Discussion Do you think everyone that ctb must have a mental illness?

[TDF]

Do you think anyone that contemplated ctb or have attempted or have succeeded all must have had a mental illness?

 

[sadscotsman]

No, I don't think so. Some people go through their entire life fine, experience a loss and then CTB immediately. Loss can make a person feel depressed but it doesn't inherently mean they have depression, you know? Some of them have attempted in situations like that, failed and then healed through the grief without actually getting diagnosed with anything in the end. I'm definitely not gonna deny that it probably skews heavily towards more of us being mentally ill than not, but yeah.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Hell no. I don't think I have any mental illnesses. I'm just depressed and the thing that has caused my depression is life's circumstances. I don't consider a depression caused by life as a mental illness. I can think just fine and make very rational decisions based on my circumstances. Would you find someone who was depressed and just tired of going on any longer, who has no quality of life, who is in extreme agony caused by disease, illness, accident, etc, maybe someone who is confined to a bed and are having to be fed by someone else and have their ass wiped by someone else, who wanted to kill themselves, mentally ill? I wouldn't. Seems rational to me. And who better to make that decision but the person living in that body and experiencing that life. I'm not saying the aforementioned are my circumstances. They're not. But, it's the same principle. My life sucks. It's not going to get any better. I'm tired. And it's way too late to make any meaningful changes in order to make it better.

 

[Kerrtu]

Quite simply, no.

To expand, I feel many people who have decided to CTB have been in situations so horrific, it's a reasonable, dare I say rational response to trauma. Am I cheering them from the sidelines? No - I feel sad to hear of and see people desperate, in the streets.

Last November, there were some days that were frigid. I like cold, and even those particular days the air felt like a slap in the face. Just bitter cold and wind. I had a therapy appointment, and I was in the office, looking out the window at this cluster of tents. I could hear people screaming from the cold - when the wind picked up, it was maddening. I gestured outside to the therapist - these people were freezing to death out there. I wanted to take them all home, I didn't know what else to do. Therapist just looked away.



By the time I had my next appointment, city council had cleared that cluster of tents and what little those people had. Left them with nothing.

There's the argument "Well, if someone is living in a tent, they must've messed up bad and/or be mentally ill" but no, the bottom can fall out and life can change in an instant. Suicide isn't exclusive to those with mental illness.

 

[Ongoing_trainwreck]

Do you think anyone that contemplated ctb or have attempted or have succeeded all must have had a mental illness?

No. Difficult life situations like bankruptcy or getting divorced will have let to suicide in "mentally healthy" people.

But most people that formed suicidal thoughts, will have become mentally unwell in the process.

 

[leavingsoon99]

No.

"It is no mark of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society"
- Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

[wanttodie]

no

 

[hodbu]

Do you think anyone that contemplated ctb or have attempted or have succeeded all must have had a mental illness?

No of course not.

The issue is why people keep assuming that maybe someone's life doesn't suck enough to make them not wish to continue living.

For instance, if I know that I will have to continue to struggle for the next 40 years just to make a living and have a roof over my head, to me I'd rather NOT suffer and give my labor to cheapass capitalism and just go now peacefully in hopes for a better future in the next life (or whatever the beyond.)

 

[sayire]

Do you think anyone that contemplated ctb or have attempted or have succeeded all must have had a mental illness?

no, not at all, it is not a must.

but typically one gets to contemplate about suicide as an end result of progression of state of living situation/condition (quality of life - ending life feels less painful than living it).

I will start with, do healthy people get sick? Happens all the time, people catch flu, cancer etc.
Now flu was from external influence lets say environment. And cancer is more internal happened within ones body.
Similar to getting physically sick one can get mentally sick. That can happen due to environment which is essentially circumstance or more due to medications or internal to body itself (many chronic conditions can lead to this).

So healthy people can get "mentally sick" same as getting flu or cancer that can lead to death via suicide.

People die of accidents too and not just from sickness. Similarly a drastic change of living situation / condition can change to create "mental accident" when one can loose all control and impulsively attempt to suicide. this is not a long existing or deteriorating situation but more like an accident analogy.

So not all suicides are due to mental health deteriorating to the point of calling mentally sick (say depression or more acute than that).

Now lets consider this, it is estimated ~0.5% of folks in US actually attempt suicide every year. ~3% of those actually succeed. I would think perhaps 10x of people who actually attempt probably would have had serious thoughts about it, so lets say ~5-10% of people would have contemplated about suicide.

~5-10% is too high a number for the number of people to have a systemic mental illness.

so I would say a majority of people who contemplate suicide actually do not have any mental illnesses at all.

maybe a majority of folks who actually attempt had mental state deteriorate to the point of clinical depression if they were evaluated. and finally it is not same as physical sickness but I think it is due to sick circumstances in majority of cases.

 

[ToTheTwillight]

No of course not.

The issue is why people keep assuming that maybe someone's life doesn't suck enough to make them not wish to continue living.

For instance, if I know that I will have to continue to struggle for the next 40 years just to make a living and have a roof over my head, to me I'd rather NOT suffer and give my labor to cheapass capitalism and just go now peacefully in hopes for a better future in the next life (or whatever the beyond.)

I'm in the same boat. I need the hustler, negotiation, and people skills to turn my technical work into something monetarily valuable, but it's not good enough so fuckbags will steal it from me and my response to having to be a slave worker to capitalism consequently makes me say 'fuck that'...

 

[MrDarkness]

It's not natural to want to kill yourself, like your brain isn't working right, there is no shame in it, is it a mental illness? No I'd say it isn't just your brain is wired different. No shame in wanting to die

 

[suicidalloser]

no, nor would i care if otherwise. i just want to die.

 

[hellispink]

No. Everyone has their reasons sometimes its merely existencial and philosophical. Sometimes its boredom. Sometimes its being disappointed with society among other stuff. Living is a choice.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Do you think anyone that contemplated ctb or have attempted or have succeeded all must have had a mental illness?

No, not at all. There are many personal reasons why someone wants to or does CTB. All reasons are indivicual in my opinion and all reasons are legit.

 

[90starve]

i don't believe this is the case - as others have already mentioned, there are just so many circumstances one can find themselves in that may lead to a rational choice to CTB. this includes terminal illness, poverty, drug addiction, abuse - not all need to be accompanied by a mental illness, but may still result in CTB.

 

[Forever Sleep]

No. Do you suppose people with chronic physical illnesses are 'crazy' for wanting to end it? I expect people with incredibly difficult life circumstances would sometimes rather just end it rather than carry on and fight (a likely losing battle.) MAYBE they have developed depression because of their circumstances- which IS considered a mental illness but- maybe not.

Where I agree is that wanting to kill yourself isn't a 'natural act'. It goes against the natural instinct to survive and reproduce. So- are people who choose not to reproduce mentally ill? I imagine most people would say- no- they've come to that decision rationally. Many I expect have made the decision for environmental reasons but also- because they can see what kind of world this is. They don't feel it fair to introduce a new life here. So- how is it rational to not want to expose a new life to this but it's irrational to want to leave yourself? How 'natural' do you suppose we are anyway? What does a perfectly 'normal' brain look like?

Beyond all that though- even if someone DOES have a mental illness- does that mean they can't make decisions for themselves... and others? Why are people with mental illnesses fit to work then? If we can't make rational decisions- surely we're a liability and we should all be on benefits. I'd be happy to go for that- give me benefits if you think I'm too mentally ill to make decisions- or- acknowledge that I can think rationally and either assist me in going or- don't try to stop me.

Do you suppose ALL mental illnesses can be 'cured'? Why is mental illness treated differently than physical illness anyway? Because they are so crap at diagnosing it perhaps?!! (It seems to me.) Because mental illness isn't fatal? It decimates a person's quality of life though.

Someone who is paralyzed all over and unable to speak likely isn't going to die from it if they've been stabalised. Yet- they will likely consider their application for assisted suicide over someone suffering from chronic mental illness that doesn't show physically as much (I assume.) I've even heard here that a psychiatrist said that the patient should 'hang on' because a cure is likely just around the corner. Would the same be said to a cancer patient? I somehow doubt it.

People with mental illness ARE still suffering. Many people will agree it isn't fair or humane to let people suffer when they can't be cured physically. The same ought to apply for mental illness. EVEN if their ideation is BECAUSE of their mental illness. Someone in chronic pain may wish to die BECAUSE of their physical illness. People with terrible mental/ emotional anguish may want to die BECAUSE of that. What's the difference if neither can be cured?

 

[Orbitc]

Of course not. I think that it is reasonable to commit suicide if you understand that your life is bad and you cannot change it and just suffer senselessly. And this suffering will not give you the prospect of improving something in the future. Why prolong suffering? Why you should suffer when you know that nothing can be changed - for example, because of a disease that is progressing and etc? I don't consider all types of depression as a disease - because it can be a healthy reaction to circumstances - I mean, it's not normal to have fun at the funeral of a loved one, for example

 

[befree]

No, of course not. But this is what the majority of people think. And that's why you often end up in a psychiatric ward after a failed suicide attempt.

 

[FuneralCry]

No, of course not, wanting to die isn't an "illness" I see it as being a logical response to having awareness of the fact that existence isn't worth enduring, we are destined for nothing and nowhere but to die anyway so I would always see it as preferable to leave on my own terms, escaping from all future unnecessary suffering.

I think the true irrational thing is wishing to exist in this harmful and dangerous world where there is unlimited potential to suffer, death is the only relief for me as I believe it to be the end of everything, in non-existence there is no more suffering, all the problems started as a result of existence. I see existence in itself as being the true problem which for me can only be solved by death.

 

[TDF]

Thanks for all your responses, it's a resounding no! I agree, a traumatising event, or circumstances behind our control like poverty, illness, really anything and their corresponding long term impacts on your life can lead to tipping the scale for someone to logically conclude life is too difficult. The fragility of life, things can be all taken away so quickly.

What does everyone else think?