Children

[GreenTree]

Pretty fed up of seeing posts saying it's selfish to have children. Well when I planned mine I was content with life and happy and had no idea of the torture of mental illness too come. No one has a crystal ball and having a child is a beautiful gift. No one would do anything if they saw the future. Life is a nasty game. Love to all the parents out there who love there kids and are in unbearable mental pain.

 

[Rocinante]

Pretty fed up of seeing posts saying it's selfish to have children.

It's selfish of them to expect people to adhere to their values

 

[Suicidal Loser]

It's selfish to have children. I will hate my parents until my imminent death for bringing me into this cruel world.

 

[Aisley]

"Having a child is a beautiful gift" - yes, one you gift to yourself. I have a child. I saw it as self-serving from the beginning. How can we do anything that isn't selfish? I said that my genetic material would pass through to the next generation, and I made it reality. I feed him before all others, I love and house and teach him before all others, and however I serve him, I'm really serving myself. I accept this. I think we shouldn't rear back so violently in reaction to the word selfish. It's selfish to breathe, to eat, to sleep, to work, and to love. Accept and you will do all those things with a lighter heart.
Love to you and yours, as well...from way over here.

 

[FuneralCry]

Bringing children into this world is so selfish, as if one has awareness they can conclude that forcing life into this cruel world is truly harmful and unnecessary, the compassionate thing is to leave the nonexistent alone in peace but the problem is that people want to bring life here for their own benefit which is so cruel.

This world is filled with endless harm, risks and unlimited potential to suffer, I see existence as being a burden as one is a slave to this decaying flesh prison with no straightforward way to ctb. Antinatalism makes so much sense in such a hellish world, as creating life is creating problems that never needed to exist, where all that is inevitable as humans is suffering, loss and decay. And anyway this is a suicide forum for people to vent and people on this site really have went through some horrific things, so calling procreation "selfish" is an understatement as for how damaging such a thing truly is.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I do feel for you on this. In all honesty- I try to stay away from threads concerning suicidal parents because I do have pretty emotional feelings about losing parents- seeing as I lost my Mum when I was 3 (to natural causes) and it really affected me. Also- I am an anti- natalist myself.

That all said though- I can see it from your point of view... I don't hate my friends who have chosen to have children. I hate it that I was born but I can't hate my parents- because I believe they did it out of love- not malice.

We are all where we are in life because of all the stuff that has or hasn't happened to us so far. Who can absolutely say that- if their life had been slightly different- whether they themselves could have ended up with children?

We don't know what frame of mind people were in when they conceived. I, honestly would prefer it if people thought a lot harder about the kind of world they're bringing children into. Still- I doubt many people think their children will end up desperately unhappy. I'd like to hope the majority of people have good intentions.

It's hard to hear that a parent is considering leaving their children and CTB. Still- for the time being- they haven't- they are on this forum. It upsets me when people are so hostile towards them sometimes. We can all find ourselves in difficult situations. Sometimes- we make mistakes- if it's even fair to call creating a life a mistake. Obviously- from a personal perspective- I prefer the idea of them trying to hang on for their children- but- we ought to be offering sympathy and support- not berating them for being selfish at every turn... That's my feeling anyway and I know maybe more than most what it's like to grow up without a parent.

 

[Pluto]

Love to all the parents out there who love there kids and are in unbearable mental pain.

I've tried to argue this in the past. This is a purportedly safe space for suffering people of most demographics, but parents are viewed as fair game for attack. It's a reflection of some less mature attitudes here. The logic goes: my own parents caused untold suffering, therefore all parents are bad. Or better yet: my life situation is bad therefore all life is bad.

I have a sister who held staunch antinatalist values in her youth, though within a decade or two, even she had a kid. Some people view these events as cause for celebration, but I remember feeling sickened when I first heard the news. We have so much generational trauma and my last remaining hope would be that it would die with us.

Clearly, perspective on these issues can broaden and shift with time. Very few people I knew when young did not end up parents; I am one of very few. Ironically, I often feel stigmatized by peers for it. It feels like a failure, even though at many ethical levels (ecology, animal rights, generational trauma, etc.) I could defend myself. Even so, I'm uncomfortably aware that it could have turned out differently had I not ended up a reject of society. What remains is an emotionally-charged mess.

Many of us, of all ages, can confidently say that our own parents were ill-qualified to the task. It can be seen as a woeful tragedy that they procreated anyway, based on some sort of Dunning-Kruger overestimation of their abilities. I view anger at one's own abusive parents as worthy of validation, and is an issue I am still grappling to this day even as an older person.

However, it takes a shift of maturity to realise that life can change for anyone in very unexpected ways. One's social network can change to one that normalises parenthood. Biological urges within the body, as well as cruder psychological desires for purpose, love or companionship, can be overwhelming. The very notion of sexuality and romance seems engineered as an irresistible trap for procreation.

In summary, my vote goes to reducing the sense of judgement and toning down the abuse of fellow forum members who are suffering.

 

[EmmaD]

I've tried to argue this in the past. This is a purportedly safe space for suffering people of most demographics, but parents are viewed as fair game for attack. It's a reflection of some less mature attitudes here. The logic goes: my own parents caused untold suffering, therefore all parents are bad. Or better yet: my life situation is bad therefore all life is bad

Perfectly put..

 

[Challu]

I don't get the "procreation is evil" stigma on this site. I understand being upset about the poor quality and bad conditions we've faced in life during childhood and into adulthood.
But to call it, "selfish" just seems ridiculous to me. If someone had the chance to be born into a loving family, even if that family worsens over time, it would be worth it, just to give them life. And alternatively, if someone is born into a abusive family, that was just their misfortune. It's not fair, but its not as if GOD or the UNIVERSE wanted to condemn a newborn baby to a shitty life -- its the people that choose to have children. So, if you're disgusted by the fact people choose to have sex with the intention to raise a child.. you should identify that the characteristics which make an abusive, neglectful person have always been within YOUR own capacity to do as well, because we all have behaved in such manners during our life.

GOD and the UNIVERSE didnt make the world shitty, Human beings did. And all this discussion does is shit on human beings while ignoring the obvious fact that we are our own problem. But we dont solve this by wishing for the end of all human life, we solve it by changing who we are.

every other contention/question requires spiritual understanding.

 

[unnormal9]

If someone had the chance to be born into a loving rich family

True.

 

[rationaltake]

I've tried to argue this in the past. This is a purportedly safe space for suffering people of most demographics, but parents are viewed as fair game for attack. It's a reflection of some less mature attitudes here. The logic goes: my own parents caused untold suffering, therefore all parents are bad. Or better yet: my life situation is bad therefore all life is bad.

In summary, my vote goes to reducing the sense of judgement and toning down the abuse of fellow forum members who are suffering.

I'm uplifted by your compassionate and thoughtful response.

As you wisely concluded on another thread:

When all is said and done, the simple solution is to make the effort to view fellow forum members as human first, and objects of politics second. If the temptation is to respond with political commentary when an individual is in distress, that's a good sign that it's time to stop.

Thank you.

 

[Rational man]

You sound like a really loving mum and of course, no one knows how the future works out. My parent's brought me into this world and used me as an emotional punchbag. They had responsibility for me but neglected me They couldn't love me because they didnt love themselves or each other. Shame on them and all other dysfunction ridden parents.

 

[peaceindeath]

Pretty fed up of seeing posts saying it's selfish to have children. Well when I planned mine I was content with life and happy and had no idea of the torture of mental illness too come. No one has a crystal ball and having a child is a beautiful gift. No one would do anything if they saw the future. Life is a nasty game. Love to all the parents out there who love there kids and are in unbearable mental pain.

I only had children because of my husband. He is a lovely person who has so much passion for children. And I was happy with life back then. I don't regret. Because one day I'm gone, my husband won't be lonely. He is the love of my life

 

[AerialBoundaries]

You obviously can't know what the future holds, but I wish I was never born, in all honesty. I wasn't planned, even called a mistake by my drunken folks one time. I grew up in abject poverty, despite my Dad having a good job. He drank and gambled all the money away. My sister, on the other hand, had a much better upbringing because my folks separated when she was 3. We still grew up in poverty, but she never endured the abuse that I did.

I just hope that you're a good parent to your child(ren). If the unthinkable happens, they'll remember the good in you.

 

[Rational man]

You obviously can't know what the future holds, but I wish I was never born, in all honesty. I wasn't planned, even called a mistake by my drunken folks one time. I grew up in abject poverty, despite my Dad having a good job. He drank and gambled all the money away. My sister, on the other hand, had a much better upbringing because my folks separated when she was 3. We still grew up in poverty, but she never endured the abuse that I did.

I just hope that you're a good parent to your child(ren). If the unthinkable happens, they'll remember the good in you.

Such a sad story. So sorry to hear this pain you have.

 

[Night45]

I've tried to argue this in the past. This is a purportedly safe space for suffering people of most demographics, but parents are viewed as fair game for attack. It's a reflection of some less mature attitudes here. The logic goes: my own parents caused untold suffering, therefore all parents are bad. Or better yet: my life situation is bad therefore all life is bad.

I have a sister who held staunch antinatalist values in her youth, though within a decade or two, even she had a kid. Some people view these events as cause for celebration, but I remember feeling sickened when I first heard the news. We have so much generational trauma and my last remaining hope would be that it would die with us.

Clearly, perspective on these issues can broaden and shift with time. Very few people I knew when young did not end up parents; I am one of very few. Ironically, I often feel stigmatized by peers for it. It feels like a failure, even though at many ethical levels (ecology, animal rights, generational trauma, etc.) I could defend myself. Even so, I'm uncomfortably aware that it could have turned out differently had I not ended up a reject of society. What remains is an emotionally-charged mess.

Many of us, of all ages, can confidently say that our own parents were ill-qualified to the task. It can be seen as a woeful tragedy that they procreated anyway, based on some sort of Dunning-Kruger overestimation of their abilities. I view anger at one's own abusive parents as worthy of validation, and is an issue I am still grappling to this day even as an older person.

However, it takes a shift of maturity to realise that life can change for anyone in very unexpected ways. One's social network can change to one that normalises parenthood. Biological urges within the body, as well as cruder psychological desires for purpose, love or companionship, can be overwhelming. The very notion of sexuality and romance seems engineered as an irresistible trap for procreation.

In summary, my vote goes to reducing the sense of judgement and toning down the abuse of fellow forum members who are suffering.

Thank you for writing this, a lot of people just don't get it.

You were lucky to have this awareness whilst young and to be able to choose to not have children and to try to live a life that reflects those principles.

Imagine the horror and suffering of someone robbed of that true choice because of abuse who over time realised they were abused and starts to undo their brainwashing and see the real horror of the world but they already 'chose' to have children before this awakening. Then they decide that they will do everything in their power to save their children from the same abuse so they separate themselves from all the toxic people they know but life proves too hard like that and trusting new people is so scary now. After a while trying to break that cycle of abuse and suffering can feel like just way too much. Especially if you're doing it alone which is also likely if you were abused as a child so you went on to gravitate towards abusive partners.

None of us has the answers about how to make the world more tolerable for ourselves but parents are expected to have it for themselves and their children too?! Do you know how painful it is to feel that any and all effort can't save your children anyway when you can barely manage the basics from the sheer mental drain of trying to function? Trying to be something to someone when no one was that to you and you're making it up as best as you can as you go along because you literally have never seen genuine love before so you have no idea if you're getting it right or not and there are hardly any examples in the world to try to emulate?

 

[agonysgrin]

I feel horrible I brought my kids in this madness. But I won't be a burden to them either so I hope to go soon

 

[sulli]

just don't worry about what random suicidal people on the internet think of you. it's a lot more fun here when you do that

 

[blue_muse]

How can anyone as rationally minded as the OP, expect to have a crystal ball and foresee the unforeseen.

 

[leftdreaming]

I don't wish to be on this earth, but I don't blame my parents for having me. I was my own undoing, not them. I am the selfish one in this relationship.

 

[Night45]

I feel horrible I brought my kids in this madness. But I won't be a burden to them either so I hope to go soon

I get the first part of this, life does seem so crazy and cruel. :-(

 

[Nights]

Why bring a child into life if he would definitely suffer, in my humble opinion bringing children to this world is a bad idea, if you want sex then do it using masks, if you want to take care of a baby then you can just adopt someone, it's no big deal, there will be no advantage in bringing a child into this world