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Doctors HATE them

She/they
Nov 16, 2022
82
I'm unfortunately not a vegan because I'm a loser who cares more about not being embarrassed by family and fitting in than the lives of animals. With that said I think a lot about how vegans are portrayed as annoying and forcing their views on others. I think it's just meat eaters being insecure that they're slaughtering countless animals just cause they taste good. Like when it comes down to it you SHOULDN'T be killing animals with the capacity for pain unless it's to end suffering. When someone is rightfully outraged that animals are getting killed for no good reason, it's twisted into "forcing views onto people."

Pigs have the intelligence of a 3 year old human iirc. To hold them to a lower standard than a 3 year old human is just dumb imo.

Let me address the main argument I hear:
"Animals eat each other in the wild"
That's a bad thing. Getting eaten alive hurts. It doesn't matter whether it's natural or not.
"Does that make lions evil"
No because they don't have the capacity for ethics. If they did then the best course of action (seeing as they're carnivores) would be to willingly die out so as not to hurt any other animals.
"But if predators didn't exist, nature would fall apart"
Yes but they do exist and likely aren't going anywhere. It's not feasible to completely get rid of suffering but we can absolutely minimize it by not constantly making animals just to kill them later.
"Vegan products too expensive and ostracizes poor people"
They're usually cheaper tbh but if you can't afford them, don't go vegan. As long as most people go vegan it'll be a net positive.
"What if it's your religion/culture to eat meat?"
Your religion/culture is responsible for countless deaths and you should stop adhering to it.
"What if someone is stranded in the jungle and has to in order to survive?"
Weigh your options. Try to mathematically figure out if your life more valuable than the animals that feed you. It might be more ethical to just die.
 
Last edited:
U

Unending

-
Nov 5, 2022
1,517
I've actually been thinking about this lately. It's a really respectable thing in my opinion to take suffering seriously whether it is that of a human or a different type of animal. I have considered cutting out meat from my diet again but everytime that I try to, I just stop eating all together because I have a horrendous appetite as it is.
 
CowsAgainstCapitali

CowsAgainstCapitali

Member
Dec 11, 2022
93
I did vegan for a while. I did it because I was trying to be a better person and cause less harm. I quit drinking, I went to therapy and I felt great. I still believe it's a healthy lifestyle - one that my suicidal self recommends to anyone seeking a long happy life.

We all see how destructive the society we have built is, and we look for ways to reduce our impact. If you think about how the majority of animals in food production are treated, you will rightly be angry, and probably disgusted too.

I kept it up for about a year (having a veg SO helped) The reason I went back on meat wasn't a very good one = broke+depressed = I jus ate what was availible and told myself "Nothing I did mattered." In my year of trying to be my best self and encourage others to do the same, I burned up all my availible energy. And I saw that my actions and even the actions of super militant vegans just .... didn't amount to anything. It's defeatist attitude.

I'm still angry at the near and dairy industry, because I think no matter what someone eats we could all agree that the treatment of food animals is disgusting.
 
dreambound

dreambound

Member
Dec 14, 2021
98
just a thought....what if there was a law change & the general public (if they wanted to eat meat) had to
drive out to a grazing paddock, change into a pair of overalls so their office clothes wouln't get blood
stained, pick up a rifle, kill the animal, winch it up on a pulley tied to a tree & gut it.......
......you may find alot of people would be uncomfortable with this...
Things are the way they are because people are happy to shelve responsibility & accept they don't
have to think about the violence that is done on their behalf.
.....just because something has been done for centuries doesn't make it right.
.....................gosh! that was a bit preachy, i need to calm down
 
Sparr0w

Sparr0w

please feed my pfp crumbs they are begging u
Jan 24, 2023
300
Life feeds on life. That's just the way it is.

Why be angry about it?
as humans we have the resources and option to not eat meat, unlike most carnivorous animals. we also the the self-reflection capablities to think about what we're consuming.
as such, if you're going to continue eating meat, please do so with the knowledge that animals suffered for it, when you could've bought something else. to be fair, the animal was already long gone by the time you're buying it, but more people going vegan = less reason/profit to farm animals.

i'm not asking you to go vegan, i'm not vegan myself :) i have been trying out a few more vegan dishes though, lol
 
strawberrysuffering

strawberrysuffering

Member
Nov 25, 2022
35
I'm unfortunately not a vegan because I'm a loser who cares more about not being embarrassed by family and fitting in than the lives of animals. With that said I think a lot about how vegans are portrayed as annoying and forcing their views on others. I think it's just meat eaters being insecure that they're slaughtering countless animals just cause they taste good. Like when it comes down to it you SHOULDN'T be killing animals with the capacity for pain unless it's to end suffering. When someone is rightfully outraged that animals are getting killed for no good reason, it's twisted into "forcing views onto people."

Pigs have the intelligence of a 3 year old human iirc. To hold them to a lower standard than a 3 year old human is just dumb imo.

Let me address the main argument I hear:
"Animals eat each other in the wild"
That's a bad thing. Getting eaten alive hurts. It doesn't matter whether it's natural or not.
"Does that make lions evil"
No because they don't have the capacity for ethics. If they did then the best course of action (seeing as they're carnivores) would be to willingly die out so as not to hurt any other animals.
"But if predators didn't exist, nature would fall apart"
Yes but they do exist and likely aren't going anywhere. It's not feasible to completely get rid of suffering but we can absolutely minimize it by not constantly making animals just to kill them later.
"Vegan products too expensive and ostracizes poor people"
They're usually cheaper tbh but if you can't afford them, don't go vegan. As long as most people go vegan it'll be a net positive.
"What if it's your religion/culture to eat meat?"
Your religion/culture is responsible for countless deaths and you should stop adhering to it.
"What if someone is stranded in the jungle and has to in order to survive?"
Weigh your options. Try to mathematically figure out if your life more valuable than the animals that feed you. It might be more ethical to just die.
Absolutely agreed
 
kushykush

kushykush

Member
Mar 25, 2023
9
Life feeds on life. That's just the way it is.

Why be angry about it?
super agree. at times i think about slaughter farms and shit like that and it's not nice to think abt. but at the end of the day i really just don't care? that might be a harsh way of putting it but it's just the way the world works. the circle of life as some may say. and i love my meat so🤷‍♀️
 
D

Doctors HATE them

She/they
Nov 16, 2022
82
super agree. at times i think about slaughter farms and shit like that and it's not nice to think abt. but at the end of the day i really just don't care? that might be a harsh way of putting it but it's just the way the world works. the circle of life as some may say. and i love my meat so🤷‍♀️
If given the opportunity, would you rewrite reality and physics to make it so that animals don't need to feed on each other and can just exist as long as they want?
 
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Wonderly

Wonderly

Wonders....
Mar 28, 2023
6
as humans we have the resources and option to not eat meat, unlike most carnivorous animals. we also the the self-reflection capablities to think about what we're consuming.
as such, if you're going to continue eating meat, please do so with the knowledge that animals suffered for it, when you could've bought something else. to be fair, the animal was already long gone by the time you're buying it, but more people going vegan = less reason/profit to farm animals.

i'm not asking you to go vegan, i'm not vegan myself :) i have been trying out a few more vegan dishes though, lol
Very true, I am not vegan myself but there are out there some products that are replaceable for meat, like the texture or the proteins from it. I remember 2 years ago i only ate soya for a week (like beans and soya) and i felt okay during the fast (idk the word in english, but it is that week before easter in christian religion, the ortodocs one, to not eat meat or eggs, cheese and stuff like that)
 
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Homo erectus

Homo erectus

Mage
Mar 7, 2023
560
In the past famine was common. Raising animals for meat would compete for the crops that would otherwise feed human directly. Going vegan helped to reduce the pressure on food supply.

But in the modern world there is no real shortage of crops. Famine and hunger are often political, for example trade sanction, lockdown and war. There is one fewer reason to go vegan than in the past. A plant based balanced diet with some meat is healthy for human.

Hunger (food shortage) is just manufactured fear to make people work: if you don't work you will be hungry. This sounds like fairy tales. Farming accounts for only a tiny fraction of jobs in the modern globalized world. If all people just want to eat for survival, everyone would only need to work very little.

Having said that, people can work a bit harder to make animals happy when they are alive: better animal welfare, more space, more exercise, less fertilizers, pesticides, antibiotics. Sad and angry animals probably contain bad chemicals that will pass to their eaters and affect health.
 
tiredangelgirl

tiredangelgirl

i'm sorry i'm trying my best
Aug 1, 2022
76
vegan here for 7 years. not angry, just jaded and sad and disappointed in the world for how little care humanity has. I would be lying if I said that humans disregard for animals isn't a part of why I plan to ctb.

whenever people try to argue veganism, I don't have energy for it anymore. I just tell people it's the fundamentals of doing what's wrong vs right. people will always choose whatever is convenient or easiest and that's fine
 
KarmicRain

KarmicRain

Member
Mar 27, 2023
62
I personally eat meat because I could not care in the slightest about animals that I do not have direct relation to. like if it were My dog I'd care but if it were a dog in another country in an alley, I might care less but I'd still be thinking it's fucked up since i had a dog. Now farm animals on the other hand, I've never cared about in the slightest. They are literally just a resource to people.
This is because Humans are innately biased toward themselves: they believe they are superior since acting otherwise would result in inconvenience. If we suddenly stopped eating animal meat, we'd theoretically be able to get nutrients from other sources but it would be a massive pain compared to not changing anything. This is especially true economically; you'd have to completely gut the meat industry and they're a massive one.

most people just give less innate value to beings other than human unless they formed a relationship with one (like a pet). In turn, they can eat meat without batting an eye since they are already used to it and living without it would be inconvenient (and a pain to change on a societal level). If our moral compass was strong enough, we'd have changed already but look at the way a working class human is treated: terribly.

here look:
owner<-worker ($$$)
person<-animal (animal products)

the same way we see animals as a resource, business owners treat workers as one. it's fucked up but that's our reality. if we can't even treat humans with moral decency, how can you expect us to treat animals with it?
 
Madao

Madao

Certified MADAO (She/her)
Mar 30, 2023
35
Yes actually, I was thinking about this the other day. I'm not a vegan myself and probably never will be but I can see their point. We domesticate animals, give them food, shelter, water, and then slaughter them so we devour them. From my understanding vegans really empathize with these animals, which I can't argue against. And because of that empathy I believe what they're trying to do is try to get humans as a species out of the chain of "kill to survive" and find alternatives for meat without killing any animals in the process. At their heart they just love animals. And in my opinion humans can create meat without killing animals with science soon and sometime in the future we won't be killing animals. :)


I'll be devouring my meat in the meantime though
 
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Dead Ghost

Dead Ghost

Mestre del Temps
May 6, 2022
1,332
For me, most food hurts me and meat is the least bad for me. I haven't eaten fruit for years and I also stopped eating vegetables (it was a continuous discomfort much more exaggerated than the one I currently have with meat... even so fish also makes me feel bad).

In my case the solution would be artificial food (if it existed) because becoming vegan is not an option... I can't even eat bread, only if it is well toasted... today I had chickpeas and as always when I prepare them I remove the hull or peel them because otherwise I spend the afternoon with nausea (and even now I feel sick, something that had not happened to me for a long time).

//

A mi es que la majoría del menjar que menjo em fa mal i concretament la carn és el que menys mal em fa. Ja fa anys que no prenc fruita i vaig també deixar de prendre verdures (era un malestar continuo bastant més exagerat del que tinc actualment amb la carn.. tot i així el peix també em fa mal).

En el meu cas la sol·lució passaría pel menjar artificial (si existís) perquè tornar-me vegà no és una opció.. es que ni pà puc prendre, només si està ben torrat.. avuí he prés cigrons i com sempre que els preparo els hi trec la clofolla o pela perquè sino em paso la tarda amb nàusees (i fins i tot ara mateix tinc malestar, cosa que feia temps que no em passava).
 
OceanBlue

OceanBlue

Feminist
Jun 13, 2021
702
I'm very angry, humans pay for animals to be tortured for a meal, handbag, winter coat.. and go on forums to complain about their own problems. Looking at how ugly we are to others, we deserve to suffer.

IMO carnists should end up in carnist hell after death, where 'higher intelligence' beings treat them the same way. There they can scream all they want in their 'primitive' human language whilst being dismembered, no one will acknowledge they are in pain and obviously objecting to this treatment.
 
BasqueClown

BasqueClown

Zirkua ata heriotza
Jun 9, 2022
121
I'm currently ovo lacto vegetarian but I had difficulties to understand vegan ethics. My best friend in high school was and she always tried to convince me to join her activities for the animals and stuff.
But surely, I don't feel guilty of eating animals yet ...
 
darklight442

darklight442

Member
Mar 31, 2023
12
I'm unfortunately not a vegan because I'm a loser who cares more about not being embarrassed by family and fitting in than the lives of animals. With that said I think a lot about how vegans are portrayed as annoying and forcing their views on others. I think it's just meat eaters being insecure that they're slaughtering countless animals just cause they taste good. Like when it comes down to it you SHOULDN'T be killing animals with the capacity for pain unless it's to end suffering. When someone is rightfully outraged that animals are getting killed for no good reason, it's twisted into "forcing views onto people."

Pigs have the intelligence of a 3 year old human iirc. To hold them to a lower standard than a 3 year old human is just dumb imo.

Let me address the main argument I hear:
"Animals eat each other in the wild"
That's a bad thing. Getting eaten alive hurts. It doesn't matter whether it's natural or not.
"Does that make lions evil"
No because they don't have the capacity for ethics. If they did then the best course of action (seeing as they're carnivores) would be to willingly die out so as not to hurt any other animals.
"But if predators didn't exist, nature would fall apart"
Yes but they do exist and likely aren't going anywhere. It's not feasible to completely get rid of suffering but we can absolutely minimize it by not constantly making animals just to kill them later.
"Vegan products too expensive and ostracizes poor people"
They're usually cheaper tbh but if you can't afford them, don't go vegan. As long as most people go vegan it'll be a net positive.
"What if it's your religion/culture to eat meat?"
Your religion/culture is responsible for countless deaths and you should stop adhering to it.
"What if someone is stranded in the jungle and has to in order to survive?"
Weigh your options. Try to mathematically figure out if your life more valuable than the animals that feed you. It might be more ethical to just die.
i think as humans we can pick and choose what we focus on and how we decide to deal with the problems that surround us. I was a vegan for a year and a half for the reasons of animal cruelty and health. I did feel angry when people in my family or friends would challenge my ideas and beliefs and so I would always do a lot of research and felt like I would have to back up each one of my claims. I would say things like, "humans don't need meat and it's not a necessity, we eat it out of pleasure and kill living things for pleasure" ext. Throughout time however veganism became a part of me and my ego and not so much a movement out of love. My blood results were decreasing even though i thought i was eating healthy and gradually moved back to eating meat and dairy again. What I have learned is this, as a person we can choose to be angry about all the different problems there are in the world or chose not to. When i focused on the problems of the meat industry all that brought me was stress and anxiety, and It made me question what cutting out meat was really doing for me? I still was very privileged and all my clothes are probably made from working children, my phone parts were mined in horrible conditions where people don't get payed, my makeup products are mined for basically free labor by children as well, and everywhere i look there is corruption and sadness. I decided that trying to educate people on things they don't care about is not what's important, what is important is being kind to everyone you can and trying your best at what you do because we can't solve every problem and we are not perfect. To be angry and upset at other people for their own choices they are unbothered with is pointless and only upsets ourselves. I am not justifying eating meat, but I am saying that for me to be able to live a healthy mental and physical life I have to chose not to focus on the corruption that surrounds me but the good that shows up in many ways.
 
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J

jeton nucleus

Member
Mar 28, 2023
11
If vegans don't want to eat meat, then they can choose not to eat meat. However, you don't have the right to tell the rest of us what we can and cannot eat. I eat meat because it is delicious. Eat what you want to eat and leave me alone.
 
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Coldpizza22

Coldpizza22

Crafter
Apr 2, 2023
70
Here is what i think as a meat eater. I think there is no universal answer here. Animals eat meat (even other primates to which humans share DNA with). Is it wrong? It's a normal part of nature. In the developed world we eat too much meat, but that's the same like with other stuff like tobacco, cannabis, sugar, alcohol...
We have the option to consume these things for our own pleasure, even if they're bad for our health.
You have to be careful here. The more that one side pushes back, the more the other side will. Vegans doing stuff that's disturbing people in public, will just make more moderate people dislike them and more extreme meat eaters will do the same provocative stuff back.
To end this with a final though, the best option is just to eat what you want regarding to your principals. With new technologies developing, maybe if lab grown meat gets cheap and good enough, people will start eating it.
 
H

Heavenbound

Specialist
Apr 11, 2023
304
I'm a vegetarian and almost vegan.
I feel like everyone has the right to choose what they want to eat. Do I WISH all people were vegetarian/vegan, yes. Is that likely to happen, no.
I don't talk about it, I don't protest or anything like that.
Oh, and yes, I'm angry, but it has nothing to do with my eating habits. Haha.
 
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Holu

Holu

Hypomania go brrr
Apr 5, 2023
556
Here is what i think as a meat eater. I think there is no universal answer here. Animals eat meat (even other primates to which humans share DNA with). Is it wrong? It's a normal part of nature. In the developed world we eat too much meat, but that's the same like with other stuff like tobacco, cannabis, sugar, alcohol...
We have the option to consume these things for our own pleasure, even if they're bad for our health.
You have to be careful here. The more that one side pushes back, the more the other side will. Vegans doing stuff that's disturbing people in public, will just make more moderate people dislike them and more extreme meat eaters will do the same provocative stuff back.
To end this with a final thought, the best option is just to eat what you want regarding to your principals. With new technologies developing, maybe if lab grown meat gets cheap and good enough, people will start eating it.
I eat meat, so anything I'll say is hypocritical but eating meat isn't the issue. The issue is the massive complexes used to house, raise, and execute livestock. It's heart wrenching to see how poorly treated these animals are. Furthermore, we have bread them to suffer due to how overweight they are. Hell some farm chickens can't even procreate without assistance cuz they so big. These animals live in constant enforced agony just so we can go to a grocery store and purchase their years of stuffing for under 50 bucks.
 
I wish I were a cat

I wish I were a cat

Sleep is good, death is better.
Apr 14, 2023
67
I'm very angry, humans pay for animals to be tortured for a meal, handbag, winter coat.. and go on forums to complain about their own problems. Looking at how ugly we are to others, we deserve to suffer.

IMO carnists should end up in carnist hell after death, where 'higher intelligence' beings treat them the same way. There they can scream all they want in their 'primitive' human language whilst being dismembered, no one will acknowledge they are in pain and obviously objecting to this treatment.
Woah I love this. This gave me some strange sense of empowerment.
 
Krystal

Krystal

Member
May 6, 2023
11
"Animals eat each other in the wild"
That's a bad thing. Getting eaten alive hurts. It doesn't matter whether it's natural or not.
Why does this matter? It is a simple fact of nature. The entire reason that pain exists is because the prey should try to not get hunted. And the entire reason that hunger exists is to continue the cycle. Do you think otherwise? If so, why? The pigs are meant to feel pain. We protect our young just because they're humans, because we want our society to thrive. We are greedy.


"Does that make lions evil"
No because they don't have the capacity for ethics. If they did then the best course of action (seeing as they're carnivores) would be to willingly die out so as not to hurt any other animals.
Think about why ethics exists for a moment. I am interested to see what answer you come up with. Maybe it differs from mine, and that is fine. I just want to see why you think human ethics should be applicable to animals. There are no wrong answers :)

"But if predators didn't exist, nature would fall apart"
Yes but they do exist and likely aren't going anywhere. It's not feasible to completely get rid of suffering but we can absolutely minimize it by not constantly making animals just to kill them later.
The same is true for non-vegetarian humans :) For the most part at least, in the foreseeable future.

"Vegan products too expensive and ostracizes poor people"
They're usually cheaper tbh but if you can't afford them, don't go vegan. As long as most people go vegan it'll be a net positive.
I actually agree with this. I often find vegan products to be cheaper. I don't specifically buy meat since it doesn't matter to me, I suppose it depends on how important meat is to the person.

"What if it's your religion/culture to eat meat?"
Your religion/culture is responsible for countless deaths and you should stop adhering to it.
To countless deaths of animals. We still haven't gotten to the explaining why killing animals is bad.

"What if someone is stranded in the jungle and has to in order to survive?"
Weigh your options. Try to mathematically figure out if your life more valuable than the animals that feed you. It might be more ethical to just die.
Can you really mathematically compare your life to an animal? Is there really such an objective metric? I love math, and I'd love to see the math you come up with. Please show me why you think that mathematically my life may be worth less than the ones of countless animals, or of countless humans.

I think that the most important factor is how important is your life to you? Are you selfish enough to kill animals for your own gratification to satisfy your tastebuds? Are you selfish enough to kill them whenv forced to for survival? Or are you selfless enough to sacrifice yourself instead? Can these really be weighed, and one be determined as objectively better? Maybe. Maybe if you have a goal in mind. Maybe, if that goal is that humans thrive in society, you make murder illegal, and the death of humans heavily frowned upon. Maybe if your goal is for animals to thrive, you will view ethics differently. I want to be wrong, because it is interesting to understand a more correct perspective, so if you think I am wrong, feel free to enlighten me with your correct perspective :)
 
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golgotha

golgotha

Member
May 11, 2023
9
I enjoy eating the flesh of animals because it's delicious, satiating and builds physical strength. So what if animals are in pain? So what if they're slaughtered? I want to eat their flesh. I want to devour and digest their organs. It makes me feel alive.
 
unnormal9

unnormal9

SOLDIER T.
Apr 12, 2023
1,140
Animals eat each other too. Animals would eat you too.
 
Message In A Bottle

Message In A Bottle

📜 Just me, myself, and I
Apr 1, 2022
348
Their not all angry…

 

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