Does anybody else think the looming war (Russia/Ukraine) will eventually lead us into a new age of civilisation?

[user_name_here]

By this i mean, after this (possible) WW3, we as humans will finally recognize that waring over borders and politics isn't helpful to humanity, after the damage has been done.

I say this because we're starting to really ramp up space programs on a global scale, technological advancements are starting to emerge at a rapid rate, space colonisation, search for life, UFOs/UAP's, fusion energy, some of sciences biggest questions are (somewhat) close to finally being answered, and here we are fighting over resources and land borders.

I feel as though this could be the final nail in the coffin that makes us realise that, as humans, that we could advance our species so much more by collectively focusing and working together in scientific fields as opposed to bolstering up military forces to intimidate one another and posture over who's more superior.

I mention fusion energy as this groundbreaking advancement will eventually offer free infinite energy to the planet, eradicating the need for fossil fuels and the war/politics that come with it. Allowing developing nations to actually progress dramatically.

I mention the 'search for life' because, well, humanities biggest question is "are we alone", and we're getting much closer to confirming that we might not be.

I mention UFO/UAP's because US congress are getting very serious about the investigation into this with the Gillibrand amendment.
Then there's also countless encounters of these UAP's seen in and around nuclear plants and military convoy carrying such weapons. Almost like an ominous warning by a higher intelligence.

Edit: sorry if this seems crazy. i'm sober as hell, just thinking out loud.

 

[JinZhin]

Personally, I don't think that is possible, maybe because I have no faith in humanity, maybe because I think human stupidity and irrationality is an unstoppable force, there will always be conflicts, wars, inequality and tirany imposed by the powerful ones because we humans are that stupid and we can't have nice things.
If the WW3, or something remotely similar does indeed happen (I don't think it's going to be full on military conflict but more something along the lines of hacking /biological weapons galore/ power and communications sabotages and a lot of small seemingly unrelated incidents), it's only going to accelerate the decline of our civilization and it's going to suck for everyone who ends up surviving it.

One more reason for skepticism, wasn't just the WW1 alone not bad enough (try reading Nothing New on the Western Front by Remarque and just think about it)? Wasn't WW2 bad enough? Isn't being alive for so many people bad enough, it goes for so many things, what I'm trying to get at, if people as species weren't helplessly idiotic when it comes to stuff like this, many terrible
things that any History textbook is overflowing with would teach us a lesson.

Or maybe I am just a hopeless pessimist, also I know nothing

 

[user_name_here]

I see your point, though i would say after Hiroshima, it definitely changed the landscape of war somewhat. There hasn't been another use of atomic or nuclear weaponry since.

I say that to propose this, if Russia/USA or whomever does use nuclear weapons this time around, the damage (occurring in Europe this time) would make the 1st world nations really take a step back. They didn't quite care enough when it was used in Japan, but in Europe? in 2022? I think it would force much of the world to re-consider many things. Sadly.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

Yeah I agree with @JinZhin

I see everything as being cyclical. We're too moronic to not keep repeating the same mistakes. And as a society we're devolving at a frightening rate. With more people, more need for resources, and more arrogance and stupidity than ever, ongoing conflict is inevitable.

 

[Looooser]

The human race will never stop fighting. There is no way energy will ever be free. Money and greed are to important to the rich. Space exploration will just complicate things even further. I'm hoping for the alien invasion to take over the human race or just wipe us out.

Fyi I might be high

 

[user_name_here]

I do agree that humans are likely to simply keep repeating the same horrible actions, but i also firmly believe answering humanities biggest question will drastically shift the perspective of many.

If the James Webb confirms the existence of an earth like planet giving off human-like/man made bio signatures, I think the world will momentarily freeze in awe before a grand shift begins.

new religions will spawn, old religions will fight, there will be brief despair, fear and waring until we inevitably decide to persue a higher understanding of ourselves and our place in the universe. I know, a bit woo-woo but i honestly feel that way. There is no way we simply continue as normal knowing we're not alone here.

Theres a reason Nasa are working with Theologians to prepare the world in the event that alien life is confirmed.

 

[WrongPlaceWrongTime]

While I doubt that war will erupt from the Ukraine-Russia conflict (mostly fearmongering by Biden to me), I don't think even a full-fledged nuclear war would change humans. WW1 was once thought to be the war to end all wars, yet that only led to a larger scale one 20 years later.

Humans create new technology, but will always seek a way to use it against each other. This species is destructive and violent by nature, that will always be a constant.

 

[Nolan96]

I doubt there will be a war.

I'm also prone to a sort of optimistic pessimism. I very often think things like, 'Things are horrible right now. But life in general is so horrible that I almost can't imagine how they could be better, only worse."

That's how I feel about international tensions. They're bad, but at least there aren't that many major wars going on compared to previous centuries, and I imagine any unified single-state world as immediately descending into a horrific totalitarian dystopia far worse than the present day. World peace sounds potentially as bad as world war to me.

 

[Kristicide]

I would love if someone did drop a huge nuke that took out the whole world. It'd be a quick death for all of us.

 

[Julgran]

If a third world war does break out, I'm afraid that we will have more immediate matters to worry about when it ends - such as finding shelter and food - and those who would survive would try to find means of controlling others and to build their own political structures. Humans are selfish creatures.

 

[YourNeighbor]

No one who knows much about politics, history, or the current state of the world expects WWIII to break out over Ukraine. Ukraine is an easy target for Putin, which is why he is targeting it.

Now, if you are suggesting that we have been seeing a troubling rise of neo-fascism/nationalism globally, along with growing income inequality in many developed countries and the erosion of democratic norms and institutions, topped off with a realignment in relative military power which in turn may make major conflicts generally more likely over the coming decade, that's another discussion.

 

[Fragile]

No, because there is no "we" as humans, there will never be and for very good reasons. You can't expect that humanity will magically forget all the bad blood between groups and our individual differences, especially when you try to unite the ones of us who don't want to be united with the "we as humans" movements or ideologies.

And if people still search for that "we" even after all the tragedies of collectivism during the last century, then I'd say that this species will not only never change, it will keep on repeating the same mistakes because of some utopic and vague dreams that invariably into a living nightmares.

Also, let's not forget that the last time a big war ended it resulted in a long, bitter, cruel cold war that arguably never ended.

 

[DeutscheKartoffel]

As long as Russia and China gets nuked, I'll be very happy.

 

[user_name_here]

No, because there is no "we" as humans, there will never be and for very good reasons. You can't expect that humanity will magically forget all the bad blood between groups and our individual differences, especially when you try to unite the ones of us who don't want to be united with the "we as humans" movements or ideologies.

And if people still search for that "we" even after all the tragedies of collectivism during the last century, then I'd say that this species will not only never change, it will keep on repeating the same mistakes because of some utopic and vague dreams that invariably into a living nightmares.

Also, let's not forget that the last time a big war ended it resulted in a long, bitter, cruel cold war that arguably never ended.

well see, the "we as humans" bullshit ideology would definitely pick up if intelligent life is discovered outside of our planet. it's such a major revelation that there is no doubt it would have a monumental impact on "us as humans". As of now, (with no alien life confirmed), it sounds like some hippy dippy BS because we have no proof to suggest otherwise, yet.

but in regards to the cold war, the world was also a very different place back in 1943, the younger generations of today are nothing like those from the 40s/50s/60s. When younger generations come to power, they may have totally different outlooks to those that came before.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

I wish I could say that I see something like that happening in the future, but I don't. It's hard enough to get people to care about what happens to their own neighbors. We just had a global pandemic and lots of people acted like straight up sociopaths.

 

[Fragile]

well see, the "we as humans" bullshit ideology would definitely pick up if intelligent life is discovered outside of our planet. it's such a major revelation that there is no doubt it would have a monumental impact on "us as humans". As of now, (with no alien life confirmed), it sounds like some hippy dippy BS because we have no proof to suggest otherwise, yet.

I think that you are overestimating the impact of such discovery on the acceptance of collective ideologies. Besides, it all depends on what kind of intelligent life is discovered, and where. Are they so far away that their existence is merely a fun fact? are they already among us? are they as divided as humanity?

Even if they are the kind of event that will unite some people, you can't expect everyone to think the same about how we should move forward. That in itself is enough to submerge humanity into yet another conflict.

but in regards to the cold war, the world was also a very different place back in 1943, the younger generations of today are nothing like those from the 40s/50s/60s. When younger generations come to power, they may have totally different outlooks to those that came before.

The people from this time may live in a different time with different technologies, information, perspectives, etc. But humans are fundamentally the same animal, it's not as if this animal has radically evolved in less than a century. And the fact that younger generations will come to power doesn't mean that they'll use their positions in a positive way, which is already an extremely subjective concept.
If anything, there's a clear resurgence in far-left and far-right authoritarian ideologies around the world, most of this is because of the younger generation's perspective and the decades of division that shaped their worldview.

 

[YourNeighbor]

No, because there is no "we" as humans, there will never be and for very good reasons.

There absolutely will be a "we" as humans, if humans are to survive. Tribal identity was workable when our whole lives revolved around a village. As our problems/contacts expanded beyond the village, so too did our political organizations and identities. It hasn't been long on the historical scale that our problems are global and we asa humans have the power to render the planet uninhabitable. Our identities and politics will have to evolve eventually to meet our new challenges. It might not happen within the next generation, but will have to happen eventually. The alternative is self-destruction, an option people usually avoid.

You can't expect that humanity will magically forget all the bad blood between groups

Not true. 75 years ago Germany was trying to annihilate Poland. Now they're economic and military allies. 200 years ago Britain and France were mortal enemies, no longer. Just two of many examples how things can change over time.

 

[Luchs]

We have been butchering eachother for millennia, every time it happened people said never again until it happened again. Tribalism and us vs. them thinking are inherent parts of human nature and that won't change. My biggest hope is that if WW3 happens and I survive we have another post reconstruction golden age like in the 60s-70s in Europe or the 50s in the US.

 

[motel rooms]

Nobody's gonna use nukes over Ukraine.

 

[Fragile]

There absolutely will be a "we" as humans, if humans are to survive. Tribal identity was workable when our whole lives revolved around a village. As our problems/contacts expanded beyond the village, so too did our political organizations and identities. It hasn't been long on the historical scale that our problems are global and we asa humans have the power to render the planet uninhabitable. Our identities and politics will have to evolve eventually to meet our new challenges. It might not happen within the next generation, but will have to happen eventually. The alternative is self-destruction, an option people usually avoid.

I don't entirely disagree with you, but I'm fundamentally opposed to the idea that this "we" can be created to face the ever evolving challenges that this world has for us in the future. Ar least in my opinion, it will end up in the all too common "us vs them" that always happens when people end up disagreeing with decisions of this magnitude. Don't tell me that all of us will agree on the same path towards facing or ignoring these challenges.
There's always a chance that people end up even more divided.

Not true. 75 years ago Germany was trying to annihilate Poland. Now they're economic and military allies. 200 years ago Britain and France were mortal enemies, no longer. Just two of many examples how things can change over time.

It's true that specific groups can bury their differences, to some degree. But we are not talking about the small scale here, OP is clearly talking about worldwide collectivization. The scale is orders of magnitude larger than the examples you presented, and it absolutely matters. Also, the same way you brought positive examples, I could present many that ended up in horrible tragedies that are still to this day bitter points of division between human groups.

But none of this matters, nothing major is going to start from this Ukraine situation.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

Frankly, I'm not sure how Russia/Ukraine conflict is in any way related to discovering extraterrestial intelligent life. I'm pretty sure that if things do escalate further, Russia will curbstomp Ukraine much, much faster than the amount of time required to make any major space-related breakthrough and at that the show will be over.
Heck, with all the ecological problems we have we might go extinct before we're able to reach other galaxies and find Earth-like planets. That might be the reason why we haven't heard anything from aliens so far - maybe any civilisation is doomed to snuff itself out before it reaches the level of technology required to reach others.
Sorry for being a downer, but that's how I see things, honestly.

 

[user_name_here]

Nobody's gonna use nukes over Ukraine.

this could be true, but theres currently a lot fighting going on around Chernobyl.. I hope the elephant dome(?) isn't compromised, that would be disastrous for us all.

Frankly, I'm not sure how Russia/Ukraine conflict is in any way related to discovering extraterrestial intelligent life.

Yeah they don't. I just want to talk about current events and Space is fascinating to me.
Also Space exploration is making grand moves which we will likely see the fruits of in our lifetime. (by this i mean discoveries)

I'm pretty sure that if things do escalate further, Russia will curbstomp Ukraine much, much faster than the amount of time required to make any major space-related breakthrough and at that the show will be over.
Heck, with all the ecological problems we have we might go extinct before we're able to reach other galaxies and find Earth-like planets. That might be the reason why we haven't heard anything from aliens so far - maybe any civilisation is doomed to snuff itself out before it reaches the level of technology required to reach others.
Sorry for being a downer, but that's how I see things, honestly.

Yeah this is likely, but the JW telescope and the planned telescopes to come after are going to captures images and data we've never been able to. It's not about being able to travel anywhere just yet, but simply the confirmation to mankind's biggest question. "Are we alone?" And we probably aren't. Our nearest star system 'Alpha Centuri', and one of its planets 'Proxima B' is already a likely candidate for habitable conditions.

 

[motel rooms]

this could be true, but theres currently a lot fighting going on around Chernobyl.. I hope the elephant dome(?) isn't compromised, that would be disastrous for us all.

Ya never know, both the Russians & the Ukrainians love their vodka & they might blow that shit up with glee.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

Oh, I remebered about this thread! Aged like fine wine...

I mention fusion energy as this groundbreaking advancement will eventually offer free infinite energy to the planet, eradicating the need for fossil fuels and the war/politics that come with it. Allowing developing nations to actually progress dramatically.

You know, if anything good for humanity as a whole has any chance to come out of this war, it might be that. Maybe the whole game of "which asshole do we buy oil from to keep our economies from collapsing" will finally kick the developed nations towards seriously looking into alternative energy sources and slowing down our collective roll towards the apocalypse due to global warming and the imminent depletion of fossil fuels. Slim chances, but still...

I mention the 'search for life' because, well, humanities biggest question is "are we alone", and we're getting much closer to confirming that we might not be.

Now when I read this in the context of this thread, I can't help but imagine Zelensky sending a message to outer space with a request for intelligent alien lifeforms to send their UFOs to Earth to establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine.

 

[Depressed Cat]

Now when I read this in the context of this thread, I can't help but imagine Zelensky sending a message to outer space with a request for intelligent alien lifeforms to send their UFOs to Earth to establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine.

If aliens could just vapourise that palatial bunker in the Ural mountains where the cowardly genocidal dictator is hiding, that would do some good as well.

 

[user_name_here]

Oh, I remebered about this thread! Aged like fine wine...

You know, if anything good for humanity as a whole has any chance to come out of this war, it might be that. Maybe the whole game of "which asshole do we buy oil from to keep our economies from collapsing" will finally kick the developed nations towards seriously looking into alternative energy sources and slowing down our collective roll towards the apocalypse due to global warming and the imminent depletion of fossil fuels. Slim chances, but still...

Now when I read this in the context of this thread, I can't help but imagine Zelensky sending a message to outer space with a request for intelligent alien lifeforms to send their UFOs to Earth to establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine.

Yeah I think I was just having a moment when I wrote this.

I definitely think nuclear energy is the one positive thing that might emerge from this, it's ridiculous that's it taking human lives for this to start the discussion.

Not entirely sure wtf I was trying to say. I hope you're keeping well though nessie, absolutely abhorrent behaviour by that moron putin.

 

[user_name_here]

bump

 

[Elysion]

Your opinions are respected, but politicians have the first and last word.And history has taught us that politicians always do dirty things to please people or control them.

 

[CarambaAlbum]

In my opinion, we will see nuclear war in our lifetime and it will be life ruining for the majority of the population.

The Russia/Ukraine war is not that war.

Give it another half decade and an agreement will have to be made, whether Russia gets forced into it or not is anyone's guess. The world has been psyop'd into supporting Ukraine so no matter what happens it won't be good for Russia.

 

[Stylite]

No. That's all just soppy sentimentalism and nonsense.