Discussion Do minors have the same “right” to die?

[Deleted member 847]

This is simple. You either fit into category 1 or category 2.

1. If suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, then it's your choice as an individual.

2. If suicide is a permanent solution to a permanent problem, then it's your choice as an individual.

 

[Tiburcio]

Thanks to everybody who replied here.

I have 18 years and nobody seems to understand my life is in my hands. You made me feel supported, indirectly.

Thank you for being so kind guys.

 

[Comatose11]

I completely agree that teenagers cannot make a rational decision on the subject. Their problems are often solvable, inconsequential, or just trivial. My point is that it doesn't matter. Consider how many poor people think they could alleviate their problems with money. There's clearly an upper limit to that, since even the rich feel stress and unhappiness. Even though the woes of the rich can seem laughable to poor people, there's no denying that the rich feel them as very real. The same goes for teenagers.

I'm old enough to drink in the US and still want to die for the same reasons as I did when I was a teenager. The main reason is I have mental disorders that are hard to treat. I have to work my butt of to treat it and the level it improves it isn't worth it IMO. Especially in relationship to how much effort I have to put in. Everyday, I wish I killed myself as a teenager. I would have saved myself and others from a lot of suffering.

 

[creatureoflight]

I don't think it's an age question however you are still really young and a lot of stuff can change for you. So I would wait with any suicide decision until you are a bit older and have more perspective on life. I am 27 and a lot of stuff changed for me between 16 and now, a lot of it in a good way so I wouldn't recommend killing yourself at such a young age.

 

[Laggy]

In some ways I think teenagers have more of a right, because they probably have less responsibilities (a significant other, kids, etc). But I'm not sure any of us have a "right." I'm probably in the minority with that opinion. One thing I'd keep in mind is that a lot of happy adults were once suicidal teenagers. Obviously you're not going to find them on this website, but some people actually do recover.

 

[Ssname]

Personally I agree with lots of what people have said. Ultimately it is your life and I am pro individuals being able to choose.

That being said teenage years the brain is still developing and the more "emotional" part of the brain (I forget the name) takes over while the "reasoning" part (frontal cortex maybe?) is developing. I also agree with the post above about there being suicidal teens who are no longer suicidal. This site isn't exactly a fair sample of the population.

 

[Deleted member 847]

At 16 you were married in ancient Rome if you were a woman. This adult nonsense it's a social construct. If you can hunt and/or have sex daily then you're an adult. If you're an idiot that can't reason at 16 and reacts emotionally, you'll probably be just as much of an idiot at 30. Or maybe I'm saying this because my brain has not developed yet hehe.

 

[6477244ts5]

I understand and appreciate your well measured reply. I do think there are some ethical implication in letting teens talk with adults (sometimes much older adults) about methods and practical matters in planning this. But really, it is irrelevant because we are all subjected to secrecy in our thoughts and plans. Should teens be denied the right to get support around their suicidal thoughts? I don't think so. They deserve a space too.

This is the main problem...not whether they have the right as they clearly do...but rather that they don't have the same experience, perspective, and cognitive development and mixing them with adults for whom all those things are different is really not fair to either side. Younger people simply aren't equipped to make those kind of decisions and understand the consequences as well as an adult. We all think we know everything when young and are "just as smart, wise, whatever" as adults...and in general that is not at all true. Hormones, physical growth, life experience all change us. So while I believe it's anyone's right to do with their life whatever they choose...I don't think kids have the proper perspective to make that choice rationally in 95% of cases AND that they can be unduly and negatively influenced by adults who have reasoned out their situation for a long time. For them the chances of things getting better are far higher and more realistic since life can change so much in the early years.

 

[Morning Angel]

This is the main problem...not whether they have the right as they clearly do...but rather that they don't have the same experience, perspective, and cognitive development and mixing them with adults for whom all those things are different is really not fair to either side. Younger people simply aren't equipped to make those kind of decisions and understand the consequences as well as an adult. We all think we know everything when young and are "just as smart, wise, whatever" as adults...and in general that is not at all true. Hormones, physical growth, life experience all change us. So while I believe it's anyone's right to do with their life whatever they choose...I don't think kids have the proper perspective to make that choice rationally in 95% of cases AND that they can be unduly and negatively influenced by adults who have reasoned out their situation for a long time. For them the chances of things getting better are far higher and more realistic since life can change so much in the early years.

I have to agree, honestly. I think it's a bit of a problem that we're all mixed up in the same space.

 

[MrPromethium]

I'm sixteen, suicidal, and have been that way for over a year.

Do you believe I have the right to die?

Do you approve of myself and fellow teens gathering information and methods through this website?

Is teen suicide any different than that of other age groups?

I'd like your thoughts.

Legally no, but won't stop me

 

[WanderingEremite]

Unfortunately, none of the interesting philosophical problems can be shown to have a likely answer. Disagreement, even among those who are closest to qualifying as "experts" on these issues, is sufficiently strong and general that no major view has been ruled out in moral philosophy: consequentialism, deontology, moral nihilism, moral realism, whatever. So no one can convincingly demonstrate that you or anyone else has or lacks a moral right to anything. Chances are the whole topic is best ignored. As far as legal rights go, I think everyone here is familiar with the status suicide typically has around the world.

The better question is probably whether suicide is a reasonable choice given your ultimate interests, your suicide's probable effects on others, your likelihood of eventually having a life that is satisfactory to you, and so on. Since you're very young, it won't be easy to arrive at a confident answer to this question, because further biological and psychological development into adulthood could significantly change your situation. By the time one hits their mid-20s, one's prospects in life will generally be fairly clear, however.

 

[MAIO]

I'm sixteen, suicidal, and have been that way for over a year.

Do you believe I have the right to die?

Do you approve of myself and fellow teens gathering information and methods through this website?

Is teen suicide any different than that of other age groups?

I'd like your thoughts.

How could you have a right to live and not to die? Ofcourse. People live and die for stupid reasons all the time. It's no one place to say yes or no your life is or is not worth it.

 

[LaughingandSmiling]

Good to hear from you all. I'm still unsure of whether or not I'm going to take the jump (literally) and CTB but I appreciate your responses either way <3

 

[NoPillPhilosophy]

You have the right to do anything.

 

[typx]

I'm sixteen, suicidal, and have been that way for over a year.

Do you believe I have the right to die?

Do you approve of myself and fellow teens gathering information and methods through this website?

Is teen suicide any different than that of other age groups?

I'd like your thoughts.

I think that teenage suicide is a tragic thing. It's a really precarious age and a lot of things are going on inside and around you that will mellow out as you age. So I do think teen suicide is different than other age groups.

I don't know much about the science behind it. But it seems like the crazy peer pressure and chemical changes in a persons body would be huge contributing factors. That stuff won't last forever.

So do you have a right to die? Well, everyone has the power of their own life in their hands. Do I approve of you gathering information? Not really. But at the same time you are free to do as you will.

At that age you're just so unaware of your own capabilities and potential. I'd say give it a while. Wait a few years. Now, you may find that you have no potential and nothing to offer. Then, by all means, exit.

 

[typx]

At 16 you were married in ancient Rome if you were a woman. This adult nonsense it's a social construct. If you can hunt and/or have sex daily then you're an adult. If you're an idiot that can't reason at 16 and reacts emotionally, you'll probably be just as much of an idiot at 30. Or maybe I'm saying this because my brain has not developed yet hehe.

You know.. social constructs do count. They may be created by subjective human societies.. but they still have an incredible impact on people and how they function. Just because a society had people at 16 being adults doesn't mean one where people are adults at 25 is any less valid. You can't just cherry pick the example that fits your viewpoint. Plus.. even if you are considered an adult at 16, that doesn't mean you are actually fully developed. Only that your society says it's time for you to be responsible.

 

[NoPillPhilosophy]

I think that teenage suicide is a tragic thing. It's a really precarious age and a lot of things are going on inside and around you that will mellow out as you age. So I do think teen suicide is different than other age groups.

I don't know much about the science behind it. But it seems like the crazy peer pressure and chemical changes in a persons body would be huge contributing factors. That stuff won't last forever.

So do you have a right to die? Well, everyone has the power of their own life in their hands. Do I approve of you gathering information? Not really. But at the same time you are free to do as you will.

At that age you're just so unaware of your own capabilities and potential. I'd say give it a while. Wait a few years. Now, you may find that you have no potential and nothing to offer. Then, by all means, exit.

Not everyone kills themselves because they are fat and can't get a job.

 

[typx]

Not everyone kills themselves because they are fat and can't get a job.

Correct.

 

[NoPillPhilosophy]

At that age you're just so unaware of your own capabilities and potential. I'd say give it a while. Wait a few years. Now, you may find that you have no potential and nothing to offer. Then, by all means, exit.

You could be the smartest person alive with the most potential and still want to kill yourself because of philosphical reasons.

What if an 8 year old says they want to die because they hate how to live they have to hurt others. Buying food water kills and hurts humans, animals...etc

Then what will you say to that kid? "Get used to it?"

What if they don't want to sacrifice their morals to live. If they wouldn't take from the mouth of another to feed themselves.

There's nothing you can say to that without going into a rabbit hole of bullshit.

Sure a child/teen like that might be 1 in who knows how many but still.

Age shouldn't be the absolute thing defining a rule.

 

[typx]

You could be the smartest person alive with the most potential and still want to kill yourself because of philosphical reasons.

What if an 8 year old says they want to die because they hate how to live they have to hurt others. Buying food water kills and hurts humans, animals...etc

Then what will you say to that kid? "Get used to it?"

What if they don't want to sacrifice their morals to live. If they wouldn't take from the mouth of another to feed themselves.

There's nothing you can say to that without going into a rabbit hole of bullshit.

Sure a child/teen like that might be 1 in who knows how many but still.

Age shouldn't be the absolute thing defining a rule.

It's just my opinion. It isn't a rule. But that 8 year old is too young to have a fully developed mind/body/opinions/moral principles. He/she doesn't really know what they want.. they are 8. An 8 year old is an emotion machine. As are teenagers. A suicide at that age seems more likely linked to emotion than a philosophical stance.

 

[typx]

Plus.. you just made a random and far fetched situation up and then called it fact.

 

[Tiburcio]

You could be the smartest person alive with the most potential and still want to kill yourself because of philosphical reasons.

What if an 8 year old says they want to die because they hate how to live they have to hurt others. Buying food water kills and hurts humans, animals...etc

Then what will you say to that kid? "Get used to it?"

What if they don't want to sacrifice their morals to live. If they wouldn't take from the mouth of another to feed themselves.

There's nothing you can say to that without going into a rabbit hole of bullshit.

Sure a child/teen like that might be 1 in who knows how many but still.

Age shouldn't be the absolute thing defining a rule.

I agree a lot with you, I like how you think.

 

[WanderingEremite]

I think that teenage suicide is a tragic thing. It's a really precarious age and a lot of things are going on inside and around you that will mellow out as you age. So I do think teen suicide is different than other age groups.

I don't know much about the science behind it. But it seems like the crazy peer pressure and chemical changes in a persons body would be huge contributing factors. That stuff won't last forever.

So do you have a right to die? Well, everyone has the power of their own life in their hands. Do I approve of you gathering information? Not really. But at the same time you are free to do as you will.

At that age you're just so unaware of your own capabilities and potential. I'd say give it a while. Wait a few years. Now, you may find that you have no potential and nothing to offer. Then, by all means, exit.

I forgot to mention this in my post, and it supports your point. It's well established that Neuroticism declines sharply with age. I think it tends to peak in the teenage years or young adulthood and falls off from then on. For those unaware, Neuroticism is a dimension of personality that essentially captures one's tendency to experience negative emotions. Declining Neuroticism may explain the often noted tendency people have to "mellow out" with age.

 

[NoPillPhilosophy]

Plus.. you just made a random and far fetched situation up and then called it fact.

No I said it defintelely is possible.

And further I won't talk to you anymore because your whole "we all are just a bundle of cells and you are wrong because cells in your brain...etc"

Nice argument.

Same argument used by the government to make you suck their dick and work a 9-5 for the rest of your life taking drugs because you have a "chemical imbalance" and need them.

No different than a christian saying.
"SUCK MY DICK BECAUSE GOD SAID SO"
and you saying
"YOU HAVE TO SUCK MY DICK BECAUSE YOUR CELLS ARE NOT MATURE ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT DEICISION"

 

[typx]

No I said it defintelely is possible.

And further I won't talk to you anymore because your whole "we all are just a bundle of cells and you are wrong because cells in your brain...etc"

Nice argument.

Same argument used by the government to make you suck their dick and work a 9-5 for the rest of your life taking drugs because you have a "chemical imbalance" and need them.

No different than a christian saying.
"SUCK MY DICK BECAUSE GOD SAID SO"
and you saying
"YOU HAVE TO SUCK MY DICK BECAUSE YOUR CELLS ARE NOT MATURE ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT DEICISION"

I don't think I was saying any of that. I do not want you to suck my dick lol

 

[NoPillPhilosophy]

I don't think I was saying any of that. I do not want you to suck my dick lol

Won't waste my time answering this. It is a long serious discussion and I'd say it isn't worth it spending an hour to prove that some Joe on the internet is logcially wrong about a thing.

My bad for even arguing with you. I should quit this site.

Also learn what metaphors are, if you want

 

[typx]

Won't waste my time answering this. It is a long serious discussion and I'd say it isn't worth it spending an hour to prove that some Joe on the internet is logcially wrong about a thing.

My bad for even arguing with you. I should quit this site.

Also learn what metaphors are, if you want

Nah, I'd stick around. Not everyone is going to get on your nerves like me.

 

[NoPillPhilosophy]

Nah, I'd stick around. Not everyone is going to get on your nerves like me.

I do this with people too. Always arguing but it never bring me anything but sadness, hopelessness, anger.

Because I care too much to be happy.
I need to learn to let go of everything and give up. Stop caring about everything.


It is a very very seriously bad habit.

 

[typx]

I do this with people too. Always arguing but it never bring me anything but sadness, hopelessness, anger.

Because I care too much to be happy.
I need to learn to let go of everything and give up. Stop caring about everything.


It is a very very seriously bad habit.

Yeah being highly sensitive gets you nowhere. I used to think it made me special, like I could understand things others couldn't. Truth is they just ignore it or don't pay attention and focus on things that actually matter. Letting everything get around you affect you does you absolutely no favours. And the anger under it..

 

[WanderingEremite]

In the interest of a peaceable resolution here, it's worth pointing out that the thrust of typx's point is simply that psychological development is not finished in the teenage years and that further psychological changes are sufficiently great that a suicidal teen may no longer be suicidal as an adult. Philosophical convictions aren't isolated from psychology and so may also change.

Now, whether these facts should bear on one's decision to suicide or not is a philosophical problem, and is therefore intractably controversial (look at the status of any other interesting philosophical question -- they're all like this). But it's at least clear that some think these facts are relevant to the decision of whether to suicide, and thus it's reasonable to enter them into the discussion.