S
surewhynot
Member
- May 21, 2023
- 28
When I went vegan for 3 months I wasn't angry. Got guilted into eating meat again when the holidays came around.
As you know, censorship around the world has been ramping up at an alarming pace. The UK and OFCOM has singled out this community and have been focusing its censorship efforts here. It takes a good amount of resources to maintain the infrastructure for our community and to resist this censorship. We would appreciate any and all donations.
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Sorry I took so long to see this. I believe that happiness is the ultimate and only good and that unhappiness is the only bad. I believe that happiness (satisfaction, pleasure, fulfillment, etc.) is a tool of evolution that rewards behaviors that typically lead to a higher chance of survival and that unhappiness (pain, discomfort, stress, etc.) punishes behaviors that typically decrease chances of survival. I believe that that this is how we are biologically programmed and that it is the core of all of our behavior."Animals eat each other in the wild"
That's a bad thing. Getting eaten alive hurts. It doesn't matter whether it's natural or not.
Why does this matter? It is a simple fact of nature. The entire reason that pain exists is because the prey should try to not get hunted. And the entire reason that hunger exists is to continue the cycle. Do you think otherwise? If so, why? The pigs are meant to feel pain. We protect our young just because they're humans, because we want our society to thrive. We are greedy.
"Does that make lions evil"
No because they don't have the capacity for ethics. If they did then the best course of action (seeing as they're carnivores) would be to willingly die out so as not to hurt any other animals.
Think about why ethics exists for a moment. I am interested to see what answer you come up with. Maybe it differs from mine, and that is fine. I just want to see why you think human ethics should be applicable to animals. There are no wrong answers :)
"But if predators didn't exist, nature would fall apart"
Yes but they do exist and likely aren't going anywhere. It's not feasible to completely get rid of suffering but we can absolutely minimize it by not constantly making animals just to kill them later.
The same is true for non-vegetarian humans :) For the most part at least, in the foreseeable future.
"Vegan products too expensive and ostracizes poor people"
They're usually cheaper tbh but if you can't afford them, don't go vegan. As long as most people go vegan it'll be a net positive.
I actually agree with this. I often find vegan products to be cheaper. I don't specifically buy meat since it doesn't matter to me, I suppose it depends on how important meat is to the person.
"What if it's your religion/culture to eat meat?"
Your religion/culture is responsible for countless deaths and you should stop adhering to it.
To countless deaths of animals. We still haven't gotten to the explaining why killing animals is bad.
"What if someone is stranded in the jungle and has to in order to survive?"
Weigh your options. Try to mathematically figure out if your life more valuable than the animals that feed you. It might be more ethical to just die.
Can you really mathematically compare your life to an animal? Is there really such an objective metric? I love math, and I'd love to see the math you come up with. Please show me why you think that mathematically my life may be worth less than the ones of countless animals, or of countless humans.
I think that the most important factor is how important is your life to you? Are you selfish enough to kill animals for your own gratification to satisfy your tastebuds? Are you selfish enough to kill them whenv forced to for survival? Or are you selfless enough to sacrifice yourself instead? Can these really be weighed, and one be determined as objectively better? Maybe. Maybe if you have a goal in mind. Maybe, if that goal is that humans thrive in society, you make murder illegal, and the death of humans heavily frowned upon. Maybe if your goal is for animals to thrive, you will view ethics differently. I want to be wrong, because it is interesting to understand a more correct perspective, so if you think I am wrong, feel free to enlighten me with your correct perspective :)
I'll ask vegans I know! I don't have pets, I'm too irresponsible hahaI'm wondering how many vegans have pets at home (especially cats and dogs). Does a vegan really think that the meat cats and dogs eat every day was raised and slaughtered in a more human way than the meat we humans would eat? I respect everyones decision to live vegan/vegie/meat-eater whatever. But to say I'm vegan because I don't want animals to suffer is questionable when a vegan/veggie buys meat for their pets.
THISSSLet me address the main argument I hear:
"Animals eat each other in the wild"
That's a bad thing. Getting eaten alive hurts. It doesn't matter whether it's natural or not.
"Does that make lions evil"
No because they don't have the capacity for ethics. I