Did you ever discussed with a pro-lifer about suicide?

[tramaj]

Today, i had an online discussion with a pro-lifer and i noticed that they all use the same points: suicidal people are impulsive, if you end it you have 0 chances to improve...
Therefore, as the title says, did you ever talked with a pro-lifer? What points did they make to defend their opinion?

 

[Amelie]

Today, i had an online discussion with a pro-lifer and i noticed that they all use the same points: suicidal people are impulsive, if you end it you have 0 chances to improve...
Therefore, as the title says, did you ever talked with a pro-lifer? What points did they make to defend their opinion?

Yes I've had many conversations with them. The main thing they say which really really pisses me off, is there is help out there, you just need to find it, blah blah blah.
This actually makes me FURIOUS. Because it's not true. It's also the sort of thing my mum says so it's extra triggering to me.
MH services in the UK just tick boxes so they can be seen to be trying to help you. They do not actually care and nothing they do really helps. That's my experience.

 

[Death is my goal]

it's pointless so no, also idgaf what pro lifers think.. just ignore them

 

[Seered Doom]

Had conversations with them and while the more willing to budge ones are easily able to see some of my stances, others don't seem to care or put up a barrier in communications. They think it's easy and that things will magically get better, but if you tell them it doesn't work like that, it doesn't matter if you make an academic paper on it, they just get whiny and shut down immediately.

 

[wait.what]

I've had conversations with disability rights advocates who are concerned that any form of voluntary assisted death will quickly turn involuntary once the legal shackles are struck off "caregivers" who are entrusted with the welfare of needy individuals who require complex, expensive ca

 

[TheRottingContinues]

They say that it's "help" when it's really not

 

[turntechGodhead]

yep but i wouldn't say it was the best conversation i hv ever had w some1 since they r not able to rlly understand or comprehend my reasoning or explanations

 

[アホペンギン]

I have spoken to a pro-lifer twice, the first time was to see how they actually think and the second time being just an argument with a pro-lifer on Twitter, or X as they call it now.

The first pro-lifer I have spoken to about suicide and allowing people to do so just told me that there is help out there and suicide is "a permanent solution to a temporary problem" that bullshit. They say the same things, it is essentially meaningless statements now because none of them actually influence me to "get better" because I hear them all the time if I talk about suicide. I don't think any pro-lifer actually formed the opinion themselves bit rather got brainwashed to think that suicide is a horrible thing and the worst thing someone can do.

The second time, on Twitter was me arguing with an activist advocating for the prohibition of suicide resources and forums like SS and they basically told me the same things as the previous person told me. I don't necessarily remember what I was told but near the end of the argument I got blocked, presumably because I won the argument. More proof that the only logical statements are made by us pro-choicers during arguments concerning the right to die.

 

[wait.what]

I've had conversations with disability rights advocates who are concerned that any form of voluntary assisted death will quickly turn involuntary once the legal shackles are struck off "caregivers" who are entrusted with the welfare of people who require complex, expensive care. There's certainly a precedent for that. However, there's also clearly a precedent for removing the agency of people with disabilities based on the assumption that they're all big infants who can't be trusted to make responsible life-and-death decisions for themselves.

That puts us in a position of being too expensive and troublesome to live, but too crazy and dim-witted to die. Or at least too crazy and dim for the kind of "soft" death we prefer for our pets. Violent, lonely, and needlessly early death is apparently okay for humans. (I.e., if you can no longer blow your own brains out, you've waited too long. So shoot yourself now, while you can still act unassisted!)

I've never met a VAD opponent who actually said, "You know, I'm too much of a loony and an idiot to decide that I want to live." It's always someone else (me, specifically) who is too much of a loony and an idiot to decide they want to die. I don't think that presumed incompetence helps safeguard anyone's rights, though.

As dangerous as it is to grant J. Random Disabled Person the power of life and death over his/her own body, it's more dangerous not to. That's when you stumble into the arena of protecting the poor little cripples from themselves, and no good comes from that.

 

[snowlance]

No, most shut me down before I get halfway into talking about it. You can't have a conversation with them.

I have spoken to a pro-lifer twice, the first time was to see how they actually think and the second time being just an argument with a pro-lifer on Twitter, or X as they call it now.

The first pro-lifer I have spoken to about suicide and allowing people to do so just told me that there is help out there and suicide is "a permanent solution to a temporary problem" that bullshit. They say the same things, it is essentially meaningless statements now because none of them actually influence me to "get better" because I hear them all the time if I talk about suicide. I don't think any pro-lifer actually formed the opinion themselves bit rather got brainwashed to think that suicide is a horrible thing and the worst thing someone can do.

The second time, on Twitter was me arguing with an activist advocating for the prohibition of suicide resources and forums like SS and they basically told me the same things as the previous person told me. I don't necessarily remember what I was told but near the end of the argument I got blocked, presumably because I won the argument. More proof that the only logical statements are made by us pro-choicers during arguments concerning the right to die.

It really feels like a broken record sometimes when they say the same things.

 

[lachrymost]

I've had conversations with disability rights advocates [...]

Stellar post!

Here's one interaction: I have asked a pro-lifer why they used "it gets better" as a justification for state violence (involuntary commitment) when it obviously isn't necessarily true. They admitted it wasn't true, so I asked again why they were lying to people. They evaded. I asked them if humans lived for thousands of years, would they still oppose the right to say when enough is enough? They refused to answer that as well and said they weren't interested in a philosophical discussion, so that was that.

I really like the question about extended lifespan, because it helps reveal whether there is any common ground between us. I would have loved to see them honestly engage with that, so I could see where their head was at. For example, if they ask questions about the quality of life of one such hypothetical thousand-year-old human, it shows they care about quality of life to some extent.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Mainy the ones who have presumably lied to sneak on here. It starts out respectful but generally becomes unpleasant when they realise their saviour complex isn't working. Then they start resorting to guilt trips.

I chatted with a very intelligent and open minded lady who had interesting mixed feelings. She believed that people should have the right to choose. However- a relative of hers had CTB- so- obviously it made it a difficult subject. She also had experienced the grief it leaves behind. She was worried about assisted suicide becoming legalised because she felt it would put pressure on our elderly relatives to go. Not necessarily coercion. More a feeling from them that they didn't want to become a burden. I think she did have a point. I wish more people were like her though. She was a very liberal thinker.

 

[BlazingBob]

It's impossible to have a rational conversation with most people about ctb. People always flip out and start vomiting cliches like permanent solution, there's help available, call 800 273 TALK, you'll go to hell, it's selfish, think about your loved ones, etc. Most people are brainwashed sheep and just regurgitate their programming. Our owners hate suicide because it's the one freedom they can't take away.

 

[Duality]

I have had a discussion with a few. It's purely anecdotal but it was very disappointing. You'd think they'd be sympathetic and give the suicidal person the whole spiel about how it'll get better, suicide isn't the answer, etc. But these particular guys were so quick to judge and outright say the suicidal person doesn't deserve to live. "God gave us life and these people want to waste it, how disgusting that they are wasting this gift" is what they said.

Very odd that they'd say something like that, seeing as how they apparently value life. Maybe it's because they were religious nut jobs but either way, very strange.