Discussion (Christians only!!) if a Christian commits suicide, do they end up in hell?

[everydayiloveyou]

I don't see why that should scare you. It's not nothingness as in 'an endless black void' (like in space) but a complete and utter lack of consciousness. You seem to presuppose you'll be able to observe this nothingness which seems extremely unlikely as it would imply your consciousness somehow survived your physical death (i.e. the destruction of the brain).

How can something be bad when (and aslong) you're completely unaware of it?

Yeah I know it's an irrational fear to have lol. But I actually enjoy living to a degree, like existence as a concept isn't all that bad to me. I just have problems and they make my quality of life shitty. If I wasn't born the way I was I don't think I would be on here.

That's why I take solace in religion, I know the science agrees with what you said, that our brain will cease functioning and so will our perception of anything. But ideally, I'd like to experience life again, just differently. I know that's not physically possible, but it's the last bit of control that I feel I have over anything I guess.

 

[raindrops]

Is it okay to say I don't believe but respect that you do
I watched a couple of videos on YouTube, one about a boy who could remember his past life, he could recall how he died, where he died.
What if we just come back again, but I don't think we're suppose to remember. It is strange that boy could recall his past life and his mother says he never watched anything about this person he said he once was.

Is it okay to say I don't believe but respect that you do
I watched a couple of videos on YouTube, one about a boy who could remember his past life, he could recall how he died, where he died.
What if we just come back again, but I don't think we're suppose to remember. It is strange that boy could recall his past life and his mother says he never watched anything about this person he said he once was.

One thing that scares me though is some people say your life flashes before your eyes as you die all the good and bad things, everything.
I know a lady who said when she was on the operating table she could see a white light and it was coming closer and closer, then she woke up, I wonder what that white light is that she seen coming for her.

I am so sorry I'm awful at reading things, you said Christians only... I suppose I'm sceptical, like I wonder if that white light was heaven?

 

[esse_est_percipi]

The Church (whether Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox) has come a long way since condemning the souls of the suicidal to hell, primarily due to a better understanding of mental illness.

I find it odd that the church shifts its moral positions in accordance with scientific advancements, yet it also asserts an absolute pretention to be the revealed truth about human existence. If all feels like a lot of cognitive dissonance has to be accommodated.
If it got everything right 2,000 years ago through God's divine revelation, why the modifications to fit science on moral and cosmological questions? And if it didn't get everything right, this undermines the whole story about God and divine revelation through the church. This all seems to require quite a bit of doublethink.

 

[lost guy]

As a Christian, I was raised to believe that suicide is a sin. In order to be forgiven of the sin, one must repent and ask for forgiveness. The problem is, how can one repent if they are dead?

Over the past several years, I have put a lot of thought on how God and Jesus loves. Clearly I don't have a definite answer, but I have concluded that God and Jesus love me and understand my mental struggles that have led me to no longer wanting to live. Therefore, since I know they love me, then I hope I will not be denied entry into Heaven.

I do want to believe that I can still go to Heaven if I were to kill myself. But I don't know for sure, so all I can do is hold out hope and still praise God and Jesus. I will always continue to pray and ask forgiveness for suicidal thoughts. That is all I can do.

 

[Sherri]

According to Christianity yes, it's very hard to find a priest that wants to make a funeral for someone who commits suicide.

 

[Soul]

According to Christianity yes, it's very hard to find a priest that wants to make a funeral for someone who commits suicide.

Don't you mean some particular branch of Christianity, like Presbyterians or Catholics? Just curious. If God loves us so much, why be so nasty to the families of suicides?

 

[Futile]

Samson kills himself in the bible and yet it's considered a hero so it's clear that there are exceptions. As a general rule I'd say you have to do what you think it's the best choice.

Don't you mean some particular branch of Christianity, like Presbyterians or Catholics?

How is catholicism a branch of christianity? It literally is christianity in its purest form, if anything orthodoxy and protestantism are branches

 

[MeriDeath]

I'm not christian but my religion is similar to yours. Anyways, I can tell your there is no such thing as hell. You've suffered enough here it's impossible for your soul to suffer even more. I don't believe there's a god that judges you for all you've done because seriously let's face it, you must have had your reasons, some people are mentally ill and don't know what they do at times, do they deserve hell because of that? That's not a kind and understanding god right there. If there's a god above, he should know all your story. He didn't help you while you were suffering, what could he possibly expect you to do? Just my 2 cents.

 

[Soul]

How is catholicism a branch of christianity? It literally is christianity in its purest form, if anything orthodoxy and protestantism are branches

Due respect and all, but the Catholic Church I've observed is nowhere near a "purest form" of anything. It changes with every period, conquest, pope, bull, ecumenical congress; it absorbs pre-existing rituals; and the wealth and bling of it has nothing in common with the life and words of Jesus. *That* would surely be "the purest form of Christianity": the life and words of Jesus.

 

[Sherri]

Don't you mean some particular branch of Christianity, like Presbyterians or Catholics? Just curious. If God loves us so much, why be so nasty to the families of suicides?

All Christianity believes suicidal people that our soul is doomed forever. Muslims too. Most of religions actually.

 

[EraseRewind]

I'm going to hell anyway so I don't think it will matter.

 

[Sinkinshyp]

As a Christian, I was raised to believe that suicide is a sin. In order to be forgiven of the sin, one must repent and ask for forgiveness. The problem is, how can one repent if they are dead?

Over the past several years, I have put a lot of thought on how God and Jesus loves. Clearly I don't have a definite answer, but I have concluded that God and Jesus love me and understand my mental struggles that have led me to no longer wanting to live. Therefore, since I know they love me, then I hope I will not be denied entry into Heaven.

I do want to believe that I can still go to Heaven if I were to kill myself. But I don't know for sure, so all I can do is hold out hope and still praise God and Jesus. I will always continue to pray and ask forgiveness for suicidal thoughts. That is all I can do.

I agree with everything you've said. My son died in a car accident. That has pushed me over the edge in this shit show of a life I was born into hell. I think we are in hell. I also think I could drink SN and ask for forgiveness before I passed out and I would be forgiven. God & Jesus know the pain I've dealt with in this existence. They know my sons death was the straw to break the camels back.

 

[lost guy]

I agree with everything you've said. My son died in a car accident. That has pushed me over the edge in this shit show of a life I was born into hell. I think we are in hell. I also think I could drink SN and ask for forgiveness before I passed out and I would be forgiven. God & Jesus know the pain I've dealt with in this existence. They know my sons death was the straw to break the camels back.

I'm sorry you have to go through the loss of your son. My hell on Earth began when she left me after 11 years. Plus, I've battled anxiety my entire life. I have always felt different than others.

I just turned 40 and I simply cannot move forward anymore. When she left, I no longer have access to the things that brought me joy. I know God and Jesus see my pain. I pray everyday to be healed. I beg for mercy. They know I am a believer.

 

[Catlovergirl]

Hay peeps I'm christian but not not religious meaning I don't go to church or anything however I do believe in god/high power/source etc and not for one moment do I believe if you take your own life you go to hell. I'm more into the spiritual side of things and they say suicide souls go to the exact same place all of us go, we that take our lives are helped and assisted even more by our guardian angels and other beautiful beings from the other side. God doesn't judge you guys it's you that will have the opportunity to judge yourself on what ever you decide. Here are some great links:

4. When a Loved One Passes On by Suicide - Soul Proof

Here is evidence no one dies and 10 things you must know to deal with the death of a loved one by suicide by Dr. Mark Pitstick...

www.soulproof.com

25. Pre-Birth Planning: Did I REALLY Choose All This? - Soul Proof

Here's evidence there really is a soul plan for all of us, as well as questions and answers about suicide, murder and much more...

www.soulproof.com

 

[Soul]

All Christianity believes suicidal people that our soul is doomed forever. Muslims too. Most of religions actually.

I was asking which priests don't want to conduct a funeral for a suicide. That's very cruel to the families of suicides, and quite unlike the loving Father that Jesus talked about.

Also, please note that there's nothing in the bible saying there's anything wrong with suicide, so it seems like a misunderstanding that "all Christianity" believes any one thing about it.

Update: @Sherri, if you google "funerals for suicide" you'll see for yourself. Then try "Muslim funerals for suicide".

 

[WaitingWesting]

Im a former christian and i no longer believe in the concept of heaven or hell or 1 all seeing god. We are made of matter and energy forged in supernovas long ago and eventuly we will return our minerals to the earth and our energy will be liberated. Weather or not there is conciness in that energy idk but it is my hope that it will live on beyond my current phsycal form and trencend to another existance elsewhere in another time and place. If not at least i can take comfort in the quiet darkness that awaits even if it means black nothingness...like a deep sleep with no dream.

 

[Futile]

Due respect and all, but the Catholic Church I've observed is nowhere near a "purest form" of anything. It changes with every period, conquest, pope, bull, ecumenical congress; it absorbs pre-existing rituals; and the wealth and bling of it has nothing in common with the life and words of Jesus. *That* would surely be "the purest form of Christianity": the life and words of Jesus.

Catholicism is the word of Jesus, all the bulls and everything were just to discuss the better ways to interpretate it. Orthodoxy and protestantism detached themselves from catholicism purely for political/cultural reasons, thus diverging from the original word.

In fact most catholics and orthodoxs don't even consider protestants as christians, because honestly it's just more of a weird parody than anything (especially with all that american stuff like mormons etc)

Believe in what you want but calling catholicism a mere branch of christianity is wrong

 

[Gnip]

No, there is nothing in the Judeo-Christian Bible which condemns suicide:

https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/people/related-articles/suicide-in-the-bible

My mother went to a private Catholic college in the mid 1950's, was certified to teach Latin and read the Old and New Testaments in Latin. Her position on my potential self administered euthanasia and that of others is that we would be excluded from Hell due to "Diminished Capacity."

Incidentally, most "Christian" evangelists have NEVER actually read even the King James Bible (as former PTL scam artist Jim Bakker admitted to Larry King after his release from prison, Bakker finally reading the Bible in jail because there was such limited reading material and so much time to spend doing little else but read in his cell).

 

[hypnotizing chickens]

Even murderers can be saved. If you murder yourself, why should you not be saved?

 

[OnlyTheWind]

There's nothing in the Bible that specifically condemns the act of suicide. The Old Testament is mostly concerned with the killing of others and the surrounding circumstances of the killing. I think it has mostly been inferred from the commandment that suicide is wrong. This topic is a real can of worms :)

 

[lonelymountaingirl]

This is also my fear and sometimes it's what's kept me here and when I do probably make it to the bus stop, I'm worried that it'll be a long drive down south.

There are so many ways to look at it. No one can possibly say which is the true answer.

I am scared that I'm too broken to be taken in and that I'll be rejected.

And—I'll have to accept that.

 

[Deleted member 94]

Due respect and all, but the Catholic Church I've observed is nowhere near a "purest form" of anything. It changes with every period, conquest, pope, bull, ecumenical congress; it absorbs pre-existing rituals; and the wealth and bling of it has nothing in common with the life and words of Jesus. *That* would surely be "the purest form of Christianity": the life and words of Jesus.

If I read Jesus words correctly did he not say at the time of his second rebirth there will be wars and rumours of wars, if he had the ability to forsee than he must have seen what was going to be done in his name. I would never allow my name to be used with knowledge it could be abused. I specifically refer to child abuse at the hands of his followers, who gained power and access to children by using his name and preachings.

 

[SadJessu]

Where in the bible does it say anything about God taking a dim view of suicide?

'Thou shall not kill'.

 

[Worndown]

Others...
Probably tied to that covet part.

 

[SadJessu]

I find it odd that the church shifts its moral positions in accordance with scientific advancements, yet it also asserts an absolute pretention to be the revealed truth about human existence. If all feels like a lot of cognitive dissonance has to be accommodated.
If it got everything right 2,000 years ago through God's divine revelation, why the modifications to fit science on moral and cosmological questions? And if it didn't get everything right, this undermines the whole story about God and divine revelation through the church. This all seems to require quite a bit of doublethink.

I think you're confusing doctrine with dogma, the dogma of the Catholic Church has been revealed by God through the Bible and has not changed for 2,000 years. If it's in the Bible it can not be altered, it is absolute. Doctrine is not divinely mandated and is possible to change based on societal shifts, like vernacular mass and meatless Fridays for example. Suicide is considered a sin because of the commandment 'thou shall not kill', the intentional taking of human life is always a sin. The church, however did not have an official teaching from the Bible as to the result of that action, and has changed according to better societal understanding.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

I think you're confusing doctrine with dogma, the dogma of the Catholic Church has been revealed by God through the Bible and has not changed for 2,000 years. If it's in the Bible it can not be altered, it is absolute. Doctrine is not divinely mandated and is possible to change based on societal shifts, like vernacular mass and meatless Fridays for example. Suicide is considered a sin because of the commandment 'thou shall not kill', the intentional taking of human life is always a sin. The church, however did not have an official teaching from the Bible as to the result of that action, and has changed according to better societal understanding.

If that is so, why does the church now accept evolution, an old earth and same sex civil unions? All of these go against what is written in the bible (dogma).
Doctrine is divinely mandated insofar as Catholics believe that God chooses who the pope is and the pope dictates doctrine. He is considered to be God's representative and God works through him.
So another way of putting it is that doctrine can contradict dogma/bible, with doctrine shifting as society changes. This is where cognitive dissonance happens

The church, however did not have an official teaching from the Bible as to the result of that action, and has changed according to better societal understanding.

I thought the church always interpreted suicide in terms of violating the fifth commandment, so the suicide was denied a christian burial?

 

[violetsaturn]

Since you asked a theological question, I will provide a purely theological answer. This is not my opinion, but is the official view of the Catholic Church. (I am Catholic and used to teach at a Catholic school, so that is my background. Bring a married gay man should tell you how I feel about some Catholic doctrine in general...)

Your life does not belong to you. It belongs to God. The Catechism states:


So, taking a life is a mortal sin, and since it is the final act of the person who commits suicide, they are unable to repent, and therefore damned to Hell. HOWEVER...

The Catechism also says this about suicide:

In other words, a person who commits suicide likely was not in their right mind when committing the act. For something to be a mortal sin, the individual must be fully aware of the sinful nature of the act. Someone who is not of sound mind cannot fully comprehend the gravity of their action, and this cannot commit a mortal sin.

The final word in the Catechism on suicide is this:


These changes were made to the Catechism in 1992. Older generations would have been taught that suicide leads directly to Hell, and sometimes funerals were even denied for those who took their own lives. That is no longer the view of the Catholic Church.

I only joined like a day or so ago and I was completely fixed on the idea that suicide=hell. This thread and this post specifically has completely changed my mind and given me hope.

I don't think so. If you believe God is all-knowing, don't you think He knows your feelings and how much you're suffering? Would He really have no sympathy for you and have no understanding of your situation, to the point that he decides to punish you further in eternal hell?

Sometimes I do worry about it. I also believe in science, so I also feel scared that maybe I'll just slip into nothingness and that'll be it. But I like to believe that all of the praying I've done hasn't been for nothing. God hears you, too. And the state of your life isn't something He has any real power over, because it's others who choose to sin. It's just a consequence that other people's sins affect us negatively, which results in an unfulfilling life.

Like others have said also, if you believe that simply believing in Jesus' sacrifice is enough to send you to heaven, then that also works. But overall I think the God described in the Bible has more love and consideration than to send one of His children to hell for making a decision that is pretty much beyond anyone's control. He'll understand and accept you with open arms.

Your mention of "beyond anyone's control," is something I think about often. I believe that everyone's feelings (depression, anxiety, etc.) are valid regardless of their circumstances. So, for example, someone with depression who has never really had any trauma should not be taken any less seriously than someone who has had trauma(s). However, I can't really decide on if that also applies to suicide. Does God have a standard one must meet to still go to heaven after suicide? I don't think that suicide results in hell right off the bat bc of this thread, but I do wonder if you have to reach a certain point or whatever mentally that will make your suicide qualify as being "out of your control."

 

[SadJessu]

If that is so, why does the church now accept evolution, an old earth and same sex civil unions? All of these go against what is written in the bible (dogma).
Doctrine is divinely mandated insofar as Catholics believe that God chooses who the pope is and the pope dictates doctrine. He is considered to be God's representative and God works through him.
So another way of putting it is that doctrine can contradict dogma/bible, with doctrine shifting as society changes. This is where cognitive dissonance happens

I thought the church always interpreted suicide in terms of violating the fifth commandment, so the suicide was denied a christian burial?

Evolution doesn't contradict biblical teaching. The Bible it's self states that days are meaningless to God, therefore seven days could have been billions of years. Many of the Old Testament stories can be viewed as figurative, while the New Testament is the absolute word. As far as the pope is concerned, he doesn't not change doctrine and act as Christ's representative unless he does so from the Chair of Peter, no doctrine has changed since the Second Vatican Council. He is also not chosen by God, he is elected. This is no more or less God's will than any other elected official coming into office. He can give his opinion on things, but this is merely his opinion and not the church's as a whole, he is a man, not God.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

The Bible it's self states that days are meaningless to God

Do you have a biblical reference for this claim? Days might be meaningless to God because he is thought to be eternal, but the biblical narrative explicitly mentions that the world took seven days for creation. If the bible was written for humans, why would God create an ambiguity here? Either the world was created in seven days or it wasn't. If not, then the Bible is misleading and deceptive, which a supposedly perfect God wouldn't be.

Many of the Old Testament stories can be viewed as figurative, while the New Testament is the absolute word

This seems to be very convenient. Many Christians do not view the old testament as figurative, but as the actual word of God to be taken literally.
To view some stories and teachings as figurative and others as not is arbitrary and disingenuous. Who gets to decide what is figurative and what is not? If it's the pope, it's only insfar as he is considered to be God's representative on earth and as such is infallible.

Evolution doesn't contradict biblical teaching.

It does contradict it in my opinion. Genesis explicitly states:

"Then God commanded, "Let the water be filled with many kinds of living beings, and let the air be filled with birds." 21 So God created the great sea monsters, all kinds of creatures that live in the water, and all kinds of birds. And God was pleased with what he saw. 22 He blessed them all and told the creatures that live in the water to reproduce and to fill the sea, and he told the birds to increase in number. 23 Evening passed and morning came—that was the fifth day.

24 Then God commanded, "Let the earth produce all kinds of animal life: domestic and wild, large and small"—and it was done. 25 So God made them all, and he was pleased with what he saw."

"Then God said, "And now we will make human beings; they will be like us and resemble us. They will have power over the fish, the birds, and all animals, domestic and wild, large and small."

How is this compatible with the modern theory of evolution by natural selection and common descent? To think that it is compatible requires a lot of cognitive dissonance and textual/exegetical distortions.

He is also not chosen by God, he is elected

The holy spirit (part of the trinity) is thought to work through the cardinals (who also somehow conveniently retain free will) in choosing the pope, which is indicated by the fumata, which is the burning of ballots cast, resulting either in black smoke (failed election) or white smoke (successful election of a new pope).

He can give his opinion on things, but this is merely his opinion and not the church's as a whole, he is a man, not God.

The pope's 'opinion' becomes de facto church doctrine, insofar as papal infallibility is concerned. Of course he is not a dictator, and bishops, priests and clergy are free to believe what they want within the ideological limits of their faith and official positions, but his views are considered infallible insofar as catholics think he has been elected by God and is considered his representative on earth. Papal infallibility is a foundation of Catholic dogma.

The amount of doublethink, cognitive dissonance and cognitive bias that goes on in Catholicism (and most other religions to be fair) is considerable imo, but almost by definition those guilty of it are not really aware of it. The mind is a very effective device when it comes to compartmentalizing, disconnecting and distorting incompatible beliefs, filing inconvenient facts away from conscious awareness or even denying their status as facts by selectively utilizing epistemological skepticism etc.

 

[SadJessu]

Do you have a biblical reference for this claim? Days might be meaningless to God because he is thought to be eternal, but the biblical narrative explicitly mentions that the world took seven days for creation. If the bible was written for humans, why would God create an ambiguity here? Either the world was created in seven days or it wasn't. If not, then the Bible is misleading and deceptive, which a supposedly perfect God wouldn't be.

This seems to be very convenient. Many Christians do not view the old testament as figurative, but as the actual word of God to be taken literally.
To view some stories and teachings as figurative and others as not is arbitrary and disingenuous. Who gets to decide what is figurative and what is not? If it's the pope, it's only insfar as he is considered to be God's representative on earth and as such is infallible.

It does contradict it in my opinion. Genesis explicitly states:

"Then God commanded, "Let the water be filled with many kinds of living beings, and let the air be filled with birds." 21 So God created the great sea monsters, all kinds of creatures that live in the water, and all kinds of birds. And God was pleased with what he saw. 22 He blessed them all and told the creatures that live in the water to reproduce and to fill the sea, and he told the birds to increase in number. 23 Evening passed and morning came—that was the fifth day.

24 Then God commanded, "Let the earth produce all kinds of animal life: domestic and wild, large and small"—and it was done. 25 So God made them all, and he was pleased with what he saw."

"Then God said, "And now we will make human beings; they will be like us and resemble us. They will have power over the fish, the birds, and all animals, domestic and wild, large and small."

How is this compatible with the modern theory of evolution by natural selection and common descent? To think that it is compatible requires a lot of cognitive dissonance and textual/exegetical distortions.

The holy spirit (part of the trinity) is thought to work through the cardinals (who also somehow conveniently retain free will) in choosing the pope, which is indicated by the fumata, which is the burning of ballots cast, resulting either in black smoke (failed election) or white smoke (successful election of a new pope).

The pope's 'opinion' becomes de facto church doctrine, insofar as papal infallibility is concerned. Of course he is not a dictator, and bishops, priests and clergy are free to believe what they want within the ideological limits of their faith and official positions, but his views are considered infallible insofar as catholics think he has been elected by God and is considered his representative on earth. Papal infallibility is a foundation of Catholic dogma.

The amount of doublethink, cognitive dissonance and cognitive bias that goes on in Catholicism (and most other religions to be fair) is considerable imo, but almost by definition those guilty of it are not really aware of it. The mind is a very effective device when it comes to compartmentalizing, disconnecting and distorting incompatible beliefs, filing inconvenient facts away from conscious awareness or even denying their status as facts by selectively utilizing epistemological skepticism etc.

Honestly I'm not here to argue in novel length about religion. I have mine and people are more than welcome to have theirs, I don't care. So this will be my last reply on the matter, frankly. I just don't have the energy.

2 Peter chapter 3 verses 8-9 state "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." Which is pretty explicit. The Bible was compiled by people who doubtfully had the capacity to understand evolution, though the series of events from the Big Bang forward nearly mirror the creation story over the scope of millions of years, from the first light to eventual man. It's not that hard to understand if you know the timeline of life on earth. Writing the Bible in a simplified fashion isn't deceptive, it's presenting God's plan to people who aren't yet capable of understanding things we still don't fully understand. It would be more deceptive if God to put a false fossil record in the Earth than to simplify a creation story. Old Testament teachings are not figurative at all, though the New Testament has this to say in 2 Timothy 3 verses 14-17: "All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." Make of that what you will. Christ himself rebuked many previous teachings. Which is why it is no longer required to follow Jewish dietary laws or circumcise.

Does not the Holy Spirit work though men who also retain their free will? God does not chose the pope.Here's an article from a Catholic perspective for you regarding that matter. https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/does-god-pick-the-pope

And more information on the pope's actual authority over doctrine: https://www.catholic.com/tract/papal-infallibility

Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinions, none is more valuable than another. I'm becoming more of a nihilist anyhow.