Discussion do hotlines actually help anyone?

[zeroshark]

ok. im inclined to believe just about anyone on here would agree suicide hotlines are a pile of hot garbage. the last thing i want when im at the end of my rope is to pour out my heart and trauma history to some stranger who responds with "it sounds like youre sad right now. have you tried breathing?" no fucking shit im sad, maria! they pay you for this???

i dont see how these are helpful to anyone; those of us who genuinely want to end our lives and are most at risk have already wised up that it doesnt help and might get the authorities called on us, and i have a hard time believing anyone who would get anything from it is genuinely planning to kill themselves or has done enough research to do that effectively. maybe im wrong, thats why im asking. do these serve any meaningful purpose at all, other than a bandaid so we can act like something is being done without addressing the reasons people reach that point to begin with?

 

[sagajin]

It feels like they serve a meaningfull purpose for people who arent actually going to do it. But if they dont have a person that lissens to them for a cry of help. Would/Could evolve into some one who actually would CTB.

 

[ceelo]

I'd never phone one because im not suicidal imo, i dont have trauma etc im just in tons of discomfort from a retard condition so i consider mine rational euthanasia, would probs be a funny phonecall tbh.

 

[zeroshark]

It feels like they serve a meaningfull purpose for people who arent actually going to do it. But if they dont have a person that lissens to them for a cry of help. Would/Could evolve into some one who actually would CTB.

thats a good point, thank you. my recollection of calling them when i was at that phase was feeling condescended to and frustrated that they couldnt really offer anything outside repeating back what i said or threatening to call the cops, but my experience isnt the only one and that might in fact be exactly what some people need.

I'd never phone one because im not suicidal imo, i dont have trauma etc im just in tons of discomfort from a retard condition so i consider mine rational euthanasia, would probs be a funny phonecall tbh.

im sorry you find yourself in so much discomfort; people are very reluctant to accept that "a permanent solution to a temporary problemx doesnt hold true for many of us. fwiw, i did actually calmly lay out the rationale for my CTB to the hotline operator once and stumped her into silence for a good 15 seconds before she offered/threatened to call the cops. it was definitely funny, in a grim way. prolifers are really attached to the idea that all problems have solutions and when confronted with the reality that they dont, they default back to "well, you have to keep suffering anyways because reasons."

 

[schopenh]

To answer the question... yea, they do help some people; people who aren't really suicidal but crave a comforting voice. And they also help people who are experiencing a very acute, sometimes spontaneous and intense desire to commit suicide, who will benefit from being talked out of it and will probably not be suicidal ever again or for a long time.

Anyone actually methodically planning their end due to an extended period of time of suffering more than likely won't benefit from them. I've had no good experience with them personally. They literally pause and say "uh..." when I tell them I've had chronic neuropathic pain with no relief for three years. Occasionally you get a nurse or something who asks have you tried X or Y therapy and when you go tediously through the list of their suggestions and they realise you've tried it all (even the absolute BS due to desperation) they give you some empty platitudes.

These hotlines are treated like they're very important and meaningful but that's just due to the absence of anything else to tell suicidal people to do. The state of the art care for suicidal people is talking, being a guinea pig for pharmacological agents and incarceration. Truly wonderful.

 

[thx1138]

I called one time and had a bad experience so I'd never repeat... The survey also shows that positive experience with hotlines is very rare. (Yet still they exist, so I guess hotlines help some people.)

a bandaid so we can act like something is being done without addressing the reasons people reach that point to begin with?

That nails it. It's easier to have a hotline (afaik they don't always pay the workers, some are volunteers?) than to provide comprehensive mental health care and social support on a long-term basis. It's also easier to call the cops who will make sure you don't die, than to treat you like a human being and give you time-consuming personal care and attention. It's not cost effective to treat the causes of suicidality. The end goal is to keep you from dying, not to make you feel better. If people die early, the economy suffers, and it disturbs the peace. It doesn't matter how sad you are, as long as you keep living and producing profit.

With that in mind - do hotlines help suicidal people feel less depressed, more happy, loved, cared for in the long (or even short) term? No. Do they help prevent death in that moment? Yes. Hotline workers may try to call the cops or get you to go to a public place or with friends/family where you can be observed, and just by having someone on the phone you are less likely to kill yourself because you don't want to disappoint the person on the other end of the line. So they do help society overall, otherwise they probably wouldn't exist.

 

[schopenh]

The survey also shows that positive experience with hotlines is very rare. (Yet still they exist, so I guess hotlines help some people.)

The survey only represents 1. active members of the sanctioned suicide website who 2. bothered to fill out the survey. It's nowhere near an accurate representation of all the callers of all the hotlines the world over. Given that this forum is literally the place where those who are doing the absolute worst show up, the high percentage of people failed by hotlines is almost assured. It's presumably safer to assume that the percentage of people who benefit from the hotlines is actually higher when you include the group of people who aren't methodically planning their end on an internet forum.
Basically, you can't extrapolate much from this data set.

 

[thx1138]

The survey only represents 1. active members of the sanctioned suicide website who 2. bothered to fill out the survey. It's nowhere near an accurate representation of all the callers of all the hotlines the world over. Given that this forum is literally the place where those who are doing the absolute worst show up, the high percentage of people failed by hotlines is almost assured. It's presumably safer to assume that the percentage of people who benefit from the hotlines is actually higher when you include the group of people who aren't methodically planning their end on an internet forum.
Basically, you can't extrapolate much from this data set.

Yes, you're totally right Good point. Sorry for forgetting this. I don't know if there are some bigger surverys regarding hotlines, but clearly they are helpful in some way, otherwise they wouldn't exist in pretty much every country around the world.

 

[NationalistKorean]

The hotlines are like putting a bandaid on a gunshot. It doesn't for those who for too hurt but for those that aren't as hurt it works like a bandaid on a cut.

 

[woxihuanni]

I haven't trief and would never try a hotline, but from conversations I had with 'friends' who gave me patronising stuff, I am pretty sure they accelareted some callers' suicides. Because if I ever get that shit, I feel I shouldn't wait to finish the business.

 

[inactive]

They can be highly valuable to impulsive normies and I think that's it.

 

[BehindTheWall]

I never called a hotline and will never do. I think it's pretty impersonal, they just repeat the same speach to what, ten people? twenty? hundred? per day. In my opinion, they help no one.

 

[nerve]

Yes, I get benefit out of using hotlines.

Maybe I'm a lot worse off than most people here, but even having someone just listen to me describe my issues and then say something like, "I'm sorry this is happening to you and that sucks," makes a big difference for me when I'm struggling to endure something without doing anything stupid or reckless. They're not there to solve my problems or take any of the pain away or even necessarily help, just acknowledge my existence and whatever I'm going through at that moment. Sometimes these are only conversations I'll have with somebody outside of the house for weeks or months.

That said, after years of the "just call this number and they can help :3" rhetoric, I can't fault anyone for being disappointed in what a hotline had to offer them. They're unpaid volunteers being hoisted on this weird pedestal and I feel like at least half the people who urge others to "Just Reach Out" and "Make The Call" have no idea what hotlines are actually capable of doing for someone.

 

[TAW122]

I agree with people who claim that hotlines are good for people who aren't 100% certain that they want to die and just want someone to lend an ear or talk them down. However, most of us who are determined to die and have rationalized, deliberated, and made the decision to die, it's an hindrance and antithetical to our goal and intentions (to CTB and forever be at peace).

Society and the masses as a whole, yes you are on point that it is just like "a bandaid so we can act like something is being done without addressing the reasons people reach that point to begin with." This is akin to virtue signaling, things that serve no purpose nor help the situation and only serves to boost the egos of the masses.

 

[muffin222]

I think hotlines serve a very specific purpose to help a very specific group of people who are in acute crisis situations and are suicidal due to transient life circumstances. These people don't actually want to die- they just want the immediate pain to stop and they want someone to listen to them. After that, these people likely feel better and don't end up carrying out any plans to ctb. In fact, they probably didn't have any plan to begin with- they're just in a crisis situation and needed someone to talk them down from doing anything drastic or impulsive.

I personally have never called a hotline because there's really nothing they can say to help me with my problems because what I'm dealing with is complex and long-lasting. It can't be solved just from someone listening to me and reassuring me that everything will be okay.

So yes, hotlines do help people and they do serve a purpose. But, they're not a long term solution and they won't help everyone who's suicidal, nor are they really meant to

 

[zeroshark]

theres a lot more diversity of opinion here re: hotlines than i expected, thank you everyone! im pleasantly surprised to hear some people do find them genuinely helpful, especially for pointing out:

To answer the question... yea, they do help some people; people who aren't really suicidal but crave a comforting voice. And they also help people who are experiencing a very acute, sometimes spontaneous and intense desire to commit suicide, who will benefit from being talked out of it and will probably not be suicidal ever again or for a long time.

I think hotlines serve a very specific purpose to help a very specific group of people who are in acute crisis situations and are suicidal due to transient life circumstances. These people don't actually want to die- they just want the immediate pain to stop and they want someone to listen to them. After that, these people likely feel better and don't end up carrying out any plans to ctb. In fact, they probably didn't have any plan to begin with- they're just in a crisis situation and needed someone to talk them down from doing anything drastic or impulsive....So yes, hotlines do help people and they do serve a purpose. But, they're not a long term solution and they won't help everyone who's suicidal, nor are they really meant to

this is absolutely something i can envision and need to be reminded of; there are situations where people act impulsively that result in fatality (ie if they have access to a firearm) or some other serious harm.

i think this thread also serves to remind me, as Idlzrs pointed out that the function of hotlines is NOT to help people, it is exclusively to prevent death in that moment. with that in mind, it makes sense that this is more helpful to some people than others; intervening to prevent death in the moment isnt helpful for those of us who are longterm seriously suicidal, but it is helpful for the category of people discussed above who might otherwise hurt themselves on impulse.

Yes, I get benefit out of using hotlines.

Maybe I'm a lot worse off than most people here, but even having someone just listen to me describe my issues and then say something like, "I'm sorry this is happening to you and that sucks," makes a big difference for me when I'm struggling to endure something without doing anything stupid or reckless. They're not there to solve my problems or take any of the pain away or even necessarily help, just acknowledge my existence and whatever I'm going through at that moment. Sometimes these are only conversations I'll have with somebody outside of the house for weeks or months.

i have a difficult time believing this is a matter of being worse off than anyone else; it strikes me more to do with what kind of help people need, which hotlines arent really equipped to deal with on a case by case basis. talking to the hotline operators is evidently genuinely helpful to some people; on the flipside, its been a disappointing or actively harmful experience for me/others in thread to reach out and find that the help offered isnt helpful for them. but again, the point isnt really to help, just to prevent death in the moment.

That said, after years of the "just call this number and they can help :3" rhetoric, I can't fault anyone for being disappointed in what a hotline had to offer them. They're unpaid volunteers being hoisted on this weird pedestal and I feel like at least half the people who urge others to "Just Reach Out" and "Make The Call" have no idea what hotlines are actually capable of doing for someone.

Society and the masses as a whole, yes you are on point that it is just like "a bandaid so we can act like something is being done without addressing the reasons people reach that point to begin with." This is akin to virtue signaling, things that serve no purpose nor help the situation and only serves to boost the egos of the masses.

i see more value in hotlines than i did prior to making this thread, but im simultaneously more convinced they do indeed function as a bandaid. sure, we want to help people--but only the narrow range of people for whom this structure is helpful. sure, we want to help people--but not enough to pay qualified professionals to do it. is it better than nothing? probably, but it seems odd that the societal consensus is that its the best we can do.

one thing i am 100% in favor of: doing away with nonconsensual intervention. after reading responses here i believe there might be plenty of people (more than i had imagined) who are longterm/chronically/passively suicidal and would benefit from just talking to someone, but either dont call or can't talk openly for fear of having authorities called because they have a method in mind, etc. cops are not equipped to respond appropriately to someone in crisis anyways and can actively make things worse.

 

[BPD Barbie]

I have used them but only at times when I just needed to vent and had nowhere else to turn. They didn't really give me any solid advice, just listened and let me rant away. I did feel better afterwards but I'm at the point now where they'd be no use to me. As others have said, they are great to vent to, for people who need a chat or are feeling a bit down, but for those deeply suicidal I don't think they do much. It's just someone to listen.

 

[alexit]

ok. im inclined to believe just about anyone on here would agree suicide hotlines are a pile of hot garbage. the last thing i want when im at the end of my rope is to pour out my heart and trauma history to some stranger who responds with "it sounds like youre sad right now. have you tried breathing?" no fucking shit im sad, maria! they pay you for this???

i dont see how these are helpful to anyone; those of us who genuinely want to end our lives and are most at risk have already wised up that it doesnt help and might get the authorities called on us, and i have a hard time believing anyone who would get anything from it is genuinely planning to kill themselves or has done enough research to do that effectively. maybe im wrong, thats why im asking. do these serve any meaningful purpose at all, other than a bandaid so we can act like something is being done without addressing the reasons people reach that point to begin with?

Suicide hotlines have never helped. Hotlines to connect you with resources (medical, legal, not on the spot advice) have been amazing.

 

[Brick In The Wall]

I have used them but only at times when I just needed to vent and had nowhere else to turn. They didn't really give me any solid advice, just listened and let me rant away. I did feel better afterwards but I'm at the point now where they'd be no use to me. As others have said, they are great to vent to, for people who need a chat or are feeling a bit down, but for those deeply suicidal I don't think they do much. It's just someone to listen.

Wait... so I can call them and just "vent?" I know what I'm doing next time I get drunk!

 

[Nymph]

Never called a hotline only tried the chat function where I waited for multiple hours and no one got to me. I have anxiety and can't make calls. The reason why I was looking to chat was because I just had a panic attack and literally no one responded.great

 

[TheQ22]

The survey only represents 1. active members of the sanctioned suicide website who 2. bothered to fill out the survey. It's nowhere near an accurate representation of all the callers of all the hotlines the world over. Given that this forum is literally the place where those who are doing the absolute worst show up, the high percentage of people failed by hotlines is almost assured. It's presumably safer to assume that the percentage of people who benefit from the hotlines is actually higher when you include the group of people who aren't methodically planning their end on an internet forum.
Basically, you can't extrapolate much from this data set.

I think this is a really complicated issue and extracting meaning from the data is very difficult. I agree with the perspective you posted above, but you could also look at it other ways.

On the one hand people from here who have rung a suicide helpline might have found no value in it because they have been planning to ctb for a long time, but on the other hand if you're committed to ctbing why would you ring a suicide helpline in the first place? Maybe a lot of those those who rang weren't totally commited to ctb?

Either way if a suicide helpline provides not much value to those who are actually really suicidal, is it really effective? Those who call them who aren't really committed to it probably wouldn't have ctb anyway - there are plenty of people here who say they are 100% going to do it but back out / can't actually go through with it.

In the UK they are largely charities and they take a LOT of money in donations, the Samaritans in the Uk took £22.5 Million in 2017/18, costs were 16 million, they had a net income of £6 million.

They reckon they provide £74 million worth of services because 20,000 people are volunteers who "donate" 5.3 million hours of time for free.

So do they care how effective they are as long as there's plenty of (tax free) money in the pot for the big wigs?

 

[ladolcemorte]

I think hotlines are limited: they are typically run by volunteers of varying skill levels who might be reading off of scripts with stock questions and responses.

However, they do provide a space to talk things out with another human, which can temporarily bring down one's level of distress. Sometimes they can give referrals to community services, which can be helpful.

I have called hotlines quite a few times, with varying results. I have had conversations that were absolutely useless, conversations that provided some temporary relief, and conversations that gave me the space to avoid doing something stupid in a moment of impulsivity. Occasionally I have had exceptional conversations with very kind souls.

Having said that, none of those calls have convinced me, over the long term, that life is worth living. I think they quelled some impulsive urges in moments where I wasn't thinking clearly enough to execute a proper plan, and for that I am grateful.

 

[IrRegularjoe]

Odd fact- Ted Bundy worked at a suicide hotline.

 

[TAW122]

one thing i am 100% in favor of: doing away with nonconsensual intervention. after reading responses here i believe there might be plenty of people (more than i had imagined) who are longterm/chronically/passively suicidal and would benefit from just talking to someone, but either dont call or can't talk openly for fear of having authorities called because they have a method in mind, etc. cops are not equipped to respond appropriately to someone in crisis anyways and can actively make things worse.

This is very true and also, in the US, when the individual is in a psych hold, they are responsible for the bills that they incurred and not to mention the condescending and horrible treatment by medical professionals (treated like a child, patronized, and talked down to). Also, yes there is an example of a suicidal man who died when his girlfriend called the cops to intervene.

 

[TimeLawyer]

They might be helpful if the volunteers/people on the other end have lived experience. But they can't give people jobs or secure housing. They can't singlehandedly change oppressive political systems or fix things like racism. It might be helpful to have a listening ear if the person on the other end can listen and empathise rather than just telling people to toughen up. Life is hard, and a person could be suicidal due to many different factors or reasons. Talking about things can be helpful, but societal change saves lives too.

 

[Deleted member 14573]

I've called hotlines a few times, and they've usually been unhelpful.

However I called the hotline a few weeks ago and it was...surprisingly helpful. The guy on the other end took the time to hear what I had to say without rushing me.

My biggest criticism of hotlines is (in my experience) they kind of rush you off the call if you're not in immediate danger to yourself.

The last caller I spoke to was not like that, which was helpful for me in that moment.

 

[Smellanie]

The first time I ever tried cutting my boyfriend found out and called them for me. They basicly told me nobody cares about you relationship drama.

 

[Spitfire]

Yes, I get benefit out of using hotlines.

Maybe I'm a lot worse off than most people here, but even having someone just listen to me describe my issues and then say something like, "I'm sorry this is happening to you and that sucks," makes a big difference for me when I'm struggling to endure something without doing anything stupid or reckless. They're not there to solve my problems or take any of the pain away or even necessarily help, just acknowledge my existence and whatever I'm going through at that moment. Sometimes these are only conversations I'll have with somebody outside of the house for weeks or months.

That said, after years of the "just call this number and they can help :3" rhetoric, I can't fault anyone for being disappointed in what a hotline had to offer them. They're unpaid volunteers being hoisted on this weird pedestal and I feel like at least half the people who urge others to "Just Reach Out" and "Make The Call" have no idea what hotlines are actually capable of doing for someone.

This was good to hear. I can see how this could be helpful to somebody, to have someone listening to talk with them. I might even try it some day too?

I called a hotline. I did not tell them who I was or anything. They sent the police to an old residence of mine where my ex was still staying. She called to tell me the police were there at the front door asking for me, and the police were just wondering how I was doing... but, I no longer was living there at the time.

 

[Deleted member 17949]

They probably do help people that do want to live to some extent. The important thing with hotlines or therapy or anything is that they can help guide or bring out certain ideas but they can't put new feelings into you. Calling a hotline can't make you go from being committed to dying to wanting to live, but generally people call them when they are not fully committed to dying.

 

[ward0x]

ok. im inclined to believe just about anyone on here would agree suicide hotlines are a pile of hot garbage. the last thing i want when im at the end of my rope is to pour out my heart and trauma history to some stranger who responds with "it sounds like youre sad right now. have you tried breathing?" no fucking shit im sad, maria! they pay you for this???

i dont see how these are helpful to anyone; those of us who genuinely want to end our lives and are most at risk have already wised up that it doesnt help and might get the authorities called on us, and i have a hard time believing anyone who would get anything from it is genuinely planning to kill themselves or has done enough research to do that effectively. maybe im wrong, thats why im asking. do these serve any meaningful purpose at all, other than a bandaid so we can act like something is being done without addressing the reasons people reach that point to begin with?

I've never found them helpful.