Do you think that humans should’ve never become conscious?

[DarkRange55]

What is your point? @DarkRange55


Consciousness/Infinity can't have a ground, it is the ground of all things.


Mankind has understood what consciousness is for over 5000 years (small percentage of people at least, the mystics through inner sciences)

Right now, you know you are conscious but you are not conscious of what consciousness is.

Neuroscience cannot answer the problem of consciousness cause neuroscience is occuring within consciousness.

Consciousness is fundamental and irreducible, more fundamental than atoms, energy, time, space, the universe, brains, even life!!

Consciousness is not an emergent property of brain.. "the brain" is occurring in consciousness.

The only way to grasp consciousness is to become conscious of what consciousness is by having awakening experiences.



-consciousness is not brain activity

-consciousness is not reason or intellect

-consciousness is not emergent phenomenon

-consciousness is not biological or exclusive to life

-not a subjective experience

-not a perception

-not a private thing that you own or have

-not occuring within space and time

-all this is assumed by materialistic science


-consciousness is the only thing that it exists..existence itself existing as nothing..pure existence without content or attributes

-consciousness is the substance of everything, everything is made of it

-consciousness is emptiness, it needs to be empty cause it has to be able to take on attributes of every possible thing

-consciousness is not localized it is universal and the universe can be compared to one giant mind instead of a dumb collection of atoms and molecules


-that's hard to assume for materialists cause it feels solid and consistent while minds are more "mystical and magical" even though reality itself always was magical but we got numbed and used to it

-you are the universe that is conscious of itself and its thinking(through ego) that it is a human being separate from it

-good analogy of consciousness is an infinite clay cause everything can be made of it except unlike clay consciousness doesnt have properties which doesnt limit it and they wont interfere with creation

-we can call consciousness a shape shifting substance

-consciousness is not software running on hardware(brain) instead consciousness is software which can run without using hardware

-unsolved problem of mind-body: how can dumb matter give rise to mind, its subjective experience and qualia!!!

-body is a feature of mind mind doesnt arise out of matter

-nothingness is not dumb empty space, it's "alive", intelligent, conscious of itself

-distinction between first order and second order reality:

-dream paradigm-first order reality is mind space where dream is happening and second order is content of dreams

-tv paradigm-first order reality is pixels on the screen second order reality is things which pixels depict third order reality is story told by the movie made out of this things actors and dialogues in the same way first order reality is consciousness and second order reality are objects in the world made by consciousness and third order reality is "story" occuring in the world between things in it

-consciousness cannot be pointed to cause it holds all the pointers

-analogy of charachter of tv screen-can mario use his fingers to point at the pixels of the screen which he is made of?

Obviously not.

In the same way consciousness cannot be grasped by mind concepts or words cause all of it is in it

-nobody can show you what consciousness is you can only become to be conscious of it..models will never work cause they are occurring within it

Don't believe you are pure consciousness, notice it, right now ☀

What about AGI? I'd be curious to hear what you think about that?

 

[dreamscape1111]

Consciousness is not a feature of biology. Consciousness is not something living creatures have.


Consciousness is much more fundamental than that.


Consciousness is more fundamental than physics.


Consciousness is the condition of anything whatsoever being true.


CONSCIOUSNESS IS TRUTH.


You are not conscious because you are alive. You are conscious because you have the condition of truth.


TRUTH is self-luminous.

 

[DarkRange55]

Consciousness is not a feature of biology. Consciousness is not something living creatures have.


Consciousness is much more fundamental than that.


Consciousness is more fundamental than physics.


Consciousness is the condition of anything whatsoever being true.


CONSCIOUSNESS IS TRUTH.


You are not conscious because you are alive. You are conscious because you have the condition of truth.


TRUTH is self-luminous.

Truth is subjective.
What is your evidence outside of philosophy?
More fundamental than physics? What is this like neural physics?
Then how do brain scans work? Why can we measure people's cortisol levels to determine stress? Why does anti-psychotic medication work? Why do psychedelics work chemically on pathways?

 

[sserafim]

Consciousness is not a feature of biology. Consciousness is not something living creatures have.


Consciousness is much more fundamental than that.


Consciousness is more fundamental than physics.


Consciousness is the condition of anything whatsoever being true.


CONSCIOUSNESS IS TRUTH.


You are not conscious because you are alive. You are conscious because you have the condition of truth.


TRUTH is self-luminous.

How did living creatures become alive in the first place though? What was the reason? I heard that all life started from a single cell but what was the reason for that cell to come into being? Why was life created? Was it just a spontaneous accident?

 

[DarkRange55]

How did living creatures become alive in the first place though? What was the reason? I heard that all life started from a single cell but what was the reason for that cell to come into being? Why was life created? Was it just a spontaneous accident?

I think it might be important to draw the distinction between asking why and asking how… to me why implicates that there is a grand objective meaning…

 

[Malaria]

Maybe there are people who enjoy having consciousness and higher intelligence, but I personally don't like it at all. My brain is always forcing me to think about unpleasant things, whether it be anxiety about possible bad outcomes, intrusive thoughts, or constant replaying flashbacks. I don't know what it's like to "live in the moment", my brain is always forcing me to think about negative things.

I know it often gets thrown around as "just a meme", but that "return to monke" meme pretty much shows exactly how I feel. I wish I could be an animal, like a chimpanzee or housecat or something, and not have to worry about my brain torturing me, or as OP said, constantly having to wake up every morning to go to work, paying just to be alive and exist, and having to do what society expects of you. It's exhausting. Being human is exhausting.

 

[DarkRange55]

How did living creatures become alive in the first place though? What was the reason? I heard that all life started from a single cell but what was the reason for that cell to come into being? Why was life created? Was it just a spontaneous accident?

If you're asking how life originated or arose, then look into a abiogenesis. The biogenesis deals more with chemistry and evolution deals more with biology.

How did living creatures become alive in the first place though? What was the reason? I heard that all life started from a single cell but what was the reason for that cell to come into being? Why was life created? Was it just a spontaneous accident?

Is life really that unique or just a random arrangement of amino acids? the chemical System that is life obeys the laws of kinetics and thermodynamics and while it is possibly the coolest most interesting phenomenon its not magical. Intelligent life does not seem inevitable in the same way, it just seems extraordinarily likely. In statistics there's something called the mediocrity principle, basically if you have a sample size of one chances are that, that is from the most common dataset.

 

[Homo erectus]

How did living creatures become alive in the first place though? What was the reason? I heard that all life started from a single cell but what was the reason for that cell to come into being? Why was life created? Was it just a spontaneous accident?

It seems some kind of creationism might be true, not necessarily as some religions say, but in the style of "How do we know the world wasn't created 5 minutes ago?" History, evolution, and other theories about our past and origin are just extrapolation from our present knowledge. All lives coming from a single cell seems to be based on a lot of assumptions and imagination.

This world is possibly a simulation, a highly simplified version of the wider unknown universe. That's why everything is limited, subject to physical laws. Consciousness is a property of the universe, but we are experiencing only a small amount of it. What will happen after death? Probably nothing? Does death really matter? Probably not. But until the goal of simulation has been reached, life and death will continue to happen, in parallel and sequentially.

 

[DarkRange55]

It seems some kind of creationism might be true, not necessarily as some religions say, but in the style of "How do we know the world wasn't created 5 minutes ago?" History, evolution, and other theories about our past and origin are just extrapolation from our present knowledge. All lives coming from a single cell seems to be based on a lot of assumptions and imagination.

This world is possibly a simulation, a highly simplified version of the wider unknown universe. That's why everything is limited, subject to physical laws. Consciousness is a property of the universe, but we are experiencing only a small amount of it. What will happen after death? Probably nothing? Does death really matter? Probably not. But until the goal of simulation has been reached, life and death will continue to happen, in parallel and sequentially.

You can check my thread on simulation hypothesis, but evolution is very much established. There is a common misconception on the colloquial definition of theory versus the actual scientific definition but for last 150 years it has been established. It's one of the four unifying theories of biology along with cell theory, the gene theory, theory of heredity, and the theory of evolution, and if any one of those four series is wrong, then all of the discoveries and technological breakthroughs would not have been possible. There is pretty much more evidence to support evolution than there is any other theory. Just off the top of my head the observed instances of evolution in fruit flies, indigenous retroviruses, the fossil record, male nipples, DNA, embryonic similarities, ect.

Evolution does not even attempt to explain the origin of life. It deals with the diversity and complexity of life on earth.

Not sure if this video uploaded correctly

You can check my thread on simulation hypothesis, but evolution is very much established. There is a common misconception on the colloquial definition of theory versus the actual scientific definition but for last 150 years it has been established. It's one of the four unifying theories of biology along with cell theory, the gene theory, theory of heredity, and the theory of evolution, and if any one of those four series is wrong, then all of the discoveries and technological breakthroughs would not have been possible. There is pretty much more evidence to support evolution than there is any other theory. Just off the top of my head the observed instances of evolution in fruit flies, indigenous retroviruses, the fossil record, male nipples, DNA, embryonic similarities, ect.

Evolution does not even attempt to explain the origin of life. It deals with the diversity and complexity of life on earth.

Not sure if this video uploaded correctly

Is "germ theory" still "just a theory?" Its a common misconception in parlance

 

[Homo erectus]

You can check my thread on simulation hypothesis, but evolution is very much established. There is a common misconception on the colloquial definition of theory versus the actual scientific definition but for last 150 years it has been established. It's one of the four unifying theories of biology along with cell theory, the gene theory, theory of heredity, and the theory of evolution, and if any one of those four series is wrong, then all of the discoveries and technological breakthroughs would not have been possible. There is pretty much more evidence to support evolution than there is any other theory. Just off the top of my head the observed instances of evolution in fruit flies, indigenous retroviruses, the fossil record, male nipples, DNA, embryonic similarities, ect.

Evolution does not even attempt to explain the origin of life. It deals with the diversity and complexity of life on earth.

Not sure if this video uploaded correctly



Is "germ theory" still "just a theory?" Its a common misconception in parlance

It doesn't really matter. I am probably wrong. What does it change if the above theories are right or wrong, or this world is a simulation?

 

[sserafim]

If you're asking how life originated or arose, then look into a abiogenesis. The biogenesis deals more with chemistry and evolution deals more with biology.


Is life really that unique or just a random arrangement of amino acids? the chemical System that is life obeys the laws of kinetics and thermodynamics and while it is possibly the coolest most interesting phenomenon its not magical. Intelligent life does not seem inevitable in the same way, it just seems extraordinarily likely. In statistics there's something called the mediocrity principle, basically if you have a sample size of one chances are that, that is from the most common dataset.

Do you think that there's other life (intelligent or not) in the universe?

 

[DarkRange55]

It seems some kind of creationism might be true, not necessarily as some religions say, but in the style of "How do we know the world wasn't created 5 minutes ago?" History, evolution, and other theories about our past and origin are just extrapolation from our present knowledge. All lives coming from a single cell seems to be based on a lot of assumptions and imagination.

This world is possibly a simulation, a highly simplified version of the wider unknown universe. That's why everything is limited, subject to physical laws. Consciousness is a property of the universe, but we are experiencing only a small amount of it. What will happen after death? Probably nothing? Does death really matter? Probably not. But until the goal of simulation has been reached, life and death will continue to happen, in parallel and sequentially.

(Simulation hypothesis) is based on the assumption that simulations will be trivial for advanced intelligences, and that they will bother to do it.
there's a good chance humans might be a dream of somebody else, we might be the dream. When you have a strange dream they seem so real. There's a possibility one day we all wake up and all this was a dream - Certainly possible.

Much more likely is we be living in parallel universes, thats what a lot of the smartest scientists think. So I think that the reason prayer works is because there's parallel universes happening at the same time but each one with slight variations. The reason manifesting or prayer or positive thinking or if you're an atheist they use positive psychology. The reason that happens, is in the blink of an eye you switch into another universe and you don't realize it happened. If you're religious you call that a miracle. If you're a scientist you call that a time warp. And you just warp into another universe. This is basically it – your consciousness is in multiple universes until it gains new information that forces into one branch of universes. And if the branches controllable in any way, then it would explain a lot of mysticism, shamanism, prayer, etc..

It doesn't really matter. I am probably wrong. What does it change if the above theories are right or wrong, or this world is a simulation?

Thinking that it is simply a dream or simulation is probably not the best way to go through life functionally…

(Simulation hypothesis) is based on the assumption that simulations will be trivial for advanced intelligences, and that they will bother to do it.
there's a good chance humans might be a dream of somebody else, we might be the dream. When you have a strange dream they seem so real. There's a possibility one day we all wake up and all this was a dream - Certainly possible.

Much more likely is we be living in parallel universes, thats what a lot of the smartest scientists think. So I think that the reason prayer works is because there's parallel universes happening at the same time but each one with slight variations. The reason manifesting or prayer or positive thinking or if you're an atheist they use positive psychology. The reason that happens, is in the blink of an eye you switch into another universe and you don't realize it happened. If you're religious you call that a miracle. If you're a scientist you call that a time warp. And you just warp into another universe. This is basically it – your consciousness is in multiple universes until it gains new information that forces into one branch of universes. And if the branches controllable in any way, then it would explain a lot of mysticism, shamanism, prayer, etc..

Thinking that it is simply a dream or simulation is probably not the best way to go through life functionally…

It's also not very logically beneficial… like someone saying the meaning of their life that they personally choose to have is non-or nothing…

 

[DarkRange55]

Do you think that there's other life (intelligent or not) in the universe?

What do you and @Homo erectus think, first?

 

[sserafim]

What do you and @Homo erectus think, first?

Personally I believe that the universe is so vast that anything can happen. I believe that there is other intelligent life in the universe, it's just that we don't know about it. I think that humans are a bit prideful and egoistic to assume that they're the only intelligent ones in the universe.

 

[DarkRange55]

Personally I believe that the universe is so vast that anything can happen. I believe that there is other intelligent life in the universe, just that we don't know about it. I think that humans are a bit prideful and egoistic to assume that they're the only intelligent ones in the universe.

It's an interesting topic and I think it's interesting to a lot of people it's certainly interesting to me. It's the most fascinating thing to me, out of all the weird what if's and who could do this and how could that be true? The alien one is the most fascinating.
I am a person who is most comfortable dealing with facts. When I draw a conclusion about something is more often than not the result of step-by-step logic. With the issue of aliens it's mostly just speculation. The thing about UFO's and aliens and the whole concept of life elsewhere I really think that a lot has merit to it. I think that a lot of it is legitimate evidence. There may very well have been UFO visited the world. But there's also just so much evidence thats just crap. There's so many people that are just making crap up for whatever reason. So when you're looking at UFO & alien evidence you have to sort of sift threw all this crap to get to stuff that is legitimate and you have to use your own discretion to decide what is real and what isn't. None of the things that I saw were absolutely amazingly compelling evidence. There's some interesting stuff, stuff that very well could be true.
If I had to speculate about aliens which are simply life existing somewhere in the universe is definitely possible. And I would say even plausible. I guess I can use some logic here. Well, from a theoretical standpoint, I mean if the universe really is infinite, considering how many galaxies, how many solar systems, how many starts, how many planets the chances are very, very, very high that somewhere life exists beyond Earth. Because of the evolution of biological living organisms on this planet would serve as evidence that it is possible for that to be happening elsewhere. Therefor its definitely possible that something similar has happened, will happen, or is happening somewhere in the universe. Not only are chances good that life exists but chances are good that a wide spectrum of life exists. On some planets life is probably very basic. Single-cell organisms, some bacteria, maybe some plants, etc. Where on other planets the life is probably much more advanced. To me the question is not if life exists but rather if any of the life that does exist is advanced enough to know that we exist and to subsequently visit us. Possible, yeah. However, I wouldn't say that I believe that they exist until we discover proof of their existence. There's a lot of crazy speculation, conspiracy theories one might say. On this particular aspect of the alien issue I'm not even going to attempt to speculate. Although I do find stories like the one that broke a few years ago about the former NASA Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell, I find those very interesting.
Mostly natural phenomena and optical illusions, plus a lot of hoaxes, but there is some weird stuff out there that has physical reality, and there are secret military projects. As for extraterrestrial visitors, if they wanted us to know that they were here, we would know, and if they didn't want us to know we would never see them. I suppose it is possible that they don't care whether we know. But for the weirdest stuff, I have to answer "insufficient data".
Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and that's just our solar system. And the Milky Way Galaxy I don't know many solar systems there are and the entire universe which has however many galaxies I mean the chances of their being some sort of life, not saying humans or something as advanced as us or even half as advanced as us, the chances of their being bacteria or maybe even small the chances have to be high. And then to take it a step even further, we just talked about the universe, some scientists think and there's some evidence to believe that there are multiple universes, they call that the multiverse theory. So like our universe is just like a bubble in a bathtub, thats a good way to think of it. So we are on a planet, that is within a solar system, that is within a galaxy, that is within a universe, that is within a multiverse. I'm a hardcore believer in science and evidence, ect so I haven't been convinced by any stretch of the imagination that any of the things so far they haven't found anything but at some point… yeah. At some point yeah. You and I will never know but there will probably come a time if religion doesn't block science enough…
But it is interesting that now we're getting to the point where there's more of an admission from the government than we've ever seen previously. Area 51… is interesting. I don't know how much of the stuff is folklore and myth and how much of it is true but there might be certain segments of the government that know a hell of a lot more than other portions of the government.
Do I believe that aliens have come here? Not necessarily. I don't see why they would. (If I was an alien I would personally stay the fuck away from our solar system) And there's no guarantee that if there are aliens that they would be advanced enough to do that. I saw what I considered to be a UFO once. I saw a light in the sky that did weird shit that aircraft are not supposed to do. But I don't know what that was. So I don't assume it was an alien. It's a UFO, it's an unidentified flying object. So I don't know, I leave that one up to be proved.
I think I thought I saw some shit when I was a kid but as I got older I thought that was like a fighter jet or something that was that was. But I think it was a jet. I think it was something fast and unusual. You ever seen one of those stealth bombers? That looks like a fuckin' UFO. Have you ever seen one of those in the sky? It looks like a Star Wars movie. I saw an F-117 Nighthawk over Edwards Air Force Base. It looks like it's from another planet. It's beautiful though. What an amazing design. It looks like the future. So I think thats responsible for a bunch of the things that people saw. I think its military crafts. It's just some drone or some military vehicle.
The alien one is the most fascinating. The UFO thing is less preposterous than anything because we are currently sending space ships into orbit. We are currently sending probes to Mars. We're deeply involved in the exploration of our solar system at least with these robots and drones and things that we can control. That all makes 100% sense to me.

I don't discount them but I don't personally believe in them but I have had an alien experience on DXM, a psychedelic drug that was very intense and very real but it came from within. It was like getting in contact with the consciousness from within that was alien but somehow also myself. I've had psychedelic experiences where I felt like entities were coming out of me and going into the external world and I was generating them. I just think that we conceive them from a human perspective that if they're out there they're gonna be so different than anything that our human limitations can imagine that its gonna completely surprise us whatever they are - Personal archetypes like something within side you that you felt like you had been communicated with but it felt like it was apart of you - Satan is also one of those archetypes, too.

So yes, probably. I think that the chance that we are alone is very close to zero. As to why we have not been contacted, I like Star Trek's prime directive.