Discussion Can a person be a 'victim' of suicide?

[Forever Sleep]

I have seen another thread on this but I hope this one is different enough... I also wanted to do a poll to see how many people relate to the term 'suicide victim'... or not.

I've always found the expression: 'victim of suicide' really odd. You can be a victim of war, a victim of murder, even a victim of illness but surely- suicide is a choice.

I suppose you could say people are victims of mental illness which can result in suicidal ideation. Plus- no one exactly wants to feel suicidal. I suppose people who are overcome by some sort of mania and CTB impulsively could be described to be a victim of their own thoughts. Anyone who feels these thoughts are intrusive could also be described to be a victim of them. I suspect the 'normies' would extend this to say ALL suicide 'victims' were prone to unwelcome irrational, mentally ill thoughts.

I think a lot of people here at least feel like their suicide is a rational thought though. It isn't suicide that people are a victim of- it's their life circumstances. (Whatever brought them to that conclusion that life isn't worth living.)

Being a 'victim' isn't something you usually choose. Suicide IS a choice. It's being born and likely a lot of the nasty crap that happened in our lives that we didn't choose! Many people here see CTB as their solution. Their way out of all this life shit. You wouldn't say that a person who was crippled was a 'victim' of their wheelchair.

It irritates me because it removes responsibilty from the person who chose to take their own life. I can understand that perhaps it is a coping mechanism for loved ones left behind- that the person didn't actually choose to leave them with all this grief. That they just became overwhelmed with these 'irrational' thoughts and fell 'victim' to them. It still annoys me though.

I think there are usually reasons as to why someone takes their own life. Put simply- usually I imagine it's some sort of obstacle that makes life unbearable for them, that they don't feel they have the resources to overcome. That isn't mental illness- that's a rational appraisal of your situation.

Of course- the argument will be that you are depressed- so your view of the world and your ability to cope in it has become tainted and warped. I can't totally disagree with that. Still- that person may have already tried various treatments to 'get better'- which have all failed. Or- they may just not be willing to put themselves through all that to begin with. Can that person really not make a rational appraisal of their situation?

How do you feel about this? Do you feel like a 'victim' to your suicidal ideation? So- if you succumbed one day- would it be accurate to say you had been a 'victim of suicide'? Or- do you dislike that term? Do you feel like suicide would be a choice you made?

 

[ksp]

i always interpret 'victim of suicide' as: immediate family and close friends (not the person that committed suicide)

i associate the word 'victim' to the fact that unintended people are forced to deal with death, when they don't want to, or are not prepared

i think you are trying to make a connection between suicidal, and also being a victim somehow, but i don't really see a connection: i want to die, and i am not a victim (sorry if i'm misinterpreted the question)

 

[Simurgh]

I guess you could interpret it as "Victim of extenuating circumstances leading up to suicide, thus leaving it the most reasonable course of action" or "Victim of the thing/s that made it unbearable to continue."

There are also many people, especially those who have easy access to firearms, that do commit impulsively, with no prior history of mental illness. I would absolutely consider them "Victims of Suicide" as they have not thought it through, and they did likely have a life that's worth living.

 

[MideonNViscera]

Suicides are certainly victims of something, but not suicide unless it was an accident, in which case it's not suicide, it's an accidental death.

 

[Rainy_days]

I can understand that perhaps it is a coping mechanism for loved ones left behind- that the person didn't actually choose to leave them with all this grief. That they just became overwhelmed with these 'irrational' thoughts and fell 'victim' to them. It still annoys me though.

Yeah I think that is probably it. Even people unrelated to the "victim" would rather not think the person was in so much pain that could not be alleviated. Perhaps it is belittling to the one who died but it's not necessarily from a mean or ungenerous impulse I don't think.

 

[Unending]

If victim was going to be a part of the title for those who kill themselves, I feel that "Victim of an overwhelmingly painful life," or something like that would be more fitting in the majority of cases.

Although, even if that is the more fitting title, it does seem the most appropriate to just not call people who ctb victims unless there is a specific reason why they would've wanted it.

 

[spinningship]

It seems to be taken as axiomatic almost by society that suicide implies you are mentally ill. Society doesn't like to grant autonomy to those they consider mentally ill.

 

[conflagration]

I will commit suicide only if my suffering becomes unbearable. In this matter I don't see suicide as being different from dying of cancer.
So I guess I will be a victim.

 

[FuneralCry]

No, I think that is quite a ridiculous statement, it's like the type of thing that a pro lifer would come out with who sees suicide as being worse than experiencing endless suffering and torture. The fact is, that death is the most normal thing ever and all that suicide is, is a refusal to delay our inevitable fate.
There is nothing bad about being dead, to say such a thing is irrational and anyway suicide solves all of life's problems. Suicide is a relief, a way to free ourselves, if someone chooses to ctb they are doing what I would see as being a kind thing to themselves as they are preventing unnecessary suffering. My thoughts of suicide are simply the natural response to existing in this world and suicide is the best choice possible for me. If I was to ctb now in no way would I be a 'victim' of anything.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Do they mean that you are your own victim? In a suicide, the perpetrator is also the victim.

I feel like I'm being pushed towards suicide by circumstances, yet I still feel like it will be my own choice in the end.

 

[Obliviate]

I see suicide as more of a murder from society. Society and it's systems treated you so badly you had to go kill yourself to get away from their monstrosity. In my book, its murder from the people who caused it.

 

[LastFlowers]

Glad you brought up the problematic phrasing.
If anyone were to say I was a "victim of suicide" or a "victim of mental illness", they would be insultingly and devastatingly incorrect.

I am a victim of my circumstances, the way people have and continue to treat me, the lack of viable solutions for my predicament, the lack of acknowledgment for why people like myself suffer, the censorship of discussion regarding these topics, the state of the world and how in some way too many or all people refuse to change or stop contributing to the damage and the disparities…so on and so forth.
Pretty much just listing branches of core issue(s) that cannot be resolved or undone.

I am not mentally ill, I have mental distress and certain coping mechanisms have come about from my situation.
I am not a victim of suicide, as suicide is simply expedited death for the sake of ending the suffering that is already too much to bear, and by all odds and accounts..has and will continue to get worse, with no reasonable balance or other benefits of sticking around.

I think to label me in the way that is commonly done leads to erasure of why I will do what I must, and it strips me of perhaps the last and only form of significant bodily autonomy and control I will ever have.
It is patronizing, infantilizing…it misinterprets and sends the wrong message about..well..my entire fucking existence.

I see suicide as more of a murder from society. Society and it's systems treated you so badly you had to go kill yourself to get away from their monstrosity. In my book, its murder from the people who caused it.

Agreed.

i always interpret 'victim of suicide' as: immediate family and close friends (not the person that committed suicide)

i associate the word 'victim' to the fact that unintended people are forced to deal with death, when they don't want to, or are not prepared

i think you are trying to make a connection between suicidal, and also being a victim somehow, but i don't really see a connection: i want to die, and i am not a victim (sorry if i'm misinterpreted the question)

I've noticed a lot of people use the phrase "victim of suicide" to describe those who died that way.
Then again you may be right that some people in the aftermath also refer to themselves that way.

Oddly enough it's the same with "survivor of suicide".
I've seen it used for those who attempted and lived.
I have also seen it used for those who "survived" being left behind by someone who took their life.

Then there is the issue of every person who commits suicide being labeled "mentally ill" or unwell by default, whether the deceased asserted that claim/knowledge or not.
Which I happen to think is reprehensible.
One way or another, the living find a way to make sure that any other circumstances that led to the decision are trivialized or obfuscated, unless they fit the current narrative of mental health and suicide prevention.

 

[sadstuffie]

i would say im a victim because ive always felt like im being forced to feel this way instead of it being my own choice to end my life.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Elements of both. Motivated by involuntary circumstances but still a deliberate choice.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

We can only be a victim of circumstances that lead to suicide, and suicide is the ultimate solution of finality to those problems.