Discussion (Christians only!!) if a Christian commits suicide, do they end up in hell?

[Meditation guide]

I was raised Christian, and still consider myself that way. I still feel conflicted about this, so I'm interested to see other opinions.

I thought the whole point of Christ dying on the cross was to keep Christians out of hell?

 

[Deleted member 18655]

That's what my bus ticket says. Well deserved and not to be contested by me or probably anyone who knows me.

 

[Marktheghost]

The bible says nothing about people who kill themselves going to Hell.

 

[Hypergang2018]

Not going to sugarcoat it. Suicide is a mortal sin in the Bible.

However recently the pope stated that suicide is no longer a sin and neither is being gay, so make of that what you will.

 

[chewgu]

I was raised as a Christian, but started following Jesus when I didn't knew a way out of my miserable life.

I want to give an answer to the question based on the Bible (Or my understanding of it) and what people at my Church said to me. They too, used the word to build their opinions (but no guarantee).

When I first started following Jesus, I got rid of my depression (or he did). I had a full year of happiness. But my mental health got worse again and I couldn't follow anymore (pray, read Bible,..), because I felt like I didn't do anything right.
I have two people in my Church which I can talk to, and they said to me when you believe in god and Jesus as the savior, you will be saved and nothing can change that anymore. No sin in the world can bring you into hell anymore.

Joh 10:28 EasyEnglish I cause them to live always. They will never die. Nobody can ever take them away from me.
Joh 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all things. Nobody can ever take my sheep out of my Father's hand.

Here does the Bible describe believers. And no one can rip you out of the hand of Jesus. If you are really his child, you don't have to be afraid of dying of suicide.

My "Mentor" from my Church said that to me: "Jesus would likely be sad when you kill yourself, because he wanted you to be happy. You need to have faith in god, then you may feel happy". I think that could be true. My first year as a Christian is the proof for me. I had faith and was not afraid of anything. The peace I felt was better as every drug you could take. Now I feel unable to have faith, because I'm believing my thoughts more than the Bible I think.

But I honestly doubt if I'm a real child of his. That's the reason I'm still frightened. Still hope I am saved.

Yeah... that's my point of view on that topic.
I hope you find the answers you need :)

 

[BrokenHopes]

I don't know if you would regard me as a Christian. I have been deconstructing the last years and am now somewhere between a progressive Christian and an agnostic. I still like Jesus though.

I do not believe in hell anymore. So according to me a person committing suicide Christian or not will not go to hell.
If a human being would not wish eternal torment on their worst enemy how can God then do that? He would be worse than humans. God should be held to higher a standard than a human being. Hell cannot exist. If it does God is not love.

 

[Jean Améry]

Why would christians know? Did they ever die and come back to report? Everything that anyone ever said about this topic is hearsay and opinion, not fact.

That being said a legalistic approach would be to look at the most important sources of christianity and find out what they say about the topic. To my knowledge the bible doesn't forbid suicide (neither in the old, nor in the new testament) and the suicides that are mentioned in that text aren't condemned. Judas for example isn't reprimanded for killing himself but for betraying Jezus Christ. If memory serves the gospels say something along the line of 'he went and hanged himself'. Very matter of factly. Nowhere does it say 'he committed the ultimate sin by killing himself'.

Martyrdom can be regarded as a form of suicide and many christians in the early period were all too eager to die sooner than later in order to get to heaven quickly.

I've done some research into this topic and the main reason why the church seemed to have instated a ban on suicide is because of the teachings of Augustine of Hippo who basically twisted the bible in order to make it say what he thought it should say: that suicide is a form of murder and thus prohibited by the commandment 'thou shalt not kill' (although I read it says in Hebrew: 'thou shalt not murder' which is an entirely different thing altogether).

The philosopher David Hume wrote an excellent rebuttal to Augustine's (in my view faulty) reasoning, also on purely theological grounds among social and individual ones: https://resources.saylor.org/wwwresources/archived/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/PHIL201-3.3.1.pdf.

Other sources including Augustine's text (among many others, christian and non-christian alike) can be found here: https://ethicsofsuicide.lib.utah.edu/.

I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other, merely to encourage you to do your own research and think critically about this issue. Within and/or without a religious framework.

Suicide is a mortal sin in the Bible.

No it's not. Where does it say that? If you're going to reply with 'thou shalt not kill' see my post above. By that logic any form of killing including of animals to eat, in war, in self-defense is a mortal sin.

 

[Spitfire]

! ATTENTION !

I know my question can bring arguments and fighting. If you aren't Christian who would like to discuss their Views or seek answers, then this thread isn't for you to comment. Please keep my thread a discussion thread than a arguement. I want to discuss others on this topic and not have it closed, please be respectful to one another and kind

After my failed attempt with SN, I'm gonna try again soon, but being a Christian, I have thoughts of where I'll end up. It haunts me. But the Bible doesn't give out a clear answer or does anyone have one. I don't know where I'll end up. I have points on why a Christian shouldn't end up in hell but then I have point on why they should. I'm confused and seek out others views.

what do you think? Where would you end up if you are christian and took your life.

I'm a Christian and I tend to go by what the Bible says. The Bible doesn't teach the idea of hell, it teaches eternal punishment. Non existence is a form of eternal punishment since it's forever. Here are some verses that reveal the truth:

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note that life is a gift, not a punishment. If you were to be tortured in hell, you would have to be ALIVE to feel it.

Romans 6:7 "For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.
Here the Bible is in no way vague about the reality of death. Once you die you're acquitted from all your sin. What would be the purpose of more punishment?

Ecclesiastes 9:5 - The living at least know they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, nor are they remembered.
This says the dead know nothing. It's a common message in the Bible about dead people having no awareness. Remember how we say "to know suffering?" how can you be tormented if you don't even know it?

Think about the resurrection promise. What would the purpose of resurrection be if people immediately went to heaven or hell upon death? They would already have received their due, right? It's another clue that being dead is literally nothingness from which you must be brought back.

Revelation talks about a lake of fire, but death is thrown in the lake to be tormented forever. Death is a concept or event, not a person that can feel pain. This shows that the lake is a symbol of eternal destruction.

Hell is a human concept created to instill fear and make people obey the church. You don't need to fear this lie. Hope this helps.

I believe it says, 'Gods will is to save all of mankind and that his will shall be done'?

L. Ray Smith, 'Lake of Fire' series. This and all of his emails are free to read online. He discussed about the lake of fire, and about hell. He talked about it from the oldest ancient Hebrew scriptures, rather than from the modern day version of the bible though. It would probably take a long time to read through all of it. I thought it was interesting.

 

[bov]

All men are good, we are the same, we all love, we all cry, we all laugh, we all fight, and kill, and steal if needed. The pain is the thing that makes u to choose the others to suffer instead of urself. Is not ur fault, its not even unfair to kill to defend ur family, or yourself (if u want to live...joke) or a friend, or an unknown person who needs ur help.
if u punch someone, he may doesnt fall and nothing happends, or he may fall and hits with the head to the ground and die. U did the same, just one punch, destiny is who decided if he should live or die. From the other perspective, if there´s destiny, and in my opinion there´s, no1 is guilty from anything.

Is a Brain damaged serial killer responsible from his acts? Is a wolf responsible to guilty to kill a lamb to eat?

My friend, read the post i have just made, and forget Christianism...Love

"Christianism"

 

[TheParson]

! ATTENTION !

I know my question can bring arguments and fighting. If you aren't Christian who would like to discuss their Views or seek answers, then this thread isn't for you to comment. Please keep my thread a discussion thread than a arguement. I want to discuss others on this topic and not have it closed, please be respectful to one another and kind

After my failed attempt with SN, I'm gonna try again soon, but being a Christian, I have thoughts of where I'll end up. It haunts me. But the Bible doesn't give out a clear answer or does anyone have one. I don't know where I'll end up. I have points on why a Christian shouldn't end up in hell but then I have point on why they should. I'm confused and seek out others views.

what do you think? Where would you end up if you are christian and took your life.

Hello. My name is David. I'm a pastor of an evangelical church in the midwest, USA. Yes, really. If anyone is wondering why I am on SS, the answer is because I have suffered severe depression and suicidal thoughts since I was 13, and it brings me comfort to read others talk openly about that which I don't feel open to share in my regular life. I don't know if I will ever CTB, but I deal with the urge to every single day. I've been lurking on this website for a long time, but I made an account to answer your question as best as I can. Keep in mind, I'm speaking from my understanding of an evangelical, protestant tradition. That being said, I will do my best to base my answer in scripture.

The first thing I want to point out biblically is that it's not unheard of for Christians to have suicidal thoughts and impulses. I know this isn't the question you asked, but I feel it's one I would like to address. People are very often ignorant of how many times servants of God in the Bible express suicidal thoughts and desires. The Apostle Paul said in 1 Cor 1:8, "For we do not want you to be unaware, brothers, of the affliction we experienced in Asia. For we were so utterly burdened beyond our strength that we despaired of life itself." After Jonah's ordeal with the fish, and after what must have been an exhausting preaching duty to the people of Ninevah, he sulked under a tree. When God asked him whether he had any right to be angry, he said, "Yes, I do well to be angry, angry enough to die." (Jon 4:9) After a great spiritual victory over the prophets of Baal, and great personal persecution at the hands of Queen Jezebel, Elijah wandered out into the wilderness and "prayed that he might die". He said, "I have had enough, LORD...Take my life; I am no better than my ancestors." After Job suffered the immense loss of his family and pretty much all his earthly comforts, he said, "Why did I not die at birth, come out from the womb and expire?" Further he says, "Why is light given to him who is in misery, and life to the bitter in soul, who long for death, but it comes not, and dig for it more than hidden treasures, who rejoice exceedingly and are glad when they find the grave?" (Job 3:11; 20-22). I say all this because many Christians so often feel alienated, or strange for claiming to have such hope in the gospel of Jesus Christ, yet feel at the same time a suicidal level of despair. Yet, I really would like you to see that many of God's servants felt this way at one time or another, whether it was from persecution, exhaustion, or the circumstances of life not going their way. As I cope with my own suicidal ideation, I feel comfort in knowing that I am in a long line of people who served God yet often did not feel the strength to find joy in my day to day life.

Now, on to your actual question. The first thing we must establish is - what sends a person to Hell? The short answer is - sin. This is normally where you might expect a Christian minister to start going off on all sorts of different behaviors. However, all I need to do is make two simple points. a) all sin, any sin, is accountable to God and is worthy of divine punishment. Rom 6:23 makes it clear that the "wages of sin is death". Death, in this context, is being contrasted with "eternal life" (Rom 6:22), so it is clear that the "death" Paul speaks of is more than physical death, but spiritual death as well. That spiritual death is eternal, conscious separation from God, or "eternal punishment" as Jesus puts it (Matt 25:46). b) every human being is a sinner. The entire argument of the book of Romans is structured in such a way as to make the point that all humanity is guilty and under the same condemnation. This is why Paul says "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Rom 3:23). Now, why am I making this point? I make this point because, in a sense, asking "will suicide send me to hell?" is sort of a moot question. Is assumes that there are categories of sin that are worse than the others. As if one sort of sin is passable but another is not. According to James, "Whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it." (Jas 2:10) So, if someone who killed themselves did wind up in hell, it would hardly be just for the one act of self-murder. It would be for that and many other countless transgressions in their lifetime. The same is true for me and all men and women who live on the earth.

So, the next question is - what ensures that a person will see Heaven? According to scripture, all mankind are sinners who are, by nature, "children of wrath" (Eph 2:3). So, any idea that we could earn it ourselves through our good behavior or moral law-keeping is out. That ship already sailed. The answer, therefore, is that rather than trying to earn it ourselves, we would cast 100% of our hope for salvation not on us, but on another. After making the point that all mankind is condemned, Paul says, " But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith." (Rom 3:21-24) Salvation comes only to those who have gotten off the merry-go-round of trying to please God with obedience and instead confess their chronic disobedience and ask for mercy and forgiveness on behalf of Jesus Christ. Christ was put forth as a "propitiation", that is, a satisfactory sacrifice. He died, and in his death, he took all the punishment that was due to you and me for our sins. This is so that God can be both "just" in the sense that he punishes sins and does not let them slide, but also the one who "justifies" or makes sinners right with himself (Rom 3:26). This is why Revelation pictures those who enter Heaven as having their names written in a great "book of life". A book that contains the names not of the perfectly moral or exceptionally obedient, but those who have believed on the sacrifice of the Son of God (Rev 20:15; Jn 3:16).

So, what does this have to do with suicide? The question - "will I go to hell if I commit suicide" implies a belief that suicide, as an act, is unforgivable. I know some Christian traditions teach that. But if the gospel is a gospel of grace, not of works, and salvation is given by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, then how could a salvation that is received by grace be lost by works? Even a work as controversial as suicide? I don't believe it can. That which is given by God as a gift, and received as a gift by faith, cannot be lost by works. Also, if I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay the penalty of all my sins - past and present - then if I died of suicide, then what sin would I be punished for? My debt was wiped clean, my sin separated as far from me as the east is from the west. Rom 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Now, there are plenty of biblical reasons NOT to commit suicide: the knowledge that God can and does turn all circumstances for our good and his glory (Rom 8:28), the fact that we are not our own as we have been bought back from death, sin, and Satan (1 Cor 6:20), the fact that our bodies are temples of the indwelling Holy Spirit (1 Cor 6:19), the fact that God is the one who has the right to number our days (Ps 139:16), and the great commission we have been given to carry his gospel to the world (Matt 28:16-20). Yet, even with these facts, there is no denying the fact that plenty of Christians, whether it be in that place of despair, or in mental anguish, or who are not in their right mind, have taken their own lives. We have to reckon with that. I think there is plenty of grace in the gospel of Jesus Christ for the weakness of the flesh. If you know that Christ is your Savior, if you have trusted in his shed blood and his resurrection from the dead and repented of your sins, then the scriptures promise you that you will be saved (Rom 10:9). Whatever decision you make, you would do well to spend time in prayer and consult the Lord and spend time in his word. As for me, I live every day knowing that Christ suffered for my sake so that I could inherit salvation. I choose every day to suffer for him and his gospel so others can know the same.

If you, or anyone else, have questions I can help with, feel free to ask. I hope this post has caused no offense, and has brought at least some measure of clarity, and perhaps comfort. Blessings to you.

 

[Jean Améry]

Hello. My name is David.

Hello David, welcome to SS and thank you for your contribution. I'm sure it'll be of great interest to the OP and anyone else interested in the christian point of view. I don't see how you could have possibly caused offense to anyone. Your answer is quite nuanced and thoughtful and not at all anti-suicide.

I'm not a christian but I do find your exposé interesting and have a few questions which I'll post later as I'm tired and quite frankly ill (good chance it is covid but I won't know until thursday) so I'd better get some sleep soon.

For now suffice to say I'm sorry you have been suffering so grievously and hope you will find a way to cope with it. We're all human-beings and our suffering is what unites us here, that and knowing what it feels like to want to end it.

Too bad you feel like you can't talk about these things with people you know personally. I'm sure many if not all of us feel that way. Society at large is not very open to neutral discussion of suicide and very much opposes it which ironically is probably a major reason why suicide rates the world over are so high.

 

[Meditation guide]

God shows a bit more grace and mercy than many of us may think.

I was wondering why God doesn't show much grace and mercy in this life and we have to wait until we are dead to receive it.
Maybe @TheParson knows?

 

[TheParson]

Hello David, welcome to SS and thank you for your contribution. I'm sure it'll be of great interest to the OP and anyone else interested in the christian point of view. I don't see how you could have possibly caused offense to anyone. Your answer is quite nuanced and thoughtful and not at all anti-suicide.

I'm not a christian but I do find your exposé interesting and have a few questions which I'll post later as I'm tired and quite frankly ill (good chance it is covid but I won't know until thursday) so I'd better get some sleep soon.

For now suffice to say I'm sorry you have been suffering so grievously and hope you will find a way to cope with it. We're all human-beings and our suffering is what unites us here, that and knowing what it feels like to want to end it.

Too bad you feel like you can't talk about these things with people you know personally. I'm sure many if not all of us feel that way. Society at large is not very open to neutral discussion of suicide and very much opposes it which ironically is probably a major reason why suicide rates the world over are so high.

Thank you for that warm welcome. I appreciate it. I would be happy to answer any questions you like.

I was wondering why God doesn't show much grace and mercy in this life and we have to wait until we are dead to receive it.
Maybe @TheParson knows?

Hi, @Meditation guide! I would be happy to try and answer this question. All my answers will be from the perspective of a protestant evangelical but backed up with scripture.

I'm very sorry that you feel you have not experienced much of God's grace and mercy. I think it would help to define my terms before I answer your question. In my understanding, mercy is not receiving punishment or consequences that justly belong to us. James 2:13 says, "For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy." We see there that mercy is contrasted with judgment, and mercy is a relief from judgment. I understand grace to be when we receive as a blessing that which we do not deserve. Ephesians 2:8-9 says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Grace is something a person receives that is not merited by anything they do, and it is by definition a gift.

I would argue that no matter how difficult our current circumstances are, we are all recipients of countless acts of mercy and grace every single day. Let's start with mercy. From the Bible's perspective, every human being has rebelled against a God who is perfectly holy in his character (Ps 7:11). This warrants divine justice, and there is no reason at all for that justice to be delayed. If we all got what we deserve, then each of us would die and suffer the wrath of God this very moment. Yet, we live...why is this? Because God is merciful and patient, not giving us what we deserve. Consider Adam and Eve. God told them that the day they ate of the forbidden fruit they would "surely die" (Gen 2:17). Adam and Eve transgressed that boundary, and not only did they not die that day, God clothed them in their nakedness (Gen 3:21) and made them a promise concerning the future, that the offspring of Eve would destroy the one who tempted them and brought this curse of sin upon them (Gen 3:15). That's mercy. Every day we live in God's world and don't suffer the just punishment we deserve for violating his law and living in open rebellion is an act of mercy.

Now let's talk about grace. Theologians have recognized several categories of grace. The first is common grace. This is the grace that God shows every living creature on the earth without distinction. If none of us deserve anything but his wrath, then when we really stop and think about it, it really causes awe to think of all the things we enjoy that are within the scope of God's power that he gives freely, even to creatures that so often disobey and rebel against him. Psalm 145:9 says, "The LORD is good to all, and his mercy is over all that he has made." Examples of this would be sunshine and rain for crops, "For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matt 5:45). This is, of course, a wide example, but there are numerable personal examples each of us could give of good things in our lives that are there because of his providence, "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father..." (Jas 1:17). There is also redemptive, or saving grace. If every human has sinned against God, then none of us have a right to be forgiven. Yet, even though God is under no obligation to forgive, because of his great love he makes forgiveness an opportunity for us through the cross of Jesus Christ. Romans 5:8 says, "But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." and of course most famously, John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Yet, even though these answers are theological and biblical, I know that most people ask these sorts of questions with a deep hurt inside them. They want to know why, if God is so good and loving, have they been allowed to suffer so much - physically, mentally, emotionally, etc. Perhaps he has shown grace in a certain way, but in their view, he has not shown grace in the way they would most like him to show it. He allowed something to happen he could have prevented, or he prevented something he could have allowed. I have a dear friend of mine who is suffering from stage 4 bone cancer. She is only 35 and will likely not survive to age 40. She loves the Lord, she is passionate about her relationship with Jesus, but she too has wrestled with God why he would allow her to suffer so much and cut her life short at such a young age. It's a common emotion. If you like I can do into a deep dive into how the world is broken by sin and that Jesus promised that in this life we would suffer trials and tribulation (Jn 16:33). For now, let me cut to the heart of the matter. The comfort a Christian experiences, the "grace" that brings us peace, is not our circumstances. It's the living relationship we have with our God. God is not a being who makes us alright by making everything in our lives all right. In order to experience any sort of peace, or joy, we need to be in a relationship with him. Peter tells us to "Cast all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you." (1 Pt 5:7). Paul says, "do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. " (Phil 4:6-7) Jesus himself said, "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." (Matt 11:28-29) You can see, there is mercy, grace, peace, and joy available, but its not something God gives through circumstances, but in a relationship.

I'll finish by applying these to myself as an example. I suffer from suicidal ideation and depression every day. That's my cross to bear in this broken world. I have mercy because even though I am a sinner at heart, God has been exceedingly kind to me. I have many good things in my life: my wife, my friends, my church, my health, good days, and even the bad days I learn from - these are common graces. When I was a young man, God grabbed hold of my heart and showed me my need for a savior - that's redemptive grace. And when I have a dark moment, or a dark day, or a dark week, or month, or year, what ultimately causes me to hold on is my living relationship with Jesus Christ. He is more than doctrine, more than dogma. He is the anchor for my soul in the storms of mental unrest and the waves of life's turmoil.

I don't know if any of that answers your question, but I tried! Let me know if I can do anything more. Blessings.

 

[TheParson]

So you simply overlook your own suffering and be glad you have a relationship with God. And don't ask why if you have this relationship he lets you suffer. And He could make it much worse if He (I guess the Christian God is a he) really wanted to give us what we deserve. Thank you for that answer. I will continue to ponder it.

I would not say I "overlook" my own suffering, as in I ignore it or handwave it away. I would say I understand my suffering in light of the theological realities of the world we live in. Nowhere in the Bible was a promised a perfect, painless life. No one is guaranteed from birth perfect mental health, or physical health, or a long and prosperous life. The only promises that have been made for perfect peace are yet to come in heaven. I understand that I don't deserve the blessings I have, which magnifies my sense of thankfulness and gratitude. I also trust that God knows more than I do, and his word has assured me that whatever I suffer, I do not suffer it in vain, as he is bringing good from it (Rom 8:28). Part of God's grace and mercy is not just his ability to prevent pain, but to use pain to bring forth my good, the good of others, and the knowledge of his goodness and glory to those who see his work in me.

God sometimes seems to dish out "mercy" the most to those who deserve it the least and not give it to those who are the most innocent. Babies and little children who suffer for example, is he being merciful to them?

In one sense that's a matter of perspective. I've met people who suffer unbelievable hardships, loss, and bereavements who are able to see the good in what has happened and are able to recognize the blessings they have been afforded. I have met people who are unbelievably privileged and yet are whiney, spoiled, and entitled. Counting your blessings giving praise to God is more than just an assessment of good vs bad or painful vs pleasurable. In essence, it's a submission of our lives to his will and recognizing that even that which seems bad can be, and is, used for good. As Job famously said, "Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?" (Job 2:10)

As for the bigger question - why some receive privilege and others poverty, why some are born healthy and others sick, why some will live long and others will die young - truthfully, I have no idea. God is not God if there is not mystery to the way he orders his affairs. If God is a being I can fully comprehend, then he ceases to be God. The good news is that not only has God told us this is so - "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the Lord. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isa 55:8-9) - but we also have the opportunity to relate to the numerous times in the Bible humans have asked God those very questions. Jeremiah asked, "Why does the way of the wicked prosper, why do all who are treacherous thrive?"(Jer 12:1) God's answer to these sorts of questions is usually something along the line of - "I know, you don't. I'm God, you're not. Trust me, I love you." This is why I said peace in the Christian life comes not from answers to all the questions, but a living relationship with the one who is trustworthy and gracious.

 

[Jumper Geo]

No I certainly don't think we are condemned on Earth maybe we have already been condemned I think if you speak to most people they will say there life is hell, I have been watching Unsolved Mystery's and they have a lot of ghost sightings from Police, Priests, family and friends seeing these ghosts and they send in an expert who has gadgets and says he won't say it's a ghost but there is a lot of energy in certain rooms.

Maybe if we have been condemned we live a painful shitty life and remain here in spirit form, which would be more punishment I think I could handle watching people in the pubs having a few cold pints of Stella lager on a hot day, mind you the alternative is God of HELL Fire, lol but no I don't believe in Hell we have suffered enough and if that is the case you just ask for forgiveness and you will be released.

Cheers

Geo

 

[Meditation guide]

No I certainly don't think we are condemned on Earth maybe we have already been condemned I think if you speak to most people they will say there life is hell, I have been watching Unsolved Mystery's and they have a lot of ghost sightings from Police, Priests, family and friends seeing these ghosts and they send in an expert who has gadgets and says he won't say it's a ghost but there is a lot of energy in certain rooms.

Maybe if we have been condemned we live a painful shitty life and remain here in spirit form, which would be more punishment I think I could handle watching people in the pubs having a few cold pints of Stella lager on a hot day, mind you the alternative is God of HELL Fire, lol but no I don't believe in Hell we have suffered enough and if that is the case you just ask for forgiveness and you will be released.

Cheers

Geo

It is clear to me we are in one of the levels of hell right now. I'm dead serious.

 

[Jumper Geo]

One things for sure when I die if there is a tunnel or white light I'm heading towards it, you think it's bad here now wait until your a ghost and just watch people having fun, mind you I could float over to Amsterdam,

I hope you enjoyed the song God of Hell Fire, love that song, we won't, but your know jumpergeo is in HELL as I will be singing it to wind up the Devil,

Cheers

Geo

 

[Hopeindeath!]

I think @TheParson answered the question perfectly.

 

[Jean Améry]

@TheParson Allright, I'll take you up on your offer. To save time I'll quote you if you don't mind.

Also, if I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay the penalty of all my sins - past and present - then if I died of suicide, then what sin would I be punished for? My debt was wiped clean, my sin separated as far from me as the east is from the west. Rom 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

So because Christ died on the cross a christian cannot possibly do wrong in the eyes of God ever? Isn't that basically a license to murder, rape, plunder etcetera? Logically your statement would imply that the biblical commandments no longer apply or at least no longer have any ill effects on those who break them. At least as long as they're christians.

Obviously I do not regard suicide as a crime or any sort of moral transgression nor do I believe the bible does either for the reasons explained in my previous post.

From the Bible's perspective, every human being has rebelled against a God who is perfectly holy in his character (Ps 7:11).

I know this is based on the idea of original sin by Adam and Eve. What I fail to understand is how a divine being that is supposedly all-good can possibly condemn the whole of humanity based on the sins of two people. It is said the lord works in mysterious ways but this kind of collective retribution runs counter to all modern notions of justice. It was however very common in the time the bible was written which might explain a lot.

Perhaps he has shown grace in a certain way, but in their view, he has not shown grace in the way they would most like him to show it.

That is a bit glib, is it not? What 'grace' is there for a child that is starving or an innocent man being tortured to death? This reminds me of the theodicee: if God is all-good, all-knowing and all-powerful why does He allow supreme injustice and tremendous suffering? Not only the kind humans do to each-other (the usual answer is 'free will' which is a highly problematic concept in itself) but what about diseases or natural disasters which are clearly beyond the will of man?

Either God is not all-good or he isn't all-powerful or else he would have prevented the Shoa/Holocaust and every serious injustice and suffering. Or He simply does not care about humanity at all.

In one sense that's a matter of perspective.

Isn't everything you wrote a matter of perspective? With all due respect but I find it very hard to see any logic in this: it all seems like an honest but convoluted attempt by an obviously intelligent and caring man to explain the unexplainable and justify that which is unjustifiable.

Not to mention the bible contains so many diverse texts and so many perspectives I'm sure it'd be possible to take almost any point of view and find verses that support that kind of view or at least can be interpreted that way. As Shakespeare put it: "Even the devil can cite Scripture for his purpose".

There is a very simple and highly likely answer to the problems and conondrums you discuss here: God simply doesn't exist and the bible is just a work of men trying to make sense of the world in an era where science did not exist and therefore it seemed reasonable to assume a supernatural intelligence as the source of the world as it is.

That coupled with the projection of unfulfilled needs and wants (including the need to make sense of senseless suffering and injustice not to mention death which is what men, like all living beings, are said to fear most) unto that supernatural intelligence pretty much explains the whole concept of theistic religion. God is obviously a father-figure upon whom believers, just like little children look up to their fathers and think they can do everything, project their hardships and hopes for easing of their suffering. I'm sure up to a point it actually helps (you seem to be a case in point) but from my perspective this is all just a placebo, i.e. a non-solution that never-the-less has some positive effects on those who think the medicine (in this case figuratively) is real and effective.

Now, there are plenty of biblical reasons NOT to commit suicide: the knowledge that God can and does turn all circumstances for our good and his glory (Rom 8:28), the fact that we are not our own as we have been bought back from death, sin, and Satan (1 Cor 6:20), the fact that our bodies are temples of the indwelling Holy Spirit (1 Cor 6:19), the fact that God is the one who has the right to number our days (Ps 139:16), and the great commission we have been given to carry his gospel to the world (Matt 28:16-20).

Obviously God does not turn 'all circumstances to good', at least not on this earth, or there simply wouldn't be evil and misery to the degree that certain problems are simply unsolvable. Isn't this a simple denial of reality for emotional reasons?

If we are not 'our own' as you say free will is an illusion as this implies autonomy.

As to the temple analogy: if a temple is so damaged it threatens to collapse and it cannot possibly be saved would it not make sense to simply tear it down and build a new one? What is procreation other than, in your metaphor, building more temples for the Holy Spirit? Plus if men's bodies are temples they sure are extremely fragile and temporary.

It is strange that God numbered our days yet he has not instated a clear commandment against suicide. Plus how is this concept to be reconciled with free will as it pertains to suicide? If we decide to commit suicide one day couldn't we simply interpret it as a sign of God that it is allright to do so? Divine inspiration if you will.

This has all been interesting but it hasn't changed my perspective and conviction as an atheist. If God wants me to believe in him He'll have to convince me of His existence (the caps are a sign of courtesy towards you) and enlighten me as to the whole problem of evil/divine grace issue as I can find neither in the bible nor in any theological reasoning (including yours) any rational, clear and logical explanation that ties in with the facts. 'Believe it is true and it will become true' is not what I call an epistemological standard at all. In fact to me it means sacrificing one's reason and intellectual powers which are ironically said to be given by God.

 

[everydayiloveyou]

I don't think so. If you believe God is all-knowing, don't you think He knows your feelings and how much you're suffering? Would He really have no sympathy for you and have no understanding of your situation, to the point that he decides to punish you further in eternal hell?

Sometimes I do worry about it. I also believe in science, so I also feel scared that maybe I'll just slip into nothingness and that'll be it. But I like to believe that all of the praying I've done hasn't been for nothing. God hears you, too. And the state of your life isn't something He has any real power over, because it's others who choose to sin. It's just a consequence that other people's sins affect us negatively, which results in an unfulfilling life.

Like others have said also, if you believe that simply believing in Jesus' sacrifice is enough to send you to heaven, then that also works. But overall I think the God described in the Bible has more love and consideration than to send one of His children to hell for making a decision that is pretty much beyond anyone's control. He'll understand and accept you with open arms.

 

[Jean Améry]

so I also feel scared that maybe I'll just slip into nothingness and that'll be it.

I don't see why that should scare you. It's not nothingness as in 'an endless black void' (like in space) but a complete and utter lack of consciousness. You seem to presuppose you'll be able to observe this nothingness which seems extremely unlikely as it would imply your consciousness somehow survived your physical death (i.e. the destruction of the brain).

How can something be bad when (and aslong) you're completely unaware of it?

 

[SadJessu]

Hello. My name is David. I'm a pastor of an evangelical church in the midwest, USA. Yes, really. If anyone is wondering why I am on SS, the answer is because I have suffered severe depression and suicidal thoughts since I was 13, and it brings me comfort to read others talk openly about that which I don't feel open to share in my regular life. I don't know if I will ever CTB, but I deal with the urge to every single day. I've been lurking on this website for a long time, but I made an account to answer your question as best as I can. Keep in mind, I'm speaking from my understanding of an evangelical, protestant tradition. That being said, I will do my best to base my answer in scripture.

The first thing I want to point out biblically is that it's not unheard of for Christians to have suicidal thoughts and impulses. I know this isn't the question you asked, but I feel it's one I would like to address. People are very often ignorant of how many times servants of God in the Bible express suicidal thoughts and desires. The Apostle Paul said in 1 Cor 1:8, "For we do not want you to be unaware, brothers, of the affliction we experienced in Asia. For we were so utterly burdened beyond our strength that we despaired of life itself." After Jonah's ordeal with the fish, and after what must have been an exhausting preaching duty to the people of Ninevah, he sulked under a tree. When God asked him whether he had any right to be angry, he said, "Yes, I do well to be angry, angry enough to die." (Jon 4:9) After a great spiritual victory over the prophets of Baal, and great personal persecution at the hands of Queen Jezebel, Elijah wandered out into the wilderness and "prayed that he might die". He said, "I have had enough, LORD...Take my life; I am no better than my ancestors." After Job suffered the immense loss of his family and pretty much all his earthly comforts, he said, "Why did I not die at birth, come out from the womb and expire?" Further he says, "Why is light given to him who is in misery, and life to the bitter in soul, who long for death, but it comes not, and dig for it more than hidden treasures, who rejoice exceedingly and are glad when they find the grave?" (Job 3:11; 20-22). I say all this because many Christians so often feel alienated, or strange for claiming to have such hope in the gospel of Jesus Christ, yet feel at the same time a suicidal level of despair. Yet, I really would like you to see that many of God's servants felt this way at one time or another, whether it was from persecution, exhaustion, or the circumstances of life not going their way. As I cope with my own suicidal ideation, I feel comfort in knowing that I am in a long line of people who served God yet often did not feel the strength to find joy in my day to day life.

Now, on to your actual question. The first thing we must establish is - what sends a person to Hell? The short answer is - sin. This is normally where you might expect a Christian minister to start going off on all sorts of different behaviors. However, all I need to do is make two simple points. a) all sin, any sin, is accountable to God and is worthy of divine punishment. Rom 6:23 makes it clear that the "wages of sin is death". Death, in this context, is being contrasted with "eternal life" (Rom 6:22), so it is clear that the "death" Paul speaks of is more than physical death, but spiritual death as well. That spiritual death is eternal, conscious separation from God, or "eternal punishment" as Jesus puts it (Matt 25:46). b) every human being is a sinner. The entire argument of the book of Romans is structured in such a way as to make the point that all humanity is guilty and under the same condemnation. This is why Paul says "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Rom 3:23). Now, why am I making this point? I make this point because, in a sense, asking "will suicide send me to hell?" is sort of a moot question. Is assumes that there are categories of sin that are worse than the others. As if one sort of sin is passable but another is not. According to James, "Whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it." (Jas 2:10) So, if someone who killed themselves did wind up in hell, it would hardly be just for the one act of self-murder. It would be for that and many other countless transgressions in their lifetime. The same is true for me and all men and women who live on the earth.

So, the next question is - what ensures that a person will see Heaven? According to scripture, all mankind are sinners who are, by nature, "children of wrath" (Eph 2:3). So, any idea that we could earn it ourselves through our good behavior or moral law-keeping is out. That ship already sailed. The answer, therefore, is that rather than trying to earn it ourselves, we would cast 100% of our hope for salvation not on us, but on another. After making the point that all mankind is condemned, Paul says, " But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith." (Rom 3:21-24) Salvation comes only to those who have gotten off the merry-go-round of trying to please God with obedience and instead confess their chronic disobedience and ask for mercy and forgiveness on behalf of Jesus Christ. Christ was put forth as a "propitiation", that is, a satisfactory sacrifice. He died, and in his death, he took all the punishment that was due to you and me for our sins. This is so that God can be both "just" in the sense that he punishes sins and does not let them slide, but also the one who "justifies" or makes sinners right with himself (Rom 3:26). This is why Revelation pictures those who enter Heaven as having their names written in a great "book of life". A book that contains the names not of the perfectly moral or exceptionally obedient, but those who have believed on the sacrifice of the Son of God (Rev 20:15; Jn 3:16).

So, what does this have to do with suicide? The question - "will I go to hell if I commit suicide" implies a belief that suicide, as an act, is unforgivable. I know some Christian traditions teach that. But if the gospel is a gospel of grace, not of works, and salvation is given by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, then how could a salvation that is received by grace be lost by works? Even a work as controversial as suicide? I don't believe it can. That which is given by God as a gift, and received as a gift by faith, cannot be lost by works. Also, if I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay the penalty of all my sins - past and present - then if I died of suicide, then what sin would I be punished for? My debt was wiped clean, my sin separated as far from me as the east is from the west. Rom 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Now, there are plenty of biblical reasons NOT to commit suicide: the knowledge that God can and does turn all circumstances for our good and his glory (Rom 8:28), the fact that we are not our own as we have been bought back from death, sin, and Satan (1 Cor 6:20), the fact that our bodies are temples of the indwelling Holy Spirit (1 Cor 6:19), the fact that God is the one who has the right to number our days (Ps 139:16), and the great commission we have been given to carry his gospel to the world (Matt 28:16-20). Yet, even with these facts, there is no denying the fact that plenty of Christians, whether it be in that place of despair, or in mental anguish, or who are not in their right mind, have taken their own lives. We have to reckon with that. I think there is plenty of grace in the gospel of Jesus Christ for the weakness of the flesh. If you know that Christ is your Savior, if you have trusted in his shed blood and his resurrection from the dead and repented of your sins, then the scriptures promise you that you will be saved (Rom 10:9). Whatever decision you make, you would do well to spend time in prayer and consult the Lord and spend time in his word. As for me, I live every day knowing that Christ suffered for my sake so that I could inherit salvation. I choose every day to suffer for him and his gospel so others can know the same.

If you, or anyone else, have questions I can help with, feel free to ask. I hope this post has caused no offense, and has brought at least some measure of clarity, and perhaps comfort. Blessings to you.

Hello David, thank you for the insightful response, and welcome to SS! It was very interesting reading your points, and your biblical knowledge is great!

For the Catholic Christians, here is the Church's official teachings from the Catechism:

"2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives."

Suicide itself is considered a sin and a grave act, but it is far from unforgivable. God is loving and merciful, especially to those who are suffering. The Church (whether Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox) has come a long way since condemning the souls of the suicidal to hell, primarily due to a better understanding of mental illness. As for sin to be sin there must be the willful consent of the sinner to commit said act, and mental anguish removes the culpability to a large extent.

 

[Spitfire]

Is Hell a place of literal flames, a place to go and be tormented by fire?

Or.. Is the Hell of the Bible a symbolic representation of something else with a completely different meaning? If so, what is the actual meaning?

I am genuinely curious whether Christianity continues to teach such a thing as being tormented forever by a literal fire, in Hell? Is this still a common teaching in the church nowadays?

 

[Jumper Geo]

Well we could all be wrong about GOD, I often wondered why everyone had to suffer because Eve had a bite of an apple and then apples are tasty and good for your health.

Could we be in the Matrix,

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-are-living-in-a-simulation-the-matrix.51002/

Cheers

Geo

 

[Soul]

Suicide itself is considered a sin

Where in the bible does it say anything about God taking a dim view of suicide?

 

[Meditation guide]

He died, and in his death, he took all the punishment that was due to you and me for our sins.

I never understood how that works. The mechanics of it. One person dies. And it's some sort of magic that happens where somewhere someone says Ok thanks to that happening no one is going to hell.

Who controls the logistics of that? God? So God says to himself Ok they killed my son so because of that, no one is going to hell.

Logically you have someone who thought he was God come to earth traveling around preaching. Saying he was holy.
And then was captured and tortured and killed, so how to explain that a holy person, who was God, would let this happen to himself? Come up with an explanation that it was a sacrifice he made for the good of mankind.

The Romans did that to Jesus to stop his popularity. And did that ever backfire on them!

 

[Worndown]

! ATTENTION !

I know my question can bring arguments and fighting. If you aren't Christian who would like to discuss their Views or seek answers, then this thread isn't for you to comment. Please keep my thread a discussion thread than a arguement. I want to discuss others on this topic and not have it closed, please be respectful to one another and kind

After my failed attempt with SN, I'm gonna try again soon, but being a Christian, I have thoughts of where I'll end up. It haunts me. But the Bible doesn't give out a clear answer or does anyone have one. I don't know where I'll end up. I have points on why a Christian shouldn't end up in hell but then I have point on why they should. I'm confused and seek out others views.

what do you think? Where would you end up if you are christian and took your life.

It is probably all or nothing. I doubt there is a bouncer in Hell checking ID's.

 

[XYZ]

It is probably all or nothing. I doubt there is a bouncer in Hell checking ID's.

There is actually. His name is Saint Peter.

 

[Worndown]

Then there is that forgiveness thing. Back to the begining...

 

[XYZ]

Where in the bible does it say anything about God taking a dim view of suicide?

Nowhere as far as I remember.

But that is not surprising, seeing that most Christian beliefs and dogmas are not fully anchored in what the Bible says. They are intrepretations and decrees made by ecumenical councils or emperors who bended and shaped the biblical message to suit their purposes and their views of the world throughout the ages.

It's not nothingness as in 'an endless black void' (like in space) but a complete and utter lack of consciousness.

I also believe life ends where consciousness ends. But we could be wrong.