Do you think there are fake members on this website who solely want attention?

[WorthlessTrash]

With all due respect this isn't supersoul Sunday, this is a suicide forum and nobody here is stable or rational because suicide isn't rational, so why would people exhibit rationality in every comment/post?...

Why cant suicide be rational? Suicide being irrational is exactly one of the anti-choice arguments in regards to suicide....

 

[CTBgenuine]

Why cant suicide be rational? Suicide being irrational is exactly one of the anti-choice arguments in regards to suicide....

It's not rational because if it was, we wouldn't have a survival instinct. If suicide was rational this website wouldn't exist... None of us are thinking clearly, really. Why are members here in therapy? Why are members here on meds? They themselves know suicide ideation isn't rational or they wouldn't be remedying these thoughts.

Of course one can understand why a person with a degenerative illness would want to commit suicide, but is that rational or is that fear and a need to control the circumstances? Is fear rational? We could go so many place with these questions and answers

 

[WorthlessTrash]

It's not rational because if it was, we wouldn't have a survival instinct. If suicide was rational this website wouldn't exist... None of us are thinking clearly, really. Why are members here in therapy? Why are members here on meds? They themselves know suicide ideation isn't rational or they wouldn't be remedying these thoughts.

Of course one can understand why a person with a degenerative illness would want to commit suicide, but is that rational or is that fear and a need to control the circumstances? Is fear rational? We could go so many place with these questions and answers

We have survival instinct because we are programmed to want to live, but at the same time we are programmed not to want to suffer, so if suicide is the alternative to that, then it is indeed rational.

Wanting to continue suffering is not rational.

 

[CTBgenuine]

We have survival instinct because we are programmed to want to live, but at the same time we are programmed not to want to suffer, so if suicide is the alternative to that, then it is indeed rational.

Wanting to continue suffering is not rational.

You contradicted yourself because if we're programmed to live AND programmed to not wish to suffer, how is suicide rational because it goes against our core programming?
The need to survive is stronger than a dislike for suffering, in nature. Why did holocaust victims not kill themselves? Because the survival instinct overrides a dislike for suffering. You can dress it up however you like but fundamentally suicide isn't a rational decision.

 

[Graham]

I don't want to accuse anyone. Honestly I could not name any suspect.

But I think this is a stereotype about suicide forums. Though I am not sure whether it is true and to what an extent. I had to think about it because my therapist once warned me. He said there would be people like that in those forums.

I honestly don't get why people would like to do something like that. I imagine the following scenario. Someone pretends he has cancer or horrible mental conditions and a nightmarish past. However this is not true. But what does he get in exchange for that? People feel sorry for him because he/she has such a tough life. But his whole persona is just fake. This is why all the empathy is only shallow and not really valuable because it is for a fictional person.

I don't get those people (in case they exist). What do you think is this really a problem? What do you think about my line of argumentation?

Hard to know

Not worth worrying about

Be true to yourself

 

[WorthlessTrash]

You contradicted yourself because if we're programmed to live AND programmed to not wish to suffer, how is suicide rational because it goes against our core programming?
The need to survive is stronger than a dislike for suffering, in nature. Why did holocaust victims not kill themselves? Because the survival instinct overrides a dislike for suffering. You can dress it up however you like but fundamentally suicide isn't a rational decision.

I'm sorry but I just don't agree with suicide being irrational all of the time. I think someone wanting to CTB because they got rejected by a girl may be irrational (but that is not up to me to decide). Someone wanting to die vs living the rest of their life as the wrong sex or living with an uncurable medical condition for example may not be irrational

What it all comes down to is no one really wants to die. From one person's perspective, CTBing may be the lesser of the two evils and there might be a point where the suffering outweighs the desire to live.

I pose this question under the assumption you're here because you want to CTB (so disregard if you do not): Why are you wanting to CTB if it's irrational? Why don't you make the so called rational choice and cope instead?

Telling people (especially on this site) that suicide is irrational undermines our right to choose to CTB.

 

[CTBgenuine]

I

I'm sorry but I just don't agree with suicide being irrational all of the time. I think someone wanting to CTB because they got rejected by a girl may be irrational (but that is not up to me to decide). Someone wanting to die vs living the rest of their life as the wrong sex or living with an uncurable medical condition for example may not be irrational

What it all comes down to is no one really wants to die. From one person's perspective, CTBing may be the lesser of the two evils and there might be a point where the suffering outweighs the desire to live.

I pose this question under the assumption you're here because you want to CTB (so disregard if you do not): Why are you wanting to CTB if it's irrational? Why don't you make the so called rational choice and cope instead?

Telling people (especially on this site) that suicide is irrational undermines our right to choose to CTB.

I'm here because I Know feeling suicidal isn't "Normal". I know there's something very different about me and my thoughts/feelings.
Of course I have free will to kill myself and I'm positive I will but I also know this isn't rational, I know this will cause people pain and I know I'm ill...

I think we should all have the choice to do with our lives as we wish but I also know taking ourselves out of the game isn't natural to how humans are wired.
This is how I know suicide is irrational because I'm wired in a way that destroys myself, the problem isn't everything else the problem is me.

 

[NobodyKnowsMe]

Honestly, it doesn't matter whether WE think that being suicidal is rational or not. What matters is how society sees it. Otherwise, we wouldn't be here, looking for methods and ingredients, mostly in secret ----- and hoping like hell that once we finally jump on that bus, that nobody finds us too soon.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

I

I'm here because I Know feeling suicidal isn't "Normal". I know there's something very different about me and my thoughts/feelings.
Of course I have free will to kill myself and I'm positive I will but I also know this isn't rational, I know this will cause people pain and I know I'm ill...

I think we should all have the choice to do with our lives as we wish but I also know taking ourselves out of the game isn't natural to how humans are wired.
This is how I know suicide is irrational because I'm wired in a way that destroys myself, the problem isn't everything else the problem is me.

Well, i see your point. Thank you for elaborating.

Personally, i think suicide can be rational if you are able to keep weighing the pros and cons vs the other options. I don't think an impulse suicide is rational, however.

 

[NobodyKnowsMe]

Personally, i think suicide can be rational if you are able to keep weighing the pros and cons vs the other options. I don't think an impulse suicide is rational, however.

I can definitely understand this viewpoint.
Even if suicide is generally irrational, if one has taken the time to weigh everything out, looking at things from all angles, and still feels that death is the best option, I'd say that their choice could be considered rational within the context of 'thought out versus impulse'.

 

[GentleJerk]

suicide isn't a rational decision

The causes of suicide and the act of suicide itself, exists within a spectrum- with irrational on one end and rational on the other, and every degree inbetween.

It certainly can be a rational decision, my friends grandfather chose to be euthanized a few months ago due to his MND. His decision was undeniably and completely rational.

 

[Someone123]

It seems unlikely to happen much here because how much attention could you get? In person attention is much more rewarding. I think most of the peopel are here because tehy find other peopel here who understand these problems or because they lost a aloved one to suicide or heard of this happening and they want to prevent it. I am in the first group but I am sympathetic to the second group. Many young people in college for the first time get overwhelmed and commit suicide, or sometimes even in high school. I do think that the younger a person is the more they should be encouraged to find other options becaause the world gives so much more opportunity to younger people if they can somehow escape the stresses of their current situation. When I was young, college-age, the situation was so comlicated that it was very hard to know how to find help.

 

[CrossroadsCurious]

"We are all puppets hanging over an ocean of madness." Alexander Gordon Smith

 

[peanuts]

I'm sure there are some people out there that do this stuff, but people who are mentally healthy/not suicidal don't usually have a desire to be on sites like this. They don't actually enjoy spending time talking about it or reading about it. This isn't the type of site you stumble on. It doesn't even come up in Google searches for me. It's the same with pro-anorexia sites.. sure some people might just be wanting to lose weight, but healthy people who feel self-worth don't go looking for sites like that. They don't even think about the existence of sites like that.

Tldr; not many I don't think. Most people who weren't legit wouldn't even think to search for sites like this.

 

[NSA]

You contradicted yourself because if we're programmed to live AND programmed to not wish to suffer, how is suicide rational because it goes against our core programming?
The need to survive is stronger than a dislike for suffering, in nature. Why did holocaust victims not kill themselves? Because the survival instinct overrides a dislike for suffering. You can dress it up however you like but fundamentally suicide isn't a rational decision.

Holocaust victims do kill themselves.

Study: Holocaust survivors 3 times more likely to attempt suicide

contrary to the widely accepted view in Israel's medical profession, the survivors are much more prone to suicide then their peers.

www.haaretz.com

 

[CTBgenuine]

Holocaust victims do kill themselves.

Study: Holocaust survivors 3 times more likely to attempt suicide

contrary to the widely accepted view in Israel's medical profession, the survivors are much more prone to suicide then their peers.

www.haaretz.com

I wasn't referring to post freedom, I mean while they were in ghettos/hiding/concentration camps etc

 

[NSA]

I wasn't referring to post freedom, I mean while they were in ghettos/hiding/concentration camps etc

The article mentions that too. Here's another link. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3541300/

Suicide in Inmates in Nazis and Soviet Concentration Camps: Historical Overview and Critique

Living conditions in concentration camps were harsh and often inhumane, leading many prisoners to commit suicide. We have reviewed this topic in Nazi concentration camps (KL), Soviet special camps, and gulags, providing some preliminary data for our research. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[CTBgenuine]

The article mentions that too. Here's another link. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3541300/

Suicide in Inmates in Nazis and Soviet Concentration Camps: Historical Overview and Critique

Living conditions in concentration camps were harsh and often inhumane, leading many prisoners to commit suicide. We have reviewed this topic in Nazi concentration camps (KL), Soviet special camps, and gulags, providing some preliminary data for our research. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Intriguing. Thankyou

 

[Weebster]

That would apply to those who've been here longer than a year. This site should be like a conveyor belt to either life or death.

 

[NumbItAll]

I think the issue here is the definition of "rationality" which I do not think is based on whatever is instinctual. Rationality is simply applying reason, i.e. "Life is no longer worth living, therefore I will end it." Irrationality would be "I think life is great and worth living so I am going to end it." In most cases I do not think outsiders are in a position to determine what is a valid reason, which is kind of the basis of the forum. Also having mental issues does not imply irrationality or insanity, and not everyone here even has mental issues. Some have chronic pain or illness.

But back to the original topic... there is a wild duck running around which is almost certainly not real, no way he can be trusted IMO.

Spoiler

 

[outatime_85]

Based on the perception I have of myself and my own mental health, who am I to judge others?

Besides, I guess I am more inclined to think, to use a quote from The Untouchables, "Who would claim to be that who was not?"

 

[whatevs]

I just think they're undermining themselves when they display two very different personas. I've seen some people on here launch into some really hateful shit which was basically unwarranted and unprovoked. And it's pretty off when that same person then goes and attempts to come off as some kind ear to a suffering stranger five minutes later. But fuck, I dunno, I could be wrong.

Caring is never all encompassing even for those with a regular empathetic mind, and with some people, which are mentally ill or just wired differently (think ASPD and such) you find that they can be genuinely caring about some subjects and with certain persons while callous or uncaring with others. Of course, it can also be what you hint at, that they never actually care about anyone but themselves.

The Iceman is an interesting example of this extreme form of selective empathy or caring.

 

[FuneralCry]

To me, it would be wrong to accuse people of being 'fake' as we know nothing about peoples circumstances and what they are really going through. Not everyone shares everything on the internet.

 

[Dead Ghost]

Personally, I don't think so (in the sense of socially positioning yourself on social media to get an economic gain, for example), but I still think that someone who wants to draw attention only seeks esteem, so it doesn't bother me to consider that this site is suitable for him, because sooner or later he will need other users to overcome this lack of affection and I want to believe that he will be helped by other members.
//
Personalment no ho crec (en el sentit de posicionar-se socialment a les xarxes per obtenir un rèdit econòmic, per exemple), tot i així penso que algú que vol cridar l'atenció només cerca estima, així que no em fa nosa que consideri que aquest lloc és adequat per ell, doncs tard o d'hora necessitarà dels altres usuaris per superar aquesta manca d'afecte i vull creure que serà ajudat pels altres membres.

 

[chocolatebar]

I'd like to make just some points here...

Even if someone wants "attention" and decides to come here, from all places, that person is probably living in a seriously bad condition and possibly has real suicidal thoughts, which may be expressed in an exaggerated way, to get the "attention". In that case, what's really the problem with the person being around us?

A non suicidal person seeking attention wouldn't come to a place with very few active users to do so, but would use social media to do it and get thousands of virtual "attention points" instead of the couple reactions and comments from here.

Another thing we may discuss is what is this "attention" we talk so much about and why people seek it in the first place. It's well know that we have social needs that will vary from person to person and it's just natural for someone with unsatisfied social needs to get desperate seeking it. In a way, these people have an unfulfilled need, just like we probably have others.

The REAL problem is when someone fakes a serious situation, just like in the famous history about the boy and the wolf. It would be coherent to advert people who do this, but we have no proper methodology to identify when it's real and when it's not. However, these people will learn, one way of another, that, by faking emergencies, people will start discrediting them and they will end just like the boy from the history.

YES! Many of the people here are this wayI.
It's why I mostly keep to myself and have a love/hate relationship with this place

Can you give me some examples, like how these posts may look?

Why cant suicide be rational? Suicide being irrational is exactly one of the anti-choice arguments in regards to suicide....

I agree. My suicidality, for example, is mostly rational. While I have means to have a somewhat good life in the not-so-near future, I want to live some moments of life that are impossible to live anymore. Even if I have a constant boost of "serotonin & friends", I would still want to end this. In fact, this is what mostly makes ctb difficult for me, the fact that I don't have a strong emotion leading me to it.

It's not rational because if it was, we wouldn't have a survival instinct. If suicide was rational this website wouldn't exist... None of us are thinking clearly, really. Why are members here in therapy? Why are members here on meds? They themselves know suicide ideation isn't rational or they wouldn't be remedying these thoughts.

Of course one can understand why a person with a degenerative illness would want to commit suicide, but is that rational or is that fear and a need to control the circumstances? Is fear rational? We could go so many place with these questions and answers

In the first half, you mix rationality and instincts. Rationality is our capacity to think with reason, without our instincts and emotions at play. So, survival instinct doesn't prove your assertion.

In the other half, you make an interesting consideration. However, this thought goes much deeper and we can abandon the discussion of the possibility of a rational suicide and argue if rationality itself exists of if it's merely an illusion and we act in a way to satisfy our instincts in a more effective way in the long run.

 

[YourNeighbor]

It's not rational because if it was, we wouldn't have a survival instinct. If suicide was rational this website wouldn't exist... None of us are thinking clearly, really. Why are members here in therapy? Why are members here on meds? They themselves know suicide ideation isn't rational or they wouldn't be remedying these thoughts.

Of course one can understand why a person with a degenerative illness would want to commit suicide, but is that rational or is that fear and a need to control the circumstances? Is fear rational? We could go so many place with these questions and answers

You've hit a nerve that most here want to ignore. Suicide *can* be rational, but in practice it rarely is.

Most folks who identify as suicidal here reinforce that notion--it's often an act of despair that simply does not match the harm it purportedly is meant to avoid. What do I mean? Many (by no means all) here are by their own admission contemplating suicide for issues that are temporary, passing, or at least potentially treatable. Many (again, by no means all) simply lack the life experience, or are not in a condition, to properly evaluate their problems.

This forum gives a lot of lip service to "freedom of choice," but there is little critical examination of what it means to have the capacity to rationally choose to die. Indeed, bring up the concept of choice and examine it and you are likely to face a not insignificant chorus of "you're a pro-lifer!" (that being, apparently, an insult). That's just the nature of this place.

 

[whatevs]

You've hit a nerve that most here want to ignore. Suicide *can* be rational, but in practice it rarely is.

Most folks who identify as suicidal here reinforce that notion--it's often an act of despair that simply does not match the harm it purportedly is meant to avoid. What do I mean? Many (by no means all) here are by their own admission contemplating suicide for issues that are temporary, passing, or at least potentially treatable. Many (again, by no means all) simply lack the life experience, or are not in a condition, to properly evaluate their problems.

This forum gives a lot of lip service to "freedom of choice," but there is little critical examination of what it means to have the capacity to rationally choose to die. Indeed, bring up the concept of choice and examine it and you are likely to face a not insignificant chorus of "you're a pro-lifer!" (that being, apparently, an insult). That's just the nature of this place.

Yeah, I disagree. The actual profile of most users are chronic sufferers of a financial, physical or psychological condition that arrive at suicide after trying to endure or solve such condition for many years.

The issues behind suicide are rarely passing, temporary or easily treatable. Suicide goes so much against our nature that is only logical that those that actually carry it out have been suffering for long enough for their natural desire to exist to break.

Suicide can be perfectly rational when it is done after years of suffering and without any prospect of improvement.

 

[Dysgenic Pup]

Some people have thought this of me because I shitpost a lot but I assure you I wish I could leave and never come back to this site again. This site helps me cope with the suffering.

 

[chocolatebar]

Many (again, by no means all) simply lack the life experience, or are not in a condition, to properly evaluate their problems.

This brings me 2 questions:

1 - How can someone use their own life experience to deal with the present moment? When they have the experience, the moment doesn't exist anymore. In order for someone to deal with their current problems, they have to do with what is available to them.

2 - Who's in a position to evaluate someone's problems? The one facing the problems or someone else from the outside?

 

[CTBgenuine]

You've hit a nerve that most here want to ignore. Suicide *can* be rational, but in practice it rarely is.

Most folks who identify as suicidal here reinforce that notion--it's often an act of despair that simply does not match the harm it purportedly is meant to avoid. What do I mean? Many (by no means all) here are by their own admission contemplating suicide for issues that are temporary, passing, or at least potentially treatable. Many (again, by no means all) simply lack the life experience, or are not in a condition, to properly evaluate their problems.

This forum gives a lot of lip service to "freedom of choice," but there is little critical examination of what it means to have the capacity to rationally choose to die. Indeed, bring up the concept of choice and examine it and you are likely to face a not insignificant chorus of "you're a pro-lifer!" (that being, apparently, an insult). That's just the nature of this place.

THANKYOU FOR BEING THE ONLY REASONABLE PERSON WHO UNDERSTANDS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!