Discussion Coronavirus (Covid-19) Megathread

[faust]

It's all fun and games until the real problem starts. This covid is just an escalation.

A good example (2014):

 

[Jumper Geo]

Playboy model who committed suicide and others murdered, very sad story taking your 5 year old son with you.

It's such a shame people feel there children will be better of dead.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11444117/playboy-tragedies-shootings-mutilations-murder-suicide/

Cheers Geo

 

[Brick In The Wall]

Covid has wrecked me financially and destroyed much of my progress towards recovery. I hope this shit ends soon.

 

[Carina]

Sadly things could've ended sooner if things were just done right first, and humans weren't humans.

Seriously Humans were like "omg I have it!" and then started driving cross states. Even today my company has some drivers going from Chicago to apparently New York (the state at least) and others to surrounding states. because it's 'no big deal'

 

[Soulless_Angel]

Our local news has reported a women *fell* from a cliff, (They are not allowed to use the word jumped) she survived with multiple fratures, she had been reported as in a very distressed stated prior.
The article was limited but comments bar the nasty ones, are saying she wasnt coping with this covid-19

 

[Carina]

Our local news has reported a women *fell* from a cliff, (They are not allowed to use the word jumped) she survived with multiple fratures, she had been reported as in a very distressed stated prior.
The article was limited but comments bar the nasty ones, are saying she wasnt coping with this covid-19

It's honestly sad that people are driven to that because of a virus that causes restrictions.

 

[Brick In The Wall]

It's honestly sad that people are driven to that because of a virus that causes restrictions.

With the mortality rate as low as it is I don't understand why people are CTB'ing over this.

 

[Carina]

With the mortality rate as low as it is I don't understand why people are CTB'ing over this.

Certain mental disorders that we probably never realized because we always had physical social interaction.

Some probably HAVE to have it, most don't. I mean for me, I WISH I could be home now and not at work... seriously all my job can be remote practically. But still, at home I have my mom. Even after I do have people I can call.... but even I don't know what i'd do if my contact was limited so much that I had basically none.

huh.... maybe it's common in humans but we all just have outlets so aren't driven to it?

 

[Brick In The Wall]

Certain mental disorders that we probably never realized because we always had physical social interaction.

Some probably HAVE to have it, most don't. I mean for me, I WISH I could be home now and not at work... seriously all my job can be remote practically. But still, at home I have my mom. Even after I do have people I can call.... but even I don't know what i'd do if my contact was limited so much that I had basically none.

huh.... maybe it's common in humans but we all just have outlets so aren't driven to it?

You may be onto something. Elephants can literally die of loneliness. I think humans are subject to this same condition.

 

[Soulless_Angel]

Now some poor bastard decided to try with a train at the station by my town, No info released on their condition!

 

[Jumper Geo]

Now some poor bastard decided to try with a train at the station by my town, No info released on their condition!

I find it strange they say someone commits suicide every 90 minutes so there are 1000's of unreported cases like the couple of suicides you have reported as there is no record from the online media at present but it does that a few weeks to be reported in the newspapers, if it will make an interesting story, we only really get to hear if they are famous or if they are young and beautiful but with Covid-19 they seem to be reporting more, especially if they are linked to the medical professionals stating the stress and isolation but doctors, nurses and paramedics have always had a high suicide rate prior to the virus.

I wonder if there will actually be a spike in the annual suicide rates when they are released.

I found a website about 15 months ago it was about suicides and it had hundreds listed, it told you male or female and what method they used hanging, jumping and the actual name of the drug or chemicals they used to overdose on but I have searched for it but I can't find it.

I do think the media do under report suicides but if you check out YouTube you can see the different stories and some of the basic causes from around the World. It's quite obvious they need to prevent bullying online and in schools but they don't seem to address these problems and more children are ctb.

YouTube

Дивіться відео, слухайте улюблену музику, завантажуйте оригінальний вміст і діліться всім цим із друзями, рідними й цілим світом на YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Cheers

George

 

[Brick In The Wall]

 

[Deleted member 1465]

I find it strange they say someone commits suicide every 90 minutes so there are 1000's of unreported cases like the couple of suicides you have reported as there is no record from the online media at present but it does that a few weeks to be reported in the newspapers, if it will make an interesting story, we only really get to hear if they are famous or if they are young and beautiful but with Covid-19 they seem to be reporting more, especially if they are linked to the medical professionals stating the stress and isolation but doctors, nurses and paramedics have always had a high suicide rate prior to the virus.

I wonder if there will actually be a spike in the annual suicide rates when they are released.

I found a website about 15 months ago it was about suicides and it had hundreds listed, it told you male or female and what method they used hanging, jumping and the actual name of the drug or chemicals they used to overdose on but I have searched for it but I can't find it.

I do think the media do under report suicides but if you check out YouTube you can see the different stories and some of the basic causes from around the World. It's quite obvious they need to prevent bullying online and in schools but they don't seem to address these problems and more children are ctb.

YouTube

Дивіться відео, слухайте улюблену музику, завантажуйте оригінальний вміст і діліться всім цим із друзями, рідними й цілим світом на YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Cheers

George

Newspapers and media tend to report stories if those stories will sell papers or get viewers. There is a case of record but the overwhelming bias is towards sales. So yes, celebrities, people of note, cases where fingers can be pointed, dramatic cases etc. Some have particular guidelines on how and what can be reported depending on the individual morals of the editor.

 

[BlackPoppet]

Newspapers and media tend to report stories if those stories will sell papers or get viewers. There is a case of record but the overwhelming bias is towards sales. So yes, celebrities, people of note, cases where fingers can be pointed, dramatic cases etc. Some have particular guidelines on how and what can be reported depending on the individual morals of the editor.

Or Rupert Murdoch and news international.

 

[faust]

Not too good news about SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV vaccines

Antibody-dependent infection of human macrophages by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus - PubMed

These results demonstrate that human macrophages can be infected by SARS-CoV as a result of IgG-mediated ADE and indicate that this infection route requires signaling pathways activated downstream of binding to FcγRII receptors.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vaccine efficacy in senescent mice challenged with recombinant SARS-CoV bearing epidemic and zoonotic spike variants - PubMed

This study identifies gaps and challenges in vaccine design for controlling future SARS-CoV zoonosis, especially in vulnerable elderly populations. The availability of a SARS-CoV virus bearing heterologous S glycoproteins provides a robust challenge inoculum for evaluating vaccine efficacy...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A double-inactivated severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus vaccine provides incomplete protection in mice and induces increased eosinophilic proinflammatory pulmonary response upon challenge - PubMed

Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) is an important emerging virus that is highly pathogenic in aged populations and is maintained with great diversity in zoonotic reservoirs. While a variety of vaccine platforms have shown efficacy in young-animal models and against...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Immunization with SARS coronavirus vaccines leads to pulmonary immunopathology on challenge with the SARS virus - PubMed

These SARS-CoV vaccines all induced antibody and protection against infection with SARS-CoV. However, challenge of mice given any of the vaccines led to occurrence of Th2-type immunopathology suggesting hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV components was induced. Caution in proceeding to application of...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Prior immunization with severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)-associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV) nucleocapsid protein causes severe pneumonia in mice infected with SARS-CoV - PubMed

The details of the mechanism by which severe acute respiratory syndrome-associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV) causes severe pneumonia are unclear. We investigated the immune responses and pathologies of SARS-CoV-infected BALB/c mice that were immunized intradermally with recombinant vaccinia virus...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Immunization with modified vaccinia virus Ankara-based recombinant vaccine against severe acute respiratory syndrome is associated with enhanced hepatitis in ferrets - PubMed

Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) caused by a newly identified coronavirus (SARS-CoV) is a serious emerging human infectious disease. In this report, we immunized ferrets (Mustela putorius furo) with recombinant modified vaccinia virus Ankara (rMVA) expressing the SARS-CoV spike (S)...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Antibodies against trimeric S glycoprotein protect hamsters against SARS-CoV challenge despite their capacity to mediate FcgammaRII-dependent entry into B cells in vitro - PubMed

Vaccine-induced antibodies can prevent or, in the case of feline infectious peritonitis virus, aggravate infections by coronaviruses. We investigated whether a recombinant native full-length S-protein trimer (triSpike) of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) was able to...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Enhanced inflammation in New Zealand white rabbits when MERS-CoV reinfection occurs in the absence of neutralizing antibody - PubMed

The Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) is a zoonotic betacoronavirus that was first detected in humans in 2012 as a cause of severe acute respiratory disease. As of July 28, 2017, there have been 2,040 confirmed cases with 712 reported deaths. While many infections have been...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Early death after feline infectious peritonitis virus challenge due to recombinant vaccinia virus immunization.

The gene encoding the fusogenic spike protein of the coronavirus causing feline infectious peritonitis was recombined into the genome of vaccinia virus. The recombinant induced spike-protein-specific, in vitro neutralizing antibodies in mice. When kittens ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Lefty]

So I saw this article where the generation that grew up during the pandemic might be refered to as Generation-C.

 

[faust]

So I saw this article where the generation that grew up during the pandemic might be refered to as Generation-C.

We are sometimes called generation X with no past and no future. Those who were born in 90s.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

A benefit I've gotten from social distancing...

There's an evangelical church close to where I live, and they have the services with the doors open. Evening services several times a week in addition to Sunday mornings. There's one particular song they sing twice every service.

Weeks now with no crying and yelling sermons, no hymns, no tambourines, no really loud dude who always sings a little off key.

I have empathy for their loss, I know church may bring peace for them, but it's so peaceful for me that they don't have it for now.

 

[Quarky00]

We are sometimes called generation X with no past and no future. Those who were born in 90s.

You are not Generation X

• Millennials -- coming into age before the year 2000. They started adulthood as the new Millennium started hence their name. Mostly born between 1980 and 1995 but also up to 2000. So if you are between the ages of 25 and 40-- you are a Millennial.
  • Teenage (coming into age): 1990-2010
  • Adult work life: 2000-
• Babyboomers -- coming into age in the 60s. Mostly born around the 50s. If you are between the ages of 55 and 75-- you are a Boomer.
  • Teenage years: 1955-1975
  • Adult work life: 1965-2000
• Generation X -- Boomers children -- born during the 70s (between 1965 and 1980). If you are between the ages of 40 and 55-- you are Generation X.
  • Teenage years: 1975-1990
  • Adult work life: 1990-

The generational distinctions are quite unique and actually very important. It's not just a random period of 20 years. Sociologists also look at two periods in a person's life: "coming of age" (ages 10-24) and "working age" (25-55), and how society and individuals act and interact during these two distinct periods. So basically: how did you grow up and how did you work (career, family, house). As can be seen it is agreed that Millennials are born between at least between 1982-1995 (dark blue) but some researchers view this as 1980-2005 (light blue)



Generation X, as you mentioned, were indeed viewed as detached, aloof, or lost (not to their detriment). The first generation to experience women working full time (en masse) and high divorce rate. Previous generations returned home from school to mom, and a hot meal. The "latchkey kids" often returned on their own to an empty house and had to take care of themselves. They became young adults (25yo) in a period that was grim and gritty (80s): not much had changed in the world around them (stagnation); there wasn't a major technological or cultural revolution; it was a period of general economic hardships (70s stagflation lasting through 80s); and individualism was on the rise. Their parents experienced the 60s, their grandparents WW2, and their children the 90s -- but their "revolution" was pretty much being left alone and on their own without much change or direction. This all defined their life, mostly as .. undefined. Hence "X".

Boomers are the post World War 2 children, born after huge economic boom and massive babyboom -- and to radical new social welfare systems. And yeah they also had fun in the 60s ;) Much had been said about the Boomers. They pretty much had it all. Massive post-war rebuild, social housing, and the buds of consumerism (TVs & cars) guaranteed much safety for their parents. It mostly continued even during 70s stagflation and neglect: despite hardships you could find a house and make a living (no longer the case). Even if things were hard at a certain moment, and even without college degree, it was 20-year mortgage and you're fine. Despite times of severe insecurity, unemployment, high interest rates, and real fear -- people could see their prospects.

Millennials were heavily influenced, really grew up into Cable TV and Personal Computer , and experiencing 9/11 World Terror. These 3 things really shaped their minds and behaviours. They also grew up in the "Prosperous 90s" , with the economic boom , world democratization and rave culture. 1989 Second Summer of Love speaks to 1967 Summer of Love. Really the "60s comeback". They are also known as the Start-Up Kids. They're also the first generation to grow up or become young adults (25+) in a diverse society, experiencing Globalization and the first to really travel the world -- and Global Economy.

• Fun ended though with 2000 Dot Com Bubble and with 9/11 (and later on with 2008 Crash). Unlike previous generations many Millenials were just 25 around tha time and did not own property or funds during the 2007 CSD crash -- so most were left with pretty much nothing.

There is no Generation Y. It's a popular media invention. They are Millennials, not 'Generation Y'.

'Generation Z' (tentative) are those born after the year 2000, and their coming of age was roughly during 2005-2020 . So if you are between the ages of 0 and 25 you are .. yet to be officially named. Other suggestions include Tech/Internet/Net Generation. This is the first generation that was literally born into the Internet, and born into communicating with text. "Born to Text". They are also the Smartphone Kids.


Roughly speaking:

• Boomers = Love Revolution
• Millennials = Computer Revolution
• Gen Z = Smartphone Revolution
• X = Meh

Young people in general -- Millenials and 'Zenners' (ages 15-40) are scientifically the most stressed out generation(s) -- emotionally, culturally, and financially. They make less money and own less property than their parents made at that age and they have much more debt. Growing up in the age of Global Terror, 24/7 news, and constant instant messaging made them severely anxious. [1]

A serious socioeconomic change led to radical instability: you can no longer find a house and make a living. You may be okay now, but your prospects are dim.

• The economic-cultural aspects are bit more complex than the technological ones (internet & smartphone). The foundation for current angst was laid in the 80s with neoliberal policies -- at the time divorce rate skyrocketed and home ownership dropped. That's some "safety" gone. The big blows however came later -- Dot Com (2000), 9/11 (2001), CDS-Banking (2007-8). These were not just economic downturns but real threats that changed our lives (terror; losing home). Meanwhile and gradually jobs shifted elsewhere, industry became automated, education expensive and inflated, and companies maximized profits. That accumulates to major radical cultural shift. (TLDR: "Damn Banksters!")

It really started as a small note. But this has turned out into "Quarky's Sociological Guide to Generations" ...

 

[Quarky00]

As speculated the problem with the virus is it being infectious (though at levels similar to flu) -- before or while being asymptomatic .

So if you've been infected and only present symptoms on day #7 for example -- these would be (a) non alarming flu-like symptoms , (b) you will be infectious on day 4 or 5 , well before you get sick. And that was the problem. As more evidence emerge SARS-2 is not extremely lethal or infectious in itself -- it just slips under the radar so easy (thus spreads unnoticed). Most of this was already in the news so nothing new here, just an "intermediate followup" on previous post.

As widely reported this French person was hospitalized on Dec 27 , so may have caught SARS-2 as early as Dec 14 = spreads fast because goes unnoticed and takes time to manifest .

Coronavirus: France's first known case 'was in December'

The case means Covid-19 may have arrived in Europe almost a month earlier than previously thought.

www.bbc.com

Interesting to see the high variability of onset & duration (X-axis) and viral load (or some relative assessment of it; Y-axis).




It could still overwhelm hospitals & the economy rapidly. Sadly no economist bothered to do real estimates of no-lockdown situation. We have many economic impact assessments about the lockdown , the intentional shutting down of the economy , but none about how economy would have worked without lockdown:

• Business as usual
• 50% asymptomatic
• 30% mild flu
• 15% hospitalized
• 4% ventilated
• 1% dead

How much will that cost us? Economists are somewhat dumb for not addressing that. [1] [2] . Medical research, which is rather complicated, is faster than "spreadsheet statistics"....

I don't know where to post this , as it's mostly boring scientific insights regarding SARSCov2 , and this thread is about sharing thoughts and feelings about it , so I am sorry for polluting this thread :)


This is , however , not particularly new or alarming:



So it's not more persistent or durable outside the body . Question remains: what makes it more infectious?


This is , however , just a speculation . Others were raised as well:





As for viral load , it does not mean you're more ill :


Which is unique .


However it does mean you're more infectious to others.

And this is one of the main reasons it spreads so quick.

Incubation period: time between infection and symptoms.
Shedding: expression of virus from host to environment. (basically becoming infectious)


This is unlike Ebola , for example , which is not infectious during incubation .

Questions about COVID-19 and viral load -- describes immune response (inflammation vs. antibodies) , and the significance of high/rapid viral load.

In some grotesque sense this virus found the 'sweet spot' : as infectious as SARS-1 , but not as deadly .
(right in the middle: 10 times less fatal than SARS1, but 10 times deadlier than flu)

View attachment 31046

Most of the information here was known , published , researched or discussed before March 1 , and at most by March 15 -- so it's not very "new" .


Sadly , during that time , when these things were known , WHO published misleading (though not false) statements:


No , idiots , around 50% of people were shedding without any symptoms ... And this was known.
(50% asymptomatic + 30% mild = 80% non-hospitalized)





This is a question of numbers and threshold , and interestingly there is always influenza around us (hence the importance of viral load):


There were 3 influenza pandemics: 1918, 1957, and 1968 , all 3 different antigenic subtypes of influenza type A virus: H1N1, H2N2, and H3N2 respectively . (type-> subtype -> linease -> strain -> isolate) . Each of these pandemics had at least 2-3 successive waves -- and an increase in the case-fatality rate in the later waves . This does not mean SARS-2 will act the same , but it's interesting to see .



TLDR: Asymptomatic shedding with high viral load

cc: @Underscore

 

[Carina]

Really the Gen X (those like 1975/6 and later) are more millennial than not in things. They had the first of all the tech, computers in school, etc. Like things Millennials are like "we had this!" gen X of those years are like 'uh, yeah, so did we, we had the first.' basically lol.


I like calling Gen X, Generation meteor, as most seem to be like "screw it, just kill us please"

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Some of these dates vary among sources. My parents are Baby Boomers, born in the early 1940s, some sources say Gen X started in the earlier 1960s and ended at 1980, etc.

I never identified with the Gen X label. In my 20s we were called selfish and lazy, we were going to doom the Western world, while I was working my ass off and didn't have the ennui like the movie Reality Bites. The Breakfast Club was much more representative of the social circles among white folks in my high school, only we would have never had a unifying experience in detention.

 

[Quarky00]

Really the Gen X (those like 1975/6 and later) are more millennial than not in things. They had the first of all the tech, computers in school, etc. Like things Millennials are like "we had this!" gen X of those years are like 'uh, yeah, so did we, we had the first.' basically lol.

I know what you mean ;) But those were just 'buds' . The 80s teenagers seen it all before , but the change is amazing .

I'll be more precise:

• if you were born in 1975, when you were 8 years old (1983) you were more likely to go outside and play rather than sit 6 hours on the computer. Gaming was very primitive and computers were scarce -- only 10% of households.
• If you were born in 1985, when you were 8 years old (1993), computer games become abundant and that industry was booming. Many children spent hours on the computer. Around 40% of households had a computer.

And yeah , I have graphs for everything

( I wouldn't take the percentage as is , but indicative )


Same goes for "rave culture". There were plenty of parties in the 80s. Even before that disco culture and nightclubs took off, pop music flourished, and MTV kicked off. But things really exploded in the 90s -- look at the intoxicated masses in Love Parades and Ibiza. People were literally dancing in the streets. And you were born to that.


I know it was just a fun remark, and I agree. Despite some 'didactic' tone I'm just using that to share more info It's breathtaking how things really fundamentally changed.... Being born to some disco & pop culture, some Sinclair/Atari/XT --- and being born to full-on rave/clubbing and computers everywhere! Wow.

I like calling Gen X, Generation meteor, as most seem to be like "screw it, just kill us please"

Totally. This really describes many 45yo I knew.
I don't know how to describe those vibes, like a deep ongoing desperate and accepted "nothing matters" menatility/life (?).

 

[Deleted member 1465]

When I was 8 I played out. Bloody computers wrecked everything. Technology, the curse of human cultural evolution through the ages of the anthropocene.

 

[faust]

@Quarky00 Generation X in our understanding has a bit different meaning. This is the generation born during or a bit after the fall of USSR, often named a "doomer" generation. We were born on the crossroads where old ideals did not matter anymore and new ideals are not acceptable.
I did not find a good video to explain that, but this one is more similar to truth. This is not the same generation X you are talking about.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

@Quarky00 Generation X in our understanding has a bit different meaning. This is the generation born during or a bit after the fall of USSR, often named a "doomer" generation. We were born on the crossroads where old ideals did not matter anymore and new ideals are not acceptable.
I did not find a good video to explain that, but this one is more similar to truth. This is not the same generation X you are talking about.

That makes more sense now. Where in the world are you from that Generation X has a different span of years and a different way of viewing things than the traditional Western Generation X that I'm a part of?

It is certainly that way now, that the old ideals don't matter and the new ones aren't acceptable. Doom, dystopia, nihilism -- even worse than the ennui and directionlessness of the traditional Western Gen X, and far more accurate.

 

[Quarky00]

@Quarky00 Generation X in our understanding has a bit different meaning. This is the generation born during or a bit after the fall of USSR, often named a "doomer" generation. We were born on the crossroads where old ideals did not matter anymore and new ideals are not acceptable.
I did not find a good video to explain that, but this one is more similar to truth. This is not the same generation X you are talking about.

Generation X is a common well understood term ...... I understand the 'Doomer' term -- I have detailed the causes for that in my previous post. That's the empty angst of Millennials and Zenners (shared by others/olders as well of course). I don't see people using "Generation X" to actually refer to those Millennials/Z -- that would be extremely confusing

I don't know what is your understanding but to say Gen X for those born post-USSR -- is like saying "World War 1" started in 1939 ;)

 

[faust]

@Quarky00 @GoodPersonEffed I am from Eastern Europe, one of the former USSR country. Generation "X" is not an official name, it can be named "X" because this is an implication of a lost generation. A kind of generation which is stuck on the crossroad. It has nothing common with real generation X. The population of former USSR countries started falling in early 90s and growth started falling rapidly in late 80s. And in early 90s growth turned negative.

 

[SpareWheel]

Generation-X sounds like something from Resident Evil. Beats Millennial though.