Venting Complaints on being an Immigrant.

[miq2k]

[my nails and my palms are brighter than the rest of my skin, and where there are knuckles and bones it is darker, my hair looks short no matter I cut it or not. My cheekbones are placed high on my face, my lips share two colors, from one to other like an ombré, and my eyes and teeth pierce through the darkness of my skin and the surrounding world, because I come from a country where it does not snow.]
Once a migrant; always a migrant.

[I share this pool of genetics with you: you look like me and I look like you and people tell me this is home: Home is.
But where I went, I became exactly like them, so when we share this genetic pool but I open my mouth suddenly I am made different. The words I speak are so morbid on the tongue to you, that you could not endure them written out. Because to the country I went, the peoples skin and teeth and eyes and lips and palms all look the same, to the country I went, it snowed. Suddenly I am shaped unlike you. Unlike you, I am a migrant where I went, and I came back, and I was a migrant here.]
Once a migrant; always a migrant.



This is poetry I wrote about this feeling of alienation and loneliness and disappointment.
To be a migrant means to question how far a country can impose itself onto you, the individual, and the answer is disappointing but so incredibly valid. Every nation has a right to impose itself on itself internally. The people of the Nation choose about their country and they are justified in doing so. (I just want to know why I am not seen as a part of that nation.)
But what do you do when you belong to both or three or however many ethnic identities you have, and none at the same time.

To be me, somebody hated at home1 for being Black-Muslim, Queer, Trans and Atheist, and to also be me, hated in home2 for being "corrupted by the west & Whitewashed", Queer, Trans and an Atheist again, is to always feel the requirement of assimilation enforced upon you.

It is okay that I don't have a country anymore. I am unwelcome as I am and I can live with that. But to not be able anywhere on earth to live my life fully and true to me is simply… painful.
I have made peace with being an enemy everywhere I go but I have not yet with not being able to live out my selfhood.

When I was still a child I believed that I truly belonged to the country I went, I looked at the world around me and it was pale skin and my eyes could only observe what was not me and I thought I was just like them. But I did not know that everyone else around me could see me: and I looked like a stain on their perfect white.

As an adolescent and now, me and my family moved back home for many reasons, but the resentful stare did not disappear, people didn't look at me with that resentful stare anymore because I was black, or because my name was hard to pronounce, but because of the language I spoke, my broken Arabic, my fashion, my mannerism, my ideas. I was a stranger now because I was made into one..

I am now, still questioning if my assimilation to Germany was always wrong, that I should've stuck to what my family and family at home had always told me to be but that too wouldve been assimilation as my atheism and queerness would still be things I would need to conceal. Aside from that, it is also incredibly u fair to expect that of somebody.

And I am still questioning now, If I just assimilate more, more, a little more if I just prove myself enough, will I maybe finally be accepted? But it is not about how German I am or how much I prove I am culturally aligned. I don't look the part. I simply will never be welcome, as a result of how I was born.


I am 3ternally thankful however for the small pocket societies outside of the Mehrheitsgesellschaft (NO idea how to translate that) that always accepted me in Germany. Other queer, trans, third culture kids with the same experiences and interests that showed me, acceptance can be found even when circumstances make it seem impossible.
Thank you 3ternally 2 my friends back home that love me, and to the people I will also find here that will also accept me.


If I made typos forgive me, I kinda can't be bothered.

 

[FluffIsJustice]

If it is of any condolence to you - I find skin with more melanin (sry for the weird expression, I just really dont want to be racist) to look really smooth and pretty. My own white skin just looks weird with all the blue veins (wanted to say it because you called it a stain on perfect white, sry if I messed up somewhere somehow... or come across as a creep lmao)

 

[miq2k]

If it is of any condolence to you - I find skin with more melanin (sry for the weird expression, I just really dont want to be racist) to look really smooth and pretty. My own white skin just looks weird with all the blue veins (wanted to say it because you called it a stain on perfect white, sry if I messed up somewhere somehow... or come across as a creep lmao)

It's completely fine, thank you so much! I too really love my dark skin and now that I am back in Sudan im sooo excited to have my skin be even darker!!!

*Also I really love pale skin, the translucence that makes the veins appear is so beautiful, like a milk water veil and it looks sooooo beautiful when they blush!

 

[fishperson]

pick a side. islam or any religion is holding u back from something much bigger

 

[miq2k]

pick a side. islam or any religion is holding u back from something much bigger

What do you mean? Personally I'm not Muslim, but my entire bloodline is and so I kind of am without carrying the faith. I am an atheist.



(I would really appreciate if this conversation remained respectful, the last thing I want is more Islamophobia/racism/transphobia/homophobia or xenophobia than I already experience. Voice your opinions freely but please do not spread hatred)

 

[fishperson]

u literally said "being Black-Muslim". my point is , if u r an atheist act like it , and stop defending religion. u need to let go of the cultural things that make u feel like u dont belong. and religion is one of them. all it does is cause harm and destroys civilizations

 

[miq2k]

u literally said "being Black-Muslim". my point is , if u r an atheist act like it , and stop defending religion. u need to let go of the cultural things that make u feel like u dont belong. and religion is one of them. all it does is cause harm and destroys civilizations

It's not about the way I identify myself, at least with that particular label! My name is Muslim however and all of my heritage is. Being Muslim is something that is pushed onto me no matter if I believe in Islam or not. At home, enforced upon me with no real bad intentions, just their fear for me that I will go to hell.
And in Germany because they cannot handle a nuanced way of understanding me.


However here again I can notice a parallel. You focused particularly on the religion Islam, which so many people I've alreday met in Germany did.
Why is that?
Do you truly believe it is because I am or was or am told to be Muslim that I am not accepted anywhere, or because every society in its own way has the "ideal human".
And I just so happen to never align with any ideal.
I argue I'm simply human as are all of us, there should be no ideal
And I should not have to justify myself to any greater society, or to you (in a much smaller scale though, but it's fine! I take it as a test for how coherent my beliefs are and as a chance to learn new perspectives)

 

[fishperson]

It's not about the way I identify myself, at least with that particular label! My name is Muslim however and all of my heritage is. Being Muslim is something that is pushed onto me no matter if I believe in Islam or not. At home, enforced upon me with no real bad intentions, just their fear for me that I will go to hell.
And in Germany because they cannot handle a nuanced way of understanding me.


However here again I can notice a parallel. You focused particularly on the religion Islam, which so many people I've alreday met in Germany did.
Why is that?
Do you truly believe it is because I am or was or am told to be Muslim that I am not accepted anywhere, or because every society in its own way has the "ideal human".
And I just so happen to never align with any ideal.
I argue I'm simply human as are all of us, there should be no ideal
And I should not have to justify myself to any greater society, or to you (in a much smaller scale though, but it's fine! I take it as a test for how coherent my beliefs are and as a chance to learn new perspectives)

u could always change ur name. or use another name with ur friends. u can make effort to belong somewhere else. i lived and still live in a muslim country. i know what this book is about and what this religion is about. if u cannot realise how fucked it is. then u need a wake up call.
and yes european societies are greater than ours , thats the pill to swallow and thats why u are an immigrant. because deeply u know they are much better than ur home land. and u have to make other people feel safe with ur opinions and presence the same way u wish for them to treat u.
exemple : a girl sitting and has a choice to choose between sitting in two rooms , one room has a guy called muslim and the other called james. which room would she choose.
this is just an exemple , my point us , u can choose to change how u represent urself and dissociate urself from everything that u dont agree with

 

[FluffIsJustice]

It might be a bit more similar to this situation (this is a guess, so do correct me if I am wrong): Someone whos not religious knows some very religious people (they are close) and is subsequently forced to attend religious rituals (like mass for example) (because you must of course do so, from their perspective) so that person just sort of sits there feeling like they are surrounded by a cult ... (of course they could absolutely refuse (or accidentally fall asleep instead), but it would negatively impact the relationship, so are you willing to sever it?)
Also, I am considered christian in any way or form including in all the relevant documents, did all the rituals from baptism to first communion and so forth (is usual here, everyone does it with their kids (from newborns to seven / eight year olds - we did not really get what it means at the time, we just thought that now we also get something to eat after having to kneel and wait for so long). Then you grow up and dont end up religious at all, but the documents are still there and you are still considered a part of it (you did do all the rituals after all).

 

[miq2k]

u could always change ur name. or use another name with ur friends. u can make effort to belong somewhere else. i lived and still live in a muslim country. i know what this book is about and what this religion is about. if u cannot realise how fucked it is. then u need a wake up call.
and yes european societies are greater than ours , thats the pill to swallow and thats why u are an immigrant. because deeply u know they are much better than ur home land. and u have to make other people feel safe with ur opinions and presence the same way u wish for them to treat u.
exemple : a girl sitting and has a choice to choose between sitting in two rooms , one room has a guy called muslim and the other called james. which room would she choose.
this is just an exemple , my point us , u can choose to change how u represent urself and dissociate urself from everything that u dont agree with

HOLY internalized cononialism & white supremacy.

1. I do, legally it's more difficult because I carry more than one Citizenship & Passport, but all my friends call me a different name from my legal birth name.
2. Not true. Europe having become so strong and wealthy is a result of colonialism and neocolonialism. There is no "inherently superior race/human", there is only the humanity we all carry within is that shoukd always be respected and protected.
We are all equal.
Societies both in the broader Arabic speaking world and in Europe can be criticized and complimented heavily for various things. Germany can be criticized for its insanely deeply rooted white supremacy meanwhile Sudan can be criticized for its heavy supervision of the individual in relation to society.
But no society or culture or people are INHERENTLY superior from another. There are shortcomings that can be named and addressed, but they have no relation to Race, Ethnicity or Culture.
3. It would be racist to pick a person depending on their name. We cannot know who is more dangerous tu the girl just based on the name without having our own prejudices.
For all we know, it's 50/50.

Unless ofcourse we have racial prejudice against one and so we assume because of his Ethnicity he is more "dangerous". Thats bullshit though.

 

[fishperson]

HOLY internalized cononialism & white supremacy.

1. I do, legally it's more difficult because I carry more than one Citizenship & Passport, but all my friends call me a different name from my legal birth name.
2. Not true. Europe having become so strong and wealthy is a result of colonialism and neocolonialism. There is no "inherently superior race/human", there is only the humanity we all carry within is that shoukd always be respected and protected.
We are all equal.
Societies both in the broader Arabic speaking world and in Europe can be criticized and complimented heavily for various things. Germany can be criticized for its insanely deeply rooted white supremacy meanwhile Sudan can be criticized for its heavy supervision of the individual in relation to society.
But no society or culture or people are INHERENTLY superior from another. There are shortcomings that can be named and addressed, but they have no relation to Race, Ethnicity or Culture.
3. It would be racist to pick a person depending on their name. We cannot know who is more dangerous tu the girl just based on the name without having our own prejudices.
For all we know, it's 50/50.

Unless ofcourse we have racial prejudice against one and so we assume because of his Ethnicity he is more "dangerous". Thats bullshit though.

religion , isnt A RACE. and no , their society is better because of they are not delusionaly religious and are more accepting.
was fun having a conversation with u , but it seems like u will always be stuck in ur fairy land

 

[miq2k]

religion , isnt A RACE. and no , their society is better because of they are not delusionaly religious and are more accepting.
was fun having a conversation with u , but it seems like u will always be stuck in ur fairy land

But Religion is used as a way to classify people into categories and create prejudice based on that. We can of course look at the objective measures and I definitely do prefer Germany over Sudan still but, Europe tends to shape their countries to be good for only one kind of person, which we can definitely see from Germany as an example: The recent Elections proving that they want to shape Germany as a place for Germans only as defined by RELIGION, Ethnicity & Heritage.


Religion is a personal thing for everyone, I personally do not believe but that is my choice. Religion enforced upon others is to be condemned, societally, socially, legally or otherwise.





Why do you insist upon European supremacy?

 

[NonEssential]

I can relate to the feelings of loneliness and isolation when it comes to being an immigrant.
I don't have it as rough as you because my appearance isn't very different from the people here. I just never felt like my skills at the language and culture were good enough to find any friends here. (Has been so for like 12 years lol)

 

[fishperson]

i do not believe in european supremacy , i just believe they followed the correct route. a route that needs specific parameters. and one of those parameters is to separate religion from politics. and no religion isnt a personal thing. if someone is muslim , it implies they probably have misogynistic beliefs and superiority complex etc etc. a danger to a culture that's accepting to others. in other words religion can kill great socities from within

 

[miq2k]

I can relate to the feelings of loneliness and isolation when it comes to being an immigrant.
I don't have it as rough as you because my appearance isn't very different from the people here. I just never felt like my skills at the language and culture were good enough to find any friends here. (Has been so for like 12 years lol)

12 years holy shit. It's tough out here soldier.
I'm so sorry. But trying to find individual people to be with helps a lot more than trying to appeal to an entire collective, Thats what I learned at least. After a while, you will notice through that you have already become a part of the culture.

i do not believe in european supremacy , i just believe they followed the correct route. a route that needs specific parameters. and one of those parameters is to separate religion from politics. and no religion isnt a personal thing. if someone is muslim , it implies they probably have misogynistic beliefs and superiority complex etc etc. a danger to a culture that's accepting to others. in other words religion can kill great socities from within

Anti theism isnt even necessarily wrong. I can agree with it on some points.
But your insistence that ONLY the Europeans can 'do it right' (let's define right) when right now it is proving itself they obviously are failing shows me you believe that one is inherently better. Even if that may not be what you belive that is what ends up showing.

The history of the Arabic world after colonialism, WW1 & WW2 ANS neocolonialism and proxy wars and invasion and so on, makes it so that there countries are too bust surviving to be able to thrive. The effect of these disastrous events, often done by Europe to them are still following them. When a country is in that state, it tends to contract in on itself as a defense mechanism, so conservatism, tribalism and so on is to be expected. But that is not a failure of these countries of their people, it is the effects of war following.

The Arabic speaking world smells of death, and the blood is on Europe. Thats how most of the west finances their wealth: through the exploitation of the "third world".
That is not a controversial take.
To then blame these exact countries for the bis done to them by the west is ironic at best.

Man I hate the word "The west" and "third world", but I used them to hopefully make it clear which countries I mean in general.

 

[Ramin]

But no society or culture or people are INHERENTLY superior from another

It depends. If we consider that there are things objectively right and wrong, and that therefore morals aren't relative, then I would argue that that isn't true. For example, if islam doesn't say the objective truth, then things like the obligatory use of burqas are a disrespect to women's rights, thus making cultures that make rules like this one "worse" speaking from this point of view.
Another example from a religious point of view now: if people do have souls and killing is always evil because life is precious, then indigenous cultures whose parents kill their own children when they see they're disabled are morally inferior than others where this doesn't happen.
This was just a thought experiment though, I don't believe in objective morals or truth, but I think you do so this can be something to think about.

Religion enforced upon others is to be condemned, societally, socially, legally or otherwise.

Then would you agree that cultures that put religion above everything else are inferior to secular ones? And yes, I know that the way a state works doesn't necessarily comes from its culture, but some cultures do push religion as a priority and use it to oppress others (even without the use of the State), don't you think?

 

[miq2k]

It depends. If we consider that there are things objectively right and wrong, and that therefore morals aren't relative, then I would argue that that isn't true. For example, if islam doesn't say the objective truth, then things like the obligatory use of burqas are a disrespect to women's rights, thus making cultures that make rules like this one "worse" speaking from this point of view.
Another example from a religious point of view now: if people do have souls and killing is always evil because life is precious, then indigenous cultures whose parents kill their own children when they see they're disabled are morally inferior than others where this doesn't happen.
This was just a thought experiment though, I don't believe in objective morals or truth, but I think you do so this can be something to think about.

Then would you agree that cultures that put religion above everything else are inferior to secular ones? And yes, I know that the way a state works doesn't necessarily comes from its culture, but some cultures do push religion as a priority and use it to oppress others (even without the use of the State), don't you think?

1.1. However Afghanistan is very special in that. In that the Burqa is never even mentioned this way in the Quran, INFACT, it is incredibly undecided how a headscarf is to be worn.
That with Afghanistan is an Afghanistan thing, not an Islam thing. That is in fact the culture.
Maybe I didn't elaborate that point enough but: in every culture there are things that can be good and things that can be bad and we may name and address all of them and discuss them. However, that a people is through their culture said to be "lesser" is what bothers me. Which is why I argued "I don't believe that there are superior cultures" I guess synonymously to "I don't believe people can be put into categories of good and bad/valid and invalid/valuable and not valuable based on their culture"

1.2. What bothers me here is that, we focus so much on having the foreign justify itself. I see so much wrong with Islam and the Arabic world and everyday I complain about these things but to the rest of the world I need to stand as a defense to not make the rampant Islamophobia and xenophobia EVEN worse. I will not defend the indefensible but, where I can, I am forced into a position where I NEED to out of a duty to not make the hatred worse.
This entire thread turned into noticing how Islam was ALWAYS Mentioned but Germanys racism, Homophobia, Transphobia weren't, because what the scapegoat is, is the Arabs and the Muslims. When it originally began with my experiences of being denied in BOTH worlds. Yet look how only one is condemned, questioned & made to justify itself in its existence, not only it's presentation.



2. Inferior in what way. Defined by what? Justice/Injustice, Fairness, Freedom/Liberty, Harmony, Peace?
How do you measure how one culture is better from another OBJECTIVELY. To the people who live in that supposedly inferior culture they might all fully agree with it, as I am seeing in Sudan, where the margin of people who disagree is so small it is practically nonexistent, because the people hold onto their culture and beliefs, because they grew up in it and it works for them as defined for themselves by them as they have every right to. Again we go all the way up to my first few sentences that every nation has a right to impose itself on itself internally. FROM THE OUTSIDE a German, a European of any kind, an American may not look at Sudan for example as speak "What an inferior culture, ours is different, we are better because we have other values", when the consensus in that culture is agreement upon it. It may also not look at it and see people revolting against their culture to change some things and say "How horrible that the dominant beliefs do not let themselves be changed easily and therefore people are dying or struggling which makes them inferior because WE HAVE NEVER HAD SOMETHING LIKE THIS EVER".
Because the people will do their own fucking thing that they will agree upon and it will be theirs. And because THATS HAPPENING EVERYWHERE ALWAYS AT THE SAME TIME BUT IN THE WEST WE YAP ABOUT THE HORRIBLE SAVAGE THIRD WORLD AND IN THE "THIRD WORLD" WE YAP ABOUT THE CORRUPTED WEST.
It's the same fucking moral panic everywhere.
I apologize for my tone. But I am getting incredibly fed up with justifying more and more and more and more and more as if this shouldn't be self evident.

This is also why I do not claim to have a country or Sudan should change for me or Germany should, no one owes me anything like that. But I am owed the right to live out my own life.
And that is all that this entire post was ever supposed to be about.




In addition, to the whole objectively better culture stuff:

If colonial history had been that Fuckass Sudan colonized Great Britain, Sudan and Africa would me the mfs with the technological progress and we would all look at Europe spewing "oh look how they have issues with their culture and maintaining peace we Never had that bruhhhhhh".
Maybe just maybe Africa and the whole global south were just set back decades and years of progress as a result of the shit they endured.


Thank you for listening to my Ted talk & Happy Easter 🫩

 

[Ramin]

in every culture there are things that can be good and things that can be bad and we may name and address all of them and discuss them. However, that a people is through their culture said to be "lesser" is what bothers me

I also don't think someone is a person better than the other just because they are born in a place with a "better" culture, that would just be tribalism. But believing that all cultures have the same quantity of bad and good things in a single point of view, is a little naive in my opinion. All cultures can be good or bad from different points of view, but they all can't be good at the same time because that would superimpose some values which are contrary to each other.

where I can, I am forced into a position where I NEED to out of a duty to not make the hatred worse.
This entire thread turned into noticing how Islam was ALWAYS Mentioned but Germanys racism, Homophobia, Transphobia weren't

I see. I'm sorry you have to deal with that, miq. But my post wasn't a critique to islam at all, the "disrespect of women's rights" arguments is only true under the condition of the POV which I stated previously. One could also argue that all other cultures who don't use burqas are disrespecting God's law and therefore are inferior (from said POV). The whole situation on Germany just didn't fit on what I was talking about so I thought it wasn't relevant to my post, but if my opinion about what's happening there matters for you, then what I can tell you is that the points of view that favor tribalistic ideals are winning. I don't believe in cultural rootedness in the land but I can't really change how others think :/
And more specifically about how they treat LGBT people there, I think I just don't have enough knowledge to comment on this topic.

How do you measure how one culture is better from another OBJECTIVELY

I think you misunderstood me. In my post, I didn't affirm that any culture is better than the other universally, I said it depends on the moral point of view of the observer. But if you think that there are things that are objectively right and wrong, then as I said in my post, there should be cultures that are better than others in YOUR personal vision, and the justification for that would be on why you think your vision about morality is the correct one.

Thank you for listening to my Ted talk & Happy Easter 🫩

No problem ;)