Discussion Do you think 'Lookism' exists + Do you think it is becoming a problem in today's world? (Examples: Making friends, Dating, Jobs, etc.).

[TheNihilisticViking]

Why do people always mention "in-cel" in conversations/discussions about certain topics regarding looks, attractiveness and appearance. Can anyone have a conversation without mentioning the term "in-cel", LOL!?! Like seriously? It's cringe whenever people mention that word because they just throw it around without any context or use it jokingly to attack/offend someone and they become shocked when someone fires words back at them. This is a forum to discuss mental health problems, problems in society and stuff that bothers people in the world. If people want to discuss "in-cel" they should go to another website forum instead of this one. That's another thing I despise about the world. This thread is about Lookism regardless of gender/race, etc.

 

[Adûnâi]

If people want to discuss "in-cel" they should go to another website forum instead of this one. That's another thing I despise about the world. This thread is about Lookism regardless of gender/race, etc.

Lookism is the core tenet of the Great Incel Theory of Everything, so it's relevant.

 

[Kariope]

Looks objectively impact your social life and status. The question is to what extend.
I think it really depends on who you are, what you want out of life and what social field we are talking about.

Let's say you are a man, if you are looking for love then all you will see is lookism, because it's so important in dating and in all venues where you meet people romantically or for hookups (e.g. clubs, bars, dating apps and so on). But there are other areas in life where your looks don't matter that much. For example: I doubt that attractiveness matters in friendships which have lasted for a long time. Your family will also probably not care that much about how attractive you are. There are a lot of people who are married despite not viewing their partner as conventionally attractive anymore. If you are in computer science you can probably get away with presenting yourself carelessly.

I don't think life is 100% over if you are ugly.

But you will never be a "popular", "charismatic" or "desired" and also ugly. Unless you are in the top 0.1% personality wise, which is basically even more unrealistic to achieve, and this hurts. Being rich doesn't count because that's a cheat code to life anyways.

Another way to look at it is also the amount you can get away with. If you are handsome, then you can be a social cripple and autistic af (no offense to autistic people), but you can get away with it. But if you are ugly, then you need to work on these areas or people will think horribly of you.

The family part is a lie. I'm constantly judged by my family because of my appearance. It's not even something I can control. I was born with this disease and It's not my fault I'm balding and treatment for it is expensive yet my family depreciates me for it. This is how bad lookism is!!! In my own family!!!! People who should love their child no matter what!!!!

 

[CheekyPhobia]

Absolutely. But it's never been as terrible of a problem as it is now in this digital era. And it's largely a problem for young males, older generations are already secured in their life, women arent affected by it. Its not negligible either: when the foundations of society start to rot, the whole building is bound to collapse.

 

[Kariope]

Absolutely. But it's never been as terrible of a problem as it is now in this digital era. And it's largely a problem for young males, older generations are already secured in their life, women arent affected by it. Its not negligible either: when the foundations of society start to rot, the whole building is bound to collapse.

Explain how you think women aren't affected by it? LOL
It's the one thing ruining my life. I get stares in public. It's probably the reason I can't fucking get a new job and I'm gonna end up homeless and starve.

 

[Forever Sleep]

...Then why the hell are people here disparaging of incels? That's literally the main tenet of the Great Incel Theory of Everything!

Personally, it's because incels tend to frame it like they are the only ones to suffer- as in the above post by @CheekyPhobia : 'women arent affected by it.' How do they know? Are they a woman? Even if they are (and they're probably not,) why do they feel qualified to speak for the whole female gender?!!

They're wrong by the way. Plenty of girls and women are deeply affected by lookism. Why do you think women are 1.75-3 times more likely to develop certain eating disorders? Of course- that has the downside for men that especially in the past, they weren't taken seriously but still- ED's are surely directly connected to beauty standards for at least some people.

It generally becomes a battle of the sexes when incels get involved which doesn't help anyone. All that anger should be focused towards society and culture that forms us into what we are. Whereas a lot of the time- it comes across more as personal aggression against women. Maybe they have reason for that. Maybe they've had particularly bad experiences with women but you can't really expect to have hostility and resentment met with love and compassion every time.

Probably some women would sympathise with the reasons behind the anger. We share them too! Women have been expected to comply to beauty standards too but that tends to be objected to for some reason. They always have it worse apparently. So- incels want sympathy but they give resentment in return. So- I'd say- it's not always the argument itself people- and especially women don't have sympathy for. It's the way in which it's presented.

 

[CheekyPhobia]

Personally, it's because incels tend to frame it like they are the only ones to suffer- as in the above post by @CheekyPhobia : 'women arent affected by it.' How do they know? Are they a woman? Even if they are (and they're probably not,) why do they feel qualified to speak for the whole female gender?!!

They're wrong by the way. Plenty of girls and women are deeply affected by lookism. Why do you think women are 1.75-3 times more likely to develop certain eating disorders? Of course- that has the downside for men that especially in the past, they weren't taken seriously but still- ED's are surely directly connected to beauty standards for at least some people.

It generally becomes a battle of the sexes when incels get involved which doesn't help anyone. All that anger should be focused towards society and culture that forms us into what we are. Whereas a lot of the time- it comes across more as personal aggression against women. Maybe they have reason for that. Maybe they've had particularly bad experiences with women but you can't really expect to have hostility and resentment met with love and compassion every time.

Probably some women would sympathise with the reasons behind the anger. We share them too! Women have been expected to comply to beauty standards too but that tends to be objected to for some reason. They always have it worse apparently. So- incels want sympathy but they give resentment in return. So- I'd say- it's not always the argument itself people- and especially women don't have sympathy for. It's the way in which it's presented.

I mean, that's a whole lot of conjecture based off of 5 words in my post. Perhaps the post was a tad dismissive but let's not pretend there's a level of parity in this part of life that's anywhere near equivalent, on average. Especially when it comes to support for those affected. Statistics don't lie and we've all seen the Pew research studies of recent. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-r...alentines-day-5-facts-about-single-americans/
Like most, I've had friend groups of both genders before and the differences in life experiences are vast. Kinda bad faith arguing to suggest otherwise. Framing it as a "personal aggression against women" is disingenuous at best. We all want the best for each other. I want women to be happy, just as I would like the same for myself.

Explain how you think women aren't affected by it? LOL
It's the one thing ruining my life. I get stares in public. It's probably the reason I can't fucking get a new job and I'm gonna end up homeless and starve.

Again, it was probably too much of a broad stroke in my original post and I'm sorry that you suffer in that way. Its miserable being looked at like a subhuman and treated as such. When you say stares, do you mean ones of disgust or aggression? The job thing is tough too especially when a lifetime of being treated poorly erodes any social skills you have.

 

[Adûnâi]

Explain how you think women aren't affected by it? LOL
It's the one thing ruining my life. I get stares in public. It's probably the reason I can't fucking get a new job and I'm gonna end up homeless and starve.

83% of homeless in England were male in 2017.

Homelessness

Q. How many people are sleeping rough in England? Q. How does this compare with previous years? Q. What is the Gender / Nationality breakdown? Q. What is the distribution of Rough Sleepers across the...

graphwise.weebly.com

The ironic thing is that if a girl is low on the accursed decile scale in terms of looks, she should pine _for incels_ - because chads would indeed be closed off. Because incels are desperate and thirsty - an incel cannot reject you by definition (otherwise he's a fakecel volcel).

They're wrong by the way. Plenty of girls and women are deeply affected by lookism. Why do you think women are 1.75-3 times more likely to develop certain eating disorders?

This is a curious point which might have an altogether different explanation. Both things might be true:
1. Women live a life on an easy mode.
2. Women have a lower pain threshold.

I for one am rather privileged (as much as an incel can be), but I'm still sad and lazy.

 

[Forever Sleep]

83% of homeless in England were male in 2017.

Homelessness

Q. How many people are sleeping rough in England? Q. How does this compare with previous years? Q. What is the Gender / Nationality breakdown? Q. What is the distribution of Rough Sleepers across the...

graphwise.weebly.com

The ironic thing is that if a girl is low on the accursed decile scale in terms of looks, she should pine _for incels_ - because chads would indeed be closed off. Because incels are desperate and thirsty - an incel cannot reject you by definition (otherwise he's a fakecel volcel).


This is a curious point which might have an altogether different explanation. Both things might be true:
1. Women live a life on an easy mode.
2. Women have a lower pain threshold.

I for one am rather privileged (as much as an incel can be), but I'm still sad and lazy.

Again- I'd have to disagree but- there will be exceptions. But- for a laugh- take a look on YouTube at guys with period/labour pain simulators on. I doubt women do have a lower pain threshold...

 

[Adûnâi]

take a look on YouTube at guys with period/labour pain simulators on. I doubt women do have a lower pain threshold...

Take a look at UAV footage in the Ukrainian war then. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no women there at all (although I'm not an expert).

By pain threshhold, I also meant emotional pain. Like those normies who killed themselves over a month of corona isolation in 2020, whereas incels live like that for decades.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I mean, that's a whole lot of conjecture based off of 5 words in my post. Perhaps the post was a tad dismissive but let's not pretend there's a level of parity in this part of life that's anywhere near equivalent, on average. Especially when it comes to support for those affected. Statistics don't lie and we've all seen the Pew research studies of recent. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-r...alentines-day-5-facts-about-single-americans/
Like most, I've had friend groups of both genders before and the differences in life experiences are vast. Kinda bad faith arguing to suggest otherwise. Framing it as a "personal aggression against women" is disingenuous at best. We all want the best for each other. I want women to be happy, just as I would like the same for myself.


Again, it was probably too much of a broad stroke in my original post and I'm sorry that you suffer in that way. Its miserable being looked at like a subhuman and treated as such. When you say stares, do you mean ones of disgust or aggression? The job thing is tough too especially when a lifetime of being treated poorly erodes any social skills you have.

Fair enough- my post used broad strokes too. We all go on our own experiences in life mostly- that feels the most genuine. If that's been your experience- I can't deny it. Plus, I can well imagine that guys maybe don't support each other as much but I don't know. I don't belong to either friend groups.

I wasn't calling your post in particular aggressive though. I was more saying in general terms, women aren't always sympathetic to incel posts because the tone sometimes feels aggressive towards them. Maybe that was too far though. The tone is usually resentful though and it mostly compares the gendres and claims that men have it worse- surely you'll agree with that I imagine because you see that as factual?

Whether you are right or wrong and I don't intend to argue it. But- honestly speaking- how do you feel about random strangers who know nothing about your life insisting that they have it worse? I think for a lot of people- it annoys them. It's dismissive of the other person's suffering before you even begin. At best- it's a kind of- I'll acknowledge your problems but ultimately- I deserve your sympathy more because I have it worse because I'm this gender. Then- there will be annoyance and resentment because women in particular aren't showing enough sympathy. Again- not in all cases.

The original post I replied to was asking why there seemed to be so little sympathy for the subject of lookism within the incel context. I was trying to suggest from a female perspective why maybe there is sometimes less sympathy- especially from wonen towards incel posts.

That all said- I'm sorry for taking a dig at you. It was unfair really. It's nice that you do want the best for everyone. So do I.

 

[Adûnâi]

The tone is usually resentful though and it mostly compares the gendres and claims that men have it worse- surely you'll agree with that I imagine because you see that as factual?

I guess, incels have to envy women because women can have relationships on demand. On the other hand, if an incel became a woman, he would probably pursue the chad the same way a woman does - because we are our bodies. (Remember that gen X comedy about exchanging bodies?)

So indeed, if we draw my point to its logical conclusion, I would have to recognise that we should all just shut up and stop moaning. But it's more fun to bitch.

how do you feel about random strangers who know nothing about your life insisting that they have it worse? I think for a lot of people- it annoys them. It's dismissive of the other person's suffering before you even begin.

I doubt incels would dismiss any kind of suffering but one - the notion of "femcels". Or anything connected to social support. Because that's salt on their wounds. That's one thing where females objectively have it better than incels. Hell, a girl online can get hundreds of DMs at a snap of her fingers. That ought to count for something? (Not denying that females may have much lower pain threshhold, so hundreds may not be enough.)

Then- there will be annoyance and resentment because women in particular aren't showing enough sympathy.

Very few incels are as delusional to blame women, a privileged caste, to show empathy for the downtrodden have-nots. Hell, in my limited experience, I've seen a few posts daydreaming about being a chad (being a woman is taboo for their macho culture, but it's the same - easy access to love) - and they were conflicted about whether they would care about the Great Incel Theory of Lookism. Probably not.

That all said- I'm sorry for taking a dig at you. It was unfair really.

You were? I didn't notice. The conversation has been nice and stimulating, and that's more that I can expect.

(The only way to offend me is apparently an inability to follow a logical argument, but it's impossible online, or at least such people are unable to write or respond to posts anyway - so it leaves only my mom whom I have to talk to (lest I stop using my vocal cords altogether), and she's sometimes this marvelously retarded.)

 

[Forever Sleep]

Take a look at UAV footage in the Ukrainian war then. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no women there at all (although I'm not an expert).

By pain threshhold, I also meant emotional pain. Like those normies who killed themselves over a month of corona isolation in 2020, whereas incels live like that for decades.

According to a simple web search- as of May 2023, 42,000 women are serving in Ukranian military formations:

Source: https://visitukraine.today/blog/180...nd-what-you-need-to-know-about-their-exploits

I didn't know that- that there was a change in suicide rates at the start of the corona virus. I'm no expert either but acording to this- it was only at the start amoungst youngsters in the US for example:

Suicide attempt rate change among young adults during COVID by gender U.S. 2021 | Statista

During the early period of the COVID-19 pandemic from March 29 to April 25, 2020, young women aged 18-25 years were around 21 percent less likely to visit the emergency department (ED) for suspected suicide attempts compared to the same time interval in 2019.

www.statista.com

I absolutely take your point that it could well be because women lost their support systems during that period although- in this day and age- not completely. They would have been in touch with their friends via social media/ phone/ text. It could also be that lots of people lost their jobs at that time and women do quite often work low paying jobs- so- don't have the savings to support themselves.

Interesting though- that you insinuate that suicide is an example of weakness in emotional pain threshold. So- does that not then mean then- for the rest of the time- when more men suicide than women- that the tables are turned? More women attempt suicide than men though statistically.

But- like all incel arguments, I'd much rather just leave it that both genders suffer. Honestly, I find it so tiring to fight for who has it worse! We're never going to agree! You have stuff in your life that's bad because you were born male. We have stuff in our lives that's bad because we were born female. Everybody suffers. Let's leave it at that!

 

[EndingEagle]

As someone who went from fat to not fat i can assure you its real. Not just in terms of dating but also on terms of how people people treat you in everyday life, smiling at you when you aproach instead of grimacing ,smiling when they bag your groceries ,being willing to give you directions or borrowing their phone, holding doors open etc. Its not how it should be but it is.

 

[Adûnâi]

According to a simple web search- as of May 2023, 42,000 women are serving in Ukranian military formations:

They're never at the frontlines. I'm not moving the goalposts. Everyone knows about women in militaries. It's just they don't serve their in the same capacity - another case of female privilege (unless you mean access to firearms lol).

I'm no expert either but acording to this- it was only at the start amoungst youngsters in the US for example:

Thanks for the research, but I meant Reddit hearsay, and incels gloating over it. But yeah, I'm not pretending to be a good defendant of that idea. I merely draw attention to it, hoping for someone more knowledgeable to pick up my torch.

So- does that not then mean then- for the rest of the time- when more men suicide than women- that the tables are turned?

No, because men suffer so much that even their high tolerance breaks. Or at least that's what my model describes.

Everybody suffers. Let's leave it at that!

This is true, but I guess, all incel problems would go away after repealing female rights to owning property - a tiny change to the legal system. Whereas we all suffer existential issues which only a grey goo solution would be fit to resolve.

I for one wouldn't be here if my granny brought me a waifu.

 

[Forever Sleep]

repealing female rights to owning property

Seriously? So all women are forced to be with a man or go homeless or pay rent at extortionate rates to... men? Wow. You'd see a massive spike in female suicides if you brought that one in! I'd definitely be outta here. Guessing you're not a fan of gay rights too... Guys will be ok but lesbians won't be. I think we better leave this here before it gets any more extreme!

 

[CheekyPhobia]

Fair enough- my post used broad strokes too. We all go on our own experiences in life mostly- that feels the most genuine. If that's been your experience- I can't deny it. Plus, I can well imagine that guys maybe don't support each other as much but I don't know. I don't belong to either friend groups.

I wasn't calling your post in particular aggressive though. I was more saying in general terms, women aren't always sympathetic to incel posts because the tone sometimes feels aggressive towards them. Maybe that was too far though. The tone is usually resentful though and it mostly compares the gendres and claims that men have it worse- surely you'll agree with that I imagine because you see that as factual?

Whether you are right or wrong and I don't intend to argue it. But- honestly speaking- how do you feel about random strangers who know nothing about your life insisting that they have it worse? I think for a lot of people- it annoys them. It's dismissive of the other person's suffering before you even begin. At best- it's a kind of- I'll acknowledge your problems but ultimately- I deserve your sympathy more because I have it worse because I'm this gender. Then- there will be annoyance and resentment because women in particular aren't showing enough sympathy. Again- not in all cases.

The original post I replied to was asking why there seemed to be so little sympathy for the subject of lookism within the incel context. I was trying to suggest from a female perspective why maybe there is sometimes less sympathy- especially from wonen towards incel posts.

That all said- I'm sorry for taking a dig at you. It was unfair really. It's nice that you do want the best for everyone. So do I.

I was a little crass as well. Sorry about that. Have a good day.

 

[Adûnâi]

You'd see a massive spike in female suicides if you brought that one in!

Eh, females dealt with it just fine in the past. You're underestimating normies, frankly. Of course, my ideal world would have free suicides for everyone, too.

And if it's any better, I'd offer you an honourary male ID in my dictatorship (it's all in my head anyway :)

 

[Forever Sleep]

I was a little crass as well. Sorry about that. Have a good day.

You too. All the best.

Eh, females dealt with it just fine in the past. You're underestimating normies, frankly. Of course, my ideal world would have free suicides for everyone, too.

And if it's any better, I'd offer you an honourary male ID in my dictatorship (it's all in my head anyway :)

That was the past... Women have gotten used to having more rights now! Besides- the past before your past- women were running the show! Matriarchal Goddesses rather than Gods. Even in Ancient Egypt, women could buy and inherit land. I'd suggest- if you want modern women to like you, show them more respect rather than less! People in general don't enjoy their rights and freedoms being taken from them. But- the assisted suicide bit sounds good.

 

[Adûnâi]

Besides- the past before your past- women were running the show! Matriarchal Goddesses rather than Gods.

The argument you're advancing is that it's a war, and tables turn along a cycle/spiral.

Regarding goddesses - I'm not a schizo, but Astaroth may have replied to me on 2023-07-25 because I cared about the girl.

if you want modern women to like you, show them more respect rather than less!

Now that's a bluepilled take. Do people seriously believe it to work? Sounds like a bad beta male joke.

(Not too sure whether that's relevant, but respect may turn into reverence, repulsing females... Or so was that experience, sole in my lifetime.)

 

[Forever Sleep]

The argument you're advancing is that it's a war, and tables turn along a cycle/spiral.

Regarding goddesses - I'm not a schizo, but Astaroth may have replied to me on 2023-07-25 because I cared about the girl.


Now that's a bluepilled take. Do people seriously believe it to work? Sounds like a bad beta male joke.

(Not too sure whether that's relevant, but respect may turn into reverence, repulsing females... Or so was that experience, sole in my lifetime.)

It WAS likely an aggressive take over from matriarchal to patriarchal society- indeed. Years ago I read a book on the mother Goddesses and they went from being revered in scripture to being raped by the conquering male Gods. I fully expect the women of that time did too.

Guessing your more of the 'treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen' line of thought? Guess that's appealing to some women. Do you really think- if you were honest with a women and told her that in your ideal world, she wouldn't be able to own property that she'd find that endearing?

On that note- how many incels own property to begin with? Women are attracted to money as well as looks. That's the other issue that I would actually agree with. Plenty of incels complain about that too- fair enough.

But in your world- who pays for the property and who owns it? Would you be expecting the woman to pay for half or more of the property and yet the man owns it?!! Great. Most households these days can't survive on just the man's income. All of my female friends work- even if they have children. Some of them earn more than their husbands! The world has changed so much. People are barely getting by as it is. If all that money that they both earn is controlled by the man- just yikes!

 

[Adûnâi]

It WAS likely an aggressive take over from matriarchal to patriarchal society- indeed.

Yeah, the same way how the feminists destroyed Nazi Germany in fire and blood. So the world goes in circles.

Guessing your more of the 'treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen' line of thought? Guess that's appealing to some women.

The very idea that women go for years in "abusive relationships" means that they like it. They could easily get another guy, but they don't.

Would I like to do it? No, because treating humans like means offends my sensibilities, and takes me uncomfortably close to my reality as a meat bag puppet myself.

Do you really think- if you were honest with a women and told her that in your ideal world, she wouldn't be able to own property that she'd find that endearing?

I meant a working political platform for my incel brothers suffering without handholding. Of course, such power would grow out of the barrel of the gun - as Mao Zedong said.

On that note- how many incels own property to begin with? Women are attracted to money as well as looks.

Huh, that's why I'm left-wing on economical issues? Lmao. But then, many incels are downcast because they don't want to put in the effort with no guarantee of female touch.

If all that money that they both earn is controlled by the man- just yikes!

> Women make up more than half of the U.S. population, and control or influence 85% of consumer spending
> Source, Forbes 2019

The Purchasing Power of Women: Statistics | Girlpower Marketing

Women control over $20 trillion in world-wide spending. Learn more about the purchasing power of women, from Millennials to Baby Boomers, in various markets

girlpowermarketing.com

P.S. I don't really want to argue on such complex issues, especially considering that I'm not a proper representative of incels myself, and that your sadness does not come from inceldom at all.

By the way, considering we have touched upon the strategies of treating females, the Girl I mentioned said in July that she had ghosted me because I revered her too much. And I wasn't saying anything creepy, I just wanted to support her every day because she was sad. But I fully recognise that maybe that's what turned her off. But then again, I wouldn't like to manipulate anyone - least of all her as I respected her this much, and she resented being seen a tool or a decoration.

(Yes, it happened. It's hilarious how I'm both a militant incel AND a simp. I'm not even ashamed, just getting my autistic exodia. Although technically, that Girl gave me so much that I could never repay the debt anyway.)

 

[Forever Sleep]

Yeah, the same way how the feminists destroyed Nazi Germany in fire and blood. So the world goes in circles.


The very idea that women go for years in "abusive relationships" means that they like it. They could easily get another guy, but they don't.

Would I like to do it? No, because treating humans like means offends my sensibilities, and takes me uncomfortably close to my reality as a meat bag puppet myself.


I meant a working political platform for my incel brothers suffering without handholding. Of course, such power would grow out of the barrel of the gun - as Mao Zedong said.


Huh, that's why I'm left-wing on economical issues? Lmao. But then, many incels are downcast because they don't want to put in the effort with no guarantee of female touch.


> Women make up more than half of the U.S. population, and control or influence 85% of consumer spending
> Source, Forbes 2019

The Purchasing Power of Women: Statistics | Girlpower Marketing

Women control over $20 trillion in world-wide spending. Learn more about the purchasing power of women, from Millennials to Baby Boomers, in various markets

girlpowermarketing.com

P.S. I don't really want to argue on such complex issues, especially considering that I'm not a proper representative of incels myself, and that your sadness does not come from inceldom at all.

By the way, considering we have touched upon the strategies of treating females, the Girl I mentioned said in July that she had ghosted me because I revered her too much. And I wasn't saying anything creepy, I just wanted to support her every day because she was sad. But I fully recognise that maybe that's what turned her off. But then again, I wouldn't like to manipulate anyone - least of all her as I respected her this much, and she resented being seen a tool or a decoration.

(Yes, it happened. It's hilarious how I'm both a militant incel AND a simp. I'm not even ashamed, just getting my autistic exodia. Although technically, that Girl gave me so much that I could never repay the debt anyway.)

I actually meant in your ideal world rather than this one... As in- would you expect women to still earn their own money but then have to give it to the husband for him to own the house? Personally- I think joint ownership on things is important but fair point- there are certainly women who take men to the cleaners after divorce. Plus yeah- plenty of women are only too happy to spend all their husbands hard earned cash... Yet- they stay too. There we go- I've never really understood relationships myself- even the good ones!

True though- abused women do stay sometimes. I'd be curious just how many came from childhoods with abuse in or witnessed abuse towards their own mothers. It often seems to repeat. In which case- it's not exactly that they enjoy it. It's because we tend to go for what we know. Maybe they weren't given enough of a sense of self worth and respect to feel like they shouldn't have to put up with all that. Either way- it's bad! I'm relieved you don't do it.

Sounds like neither of us are 'typical' of the stereotypes though. I'm not money grabbing. Your not women hating. All good.

 

[Adûnâi]

Maybe they weren't given enough of a sense of self worth and respect to feel like they shouldn't have to put up with all that. Either way- it's bad!

The issue is that from an evolutionary perspective, if abused women procreate, and self-respecting women don't, then abusing women is a good strategy. Literally.

(And if you think that's offensive - I offended the most Nazi person in the world by suggesting that burning children alive might have been beneficial, and that White people enacting child-protection laws are degenerate. I'm no stranger to such thought experiments.)

I'm relieved you don't do it.

Incels don't beat their wives, duh.

 

[Forever Sleep]

The issue is that from an evolutionary perspective, if abused women procreate, and self-respecting women don't, then abusing women is a good strategy. Literally.

(And if you think that's offensive - I offended the most Nazi person in the world by suggesting that burning children alive might have been beneficial, and that White people enacting child-protection laws are degenerate. I'm no stranger to such thought experiments.)


Incels don't beat their wives, duh.

Maybe it is a 'good' strategy for men in such a situation. How depressing!

Oh sorry- it sounded like you had a girlfriend who you weren't utterly vile to. True though- incels don't get the chance to beat up their potential partners. (Not that they all would of course.) Plenty of women don't want to take the risk though- which I think's fair enough. Apparently, in domestic abuse statistics, it's over 1 in 3 for women and 1 in 4 for men. Not sure why either want to take the risk! But there we go- I think I'm better off alone personally.

So sorry OP for utterly derailing your thread. I'll shut up now.

 

[Dot]

The very idea that women go for years in "abusive relationships" means that they like it. They could easily get another guy, but they don't.

Unbelvbly harmfl infrmatn & frnkly dsgustng

Info takn frm domestc violnce charty in UK

"
Here are just a few of the reasons that prevent a woman leaving:

Danger and fear
One of the most important reasons women don't leave is because it can be incredibly dangerous. The fear that women feel is very real – there is a huge rise in the likelihood of violence after separation.

41% (37 of 91) of women killed by a male partner/former partner in England, Wales and Northern Ireland in 2018 had separated or taken steps to separate from them. Eleven of these 37 women were killed within the first month of separation and 24 were killed within the first year (Femicide Census, 2020).

Isolation
Domestic abuse often relies on isolating the victim: the perpetrator works to weaken her connections with family and friends, making it extremely difficult to seek support. Perpetrators will often try and reduce a woman's contact with the outside world to prevent her from recognising that his behaviour is abusive and wrong. Isolation leads women to become extremely dependent on their controlling partner.

Shame, embarrassment or denial
Perpetrators are often well respected or liked in their communities because they are charming and manipulative. This prevents people recognising the abuse and isolates the woman further. The perpetrator often minimises, denies or blames the abuse on the victim. Victims may be ashamed or make excuses to themselves and others to cover up the abuse.

Trauma and low confidence
Imagine being told every day that you're worthless and the impact that this has on your self-esteem. Victims have very limited freedom to make decisions in an abusive relationship, they are often traumatised, regularly told 'you couldn't manage on your own, you need me'. Fear is constant and they live in a world of everyday terror.

Practical reasons
Abusers often control every aspect of their victim's life – making it impossible to have a job or financial independence. By controlling access to money women are left unable to support themselves or their children. They may fear having their children taken away or, if she has an insecure immigration status, may fear being deported. Asking for help is not easy. Misunderstandings about domestic abuse often prevents professionals from knowing what to do, how to talk about it or where to direct women disclosing abuse


& on tp of tht u wnt t/ rduce womns rghts

Thre = 0 plce on SaSu fr mysogny

 

[Adûnâi]

Maybe it is a 'good' strategy for men in such a situation. How depressing!

Eh, not for the men but for the population. In case of defeat, pretty sure being raped is better than to die gruesomely. Hence why the idea that females had it worse in pre-industrial times is so amusing.

Plenty of women don't want to take the risk though-

That's the privilege. I'd like to take any risk for the chance of handholding. (Alright, technically, I have some standards such as being under 37 and not fat - but fat Ukrainian women virtually don't exist, so it's effectively no standards at all.) (Although I will admit that I might not like handholding in the first place. But I will never see for myself.)

Regarding derailing the thread - it might have died anyway, so we kept its torturous existence going.

Oh sorry- it sounded like you had a girlfriend

Reading such words makes a strong impression on me. Like dry water, loud whisper or bright darkness. Or "nothing exists". (And I'm not vile - unless one would consider speaking one's mind such.)

 

[Forever Sleep]

Eh, not for the men but for the population. In case of defeat, pretty sure being raped is better than to die gruesomely. Hence why the idea that females had it worse in pre-industrial times is so amusing.


That's the privilege. I'd like to take any risk for the chance of handholding. (Alright, technically, I have some standards such as being under 37 and not fat - but fat Ukrainian women virtually don't exist, so it's effectively no standards at all.) (Although I will admit that I might not like handholding in the first place. But I will never see for myself.)

Regarding derailing the thread - it might have died anyway, so we kept its torturous existence going.


Reading such words makes a strong impression on me. Like dry water, loud whisper or bright darkness. Or "nothing exists". (And I'm not vile - unless one would consider speaking one's mind such.)

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Dot]

Usrs nd t/ remmbr tht thre r also mny womn on SaSu wh/ hve bn rapd & SA & commnts sch as 'rpe = bettr thn deth' & 'womn sty in abusve rlatnshpsbcse thy lke it' = nt only incrrct fr mny womn bt also xtremly triggrng

Pls kp incel rhetorc t/ th/ incel frums

 

[Adûnâi]

Pls kp incel rhetorc t/ th/ incel frums

Thanks for not banning me outright! Since I got to socialise on some Discords in a limited capacity this year (thanks to that fateful experience with the Girl), I have learned to keep mum when faced with a moderator - but now that I've been warned, I could respond.

...I won't defend myself, just say that being an incel is the primary cause of my suicidality (aside from the general social isolation, autism, and the prospect of conscription).

Of course, I will try to stop talking about the general issues of inceldom if it is unwelcome in this abode. (My words carry neither harm to women nor utility to my incel brothers, they're utterly useless - just as everything else in my life.)

I will say, however, that "female" seems to me a highly neutral word, and I was surprised to learn that it's considered pejorative? Like, on official forms, you put a checkmark next to "male/female" - that's as official as it gets, no? Besides, saying girl/woman has always seemed far more offensive to me, because it splits females based on their sexual experience.

I actually hate how in Russian/Ukrainian, we do not have a comparably neutral term - we have "samka", but it is used exclusively in biology, and would be highly offensive when applied to humans. But I'm not disputing the warning, thanks for the communication! (I am not using incel terms for women precisely because they are not neutral either. That's my rationale anyway - to the one curious enough to read my account. I always write with the audience in mind - because I'm usually a quiet lurker myself.)