Alea iacta est. The die is cast.

On the point of having the misfortune to be born female, I definitely feel you on that point; it also one of my motivators. I refuse to bear this burden.

 

[dust-in-the-wind]

I don't know how to answer this. My suicidal thoughts are tied to my depression episodes. Since they're episodic, I'm not always depressed. Or at least suicidal. I can't tell the future for certain, that's why I still keep going. Maybe the good years are worth the bad years.
But no, I don't think suicidality is something static that never changes

Hey, did you have any sequelae from ECT? I know it saves lives but I'm too afraid of cognitive damage

My suicidal thoughts are also tied to my depressive episodes. I just meant that it always comes back at some point and sticks around longer the older you get. As for the ECT I had memory loss around the time of the treatments but don't feel I have any cognitive damage. I also did it 18 times for reference. It didn't help my depression at all.

 

[rs929]

My suicidal thoughts are also tied to my depressive episodes. I just meant that it always comes back at some point and sticks around longer the older you get. As for the ECT I had memory loss around the time of the treatments but don't feel I have any cognitive damage. I also did it 18 times for reference. It didn't help my depression at all.

Is it an universal truth that it always come back and gets worse each time? I haven't seen scientific research about that. I know, statistically, once you had 3-4 episodes there is a 90% chance of having another one. But they don't say anything about severity and length

 

[dust-in-the-wind]

Is it an universal truth that it always come back and gets worse each time? I haven't seen scientific research about that. I know, statistically, once you had 3-4 episodes there is a 90% chance of having another one. But they don't say anything about severity and length

I have read online before it does get worse with age but not sure of the source and it's reliability. Nothing in life is definate anyway.

 

[vitbar]

Even without the depression the thoughts have become a habit for me. Still they don't weigh on me as much as they did. I think habits can be changed. I've experienced far greater changes in myself. Often change is only obvious when looking back after years.

 

[catfriend]

Is it an universal truth that it always come back and gets worse each time? I haven't seen scientific research about that. I know, statistically, once you had 3-4 episodes there is a 90% chance of having another one. But they don't say anything about severity and length

found this -- still digesting it, though: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3533492/

 

[Rynalia]

Not impossible, but I reckon the cost of care and the effort required would be the biggest hurdles.

 

[rs929]

found this -- still digesting it, though: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3533492/

But basically it says it doesn't worsen with age. Age is not a factor. Except early onset is not a good thing. What is your interpretation of it?

 

[Forever Sleep]

I feel like to change something, you have to so deperately want it above everything else. If we consider patterns of thinking that may be related but are very hard to change- addiction problems. People can break addictions. Even long-term addictions but I suspect the level of determination has to be huge. The benefit of quiting has to feel consistantly better too.

If indeed we can change patterns of ideation (I'm not entirely sure but, I imagine it is possible for some people,) I expect the conditions need to be similar to quitting addiction.

What benefits will we get by quitting? I think we can lean back on ideation as a coping mechanism almost. As in- if things get really bad, I can just kill myself. Some people feel comforted by the idea that they have an escape. So- that doesn't appeal to me. To accept I have no escape.

I also personally find it easier to just wallow in feeling unhappy rather than becoming conscious of it and fighting it. I think that's a major issue. That fighting ideation and depression takes a lot of energy but, depression zaps energy. So- it's a vicious cycle really- as I see it.

I'm sure it's not impossible but, I suppose the prize end goal- full recovery has to feel worth it to put yourself through all that. So- I guess that's the other issue really. If people can remember their life pre-ideation, was it so much better that it spurs them on to get back to it? Or, can they simply imagine being happy and content with life? Enough that it is a desirable goal to work towards?

I suspect the trouble with longer term ideation is that it almost becomes part of our personality. We may even be kind of fond of being a pessimist or a cynic. If we think the happy people out there are actually delluded in some way- will we be so set on becoming one of them? I think there's also the issue that we may actually want to hold on to the negative parts of ourselves.

While I suspect it's possible, I think it's a case of: How much do I want this? How much work am I willing to put in to change? Am I willing to let go of (possibly more comforting and easier thought patterns/ behaviours) in order to change?

Personally, I know I won't put in the effort. I won't let go of certain thought patterns and behaviours and, I'm not even entirely sure I do want to 'recover'. I don't see 'normal' life as being sufficient reward so- it's not something I even consider now.

 

[brokeandbroken]

Every time my suicidal feelings come up I regret not having killed myself already. I realize they are the truth or else I wouldn't have had them more or less since 5th grade.

I feel like suicides differ and it depends on many factors I think in some situations change is possible and others no.

 

[Wolf Girl]

I'm actually free of suicidal thoughts for the past 2 months because I spent hours and hours in inpatient practicing blocking the thoughts. I practiced thinking about the most distressing things in the world and not going to ctb as the solution. It's so stupid, but I do this thing where I get really afraid of certain thoughts and I can block them out. I tried to make ctb triggering in that way and it has been effective.

 

[Griever]

I think about killing myself every day but I've kind of gotten used to it